Ok, serious question for all you folks knowledgeable about

[demlion]

The Sandusky case and its effect on PSU. This is inspired by another thread on the board, here: https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...te-failed-to-protect-her.164274/#post-2583792

As we know, the children who got abused by Sandusky, under the auspices of his Grooming Charity, which was partnered with Centre County Children and Youth Services, were all or mostly all on the radar of CYS. Yet despite dozens (scores?) of kids being groomed and sexually abused by JS over years and years, CYS never knew a thing. They let him adopt 6 kids, they were told straight up by Alycia Chambers he was grooming Victim 6, there were any number of other instances whereby reasonably competent people would have suspected him, but nobody did a thing.

Then it turns out that, long after the blame was laid at the feet of a football coach and some University Admins, CYS is actually not very good at protecting children, as the Tutko (sp?) case and others show. Turns out if you are a kid at risk of being raped and killed, destroying the rep of a Football coach doesn't do a damned thing to protect you. Ok, time for the QUESTIONS!

1) How many people in the entirety of PA state government agencies charged with protecting children were fired, reprimanded, given days off without pay as a result of the Sandusky case?

2) Was the guy who rang in an unlicensed counselor, John Seasock, to counteract Alycia Chambers' report, given any kind of negative job consequence for creating an information silo which kept a vital truth hidden?

3) Was any person, at any level, given even a stern talking to regarding the idea that TSM GROOMED the child protection agencies for over a quarter of a century?

These are serious questions, though I believe the answers are Zero, No and No. Please provide any info you have, especially if it is different.

Forget PSU. That these outrages ever occurred is astonishing. That they were never punished is instructive. The blood of that little girl Grace Packer in the linked story above, and the Tutko boy from Dauphin county, is on the hands of Corbett, Kelly, Fina and everyone else in the state government. It is on the hands of TSM's Board, which knew even after 98 that JS was breaking the rules which required no one on one between kids and TSM staff. And it is on the hands of every newshack who ever wrote a story about Joe's perfidy but has studiously ignored the Parker and Tutko cases, and failed to draw the line of causation.

This is the true outrage of this case.

 

[BBrown]

The Sandusky case and its effect on PSU. This is inspired by another thread on the board, here: https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...te-failed-to-protect-her.164274/#post-2583792

As we know, the children who got abused by Sandusky, under the auspices of his Grooming Charity, which was partnered with Centre County Children and Youth Services, were all or mostly all on the radar of CYS. Yet despite dozens (scores?) of kids being groomed and sexually abused by JS over years and years, CYS never knew a thing. They let him adopt 6 kids, they were told straight up by Alycia Chambers he was grooming Victim 6, there were any number of other instances whereby reasonably competent people would have suspected him, but nobody did a thing.

Then it turns out that, long after the blame was laid at the feet of a football coach and some University Admins, CYS is actually not very good at protecting children, as the Tutko (sp?) case and others show. Turns out if you are a kid at risk of being raped and killed, destroying the rep of a Football coach doesn't do a damned thing to protect you. Ok, time for the QUESTIONS!

1) How many people in the entirety of PA state government agencies charged with protecting children were fired, reprimanded, given days off without pay as a result of the Sandusky case?

2) Was the guy who rang in an unlicensed counselor, John Seasock, to counteract Alycia Chambers' report, given any kind of negative job consequence for creating an information silo which kept a vital truth hidden?

3) Was any person, at any level, given even a stern talking to regarding the idea that TSM GROOMED the child protection agencies for over a quarter of a century?

These are serious questions, though I believe the answers are Zero, No and No. Please provide any info you have, especially if it is different.

Forget PSU. That these outrages ever occurred is astonishing. That they were never punished is instructive. The blood of that little girl Grace Packer in the linked story above, and the Tutko boy from Dauphin county, is on the hands of Corbett, Kelly, Fina and everyone else in the state government. It is on the hands of TSM's Board, which knew even after 98 that JS was breaking the rules which required no one on one between kids and TSM staff. And it is on the hands of every newshack who ever wrote a story about Joe's perfidy but has studiously ignored the Parker and Tutko cases, and failed to draw the line of causation.

This is the true outrage of this case.

I'm going to go out on a limb here (although Its probably more like a trunk) and guess...
ZERO?

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

The Sandusky case and its effect on PSU. This is inspired by another thread on the board, here: https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...te-failed-to-protect-her.164274/#post-2583792

As we know, the children who got abused by Sandusky, under the auspices of his Grooming Charity, which was partnered with Centre County Children and Youth Services, were all or mostly all on the radar of CYS. Yet despite dozens (scores?) of kids being groomed and sexually abused by JS over years and years, CYS never knew a thing. They let him adopt 6 kids, they were told straight up by Alycia Chambers he was grooming Victim 6, there were any number of other instances whereby reasonably competent people would have suspected him, but nobody did a thing.

