Olympic Results from Greco Roman Wrestling

[dicemen99]

It is different in that in folk you must initiate a new move in order to get more back points. In free, you can just keep turning and turning off the same move and get new backs.

You need to be returned to a defensible position in free for the next gut to count.

The arguments against the leg lace and trap arm techs are silly. Good wrestlers take advantage of opportunities for early match termination in all styles of wrestling. Upsets are secured by inferior wrestlers in folk also.

 

[Pennstate1985]

You need to be returned to a defensible position in free for the next gut to count.

In free, you can role someone like a crocodile rolls a wildebeest in the Nile and get the tech. Not much expertise in that.

There's nothing silly about one move costing world class athletes an honest chance at a medal. Why not make a leg lace/gut a 10 point move and be done with it. Why pretend that each roll is a unique move when it is not.

 

[dicemen99]

In free, you can role someone like a crocodile rolls a wildebeest in the Nile and get the tech. Not much expertise in that.

There's nothing silly about one move costing world class athletes an honest chance at a medal. Why not make a leg lace/gut a 10 point move and be done with it. Why pretend that each roll is a unique move when it is not.

You actually do have to return the opponent to a defensible position to score again and not just 'role' someone like a crocodile but since you obviously don't care much for freestyle I'm not expecting you to be concerned with that nuance, which is kind of my point about the complaints.

Did you find it silly when Rohn 'one moved' Lambrecht to cost him an NCAA title? Or does that standard just count for Olympic level athletes?

 

[El-Jefe]

You actually do have to return the opponent to a defensible position to score again and not just 'role' someone like a crocodile but since you obviously don't care much for freestyle I'm not expecting you to be concerned with that nuance, which is kind of my point about the complaints.

Did you find it silly when Rohn 'one moved' Lambrecht to cost him an NCAA title? Or does that standard just count for Olympic level athletes?

1. Except for out of bounds rolls, has a bottom guy "returned to defensible position" ever prevented a subsequent exposure in freestyle? Seems so rare that the rule may as well not exist.
2. "Defensible position" is both subjective and far less stringent than "release the hold."
3. Many (most?) freestyle turns do not put the bottom guy in any peril whatever of being pinned, even with the touch fall.
4. Rohn's cement mixer was a deliberate attempt to pin Lambrecht, which we were all taught is the ultimate goal.

BTW, the crocodile analogy is spot-on -- they don't turn for multiple revs continuously. There's always a pause at the bottom, without letting go ... and it doesn't prevent the next turn.

The nuance I see is that the folk rules/scoring system is designed to generate pins; TFs are intended as a byproduct of multiple unsuccessful pinning attempts (though it is certainly possible to TF via takedown tournament or multiple cheap tilts). Free is designed to generate TFs.

Whether that's good or bad is a conclusion each individual needs to reach for himself.

 

[NittanyLion84]

1. Except for out of bounds rolls, has a bottom guy "returned to defensible position" ever prevented a subsequent exposure in freestyle? Seems so rare that the rule may as well not exist.
2. "Defensible position" is both subjective and far less stringent than "release the hold."
3. Many (most?) freestyle turns do not put the bottom guy in any peril whatever of being pinned, even with the touch fall.
4. Rohn's cement mixer was a deliberate attempt to pin Lambrecht, which we were all taught is the ultimate goal.

BTW, the crocodile analogy is spot-on -- they don't turn for multiple revs continuously. There's always a pause at the bottom, without letting go ... and it doesn't prevent the next turn.

The nuance I see is that the folk rules/scoring system is designed to generate pins; TFs are intended as a byproduct of multiple unsuccessful pinning attempts (though it is certainly possible to TF via takedown tournament or multiple cheap tilts). Free is designed to generate TFs.

Whether that's good or bad is a conclusion each individual needs to reach for himself.

Spot on, it is silly to think that a takedown, with a well secured trapped arm and just because the taken down wrestler is returned to his stomach, he is in a defendable position for the next roll.

 

[Pennstate1985]

You actually do have to return the opponent to a defensible position to score again and not just 'role' someone like a crocodile but since you obviously don't care much for freestyle I'm not expecting you to be concerned with that nuance, which is kind of my point about the complaints.

Did you find it silly when Rohn 'one moved' Lambrecht to cost him an NCAA title? Or does that standard just count for Olympic level athletes?

You have no idea how I feel about freestyle as a whole.

 

[CropDuster507]

IMO what we need to change, more than anything, is how we approach folkstyle in the youth/HS age groups.

In MN, we have folkstyle tournaments at various levels of competition from October until April. Not that everyone is wrestling that long, but it's possible. So mommy and daddy have the kid wrestling 250 matches per year at all these tournaments, and by the time April hits, the kid is ready to put away his shoes until next season. Well, FS/GR begin then. It's hard to keep a kid wrestling year-round like that. I don't love the idea of 1-sport, specialized athletes at a young age. I feel like we need less competitions and more downtime for wrestlers to learn over shorter, split seasons. If you don't get a kid into FS pretty early, it's hard to get them to change in HS or MS.

So much emphasis and clout is put into folkstyle results and competition due to our collegiate style and scholarship possibility, but very few are getting huge scholarships. We need to encourage international styles participation early on and shorten our folkstyle seasons filled with 5 million "National" tournaments. Our culture of wrestling shoots us in the foot, internationally.

 

[Pennstate1985]

You actually do have to return the opponent to a defensible position to score again and not just 'role' someone like a crocodile but since you obviously don't care much for freestyle I'm not expecting you to be concerned with that nuance, which is kind of my point about the complaints.

Did you find it silly when Rohn 'one moved' Lambrecht to cost him an NCAA title? Or does that standard just count for Olympic level athletes?

I assume you found the Tervel semifinal match fun to watch? 10-0 in 30 seconds. Freestyle is better than it was, but the J'Den match was a total cluster of everything wrong with this sport. Maybe it would be better if the Olympics put wrestling out of its self imposed misery.

 

[dicemen99]

1. Except for out of bounds rolls, has a bottom guy "returned to defensible position" ever prevented a subsequent exposure in freestyle? Seems so rare that the rule may as well not exist.
2. "Defensible position" is both subjective and far less stringent than "release the hold."
3. Many (most?) freestyle turns do not put the bottom guy in any peril whatever of being pinned, even with the touch fall.
4. Rohn's cement mixer was a deliberate attempt to pin Lambrecht, which we were all taught is the ultimate goal.

BTW, the crocodile analogy is spot-on -- they don't turn for multiple revs continuously. There's always a pause at the bottom, without letting go ... and it doesn't prevent the next turn.

The nuance I see is that the folk rules/scoring system is designed to generate pins; TFs are intended as a byproduct of multiple unsuccessful pinning attempts (though it is certainly possible to TF via takedown tournament or multiple cheap tilts). Free is designed to generate TFs.

Whether that's good or bad is a conclusion each individual needs to reach for himself.

1. Completely disagree. Single turns are far more common than multiple turns at the highest level. You would be correct about multiple turns being more common the lower level of expertise you go. Just like pins are far more common in middle school than HS, in HS than college, etc.
2. Yes, it is more subjective.
3. Depends on what you define peril as. That would depend on the style wrestled.
4. This is a common argument, one i disagree with but you are entitled to your opinion - one that many share. I would point out that we teach many techniques in folk that are not aimed at pinning, but rather scoring points.

The amount of control exhibited in 4 consecutive turns is greatly underestimated IMO