Official Graham Spanier trial thread.

[UncleLar]

There's two reasons why his statement to Joe that he was ok would be more reliable than his testimony as to how he described the conduct to Joe/Curley/Schultz. First, the statement to Joe that he was okay with how it was handled, is a statement against his interest. It doesn't serve him any benefit and in fact undermines his story somewhat. Generally, those statements are deemed more credible (in fact, such statements are an exception to hearsay since they are considered more reliable at law). Second, I think MM was pretty clear that, when describing the conduct to Joe, Curley and Schultz, he couldn't remember the exact words but recalled the severity what he conveyed. That's a huge distinction and leaves a lot open to interpretation as to what MM thinks he may have conveyed (10 years ago mind you) versus how Joe/Curley/Schultz interpreted what he conveyed.

As I've said, perfect example of people twisting McQueary's words, then blaming him for changing his story. He TESTIFIED under oath that Paterno was asking about his mental health when he asked if he as ok, he was not asking about whether McQueary was ok with how Curley and Schultz handled the incident.

 

[Chris92]

There seem to be three alternatives.

1. Paterno said nothing or nothing of substance. Hard to see how that would change Curley's mind.

2. Paterno agreed with the course of action. Ditto.

3. Paterno objected to it being reported. This would explain the change.

In the same email, Curley says "I need some help on this one." Did Curley explain what he meant by that?

Of course, the big question is, why was the AD and the football coach still involved in this situation, two weeks after the incident. This was no longer an AD/football team problem at this point, if it ever was.

Also, was Curley asked why they didn't go back to the original plan after Sandusky initially denied being involved?

Why were the HC and AD having a meeting? There were two open assistant vacancies at the time, eventually filled by Carter and Norwood. Certainly it wouldn't be strange for those two to be meeting in the midst of the hiring process, right?

 

[kgilbert78]

As I've said, perfect example of people twisting McQueary's words, then blaming him for changing his story. He TESTIFIED under oath that Paterno was asking about his mental health when he asked if he as ok, he was not asking about whether McQueary was ok with how Curley and Schultz handled the incident.

Given the words he reported Joe using, he's reading Joe's mind then.

If you have the exact quote, it would be useful here. If the testimony you note above is from this trial, but the quote is from an earlier time, then the possibility that MM changed his mind about the meaning remains.

 

[wensilver]

Update - on recess

The AP, Patriot-News & the Inquirer asked the Judge to release the names of the jurors.

He said he'd have an answer for them later on today

 

[MtNittany]

I guess that $12M will spend around town just as easily as it would after 100 years of asst' football coaching. Or 200 years of asst' golf pro-ing. Just have to justify it I guess.

 

[kevina001]

The AP, Patriot-News & the Inquirer asked the Judge to release the names of the jurors

The jurors don't know that, do they? If so, game over for Spanier. All of the social justice warriors and media hacks will be all over these jurors if they acquit. Hopefully for their sake the judge denies the request.

 

[psu00]

He's talking about a football game not a golf tournament and it's been well known that Mike played in that tournament only because it was a charity and he didn't know that Sandusky was involved when he committed to it. That's never been a secret.

Well, (in defense of Talpsu ), this is the first I've heard of a football game for charity MM participated in with JS. Do you recall who the charity event was for?

I think Talpsu was just mixing this football game with other second Mile golf outings (IIRC) that MM reportedly took part in post 2001.

 

[dwiz]

Update - on recess

The AP, Patriot-News & the Inquirer asked the Judge to release the names of the jurors.

He said he'd have an answer for them later on today

The jurors knowing their names are going to be out in the public is just another reason that they'll find him guilty. They don't want to be "those jurors" that let GS off.

 

[MtNittany]

The jurors don't know that, do they?

This is Pennsylvania. Of course they'll be warned of that eventuality (if they haven't already).

 

[wensilver]

The jurors knowing their names are going to be out in the public is just another reason that they'll find him guilty. They don't want to be "those jurors" that let GS off.

They don't know that yet.

 

[Madsol]

Because he never said that. His testimony was clear that when Joe asked if he was ok it was in regard to his mental health not in regard to whether he was ok with the actions that C/S took. That's clear from his testimony and is the perfect example of people twisting his word so that THEIR stories, not Mike's, are mixed up.