Then it turns out that, long after the blame was laid at the feet of a football coach and some University Admins, CYS is actually not very good at protecting children, as the Tutko (sp?) case and others show. Turns out if you are a kid at risk of being raped and killed, destroying the rep of a Football coach doesn't do a damned thing to protect you. Ok, time for the QUESTIONS!

1) How many people in the entirety of PA state government agencies charged with protecting children were fired, reprimanded, given days off without pay as a result of the Sandusky case?

2) Was the guy who rang in an unlicensed counselor, John Seasock, to counteract Alycia Chambers' report, given any kind of negative job consequence for creating an information silo which kept a vital truth hidden?

3) Was any person, at any level, given even a stern talking to regarding the idea that TSM GROOMED the child protection agencies for over a quarter of a century?

These are serious questions, though I believe the answers are Zero, No and No. Please provide any info you have, especially if it is different.

Forget PSU. That these outrages ever occurred is astonishing. That they were never punished is instructive. The blood of that little girl Grace Packer in the linked story above, and the Tutko boy from Dauphin county, is on the hands of Corbett, Kelly, Fina and everyone else in the state government. It is on the hands of TSM's Board, which knew even after 98 that JS was breaking the rules which required no one on one between kids and TSM staff. And it is on the hands of every newshack who ever wrote a story about Joe's perfidy but has studiously ignored the Parker and Tutko cases, and failed to draw the line of causation.

This is the true outrage of this case.

Bravo Dem .... this has been the issue all along. Well put.

 

[91Joe95]

It is astounding the damage that has been done to the welfare of at risk children. Opportunities to fix broken systems were completely ignored. The intimidation and out right blaming of the people who had the audacity to care and do the right is astounding. I took the child abuse reporting class offered by Pitt. One of the questions posed was if someone reported something to you what do you do. It was multiple choice, and one of the choices was to call the police. Guess what? It was the wrong answer and would not let you move on until you corrected it. At this point, anyone who tries to argue on what should have been done gets met with a stern 'you clearly don't care about kids' from me, along with a bunch of questions and a pleasant lecture about what actually happened and what should have. Child Protective Services in this state flat out disgust me.

 

[BobPSU92]

Please take this opportunity to remember that Penn State has a culture problem.

 

[91Joe95]

Please take this opportunity to remember that Penn State has a culture problem.

They do. Its just not from the people who were vilified by the leadership and media.

 

[Ceasar]

Somewhat related, we would all probably be surprised to learn how many children in PA die each year as the result of abuse that we never hear about. I know for a fact of a recent child death in Dauphin County that never made it into the media. The laziness of the media is astonishing but also does a horrible disservice to the public as these atrocities continue as there is no pressure for reform of the CYS system.

 

[wensilver]

I'll play!

1) How many people in the entirety of PA state government agencies charged with protecting children were fired, reprimanded, given days off without pay as a result of the Sandusky case? NONE. not even a stern note placed in their file. However, quite a few were jostling at the microphone for their share of the "Penn State money".

2) Was the guy who rang in an unlicensed counselor, John Seasock, to counteract Alycia Chambers' report, given any kind of negative job consequence for creating an information silo which kept a vital truth hidden? NOPE

3) Was any person, at any level, given even a stern talking to regarding the idea that TSM GROOMED the child protection agencies for over a quarter of a century? NONE WHATSOEVER

Aside from TSM imploding - and those folks losing their jobs with the charity - I am not aware of any other negative consequences for any licensed professional, caseworker, therapist, counselor or jurist at the local, county and/or state level that placed kids with Sandusky. That goes for public school employees that allowed Sandusky to volunteer, and to interact with Second Mile clients - that eventually testifed in court.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

The county governments deserve more scrutiny......and how these people get these CYS jobs in the counties. One guess allowed. And, of course we have a ton of folks who say there is nothing political about any of this. LOL. (Note: once we start looking at county government, we are really talking about local politics and who has the real local power.)

There are never gonna be any stern talking tos in these employment situations. The guy you are talking sternly to will have your job in very many cases.

You try holding these employees responsible, you get on the shiatlist of somebody with juice who sponsored that employee. Good luck. And the person with the juice will never be named.

 

[bwifan]

I'll play!



Aside from TSM imploding - and those folks losing their jobs with the charity - I am not aware of any other negative consequences for any licensed professional, caseworker, therapist, counselor or jurist at the local, county and/or state level that placed kids with Sandusky. That goes for public school employees that allowed Sandusky to volunteer, and to interact with Second Mile clients - that eventually testifed in court.

