Obli's Observations

[Obliviax]

Well, my prognostications were almost 100% dead on. As such, I am not sure what all the doom and gloom is about. We had two kids in the backfield that hadn't run the ball in a competitive football game at the collegiate lever. Probably more importantly, didn't have to pass block at the HS or collegiate level. We had several defenders held out. And, all of our linebackers had never played against a triple option offense. And, to top it off, it was a rain with wind gusts up to 25 mph.

This was the "perfect storm" for a bad game.

With that, here are my observations:

• CJF played a "JoePa-esque" game. In the bad weather, with very young ball handlers, he played to NOT turn the ball over and let the defense win the game. IMHO, very smart.
• I never got the feeling we were in trouble...ever. This Army team was scrappy but I felt like it was a matter of PSU playing their best players and coming together.
• Receivers were open down the field all day long. (perhaps for the first time) But PSU didn't go that route, probably due to the possibility of turnovers. When we did, two plays and a TD. (to the birthday boy, as I predicted).
• Linebackers, young and inexperienced, especially against the triple option, were out of position all day long. On top of that, inexperience at the S position ended up with the same result. The D-line ended up with little or no support because the LB's and S were so focused on stopping the outside game. Finally, PSU played our starting line very little. For whatever reason, we rotated the D-line constantly. At one point, I noticed all four were non-starters and one guy who made a tackle, I had never seen play. (White or Brown, can't remember which).
• I feel like the RB's played better than I thought. They were in position, didn't make any bad mistakes (missed blocks, fumbles). They were also a little more physical than they showed against SDSU. (who beat Fresno 21-7).
• The RB screen looks like it's here to stay. Again, effective in its usage this week and played very well. Sometimes you get a play, a timing play between RB and OL, that works. This does.
• Did we run one jet sweep? I believe we did, once to Polk for 14 yards. I didn't even see it faked much, and we faked it a ton in previous games.
• Nice to see Hack run the ball a little. He can run well and is quite a load. I'd like to see him run the ball once or twice on the read-option, if for no other reason to keep the D honest.
• Gesicki is getting his TE legs under him. I think he played much better and, perhaps, just needs some confidence. He didn't play TE in high school so it may still be a little new to him.
• Godwin is now our "go to" guy, not sure why. He's got all of the tools but doen't look like anything special. What he does do is come down with the ball. Many of his catches this year have been "jump balls". The one Saturday was a finger tip catch at full speed (then he came down on the ball and lost his breath).
• When Mangiro went down, PSU crawled back further into our shell. Wendy played well in his absence, I thought, but the C is an important position in calling out defenses. Perhaps the team was afraid of a missed call, an uncovered blitz, and a turnover. Mangiro had a lower body injury, on TV, it looked like an ankle (anybody see this at the game?). The announcers said nothing of the injury after the commercial and, of course, CJF isn't saying.
• By game end, these guys weren't playing: Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro + Breneman.
• Looks like Gulia got his bell rung, at the minimum. Hope he's OK. He didn't punt well. Ok, that's being kind. His punting was really bad, with one punt being horrible. Lets hope it was the weather. By the way, we played Robby Liebel as holder on place kicks.
• Klein played, which was great to see.
• The big toe is getting national love....and why not, kid has been automatic. I am a little concerned about the holder if Gulia has a concussion and cannot play against Indy.
• Honestly, it didn't look like anyone wanted to be there. The players, the fans, the students...perhaps the most lackluster game I can recall. PSU just wanted to survive, get out of the cold and move on. And to do that with minimum effort and risk to injury and turnovers.

Speaking of Indiana, they played their guts out against tOSU. tOSU didn't play well and sustained several key injuries. If it weren't for several key long runs buy EZ Elliot, Indy would have won that game. I am hopeful that CJF phoned this game in to prepare for the B1G schedule. Will Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro play? Who knows? CJF's lack of transparency here is just a little off putting.

So I am going to give Donovan and CJF a little bit of a pass here. While we would have liked to see more creativity, they played it very, very conservatively given the circumstances. I have reserved judgement on Donovan since Temple (which was as poorly coached as I have ever seen on O). If this persists against Indy, I won't be as patient.

Speaking of CJF, I loved his rant during the press conference. I suspect this was a deliberate act and calculated. But its a card you can only pull once. What is does is give CJF the ability to say "we are family, have each-other's backs, us against the world (well, press), etc.". I hope this wasn't a "I am going to protect my buddy, Donovan, no matter what..." kind of speech. Its time to show up, no more excuses. (assuming we get back starters; having said that, I still don't expect Nelson or Lynch).

Indy is the lynchpin game for this team, and it has set up that way since the final schedule was releases (and exacerbated by the loss to Temple). Indy is a solid, but not great, team. They've got a chance to have a great season, for them, and know it. A PSU win will result in some momentum and a winning record/bowl. A loss could end up with us winning only one other game. The only game that we will be favored in will be MD. Big game...lets hope these guys play, its good weather (for a change) and everyone has high energy.

 

[Woodpecker]

one guy who made a tackle, I had never seen play. (White or Brown, can't remember which).

Either way, he was pretty green.

 

[jj410]

Well, my prognostications were almost 100% dead on. As such, I am not sure what all the doom and gloom is about. We had two kids in the backfield that hadn't run the ball in a competitive football game at the collegiate lever. Probably more importantly, didn't have to pass block at the HS or collegiate level. We had several defenders held out. And, all of our linebackers had never played against a triple option offense. And, to top it off, it was a rain with wind gusts up to 25 mph.

This was the "perfect storm" for a bad game.