Do you realize that every time you try to come to McQueary's defense, you bury him deeper and deeper? So he was telling Paterno he was OK from a mental health standpoint, that's your claim? So according to him (his version now at least), he had witnessed the violent sexual assault of a child and had communicated that to several very high ranking people at PSU. And the results of that on the perpetrator of that violent sexual assault of a child?...nothing! Absolutely nothing had happened to Sandusky! And McQueary was OK with that, from a mental health standpoint? Seriously??!! What kind of a man witnesses a child being violently sexually assaulted (if we are to believe him now) yet nothing happens to the perpetrator and the man who witnessed everything is just fine and dandy, from a mental health standpoint? Not guilt-ridden having done nothing to stop the assault? Not distraught at the idea of some poor kid being horribly abused and him having done nothing to alert the police? Not horrified every time he closed his eyes seeing the image of that poor boy struggling to break free from his abuser? None of that? For McQueary, according to you, he was fine with everything that happened, from a mental health standpoint? That's really what you're telling us?

McQueary is a liar or a coward. Those are your choices. Why you want to defend either of those is beyond me.

 

[wensilver]

The jurors don't know that, do they? If so, game over for Spanier. All of the social justice warriors and media hacks will be all over these jurors if they acquit. Hopefully for their sake the judge denies the request.

I explained that to the gal repping the papers that asked the judge.

I explained why it's unfair to these average people to throw a grenade into their lives like that - no matter how they decide.

And no - the jurors were not in the courtroom when she asked. The judge can decide NOT to release the names. He said he'd entertain her request and get back to her.

 

[MtNittany]

They don't know that yet.

OAG carrier pigeon hasn't arrived at the window yet.

 

[AldenT]

OAG carrier pigeon hasn't arrived at the window yet.

Roxine has delayed her flight to East Lansing to make them aware.

 

[interrobang]

For a high profile public case, a judge releasing the names of the jurors is in essence tainting the jury.

 

[MtNittany]

For a high profile public case, a judge releasing the names of the jurors is in essence tainting the jury.

...or blackmail.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

For a high profile public case, a judge releasing the names of the jurors is in essence tainting the jury.

I think it's idiotic to release the names regardless.

 

[bplionfan]

Well, (in defense of Talpsu ), this is the first I've heard of a football game for charity MM participated in with JS. Do you recall who the charity event was for?

I think Talpsu was just mixing this football game with other second Mile golf outings (IIRC) that MM reportedly took part in post 2001.

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...mike-mcqueary-jerry-sandusky-golf-tournaments

McQueary played in and Sandusky coached in the annual Easter Bowl benefiting Easter Seals Central Pennsylvania on March 28, 2002, according to a review of news archives from the time period. McQueary, a former Penn State quarterback, also played in a June 21, 2002, celebrity golf tournament benefitting Sandusky's charity, The Second Mile.

McQueary played in Second Mile golf tournament again in 2003 and was again on the field for the Easter Seals flag football game, with Sandusky coaching, in April 2004.

 

[jerseylion109]

why on earth would the names of the jurors have to be public?

 

[BBrown]

Update - on recess

The AP, Patriot-News & the Inquirer asked the Judge to release the names of the jurors.

He said he'd have an answer for them later on today

I'm hoping he tells them to pound sand.
No one needs to know the names.

 

[pandaczar12]

As I've said, perfect example of people twisting McQueary's words, then blaming him for changing his story. He TESTIFIED under oath that Paterno was asking about his mental health when he asked if he as ok, he was not asking about whether McQueary was ok with how Curley and Schultz handled the incident.

Why else would Paterno be asking about his mental health if not related to the "incident"? I've lived a long life and no one has ever just randomly asked me about my mental health.

Regardless, he may be lying, he may just have heard what he wanted to hear. We will never know since Joe has passed. So we have to go with the common sense version that JVP was asking if he was OK about the incident.

 

[bjf1991]

I explained that to the gal repping the papers that asked the judge.

I explained why it's unfair to these average people to throw a grenade into their lives like that - no matter how they decide.

And no - the jurors were not in the courtroom when she asked. The judge can decide NOT to release the names. He said he'd entertain her request and get back to her.

That said........I'd sure like to hear from the Jurors when this is over

It should, though, be of their own volition.

 

[NewYC]

For a high profile public case, a judge releasing the names of the jurors is in essence tainting the jury.

The fix is in for this whole thing. Spanier is going down. I imagine TC and S were told that very thing and that's why they plead. If nothing else through this whole thing, I've learned that the level of corruption in the state where I grew up and lived for a good part of my life is run by mafiosos. It's f****** scary.

 

[jim cummings]

I explained that to the gal repping the papers that asked the judge.