Just staggering to me Wendy... I read your post several times. Amazing to think of how little fallout there really has been other then Joe and the 3... perfect example I believe you like to use is the shiny turd. Look over here and ignore all the other crap

 

[MtNittany]

This is the true outrage of this case.

No problem at all with the PA OAG's handling of this mess? All on the state agencies, huh?

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

The county governments deserve more scrutiny......and how these people get these CYS jobs in the counties. (One guess.)

I'll play!



Aside from TSM imploding - and those folks losing their jobs with the charity - I am not aware of any other negative consequences for any licensed professional, caseworker, therapist, counselor or jurist at the local, county and/or state level that placed kids with Sandusky. That goes for public school employees that allowed Sandusky to volunteer, and to interact with Second Mile clients - that eventually testifed in court.

That's because we are talking about protected people. No consequences to the protectors, either.

 

[Ten Thousan Marbles]

No problem at all with the PA OAG's handling of this mess? All on the state agencies, huh?

The OAG is the state.

IF it all fell on the OAG, this would all be over by now..

Time to look at the people who chair the political parties in the county (ies.) Need a hint which one to start with?

 

[demlion]

No problem at all with the PA OAG's handling of this mess? All on the state agencies, huh?

Huh. Read the whole post, a little more slowly. Try not to move your lips.

 

[roswelllion]

Where are the usual j--ks Osprey and Jive to answer these questions.

 

[psu00]

You expect state government to be efficient, held to account, or admit they screwed up and then fix it?? Not likely.

Totally agree the CYS/ state government failures are abysmal but it's like dealing with the DMV- everyone just accepts the incompetence as "just the way it is".

No reporters have seriously questioned the many CYS failures and kept a spotlight on them.

No politicians have raised a serious stink from what I've seen- not the big players in state government from the governor on down (both parties).

How do you charge 3 college administrators, (untrained in these issues), but yet not charge the CYS 'professionals' (all well trained) for missing the same predator (especially in 1998)?

How has no one demanded a complete audit/ investigation/ overhaul of PA DPW/ CYS over these cases? There have been many cases of abuse and CYS dropping the ball post JS but no one in the media or government appears to care if it doesn't somehow link back to Sandusky.

 

[Chris92]

Why wasn't the entire 1998 police report leaked? Seasock's report mentions "through previous interviews" there was another coach present in '98. It seems like that info would certainly be in the full police report and explain why the '98 incident never went anywhere.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160601...ns/news/Seasock_Sandusky_Report_Redacted1.pdf

 

[bdgan]

The Sandusky case and its effect on PSU. This is inspired by another thread on the board, here: https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threa...te-failed-to-protect-her.164274/#post-2583792

As we know, the children who got abused by Sandusky, under the auspices of his Grooming Charity, which was partnered with Centre County Children and Youth Services, were all or mostly all on the radar of CYS. Yet despite dozens (scores?) of kids being groomed and sexually abused by JS over years and years, CYS never knew a thing. They let him adopt 6 kids, they were told straight up by Alycia Chambers he was grooming Victim 6, there were any number of other instances whereby reasonably competent people would have suspected him, but nobody did a thing.

Then it turns out that, long after the blame was laid at the feet of a football coach and some University Admins, CYS is actually not very good at protecting children, as the Tutko (sp?) case and others show. Turns out if you are a kid at risk of being raped and killed, destroying the rep of a Football coach doesn't do a damned thing to protect you. Ok, time for the QUESTIONS!

1) How many people in the entirety of PA state government agencies charged with protecting children were fired, reprimanded, given days off without pay as a result of the Sandusky case?

2) Was the guy who rang in an unlicensed counselor, John Seasock, to counteract Alycia Chambers' report, given any kind of negative job consequence for creating an information silo which kept a vital truth hidden?

3) Was any person, at any level, given even a stern talking to regarding the idea that TSM GROOMED the child protection agencies for over a quarter of a century?

These are serious questions, though I believe the answers are Zero, No and No. Please provide any info you have, especially if it is different.

Forget PSU. That these outrages ever occurred is astonishing. That they were never punished is instructive. The blood of that little girl Grace Packer in the linked story above, and the Tutko boy from Dauphin county, is on the hands of Corbett, Kelly, Fina and everyone else in the state government. It is on the hands of TSM's Board, which knew even after 98 that JS was breaking the rules which required no one on one between kids and TSM staff. And it is on the hands of every newshack who ever wrote a story about Joe's perfidy but has studiously ignored the Parker and Tutko cases, and failed to draw the line of causation.