With that, here are my observations:

• CJF played a "JoePa-esque" game. In the bad weather, with very young ball handlers, he played to NOT turn the ball over and let the defense win the game. IMHO, very smart.
• I never got the feeling we were in trouble...ever. This Army team was scrappy but I felt like it was a matter of PSU playing their best players and coming together.
• Receivers were open down the field all day long. (perhaps for the first time) But PSU didn't go that route, probably due to the possibility of turnovers. When we did, two plays and a TD. (to the birthday boy, as I predicted).
• Linebackers, young and inexperienced, especially against the triple option, were out of position all day long. On top of that, inexperience at the S position ended up with the same result. The D-line ended up with little or no support because the LB's and S were so focused on stopping the outside game. Finally, PSU played our starting line very little. For whatever reason, we rotated the D-line constantly. At one point, I noticed all four were non-starters and one guy who made a tackle, I had never seen play. (White or Brown, can't remember which).
• I feel like the RB's played better than I thought. They were in position, didn't make any bad mistakes (missed blocks, fumbles). They were also a little more physical than they showed against SDSU. (who beat Fresno 21-7).
• The RB screen looks like it's here to stay. Again, effective in its usage this week and played very well. Sometimes you get a play, a timing play between RB and OL, that works. This does.
• Did we run one jet sweep? I believe we did, once to Polk for 14 yards. I didn't even see it faked much, and we faked it a ton in previous games.
• Nice to see Hack run the ball a little. He can run well and is quite a load. I'd like to see him run the ball once or twice on the read-option, if for no other reason to keep the D honest.
• Gesicki is getting his TE legs under him. I think he played much better and, perhaps, just needs some confidence. He didn't play TE in high school so it may still be a little new to him.
• Godwin is now our "go to" guy, not sure why. He's got all of the tools but doen't look like anything special. What he does do is come down with the ball. Many of his catches this year have been "jump balls". The one Saturday was a finger tip catch at full speed (then he came down on the ball and lost his breath).
• When Mangiro went down, PSU crawled back further into our shell. Wendy played well in his absence, I thought, but the C is an important position in calling out defenses. Perhaps the team was afraid of a missed call, an uncovered blitz, and a turnover. Mangiro had a lower body injury, on TV, it looked like an ankle (anybody see this at the game?). The announcers said nothing of the injury after the commercial and, of course, CJF isn't saying.
• By game end, these guys weren't playing: Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro + Breneman.
• Looks like Gulia got his bell rung, at the minimum. Hope he's OK. He didn't punt well. Ok, that's being kind. His punting was really bad, with one punt being horrible. Lets hope it was the weather. By the way, we played Robby Liebel as holder on place kicks.
• Klein played, which was great to see.
• The big toe is getting national love....and why not, kid has been automatic. I am a little concerned about the holder if Gulia has a concussion and cannot play against Indy.
• Honestly, it didn't look like anyone wanted to be there. The players, the fans, the students...perhaps the most lackluster game I can recall. PSU just wanted to survive, get out of the cold and move on. And to do that with minimum effort and risk to injury and turnovers.

Speaking of Indiana, they played their guts out against tOSU. tOSU didn't play well and sustained several key injuries. If it weren't for several key long runs buy EZ Elliot, Indy would have won that game. I am hopeful that CJF phoned this game in to prepare for the B1G schedule. Will Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro play? Who knows? CJF's lack of transparency here is just a little off putting.

So I am going to give Donovan and CJF a little bit of a pass here. While we would have liked to see more creativity, they played it very, very conservatively given the circumstances. I have reserved judgement on Donovan since Temple (which was as poorly coached as I have ever seen on O). If this persists against Indy, I won't be as patient.

Speaking of CJF, I loved his rant during the press conference. I suspect this was a deliberate act and calculated. But its a card you can only pull once. What is does is give CJF the ability to say "we are family, have each-other's backs, us against the world (well, press), etc.". I hope this wasn't a "I am going to protect my buddy, Donovan, no matter what..." kind of speech. Its time to show up, no more excuses. (assuming we get back starters; having said that, I still don't expect Nelson or Lynch).

Indy is the lynchpin game for this team, and it has set up that way since the final schedule was releases (and exacerbated by the loss to Temple). Indy is a solid, but not great, team. They've got a chance to have a great season, for them, and know it. A PSU win will result in some momentum and a winning record/bowl. A loss could end up with us winning only one other game. The only game that we will be favored in will be MD. Big game...lets hope these guys play, its good weather (for a change) and everyone has high energy.

Mostly ridiculous comments.
We will be underdogs in all games but MD? Have you seen the Indy spread?
We were never in trouble? Actually, PSU was about one play from a loss.
No one wanted to be there? Well, Army didn't look that way.
You would have liked more creativity? No kidding.
Play conservatively against a very bad team? Great idea.
RBs played well? This was Army, for pete's sake.
Receivers were open but PSU didn't throw to them for fear of turnovers? Yeah, that makes sense, nothing like a wide open receiver for interceptions.
CJF's rant was staged? I doubt it, but it was diversionary, blaming dissatisfaction on people who were concerned with the point spread, i.e., gamblers rather than real fans who don't see much improvement week to week.

 

[WDLion]

Well, my prognostications were almost 100% dead on. As such, I am not sure what all the doom and gloom is about. We had two kids in the backfield that hadn't run the ball in a competitive football game at the collegiate lever. Probably more importantly, didn't have to pass block at the HS or collegiate level. We had several defenders held out. And, all of our linebackers had never played against a triple option offense. And, to top it off, it was a rain with wind gusts up to 25 mph.

This was the "perfect storm" for a bad game.

With that, here are my observations:

• CJF played a "JoePa-esque" game. In the bad weather, with very young ball handlers, he played to NOT turn the ball over and let the defense win the game. IMHO, very smart.
• I never got the feeling we were in trouble...ever. This Army team was scrappy but I felt like it was a matter of PSU playing their best players and coming together.
• Receivers were open down the field all day long. (perhaps for the first time) But PSU didn't go that route, probably due to the possibility of turnovers. When we did, two plays and a TD. (to the birthday boy, as I predicted).
• Linebackers, young and inexperienced, especially against the triple option, were out of position all day long. On top of that, inexperience at the S position ended up with the same result. The D-line ended up with little or no support because the LB's and S were so focused on stopping the outside game. Finally, PSU played our starting line very little. For whatever reason, we rotated the D-line constantly. At one point, I noticed all four were non-starters and one guy who made a tackle, I had never seen play. (White or Brown, can't remember which).
• I feel like the RB's played better than I thought. They were in position, didn't make any bad mistakes (missed blocks, fumbles). They were also a little more physical than they showed against SDSU. (who beat Fresno 21-7).
• The RB screen looks like it's here to stay. Again, effective in its usage this week and played very well. Sometimes you get a play, a timing play between RB and OL, that works. This does.
• Did we run one jet sweep? I believe we did, once to Polk for 14 yards. I didn't even see it faked much, and we faked it a ton in previous games.
• Nice to see Hack run the ball a little. He can run well and is quite a load. I'd like to see him run the ball once or twice on the read-option, if for no other reason to keep the D honest.
• Gesicki is getting his TE legs under him. I think he played much better and, perhaps, just needs some confidence. He didn't play TE in high school so it may still be a little new to him.
• Godwin is now our "go to" guy, not sure why. He's got all of the tools but doen't look like anything special. What he does do is come down with the ball. Many of his catches this year have been "jump balls". The one Saturday was a finger tip catch at full speed (then he came down on the ball and lost his breath).
• When Mangiro went down, PSU crawled back further into our shell. Wendy played well in his absence, I thought, but the C is an important position in calling out defenses. Perhaps the team was afraid of a missed call, an uncovered blitz, and a turnover. Mangiro had a lower body injury, on TV, it looked like an ankle (anybody see this at the game?). The announcers said nothing of the injury after the commercial and, of course, CJF isn't saying.
• By game end, these guys weren't playing: Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro + Breneman.
• Looks like Gulia got his bell rung, at the minimum. Hope he's OK. He didn't punt well. Ok, that's being kind. His punting was really bad, with one punt being horrible. Lets hope it was the weather. By the way, we played Robby Liebel as holder on place kicks.
• Klein played, which was great to see.
• The big toe is getting national love....and why not, kid has been automatic. I am a little concerned about the holder if Gulia has a concussion and cannot play against Indy.
• Honestly, it didn't look like anyone wanted to be there. The players, the fans, the students...perhaps the most lackluster game I can recall. PSU just wanted to survive, get out of the cold and move on. And to do that with minimum effort and risk to injury and turnovers.

Speaking of Indiana, they played their guts out against tOSU. tOSU didn't play well and sustained several key injuries. If it weren't for several key long runs buy EZ Elliot, Indy would have won that game. I am hopeful that CJF phoned this game in to prepare for the B1G schedule. Will Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro play? Who knows? CJF's lack of transparency here is just a little off putting.

So I am going to give Donovan and CJF a little bit of a pass here. While we would have liked to see more creativity, they played it very, very conservatively given the circumstances. I have reserved judgement on Donovan since Temple (which was as poorly coached as I have ever seen on O). If this persists against Indy, I won't be as patient.

Speaking of CJF, I loved his rant during the press conference. I suspect this was a deliberate act and calculated. But its a card you can only pull once. What is does is give CJF the ability to say "we are family, have each-other's backs, us against the world (well, press), etc.". I hope this wasn't a "I am going to protect my buddy, Donovan, no matter what..." kind of speech. Its time to show up, no more excuses. (assuming we get back starters; having said that, I still don't expect Nelson or Lynch).

Indy is the lynchpin game for this team, and it has set up that way since the final schedule was releases (and exacerbated by the loss to Temple). Indy is a solid, but not great, team. They've got a chance to have a great season, for them, and know it. A PSU win will result in some momentum and a winning record/bowl. A loss could end up with us winning only one other game. The only game that we will be favored in will be MD. Big game...lets hope these guys play, its good weather (for a change) and everyone has high energy.

I'm starting to wonder which game i was at.
There was a light drizzle for about 10 minutes of the game. Receivers were not open downfield all day.
Army fumbled five times, three we recovered and two they recovered for big losses that caused them to punt. Without the fumbles there's a good chance Army wins the game.

 

[psuro]

Yes it was a "JoePa-esque" type of game- Joe always played to the level of his competition (or so we all thought) and I think CJF did the same.

Both of the Army TDs were scored against the second team DL. They were not getting pressure the same way as the 1st teamers were.

Kudos to Von Walker for his play as a starting LB.

Army, like so many of PSU's opponents this year (to say - all of them), made adjustments in the second half. PSU did not. Again.

I have no idea what game Obli was watching, but I stayed for the whole game, and with the exception of Godwin, none of the other receivers were doing anything to get open. The TEs were open in the middle, but Hack never seemed to see them. I would venture to say that the WRs were "lazy" in their routes.

I honestly expected the OL to handle the Army DLine. They did not.

I still believe that PSU is better served to have Wilkerson in a fullback role (which he has done) to add pass protection for Hack. He has the size and should have the experience for it.

The triple option is fun to watch - as long as it's not going against your favorite team. Army did a great job of getting PSU defense to be aware of the end around, and protect the side of the line, which left the middle wide open #34 and #40 for Army both got big chunks of yardage with what amounted to nothing more than fullback dives.

I was nervous to the end. But, getting back to my first point (and Obli's), the PSU defense rose to the occasion when they absolutely needed to. Cabinda had a hell of a game.

I agree that it was nice to see Ben Klein out there.

I also don't understand the constant shuffling of the DL. It's not August or early September, so it's not like these kids should be getting winded. I also agree with someone else that rotations should not have been "en masse".

I know the father of a DLine starter and was told that this game, against Army, is the toughest for them to prepare for. Not only because Army is one of the few teams that play the triple option, but most kids that PSU recruits and uses on Scout Teams don't know it either.

All in all - it's a win, and to the best of my knowledge, no one got severely hurt, except for the Army kid taken out on the cart. Hope he is OK. Crowd gave him a nice round of applause when he was taken off the field.

I liked CJF's post game presser also. Watched BTN, and DiNardo mentioned - "every coach has to explain away these types of games - and this is how Franklin did it." I will actually agree with DiNardo on this.

 

[Obliviax]

I'm starting to wonder which game i was at.
There was a light drizzle for about 10 minutes of the game. Receivers were not open downfield all day.
Army fumbled five times, three we recovered and two they recovered for big losses that caused them to punt. Without the fumbles there's a good chance Army wins the game.

Fair enough...my comments:

Wasn't just the rain, plus the field was wet. Plus it was windy. I could see the coach's breath on the sidelines, while it wasn't freezing, it was much colder than the teams were used to playing in. Regardless, awful conditions for football either way.

PSU caused most of Army's fumbles....if not, you have to go back to their offense being high turnover risk an/or the conditions (which you are saying wasn't that bad).