I explained why it's unfair to these average people to throw a grenade into their lives like that - no matter how they decide.

And no - the jurors were not in the courtroom when she asked. The judge can decide NOT to release the names. He said he'd entertain her request and get back to her.

What was her rebuttal to what you told her? "Just doing my job?"

 

[psu00]

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...mike-mcqueary-jerry-sandusky-golf-tournaments

McQueary played in and Sandusky coached in the annual Easter Bowl benefiting Easter Seals Central Pennsylvania on March 28, 2002, according to a review of news archives from the time period. McQueary, a former Penn State quarterback, also played in a June 21, 2002, celebrity golf tournament benefitting Sandusky's charity, The Second Mile.

McQueary played in Second Mile golf tournament again in 2003 and was again on the field for the Easter Seals flag football game, with Sandusky coaching, in April 2004.

Thanks bplionfan.

EDIT-
So, if that article is true, then it's not just 1 charity football event where the 2 crossed paths and MM toughed it out for the charity. He would have gone back the next year with JS coaching again.... and to at least 2 Second Mile golf outings. Different picture than both just happened to cross paths at an Easter Seals charity event once.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

Because the plea was signed so a bit of the CYA is gone. I'm not saying that is the reason, but it is certainly a possibility.

[interrobang said: ↑
And as the defense attorney noted, Schultz's description of the bear hug was the very first time in the last 6 years that Schultz even mentioned such a thing.

Why would he mention that now yet in 2011 during his GJ testimony, allow himself to get coaxed into suggesting that what happened may well have been fondling?]

This is more of a reply to interrobang's question, but this thread is so freakin long I don't feel like taking the time to look for it.

This is why we need the transcripts. We already know Ditka either lied or screwed up in her Close when she said that Schultz told Raykovitz it was taken care of in 2001. The bear hug description was directly from the Victim 6 testimony and investigation in 1998. It's possible Ditka got that screwed up too, or intentionally misrepresented Gary's testimony in her extraordinarily outstanding Close.

 

[kentuckycb]

He's talking about a football game not a golf tournament and it's been well known that Mike played in that tournament only because it was a charity and he didn't know that Sandusky was involved when he committed to it. That's never been a secret.

Wasn't the golf tournament a Second Mile event?

 

[MtNittany]

That said........I'd sure like to hear from the Jurors when this is over

It should, though, be of their own volition.

Depending on the outcome, you will either find them on a parade float in the burg someday, or cowering in a basement.

 

[Lion Lineage]

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...mike-mcqueary-jerry-sandusky-golf-tournaments

McQueary played in and Sandusky coached in the annual Easter Bowl benefiting Easter Seals Central Pennsylvania on March 28, 2002, according to a review of news archives from the time period. McQueary, a former Penn State quarterback, also played in a June 21, 2002, celebrity golf tournament benefitting Sandusky's charity, The Second Mile.

McQueary played in Second Mile golf tournament again in 2003 and was again on the field for the Easter Seals flag football game, with Sandusky coaching, in April 2004.

This is one of the main reasons why I don't believe that McQueary saw sexual abuse take place or communicated to others that he saw sexual abuse take place. I firmly believe that he changed his story later at the behest of the OAG. Otherwise we're left with a guy who witnessed a child being sexually assaulted, did not call the police, and later socialized with the predator at his charity events.

 

[UncleLar]

That seems to bit of a stretch from what was reported originally. Or MM changed his mind again.

What's a stretch is how other people have twisted the testimony. From the Curley/Schultz prelim hearing:

 

[ram2020]

http://www.sbnation.com/ncaa-footba...mike-mcqueary-jerry-sandusky-golf-tournaments

McQueary played in and Sandusky coached in the annual Easter Bowl benefiting Easter Seals Central Pennsylvania on March 28, 2002, according to a review of news archives from the time period. McQueary, a former Penn State quarterback, also played in a June 21, 2002, celebrity golf tournament benefitting Sandusky's charity, The Second Mile.

McQueary played in Second Mile golf tournament again in 2003 and was again on the field for the Easter Seals flag football game, with Sandusky coaching, in April 2004.

I mean, that's what I would do if three years prior I had seen the host of the golf tournament forcibly raping a young boy. Pull our the old Big Bertha and yell Fore!!!!

I honestly think this is not focused on nearly enough. How can MM be at all credible, he witnessed something so evil and so graphic and basically got "on with his life" which included hanging around Sandusky on a few occasions. How could you ever look at the man again? How could you ever support his charity? I just dont get it.