This is the true outrage of this case.

But its not a big news story without Joe and you can't sue for $millions without Penn State University.

 

[marisa45]

I'm not an alum but my father and brother were so I've watched these discussions with interest but have rarely taken part. Still I'd like to mention something I discussed with my brother a couple weeks ago. Instead of the constant gnashing of teeth from the alumni about this subject why don't you do an end around the current players on your own and put together an independent organization to investigate the whole scandal beginning to end.

It may sound like a hair brain idea but somebody with enough guts and ambition (cough: Dem), should look into putting together an Organization independent of the PSU Administration, BOT and even the Alumni Association with the sole purpose of funding an investigative task force (an "independent counsel" of sorts). It would have to be somebody well connected and very well respected, capable of getting a movement started. I couldn't imagine there aren't scores of alumni who really want to know the truth, including some who would write very big checks, to find out exactly what happened. I'm sure there are enough potential candidates who are not involved with the state and the university at high levels to choose from.

There is so much smoke with this thing, there has to be fire; and when the real story gets told it will be the thing pulitzers are made of.

 

[Zenophile]

I'm not an alum but my father and brother were so I've watched these discussions with interest but have rarely taken part. Still I'd like to mention something I discussed with my brother a couple weeks ago. Instead of the constant gnashing of teeth from the alumni about this subject why don't you do an end around the current players on your own and put together an independent organization to investigate the whole scandal beginning to end.

It may sound like a hair brain idea but somebody with enough guts and ambition (cough: Dem), should look into putting together an Organization independent of the PSU Administration, BOT and even the Alumni Association with the sole purpose of funding an investigative task force (an "independent counsel" of sorts). It would have to be somebody well connected and very well respected, capable of getting a movement started. I couldn't imagine there aren't scores of alumni who really want to know the truth, including some who would write very big checks, to find out exactly what happened. I'm sure there are enough potential candidates who are not involved with the state and the university at high levels to choose from.

There is so much smoke with this thing, there has to be fire; and when the real story gets told it will be the thing pulitzers are made of.

That network exists. Read some of the stuff from @JmmyW or @wensilver. Or Blehar and Bagwell.

 

[wensilver]

Hi Marisa - when this shitstorm blew open and rained down on PSU back in November 2011 - I thought to myself. This isn't right. Penn State has too many influential and high profile alumni to let this injustice stand. It'll be over in 6 months.

Haahhahaaha - how naive I was.

You'll find plenty of research already done over the years at Ray Blehar's http://notpsu.blogspot.com/ Ray & Eileen Morgan's postings on http://march4truth.com/ Ryan Bagwell's https://www.pennstatesunshinefund.org/ & blog and on JmmyW's site https://jmmyw.wordpress.com/

Plenty of info on FramingPaterno.com, as well as with court filings and websites by Dr. Spanier & the Paterno family.

Hell - I got pissed off enough trying to figure out what the hell went on :



Plenty of regular John and Jane alumni, as well as our Alumni-elected Trustees have met personally with local and state decision makers on the various issues.

The impediments to actually "telling the story" is this:

• PA newspapers are too stupid, simply don't have the resources to dissect a complex political & legal narrative and prefer to use #PennState, #Paterno for cheap clicks and page views. PennLive/P-N is to Penn State what the N&O is to Duke and UNC - there is an acrimonious relationship and it's been that way for decades.
• National reporters have told me they see no value in covering this story unless something sordid like Second Mile was pimping out kids to high profile individuals. However, 2 high profile writers have told me they are silently watching this story - so I am somewhat hopeful.
• Our Board and Admin continually shoot themselves in the foot with their bizarre decision making.
• The legal & court process moves at a glacial pace - gagging people, grinding them down emotionally & financially - while the media ran with a narrative years ago and is off on their 3,926 shiny object - like a crow collecting tin foil.
• Our Office of Attorney General is corrupt. Don't underestimate the self-interests, greed & political agenda that had been brewing there since Corbett's days. Shutting down Castor's investigation team into Second Mile and destroying files should tell you something.

Shapiro gets sworn in today. He knows very well this "Penn State mess" is on his doorstep. I am hoping that with Shapiro and DePasquale together - this duo will effect some positive change. It was suggested to me that a special prosecutor be named by the AG to investigate the money flow and the corruption in the Phila Archdiocese and PSU cases.

Now I know Kane appointed special prosecutor Moulton to investigate the Sandusky investigation - but in re-reading his report, it's painfully clear our OAG never intended to nail anyone at Second Mile - and it was to keep it all on Penn State's doorstep. So were Frank Fina and pals getting kickbacks from the civil attorneys, as is rumored the Phila DA's office did in the Archdiocese case?