Coaching is situational. PSU had a lead, and PSU could move the ball when they needed to. I just never felt threatened by Army. Coaches played a very, VERY conservative offense. We ran the ball 34 times, threw it 19. Contrast that to SDSU where we threw 35 times and ran 34. (with a healthy Barkley in the first half). CJF put the first team D-line in for the critical drive by Army, and he didn't play many of the starters in the second half.

I just feel like they needed to, or wanted to, play our A game.

 

[Obliviax]

Yes it was a "JoePa-esque" type of game- Joe always played to the level of his competition (or so we all thought) and I think CJF did the same.

Both of the Army TDs were scored against the second team DL. They were not getting pressure the same way as the 1st teamers were.

Kudos to Von Walker for his play as a starting LB.

Army, like so many of PSU's opponents this year (to say - all of them), made adjustments in the second half. PSU did not. Again.

I have no idea what game Obli was watching, but I stayed for the whole game, and with the exception of Godwin, none of the other receivers were doing anything to get open. The TEs were open in the middle, but Hack never seemed to see them. I would venture to say that the WRs were "lazy" in their routes.

I honestly expected the OL to handle the Army DLine. They did not.

I still believe that PSU is better served to have Wilkerson in a fullback role (which he has done) to add pass protection for Hack. He has the size and should have the experience for it.

The triple option is fun to watch - as long as it's not going against your favorite team. Army did a great job of getting PSU defense to be aware of the end around, and protect the side of the line, which left the middle wide open #34 and #40 for Army both got big chunks of yardage with what amounted to nothing more than fullback dives.

I was nervous to the end. But, getting back to my first point (and Obli's), the PSU defense rose to the occasion when they absolutely needed to. Cabinda had a hell of a game.

I agree that it was nice to see Ben Klein out there.

I also don't understand the constant shuffling of the DL. It's not August or early September, so it's not like these kids should be getting winded. I also agree with someone else that rotations should not have been "en masse".

I know the father of a DLine starter and was told that this game, against Army, is the toughest for them to prepare for. Not only because Army is one of the few teams that play the triple option, but most kids that PSU recruits and uses on Scout Teams don't know it either.

All in all - it's a win, and to the best of my knowledge, no one got severely hurt, except for the Army kid taken out on the cart. Hope he is OK. Crowd gave him a nice round of applause when he was taken off the field.

I liked CJF's post game presser also. Watched BTN, and DiNardo mentioned - "every coach has to explain away these types of games - and this is how Franklin did it." I will actually agree with DiNardo on this.

Good points....I forgot to mention that i thought Army did a great job of mixing it up and having a very creative offense. our right defensive side was getting used pretty good. One of the plays that hurt was when they faked to the FB, and then the QB would pull the ball out...the D would flow to the corner thinking they'd option the DE. But, the QB followed the Fullback up the gut....that really hurt us, its a nice play. Plus, their 5-6, 220lb fullback is quite a load. its hard to tell when he is vertical or horizontal.

On the WR's, totally agree. But I think they knew the ball wasn't coming out to them. (edit: and I didn't say WR's, I said receivers, which include RB's and TE's). The plays were designed to go short, and they kind of phoned it in. Not that this is unusual, its been that way all year. hard to believe with the young recruits we have at WR. Where are Hamilton and Lewis????

 

[Woodpecker]

Cabinda had a hell of a game.

Except for the first big-gainer by the Army FB. Cabinda basically took himself out of that play by racing to the outside.

it was nice to see Ben Klein out there

Didn't Kline get burned on the long run by the QB?

 

[KnightSlayer]

Interesting that two people mentioned that Kline played even though he didn't have a single tackle but, no one mentioned that Manny Bowen played and looked pretty good. 6 tackles with a fumble recovery. I know he's not big but, he showed excellent closing speed on a couple of outside runs that looked like they were going to go for more yards than they did.

 

[tboyer]

Not in trouble? They were DEFINITELY in trouble at the end. Army had just marched down the field and they had the ball again with 5 minutes left, down 6. The PSU defense was not only unable to stop them from gaining 4 yards per play, the PSU defense was tired, starting to collapse and give up bigger gains. Remember it's very young LBers, they aren't prepared for that kind of pressure.

If it hadn't been for the fumble on the last drive that put them at 2nd and 9, I'm not sure what would have stopped Army. It wouldn't have been the PSU D.

But really I don't blame the D. That is an offense right out of 1968 and they don't have time to prepare for it adequately. It was very reasonable that the D would have trouble. Army has a very good offensive backfield and they execute very well.

I blame the O. The Army D was NOT competitive, PSU had all kinds of mismatches at all kinds of positions, and PSU kept messing around running between the tackles right into 8 men in the box -- and punting. It was almost like Paterno was back, wanting to the put the ball in the hands of his punter and the defense.

Geez, Franklin, don't make Joe's mistake -- possession is IMPORTANT. This is not 1971. When the other team has the ball, they can score. When you have the ball, you can score. The team that scores the most wins. Therefore, punting is NOT a good thing. You want to avoid punts, and the way to do that is to game plan for first downs.

It's been a number of weeks and I still haven't seen evidence that Donovan knows about the first down rule. It's really not that complicated a rule -- if you can go 10 yards in 3 plays, you DON'T HAVE TO PUNT! They let you keep the ball!!!! I hope Franklin at some point reviews that rule with Donovan. The way football works, if you get first downs, the scoring generally takes care of itself. Play for first downs.

 

[mn78psu83]

Interesting that two people mentioned that Kline played even though he didn't have a single tackle but, no one mentioned that Manny Bowen played and looked pretty good. 6 tackles with a fumble recovery. I know he's not big but, he showed excellent closing speed on a couple of outside runs that looked like they were going to go for more yards than they did.

Bowen appears to have the speed and instincts to be an excellent player for PSU. I know that HS highlights can be misleading. Still, he looked like a player. He was able to run down people from the opposite side of the LOS. He had a couple of very impressive plays on pursuit where he took the correct angle to the ball and never give up on the play. A real hustler.

 

[WDLion]

Interesting that two people mentioned that Kline played even though he didn't have a single tackle but, no one mentioned that Manny Bowen played and looked pretty good. 6 tackles with a fumble recovery. I know he's not big but, he showed excellent closing speed on a couple of outside runs that looked like they were going to go for more yards than they did.

Agree. Pretty sure he's the one who ran down the reverse that looked like it was going for big yardage.