 

[kgilbert78]

What's a stretch is how other people have twisted the testimony. From the Curley/Schultz prelim hearing:

Thanks. That is what I was hoping for.

 

[Madsol]

This is one of the main reasons why I don't believe that McQueary saw sexual abuse take place or communicated to others that he saw sexual abuse take place. I firmly believe that he changed his story later at the behest of the OAG. Otherwise we're left with a guy who witnessed a child being sexually assaulted, did not call the police, and later socialized with the predator at his charity events.

Exactly. It's really this simple.

 

[Ceasar]

55 pages and you are making attacks on another poster off topic.

Nobody gives a shit about your attacks. Stay on topic or get off the thread.

I explained that to the gal repping the papers that asked the judge.

I explained why it's unfair to these average people to throw a grenade into their lives like that - no matter how they decide.

And no - the jurors were not in the courtroom when she asked. The judge can decide NOT to release the names. He said he'd entertain her request and get back to her.

I will take the counter position on this one. We should know who the jurors are in every case in America. A defendant has a constitutional right to a jury of his peers. How do you know if they are your peers if you have no idea who they are? Do we just take the state's word for it that these are all Dauphin County residents? What if we later found out a few of them worked for the AG?
Anonymity also gives a juror cover to disregard the law and do whatever they want when determining a verdict. I recognize that, like most things they get involved in, the press will act in an irresponsible manner and abuse the information they receive. I am also fairly certain there is established case law that jurors names are public, as is everything that transpires in a court.

 

[jim cummings]

I mean, that's what I would do if three years prior I had seen the host of the golf tournament forcibly raping a young boy. Pull our the old Big Bertha and yell Fore!!!!

I honestly think this is not focused on nearly enough. How can MM be at all credible, he witnessed something so evil and so graphic and basically got "on with his life" which included hanging around Sandusky on a few occasions. How could you ever look at the man again? How could you ever support his charity? I just dont get it.

I would like to hear Dukie's thoughts on this. Has he ever touched on it?

 

[wensilver]

What was her rebuttal to what you told her? "Just doing my job?"

Well - the constitution allows it - yada yada - we had a nice chat and I just expressed my concern about tossing a grenade into regular people's lives that are just trying to do their civic duty.

I gave her examples of online harassment that becomes real life problems for regular folks. It's in Judge Boccabella's hands.

 

[kentuckycb]

"The football coach made me do it" isn't much of a defense, so it doesn't help Curley to point the finger at Paterno. On the other hand, it's probably in his self-interest to stay on the right side of the "Paterno People."

It'll be interesting to see what the judge does in sentencing Curley.

It's not much of a defense because it's pretty ludicrous. "Come on Tim, don't scar the football team and my image. Let's only tell TSM and not DPW." Seriously? And it's not strange that Paterno was still involved at this point. He was the first person to hear Mike's report. Paterno certainly had a hand in this thing. But let's stick to plausible scenarios.

Also, sentencing won't be interesting. Curley already said it's house arrest if anything due to medical issues.

 

[coveydidnt]

I will take the counter position on this one. We should know who the jurors are in every case in America. A defendant has a constitutional right to a jury of his peers. How do you know if they are your peers if you have no idea who they are? Do we just take the state's word for it that these are all Dauphin County residents? What if we later found out a few of them worked for the AG?
Anonymity also gives a juror cover to disregard the law and do whatever they want when determining a verdict. I recognize that, like most things they get involved in, the press will act in an irresponsible manner and abuse the information they receive. I am also fairly certain there is established case law that jurors names are public, as is everything that transpires in a court.

http://www.wfmz.com/news/court-rules-pa-jurors-names-public-record/16337982

 

[interrobang]

Joe probably asked MM that for the same reason MM'd dad told him to come right home instead of to call police. And the same reason MM felt compelled to call home instead of call police.

 

[wensilver]

I will take the counter position on this one. We should know who the jurors are in every case in America. A defendant has a constitutional right to a jury of his peers. How do you know if they are your peers if you have no idea who they are? Do we just take the state's word for it that these are all Dauphin County residents? What if we later found out a few of them worked for the AG?
Anonymity also gives a juror cover to disregard the law and do whatever they want when determining a verdict. I recognize that, like most things they get involved in, the press will act in an irresponsible manner and abuse the information they receive. I am also fairly certain there is established case law that jurors names are public, as is everything that transpires in a court.

Their names were all read into the record earlier with the lawyers. We did not hear them. They've all been vetted by both sides and picked.