It's great question for our new AG and his executive team.

I'm not an alum but my father and brother were so I've watched these discussions with interest but have rarely taken part. Still I'd like to mention something I discussed with my brother a couple weeks ago. Instead of the constant gnashing of teeth from the alumni about this subject why don't you do an end around the current players on your own and put together an independent organization to investigate the whole scandal beginning to end.

It may sound like a hair brain idea but somebody with enough guts and ambition (cough: Dem), should look into putting together an Organization independent of the PSU Administration, BOT and even the Alumni Association with the sole purpose of funding an investigative task force (an "independent counsel" of sorts). It would have to be somebody well connected and very well respected, capable of getting a movement started. I couldn't imagine there aren't scores of alumni who really want to know the truth, including some who would write very big checks, to find out exactly what happened. I'm sure there are enough potential candidates who are not involved with the state and the university at high levels to choose from.

There is so much smoke with this thing, there has to be fire; and when the real story gets told it will be the thing pulitzers are made of.

 

[Nellie R]

Where are the usual j--ks Osprey and Jive to answer these questions.

They're not here because the thread title doesn't give the content away so it's not a shiny object that crossed their radar?

 

[Nellie R]

Hi Marisa - you'll find plenty of research already done over the years at Ray Blehar's notpsu.blogspot.com Ray & Eileen Morgan's postings on March4Truth.com, Ryan Bagwell's Penn State Sunshine Fund & blog and on JmmyW's Wordpress site. Plenty of info on FramingPaterno.com, as well as with court filings and websites by Dr. Spanier & the Paterno family.

Hell - I got pissed off enough trying to figure out what the hell went on :

View embedded media

Plenty of regular John and Jane alumni, as well as our Alumni-elected Trustees have met personally with local and state decision makers on the various issues.

The impediments to actually "telling the story" is this

• PA newspapers are too stupid, simply don't have the resources to dissect a political & legal narrative and prefer to use #PennState, #Paterno for cheap clicks and page views. PennLive/P-N is to Penn State what the N&O is to Duke and UNC - there is an acrimonious relationship and it's been that way for decades.
• National reporters have told me they see no value in covering this story unless something sordid like Second Mile was pimping out kids to high profile individuals. However, 2 high profile writers have told me they are silently watching this story - so I am somewhat hopeful.
• Our Board and Admin continually shoot themselves in the foot with their bizarre decision making.
• The legal & court process moves at a glacial pace - gagging people, grinding them down emotionally & finacially - while the media ran with a narrative years ago and is off on their 3,926 shiny object - like a crow collecting tin foil.
• Our Office of Attorney General is corrupt. Shutting down Castor's investigation team into Second Mile and destroying files should tell you something.

Shapiro gets sworn in today. He knows very well this "Penn State mess" is on his doorstep. I am hoping that with Shapiro and DePasquale together - this duo will effect some positive change.

@marisa45 Links to the places where you can read all the court filings as they come out :

Centre County: http://centrecountypa.gov/index.aspx?NID=506

Dauphin County: http://www.dauphincounty.org/government/Court-Departments/Curley-Schultz-Spanier/Pages/default.aspx

There are other locations when appeals occur such as the PA Superior Court and cases in the Philly Court of Common Pleas as well as the PA US District courts. I don't have all of those handy, but @JmmyW has many of them if not all of them under the Court Case Dockets tab here :

https://jmmyw.wordpress.com/author/jmmyw/


Ryan Bagwell's Sunshine Fund cases and documents are here: https://www.pennstatesunshinefund.org/

No1Lion99 also has a blog where several* have collaborated focusing on the Second Mile and more cases showing the state of PA's Child Protection systems. I believe that link is at the site hosted by a non-PSU alum
http://notpsu.blogspot.com/

*There are also many non PSU alumni contributing, although they can't do the really up close and personal work of addressing PA Pols and other "movers and shakers" face-to-face.

I am one of those (there are several more I'm personally aware of) and have become involved in the network ever since the NCAA started its rhetoric, having studied several of their lopsided enforcement cases since about 2005, as well as finding out in 2012 that the Second Mile was attempting to e$cape before the trial to the state where I reside-Texas and continue its faulty children's programs, with no one in this state paying attention to that rubber-stamping that was going on.

Finally there is quite a loose Twitter confederation that addresses false media reports/narrative continuation , false advocates who try to use narrative to further their own unrelated causes, and also to try and get these people to realize they are actually enabling child abuse of this type to continue.

 

[moofafoo]

They're not here because the thread title doesn't give the content away so it's not a shiny object that crossed their radar?