 

[cjrugger]

I don't remember the defense 'causing' the fumbles.

Bothced snap, dropped 'end around', the Bowen recovery (great to see him flying around) was just a drop on the option pitch. Think we were very lucky

 

[Madsol]

Agree. Pretty sure he's the one who ran down the reverse that looked like it was going for big yardage.

Yep, that was him. Play looked like it was going to be real trouble for PSU but he did a great job of hustling and slowed the runner down allowing Zettle to make the tackle.

 

[psuro]

Interesting that two people mentioned that Kline played even though he didn't have a single tackle but, no one mentioned that Manny Bowen played and looked pretty good. 6 tackles with a fumble recovery. I know he's not big but, he showed excellent closing speed on a couple of outside runs that looked like they were going to go for more yards than they did.

You are correct - Bowen, a true frosh did play, and played well.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

• Honestly, it didn't look like anyone wanted to be there. The players, the fans, the students...perhaps the most lackluster game I can recall. PSU just wanted to survive, get out of the cold and move on. And to do that with minimum effort and risk to injury and turnovers.

Were there any students there? Didn't look like many. Miserable day to watch a football game....

 

[psuro]

Were there any students there? Didn't look like many. Miserable day to watch a football game....

Not many. Even some of the upper decks were empty.

I felt like I went to a Penn State game and a Pitt crowd showed up.

 

[novaclassof90]

Sign of how bad the outside LB's handled the option. We played 5 different guys at that position throughout the day. Reeder, Walker, Bowen, Cooper, Kline. All of them looked lost for the most part. PSU D scheme was different. Two OLB's a few yards of the ball at the ends and Cabinda lining up as almost a safety position, he was about 10 yards off the ball on most snaps. I guess they did that so that the Army OLinemen couldn't fire out and engage him and stop him flowing to the ball. May be true but I thought it hurt us on runs right up the middle.

Safeties struggled too, Apke had some nice plays but he also took a ton of bad angles and missed some open field tackles. Need Allen healthy.

 

[jj410]

Not many. Even some of the upper decks were empty.

I felt like I went to a Penn State game and a Pitt crowd showed up.

Wimps. The Cadets were there.

 

[olelion]

All of the analysis that can be mustered up won't change my opinion that this team just plain stinks. It doesn't really matter whether you throw in sanctions, talent or coaching. They stink

 

[psuro]

All of the analysis that can be mustered up won't change my opinion that this team just plain stinks. It doesn't really matter whether you throw in sanctions, talent or coaching. They stink

Don't know what you are kevetching about. We post our analysis so that the coaching staff can peruse the board, and take notes from us so that they can improve the team.

We are here to help.

 

[pandaczar12]

Not many. Even some of the upper decks were empty.

I felt like I went to a Penn State game and a Pitt crowd showed up.

Why, were the fans talking about imaginary national titles?

 

[cyrizzle]

All of the analysis that can be mustered up won't change my opinion that this team just plain stinks. It doesn't really matter whether you throw in sanctions, talent or coaching. They stink

First of all I completely disagree, but I see you live in Fort Collins, which is also where I live. Just an FYI, but Old Chicago in Old Town Fort Collins is the new PSU bar in Fort Collins (Pats in Denver is the main PSU watch location in Colorado). You should come to a game at Old Chicago and spread the word about the new PSU bar. We are trying to get as many people as possible to come for game watch parties.

 

[olelion]

[QUOTis great ="cyrizzle, post: 627125, member: 7948"]First of all I completely disagree, but I see you live in Fort Collins, which is also where I live. Just an FYI, but Old Chicago in Old Town Fort Collins is the new PSU bar in Fort Collins (Pats in Denver is the main PSU watch location in Colorado). You should come to a game at Old Chicago and spread the word about the new PSU bar. We are trying to get as many people as possible to come for game watch parties.[/QUOTE]

That Is great to hear. I dont live far from the one on Timberline, but going to old town is fine. Thanks for the heads up.

 

[bdgan]

• I never got the feeling we were in trouble...ever. This Army team was scrappy but I felt like it was a matter of PSU playing their best players and coming together.
  
• Linebackers, young and inexperienced, especially against the triple option, were out of position all day long. On top of that, inexperience at the S position ended up with the same result.of the injury after the commercial and, of course, CJF isn't saying.a concussion and cannot play against Indy.

PSU is only up by 6 with only a few minutes to play, Army had the momentum as out defense was tiring, and they were driving from mid field. You didn't think we were in trouble? I sure did.

I agree about the LBs. I think Bell would have made a bid difference. Lucas is a senior at S and he might have made the worst attempt at a tackle all game. He had a perfect angle to stop Stop Army's second TD at the 25 yard line but he only gave the guy a push. That was pretty bad.

I agree that CJF played a Paterno style game but he doesn't have Paterno style talent & depth.

I don't give Donovan a break. He hasn't earned it from prior games. Besides, the rain didn't seem that bad to me. Colder but nothing like the rain in South Carolina.

I completely agree about Indiana. This team has to win the winnable games. They aren't strong enough to lose to teams like Indy & Illinois and hope to make it back by beating OSU & MSU.

A lot is going to come down to injuries. PSU might actually have a more difficult time with Diamont than Sudfeld. The bigger problem is that they now have to prepare for both. Howard was also hurt and PSU would catch a big break if he couldn't play. I'm not counting on it though because he was asking to return to the OSU game. We're assuming that Barkley and Bell are ready to play but we don't know for sure. I'm guessing that Lynch & Allen will not play. Those guys would really help.

 

[psuro]

PSU is only up by 6 with only a few minutes to play, Army had the momentum as out defense was tiring, and they were driving from mid field. You didn't think we were in trouble? I sure did.

I agree about the LBs. I think Bell would have made a bid difference. Lucas is a senior at S and he might have made the worst attempt at a tackle all game. He had a perfect angle to stop Stop Army's second TD at the 25 yard line but he only gave the guy a push. That was pretty bad.

I agree that CJF played a Paterno style game but he doesn't have Paterno style talent & depth.

I don't give Donovan a break. He hasn't earned it from prior games. Besides, the rain didn't seem that bad to me. Colder but nothing like the rain in South Carolina.

I completely agree about Indiana. This team has to win the winnable games. They aren't strong enough to lose to teams like Indy & Illinois and hope to make it back by beating OSU & MSU.