They're not here because PL had 3 garbage Sandusky and Spanier articles that got less than 150 hits together. When they get tired of trading the repetitious hatred they'll be back.

 

[marisa45]

Hi Marisa - you'll find plenty of research already done over the years at Ray Blehar's notpsu.blogspot.com Ray & Eileen Morgan's postings on March4Truth.com, Ryan Bagwell's Penn State Sunshine Fund & blog and on JmmyW's Wordpress site. Plenty of info on FramingPaterno.com, as well as with court filings and websites by Dr. Spanier & the Paterno family.

Hell - I got pissed off enough trying to figure out what the hell went on :

View embedded media

Plenty of regular John and Jane alumni, as well as our Alumni-elected Trustees have met personally with local and state decision makers on the various issues.

The impediments to actually "telling the story" is this

• PA newspapers are too stupid, simply don't have the resources to dissect a political & legal narrative and prefer to use #PennState, #Paterno for cheap clicks and page views. PennLive/P-N is to Penn State what the N&O is to Duke and UNC - there is an acrimonious relationship and it's been that way for decades.
• National reporters have told me they see no value in covering this story unless something sordid like Second Mile was pimping out kids to high profile individuals. However, 2 high profile writers have told me they are silently watching this story - so I am somewhat hopeful.
• Our Board and Admin continually shoot themselves in the foot with their bizarre decision making.
• The legal & court process moves at a glacial pace - gagging people, grinding them down emotionally & finacially - while the media ran with a narrative years ago and is off on their 3,926 shiny object - like a crow collecting tin foil.
• Our Office of Attorney General is corrupt. Shutting down Castor's investigation team into Second Mile and destroying files should tell you something.

Shapiro gets sworn in today. He knows very well this "Penn State mess" is on his doorstep. I am hoping that with Shapiro and DePasquale together - this duo will effect some positive change.

So I guess this is all a "wait and see" type situation but to be honest, it's frustrating with so little good information coming out and the lack of solid evidence linking the parties involved. I guess it makes sense that if somebody were doing this work they wouldn't be broadcasting it to the world.

It does seems like a lot of well intentioned folks are doing some good work in trying to uncover how we got here; hopefully, there's a Columbo in there somewhere and hopefully something meaningful comes out in the end, but I don't have a lot of faith.

My thought was along of the lines of big money donors hiring a team of former FBI agents to do an intensive study or perhaps some hot shot journalist looking for their big break. Whoever they are they would need to be big and powerful to be able to navigate the quagmire and actually get resolution.......maybe they're out there, maybe not.

 

[wensilver]

I speaking with AG Kathleen Kane last January - she told me that the FBI came to her when she took office and said that Geoff Moulton should stick to just the way the Sandusky investigation was handled - they would handle anything dealing with Second Mile.

So, where are the Feds?

Or - was Kane just a hot mess and blowing smoke up my ass? Just like Tom Kline did by telling me "Penn State would be seeing their money from Second Mile" or just like Louis Freeh telling me "it wasn't my mandate" or Tony "Grand Jury Secrecy" Sassano.

There's a stench here - and spraying an $8M can of FREEHbreze on it isn't making the stench go away. This stench has wafted up the Turnpike from Philly, mixed in with the corrupt breeze out of Harrisburg and has now settled in the bell tower of Old Main.

I guess it makes sense that if somebody is doing this work they wouldn't be broadcasting it to the world.

 

[coveydidnt]

So I guess this is all a "wait and see" type situation but to be honest, it's frustrating with so little good information coming out and the lack of solid evidence linking the parties involved. I guess it makes sense that if somebody were doing this work they wouldn't be broadcasting it to the world.

It does seems like a lot of well intentioned folks are doing some good work in trying to uncover how we got here; hopefully, there's a Columbo in there somewhere and hopefully something meaningful comes out in the end, but I don't have a lot of faith.

My thought was along of the lines of big money donors hiring a team of former FBI agents to do an intensive study or perhaps some hot shot journalist looking for their big break. Whoever they are they would need to be big and powerful to be able to navigate the quagmire and actually get resolution.......maybe they're out there, maybe not.

Some of these wouldbe Columbos raised money for their investigations back in early days.

If you want to know what happened, do what none of these have bothered to do. Read the newspapers, the Collegian, the Centre Daily times, cover to cover for the weeks before and after the Mike Mcqueary incident. You'll know it when you see it. You'll see why Spanier decided to handle this as quietly as possible. It has to do with context. If you do this, you will know more about this situation than all those pretend Sherlocks put together.

 

[Obliviax]

I speaking with AG Kathleen Kane last January - she told me that the FBI came to her when she took office and said that Geoff Moulton should stick to just the way the Sandusky investigation was handled - they would handle anything dealing with Second Mile.

So, where are the Feds?

Or - was Kane just a hot mess and blowing smoke up my ass? Just like Tom Kline did by telling me "Penn State would be seeing their money from Second Mile" or just like Louis Freeh telling me "it wasn't my mandate" or Tony "Grand Jury Secrecy" Sassano.

There's a stench here - and spraying an $8M can of FREEHbreze on it isn't making the stench go away. This stench has wafted up the Turnpike from Philly, mixed in with the corrupt breeze out of Harrisburg and has now settled in the bell tower of Old Main.

Agree....there is something seriously wrong here. And it is BIG. Way too many coincidences and moving parts. The FBI angle is very scary. We now see that the FBI is as corrupt and partisan as any other government organization. Sadly, and as usual, when the govt is involved its a crap show.

 

[indynittany]

Why wasn't the entire 1998 police report leaked? Seasock's report mentions "through previous interviews" there was another coach present in '98. It seems like that info would certainly be in the full police report and explain why the '98 incident never went anywhere.

http://web.archive.org/web/20160601...ns/news/Seasock_Sandusky_Report_Redacted1.pdf

As much as I applaud the OP, I still can't get over my suspicion that Seasock got it right.

 

[marisa45]

Some of these wouldbe Columbos raised money for their investigations back in early days.

If you want to know what happened, do what none of these have bothered to do. Read the newspapers, the Collegian, the Centre Daily times, cover to cover for the weeks before and after the Mike Mcqueary incident. You'll know it when you see it. You'll see why Spanier decided to handle this as quietly as possible. It has to do with context. If you do this, you will know more about this situation than all those pretend Sherlocks put together.

I know what happened, at least what's knowable. I'm frustrated by the lack of a powerful counter-narrative. Either they're holding it back due to an ongoing investigation or they don't have one......if that's the case, they're not looking in the right spots.

 

[Zenophile]

Some of these wouldbe Columbos raised money for their investigations back in early days.

If you want to know what happened, do what none of these have bothered to do. Read the newspapers, the Collegian, the Centre Daily times, cover to cover for the weeks before and after the Mike Mcqueary incident. You'll know it when you see it. You'll see why Spanier decided to handle this as quietly as possible. It has to do with context. If you do this, you will know more about this situation than all those pretend Sherlocks put together.

Looks like someone (note: not me) has already done the work: http://www.personal.psu.edu/glm7/m1134.htm

 

[Obliviax]

As much as I applaud the OP, I still can't get over my suspicion that Seasock got it right.

I think it is very possible somebody quashed that 1998 investigation. Gricar didn't pursue and many on his staff questioned that decision. And then Gricar mysteriously disappeared. Another odd thing is that JS didn't have any corroborating evidence at his home or on his computer. Finally, the way that case was rushed through and adjudicated (the way the judge ruled on several issues) was very odd.

There is something up here. I have no idea what, but there is something seriously wrong with this picture.

 

[Diego Badman]

So I guess this is all a "wait and see" type situation but to be honest, it's frustrating with so little good information coming out and the lack of solid evidence linking the parties involved. I guess it makes sense that if somebody were doing this work they wouldn't be broadcasting it to the world.

It does seems like a lot of well intentioned folks are doing some good work in trying to uncover how we got here; hopefully, there's a Columbo in there somewhere and hopefully something meaningful comes out in the end, but I don't have a lot of faith.

My thought was along of the lines of big money donors hiring a team of former FBI agents to do an intensive study or perhaps some hot shot journalist looking for their big break. Whoever they are they would need to be big and powerful to be able to navigate the quagmire and actually get resolution.......maybe they're out there, maybe not.

Marisa45: I can speak only for myself, but I think there are some who thought the same as I did. Bob Jubelirer was elected to the Board of Trustees and is up for reelection this year. I think many of us thought that he had the political contacts and political clout to cut through the b. s. and get to the truth of the matter. To the best of my knowledge, he's done absolutely nothing. I don't like being a conspiracy theorist, but there is a part of me who thinks he's a mole for the Old Guard to keep them apprised of anything the alumni elected trustees are planning. In that manner, they (the Old Guard) can be ready with an effective counter-punch.

 

[moofafoo]

I speaking with AG Kathleen Kane last January - she told me that the FBI came to her when she took office and said that Geoff Moulton should stick to just the way the Sandusky investigation was handled - they would handle anything dealing with Second Mile.

So, where are the Feds?

Or - was Kane just a hot mess and blowing smoke up my ass? Just like Tom Kline did by telling me "Penn State would be seeing their money from Second Mile" or just like Louis Freeh telling me "it wasn't my mandate" or Tony "Grand Jury Secrecy" Sassano.