A lot is going to come down to injuries. PSU might actually have a more difficult time with Diamont than Sudfeld. The bigger problem is that they now have to prepare for both. Howard was also hurt and PSU would catch a big break if he couldn't play. I'm not counting on it though because he was asking to return to the OSU game. We're assuming that Barkley and Bell are ready to play but we don't know for sure. I'm guessing that Lynch & Allen will not play. Those guys would really help.

They beat Diamont last year.

If IU beats PSU fair and square - so be it. I just hope the coaches don't put PSU in a position where the team beats themselves.

 

[SR108]

Well, my prognostications were almost 100% dead on. As such, I am not sure what all the doom and gloom is about. We had two kids in the backfield that hadn't run the ball in a competitive football game at the collegiate lever. Probably more importantly, didn't have to pass block at the HS or collegiate level. We had several defenders held out. And, all of our linebackers had never played against a triple option offense. And, to top it off, it was a rain with wind gusts up to 25 mph.

This was the "perfect storm" for a bad game.

With that, here are my observations:

• CJF played a "JoePa-esque" game. In the bad weather, with very young ball handlers, he played to NOT turn the ball over and let the defense win the game. IMHO, very smart.
• I never got the feeling we were in trouble...ever. This Army team was scrappy but I felt like it was a matter of PSU playing their best players and coming together.
• Receivers were open down the field all day long. (perhaps for the first time) But PSU didn't go that route, probably due to the possibility of turnovers. When we did, two plays and a TD. (to the birthday boy, as I predicted).
• Linebackers, young and inexperienced, especially against the triple option, were out of position all day long. On top of that, inexperience at the S position ended up with the same result. The D-line ended up with little or no support because the LB's and S were so focused on stopping the outside game. Finally, PSU played our starting line very little. For whatever reason, we rotated the D-line constantly. At one point, I noticed all four were non-starters and one guy who made a tackle, I had never seen play. (White or Brown, can't remember which).
• I feel like the RB's played better than I thought. They were in position, didn't make any bad mistakes (missed blocks, fumbles). They were also a little more physical than they showed against SDSU. (who beat Fresno 21-7).
• The RB screen looks like it's here to stay. Again, effective in its usage this week and played very well. Sometimes you get a play, a timing play between RB and OL, that works. This does.
• Did we run one jet sweep? I believe we did, once to Polk for 14 yards. I didn't even see it faked much, and we faked it a ton in previous games.
• Nice to see Hack run the ball a little. He can run well and is quite a load. I'd like to see him run the ball once or twice on the read-option, if for no other reason to keep the D honest.
• Gesicki is getting his TE legs under him. I think he played much better and, perhaps, just needs some confidence. He didn't play TE in high school so it may still be a little new to him.
• Godwin is now our "go to" guy, not sure why. He's got all of the tools but doen't look like anything special. What he does do is come down with the ball. Many of his catches this year have been "jump balls". The one Saturday was a finger tip catch at full speed (then he came down on the ball and lost his breath).
• When Mangiro went down, PSU crawled back further into our shell. Wendy played well in his absence, I thought, but the C is an important position in calling out defenses. Perhaps the team was afraid of a missed call, an uncovered blitz, and a turnover. Mangiro had a lower body injury, on TV, it looked like an ankle (anybody see this at the game?). The announcers said nothing of the injury after the commercial and, of course, CJF isn't saying.
• By game end, these guys weren't playing: Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro + Breneman.
• Looks like Gulia got his bell rung, at the minimum. Hope he's OK. He didn't punt well. Ok, that's being kind. His punting was really bad, with one punt being horrible. Lets hope it was the weather. By the way, we played Robby Liebel as holder on place kicks.
• Klein played, which was great to see.
• The big toe is getting national love....and why not, kid has been automatic. I am a little concerned about the holder if Gulia has a concussion and cannot play against Indy.
• Honestly, it didn't look like anyone wanted to be there. The players, the fans, the students...perhaps the most lackluster game I can recall. PSU just wanted to survive, get out of the cold and move on. And to do that with minimum effort and risk to injury and turnovers.

Speaking of Indiana, they played their guts out against tOSU. tOSU didn't play well and sustained several key injuries. If it weren't for several key long runs buy EZ Elliot, Indy would have won that game. I am hopeful that CJF phoned this game in to prepare for the B1G schedule. Will Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro play? Who knows? CJF's lack of transparency here is just a little off putting.

So I am going to give Donovan and CJF a little bit of a pass here. While we would have liked to see more creativity, they played it very, very conservatively given the circumstances. I have reserved judgement on Donovan since Temple (which was as poorly coached as I have ever seen on O). If this persists against Indy, I won't be as patient.

Speaking of CJF, I loved his rant during the press conference. I suspect this was a deliberate act and calculated. But its a card you can only pull once. What is does is give CJF the ability to say "we are family, have each-other's backs, us against the world (well, press), etc.". I hope this wasn't a "I am going to protect my buddy, Donovan, no matter what..." kind of speech. Its time to show up, no more excuses. (assuming we get back starters; having said that, I still don't expect Nelson or Lynch).

Indy is the lynchpin game for this team, and it has set up that way since the final schedule was releases (and exacerbated by the loss to Temple). Indy is a solid, but not great, team. They've got a chance to have a great season, for them, and know it. A PSU win will result in some momentum and a winning record/bowl. A loss could end up with us winning only one other game. The only game that we will be favored in will be MD. Big game...lets hope these guys play, its good weather (for a change) and everyone has high energy.

Good observations as usual:

- What gets lost due to the concern/criticism of the offense it the fact that the Defense is not yet operating on all cylinders. Reeder and Cabinda have good potential, but are young and green. Bell is not 100%, and we are starting two second team safeties. We have a true sophomore and true freshman starting at corner. A lot of mental errors and miss reads are occurring. We are also not yet playing at full speed because of indecision. The triple option is difficult to defend if you only see it once every few years, but there have been rookie mistakes in every game so far.
- The offense seemed to regress Saturday. The coaches are playing very conservatively, Its like Joe is still coaching. The line is still struggling although they at least seem to know who to block in pass protection and are picking up blitzes. run blocking is inconsistent, the position hurting us the most is the Tight End. The weather was a factor, our game was not the only game played in the rain. We will need to score points to beat Indiana, and I'm not real sure we are capable of scoring enough points. We need to turn hack lose and see what happens. Play action passes down field on first down.
- Punting is a real problem and needs to get fixed. Field position will become much more important in the Big Ten Schedule starting this week.

 

[Obliviax]

Good observations as usual:

- What gets lost due to the concern/criticism of the offense it the fact that the Defense is not yet operating on all cylinders. Reeder and Cabinda have good potential, but are young and green. Bell is not 100%, and we are starting two second team safeties. We have a true sophomore and true freshman starting at corner. A lot of mental errors and miss reads are occurring. We are also not yet playing at full speed because of indecision. The triple option is difficult to defend if you only see it once every few years, but there have been rookie mistakes in every game so far.
- The offense seemed to regress Saturday. The coaches are playing very conservatively, Its like Joe is still coaching. The line is still struggling although they at least seem to know who to block in pass protection and are picking up blitzes. run blocking is inconsistent, the position hurting us the most is the Tight End. The weather was a factor, our game was not the only game played in the rain. We will need to score points to beat Indiana, and I'm not real sure we are capable of scoring enough points. We need to turn hack lose and see what happens. Play action passes down field on first down.
- Punting is a real problem and needs to get fixed. Field position will become much more important in the Big Ten Schedule starting this week.

Totally agree but it looked like two different games between the first half and second in terms of play calling. The staff was very uncomfortable with the O in the second half, aside from the two bombs, which were beautiful throws.

But I really agree with your assessment on the young players. We are playing so many Frosh, RS Frosh and Soph. These guys are inconsistent. Its part of youth. Its OK to play a guy who makes one bonehead play out of ten. But when you play ten, that's one bonehead play every play. These are drive stoppers. Or, on defense, they give up big plays. It is what it is. And, Sat, was a perfect storm playing an Army team that plays a unique offense that was helped by the weather. PSU, with both decent RB's out and an iffy passing game anyway, with very young players in a position to stop the 3 option (LB and S), I understand why the staff did what they did.

But, they won't have that luxury the next several weeks....this offensive conservatism won't get it done. I remain skeptical, but hopeful.

 

[BBrown]

I don't remember the defense 'causing' the fumbles.

Bothced snap, dropped 'end around', the Bowen recovery (great to see him flying around) was just a drop on the option pitch. Think we were very lucky

Didn't Cabinda cause a fumble with his tomahawk chop of the QB?

 

[SR108]

All of the analysis that can be mustered up won't change my opinion that this team just plain stinks. It doesn't really matter whether you throw in sanctions, talent or coaching. They stink

The team is just plain young. The youth that is playing has great potential, but they are young. With that said, if we see zero improvement by the end of the year, then I would say we have a coaching problem.

 

[bdgan]

The team is just plain young. The youth that is playing has great potential, but they are young. With that said, if we see zero improvement by the end of the year, then I would say we have a coaching problem.

The first team offense when everybody is healthy:
0 freshmen
3 sophomores (Godwin, Gesicki,
5 juniors (Hack, Hamilton, Palmer, Nelson, Mahon)
3 seniors (Mangiro, Gaia, Lynch)

Our starting OL certainly isn't young (2 juniors + 3 seniors). Backup Laurent is in his 4th year). Our WRs are definitely young. I think the biggest problem is that our depth is young.

 

[SR108]

The first team offense when everybody is healthy:
0 freshmen
3 sophomores (Godwin, Gesicki,
5 juniors (Hack, Hamilton, Palmer, Nelson, Mahon)
3 seniors (Mangiro, Gaia, Lynch)

Our starting OL certainly isn't young (2 juniors + 3 seniors). Backup Laurent is in his 4th year). Our WRs are definitely young. I think the biggest problem is that our depth is young.

Palmer is a Junior college transfer.
Gaia and Dowery are converted defensive tackles 1 .5 years removed.
Mahon and Nelson are red shirt Sophomores.

Under normal recruiting and development circumstances, Mangiro and perhaps Nelson who is hurt, would be the only guys starting. The other guys probably would not be on the depth chart. Probably none of these guys would be playing for even Indiana who has three Olinemen that will probably get drafted. They may not be young in terms of years, but they are short on experience at their position. With that said, they should be improving. I see it in the pass protection, but I do not yet see it in the running game.

 

[bdgan]

Palmer is a Junior college transfer.
Gaia and Dowery are converted defensive tackles 1 .5 years removed.
Mahon and Nelson are red shirt Sophomores.

Under normal recruiting and development circumstances, Mangiro and perhaps Nelson who is hurt, would be the only guys starting. The other guys probably would not be on the depth chart. Probably none of these guys would be playing for even Indiana who has three Olinemen that will probably get drafted. They may not be young in terms of years, but they are short on experience at their position. With that said, they should be improving. I see it in the pass protection, but I do not yet see it in the running game.

You're correct that my class didn't consider extra eligibility due to redshirts. I'm not sure what to think about experience. I remember Joe switching some kids from DL to OL in the spring and they seemed to do OK after a year in the position. The really discouraging part is that our OL has been working with a 30 lb. per man advantage against the teams we've played. Personally I think the problem is deeper than the OL. The whole offense is slow. Not much tempo, not much confidence, not much swagger. I was hoping that Hack would provide more of that this year. Maybe he just needs a little success to boost his confidence. Like a jump shooter making a few layups.

 

[wjb78]

Well, my prognostications were almost 100% dead on. As such, I am not sure what all the doom and gloom is about. We had two kids in the backfield that hadn't run the ball in a competitive football game at the collegiate lever. Probably more importantly, didn't have to pass block at the HS or collegiate level. We had several defenders held out. And, all of our linebackers had never played against a triple option offense. And, to top it off, it was a rain with wind gusts up to 25 mph.

This was the "perfect storm" for a bad game.