There's a stench here - and spraying an $8M can of FREEHbreze on it isn't making the stench go away. This stench has wafted up the Turnpike from Philly, mixed in with the corrupt breeze out of Harrisburg and has now settled in the bell tower of Old Main.

Both Ray and myself confirmed that Federal Investigations can take up to ten years. I have seen nothing it has been concluded.

 

[wensilver]

I seriously doubt that but agree it is incredibly frustrating.

who thinks he's a mole for the Old Guard

The place is run by Steve Dunham, Rick Dandrea & Ira Lubert.

Let's look at the Board over at Hershey - our AG's office has told them over years to knock it off. They continue to thumb their noses at them. We have Senator Yudichak with others telling the BoT to knock it off. They continue to thumb their noses at them.

Don't underestimate the inertia of politics and simple petty self-dealing.

 

[wensilver]

Since you're new here - plenty of folks went down that rabbit hole years ago.

Some of these wouldbe Columbos raised money for their investigations back in early days.

If you want to know what happened, do what none of these have bothered to do. Read the newspapers, the Collegian, the Centre Daily times, cover to cover for the weeks before and after the Mike Mcqueary incident. You'll know it when you see it. You'll see why Spanier decided to handle this as quietly as possible. It has to do with context. If you do this, you will know more about this situation than all those pretend Sherlocks put together.

 

[coveydidnt]

Looks like someone (note: not me) has already done the work: http://www.personal.psu.edu/glm7/m1134.htm

This context shows why it might not have been a great time to be reporting Jerry. My assumption is that this led to the report being slow-rolled, to wait for heat to die down. And maybe they then talked themselves into "handling this more humanely."

If this has something to do with what was decided, and I don't see how it doesn't, being huge news and all, with grandstanding and hearings in Harrisburg, it wasn't a football culture issue.

Spanier was grilled for 4 hours in Harrisburg on the same day as those key, Freeh, emails.

 

[83wuzme]

I speaking with AG Kathleen Kane last January - she told me that the FBI came to her when she took office and said that Geoff Moulton should stick to just the way the Sandusky investigation was handled - they would handle anything dealing with Second Mile.

So, where are the Feds?

Or - was Kane just a hot mess and blowing smoke up my ass? Just like Tom Kline did by telling me "Penn State would be seeing their money from Second Mile" or just like Louis Freeh telling me "it wasn't my mandate" or Tony "Grand Jury Secrecy" Sassano.

There's a stench here - and spraying an $8M can of FREEHbreze on it isn't making the stench go away. This stench has wafted up the Turnpike from Philly, mixed in with the corrupt breeze out of Harrisburg and has now settled in the bell tower of Old Main.

It is very hard for me to believe this FBI story. Didn't the FBI pass on investigating TSM in 2012 ? What would be the point in waiting while evidence and witnesses disappear ?
The lack of curiousity from officialdom concerning TSM is alone evidence of a highly unprofessional investigation. This was the victim pool. It's where JS had been spending large amounts of time. As the OP pointed out, TSM was interfacing with all of these agencies and bureaucracies tasked with protecting and serving kids and were also were staffed by mandated reporters. It is beyond believability that people didn't know what was going on, especially considering the length of time involved.

 

[Zenophile]

It is very hard for me to believe this FBI story. Didn't the FBI pass on investigating TSM in 2012 ? What would be the point in waiting while evidence and witnesses disappear ?
The lack of curiousity from officialdom concerning TSM is alone evidence of a highly unprofessional investigation. This was the victim pool. It's where JS had been spending large amounts of time. As the OP pointed out, TSM was interfacing with all of these agencies and bureaucracies tasked with protecting and serving kids and were also were staffed by mandated reporters. It is beyond believability that people didn't know what was going on, especially considering the length of time involved.

TSM enjoyed robust support from politicians and celebrities alike during its heyday (anyone who ever tried to book a hotel room in State College during the weekend of their annual meeting knows exactly what I'm talking about).

So here's the $64K question: Were there enough power brokers at the core of that crowd to ensure that TSM would escape scrutiny?

 

[83wuzme]

TSM enjoyed robust support from politicians and celebrities alike during its heyday (anyone who ever tried to book a hotel room in State College during the weekend of their annual meeting knows exactly what I'm talking about).

So here's the $64K question: Were there enough power brokers at the core of that crowd to ensure that TSM would escape scrutiny?

Years before the Sandusky scandal I was told by a friend who had given generously to TSM that he saw the charity had VP's making six figures when he looked at their books.
I should have asked him if he stopped giving after he saw those salaries.