With that, here are my observations:

• CJF played a "JoePa-esque" game. In the bad weather, with very young ball handlers, he played to NOT turn the ball over and let the defense win the game. IMHO, very smart.
• I never got the feeling we were in trouble...ever. This Army team was scrappy but I felt like it was a matter of PSU playing their best players and coming together.
• Receivers were open down the field all day long. (perhaps for the first time) But PSU didn't go that route, probably due to the possibility of turnovers. When we did, two plays and a TD. (to the birthday boy, as I predicted).
• Linebackers, young and inexperienced, especially against the triple option, were out of position all day long. On top of that, inexperience at the S position ended up with the same result. The D-line ended up with little or no support because the LB's and S were so focused on stopping the outside game. Finally, PSU played our starting line very little. For whatever reason, we rotated the D-line constantly. At one point, I noticed all four were non-starters and one guy who made a tackle, I had never seen play. (White or Brown, can't remember which).
• I feel like the RB's played better than I thought. They were in position, didn't make any bad mistakes (missed blocks, fumbles). They were also a little more physical than they showed against SDSU. (who beat Fresno 21-7).
• The RB screen looks like it's here to stay. Again, effective in its usage this week and played very well. Sometimes you get a play, a timing play between RB and OL, that works. This does.
• Did we run one jet sweep? I believe we did, once to Polk for 14 yards. I didn't even see it faked much, and we faked it a ton in previous games.
• Nice to see Hack run the ball a little. He can run well and is quite a load. I'd like to see him run the ball once or twice on the read-option, if for no other reason to keep the D honest.
• Gesicki is getting his TE legs under him. I think he played much better and, perhaps, just needs some confidence. He didn't play TE in high school so it may still be a little new to him.
• Godwin is now our "go to" guy, not sure why. He's got all of the tools but doen't look like anything special. What he does do is come down with the ball. Many of his catches this year have been "jump balls". The one Saturday was a finger tip catch at full speed (then he came down on the ball and lost his breath).
• When Mangiro went down, PSU crawled back further into our shell. Wendy played well in his absence, I thought, but the C is an important position in calling out defenses. Perhaps the team was afraid of a missed call, an uncovered blitz, and a turnover. Mangiro had a lower body injury, on TV, it looked like an ankle (anybody see this at the game?). The announcers said nothing of the injury after the commercial and, of course, CJF isn't saying.
• By game end, these guys weren't playing: Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro + Breneman.
• Looks like Gulia got his bell rung, at the minimum. Hope he's OK. He didn't punt well. Ok, that's being kind. His punting was really bad, with one punt being horrible. Lets hope it was the weather. By the way, we played Robby Liebel as holder on place kicks.
• Klein played, which was great to see.
• The big toe is getting national love....and why not, kid has been automatic. I am a little concerned about the holder if Gulia has a concussion and cannot play against Indy.
• Honestly, it didn't look like anyone wanted to be there. The players, the fans, the students...perhaps the most lackluster game I can recall. PSU just wanted to survive, get out of the cold and move on. And to do that with minimum effort and risk to injury and turnovers.

Speaking of Indiana, they played their guts out against tOSU. tOSU didn't play well and sustained several key injuries. If it weren't for several key long runs buy EZ Elliot, Indy would have won that game. I am hopeful that CJF phoned this game in to prepare for the B1G schedule. Will Lynch, Barkley, Allen, Bell, Nelson, Schwan, Gulia, Mangiro play? Who knows? CJF's lack of transparency here is just a little off putting.

So I am going to give Donovan and CJF a little bit of a pass here. While we would have liked to see more creativity, they played it very, very conservatively given the circumstances. I have reserved judgement on Donovan since Temple (which was as poorly coached as I have ever seen on O). If this persists against Indy, I won't be as patient.

Speaking of CJF, I loved his rant during the press conference. I suspect this was a deliberate act and calculated. But its a card you can only pull once. What is does is give CJF the ability to say "we are family, have each-other's backs, us against the world (well, press), etc.". I hope this wasn't a "I am going to protect my buddy, Donovan, no matter what..." kind of speech. Its time to show up, no more excuses. (assuming we get back starters; having said that, I still don't expect Nelson or Lynch).

Indy is the lynchpin game for this team, and it has set up that way since the final schedule was releases (and exacerbated by the loss to Temple). Indy is a solid, but not great, team. They've got a chance to have a great season, for them, and know it. A PSU win will result in some momentum and a winning record/bowl. A loss could end up with us winning only one other game. The only game that we will be favored in will be MD. Big game...lets hope these guys play, its good weather (for a change) and everyone has high energy.

I enjoy posts like this from people who have a much better technical understanding of the game than I do, and it's why I joined BWI. I didn't intend to post much, though the non-football issues we all suffer from at Penn State prompted me to offer an opinion or two to date. But even the "casual football observer" like myself can see there are fundamental problems that are prohibiting a talented group of young men from doing what they intend to do, despite some really impressive talent among them. This offense performs like a group who just met each other last week, or last month. We know that's not true, they've worked hard together, but there is little "click", or synch.

In the Marine Corps those of us who were leaders were held to the standard of being responsible for everything our commands did, or failed to do. Five games into the season we should be past the point of calling out individual players; it's time to concern ourselves with the leaders who are responsible for molding those players into the unit they should now be, and for employing those players in a way that ensures success within the limits of their individual abilities. JVP did that; got the best out of what he had, as have many other coaches. Has our coaching staff done that, at 4-1? Maybe, but I'm not feeling it. Einstein suggests doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result defines insanity. Or maybe the dogged determination of Coach Franklin is just a bit of desperation when the intellectual well begins to run dry. It's hard for me to call for the relief of a man whose job I can not do. So I won't, just yet, but I implore the head coach to do all that is in his power to set the conditions for success by whatever actions he must take.

 

[jschrantz]

Mostly ridiculous comments.
We will be underdogs in all games but MD? Have you seen the Indy spread?
We were never in trouble? Actually, PSU was about one play from a loss.
No one wanted to be there? Well, Army didn't look that way.
You would have liked more creativity? No kidding.
Play conservatively against a very bad team? Great idea.
RBs played well? This was Army, for pete's sake.
Receivers were open but PSU didn't throw to them for fear of turnovers? Yeah, that makes sense, nothing like a wide open receiver for interceptions.
CJF's rant was staged? I doubt it, but it was diversionary, blaming dissatisfaction on people who were concerned with the point spread, i.e., gamblers rather than real fans who don't see much improvement week to week.

Totally agree, it's always a great idea to avoid throwing to Open Wrs out of fear of the pick,hahahaha. that's quite possibly the most absurd thing I've read this season so far, congrats Obli.