OT and a sucky part about kids travel sports (baseball)

[Ceasar]

You are not going to like my response.

I think travel sports is a scam created by a group of greedy people who figured out a way to convince parents into spending money with their teams, by going after their kids and tugging on the parents guilty heartstrings. They want to give those parents the faint hope of their children being world class athletes, and chance for athletic scholarships to colleges. The entire travel sports culture is nothing more than an obligation for kids and their families. It takes time, schedule, money, organization and creates an unnecessary hierarchy for kids at a young age, as well as their families - based solely on the child's athletic abilities - and nothing else. it creates unnecessary angst and animosity between adults. Parents who think their child is the next baseball star or any other sports mega athlete are simply deluding themselves.

Kids don't learn fundamentals, they lose the concept of playing for fun, and using their imagination. Putting youth sports on television only makes it worse for pre-teens. The Little League World Series on television is abhorrent. I don't care that it's in Williamsport and brings in money to the town.

Treating children as if they were high paid professionals, and expecting them to perform as such, and with the same level of intensity and drive is simply a way for adults to redeem themselves for their own failures and inabilities in youth sports (on the larger plane). It also continues the downward spiral in America of our societal values of sports over other pursuits - including academics. If the parents would have their kids focus on academics as much as athletics it would bode well for the future of our society.

That is my rant. Thanks for reading it.

Go ahead and tell me that I am wrong, and that your little kid is a straight A student and a.400 hitter. The statistics would prove otherwise.

Now let's get the Weekend Jukebox thread started.

ro, this may be the best post you have ever made and you have many gems. Travel ball is nothing more that pay to play, it is an individual sport, not a team sport, there is virtually no teaching, no fundamentals, no bunt, no hit and run, etc...
I have known a number of people whose son's have played travel ball for years, they are good players and have gone on to play college ball and every parent to a person, have told me the travel ball was a complete and total waste of money.
I have been forced to watch some of these games as I volunteer at my high school and we host some of the games and the quality of play is awful.

 

[katchthis]

Well I was speaking anecdotally. But the people who promote travel ball love to hear the rare stories of folks like you.

Question: Did your son get a scholarship to play ball? If so, was it a full ride?

Speaking to the toughness of scholarships at a D-1 level at anything other than football. I heard Cael speak at a PSU golf outing this summer. He has 9 scholarships and ten weight classes. Jeesh.

 

[swordsman_l]

I can really only speak to travel hockey. My son "specialized" in hockey beginning age 8, and it was a great choice, for him.

Hockey is somewhat unique in that it involves skating, a skill that it difficult to practice on your own. You need a rink. you cant really skate on ponds or frozen rivers; they have too many ruts. The only way to get ice time is with a team. And travel teams have 4-5 ice times per week, "house" teams have 1 practice, 1 game. In suburban Buffalo, most of the best hockey players were on a travel team. But not all. Some parents simply couldnt afford the time. In fact, one morning, we were watching one of the 8 yo "house" teams playing. One of the dads remarked to me--"see that kid-I've seen him play baseball--he will be a pro athlete some day, just don't know what sport".

We moved cities when he was entering middle school. Friends from his travel hockey team(which started at end of August) helped him adjust to his new school immensely.

He quit club hockey, and hockey altogether, in 10th grade since it conflicted with football.
Played 2 yr of varsity FB as an undersized LB. I've always thought that hockey helped immensely with his lower body strength and balance.
Also had a chance to pick up lacrosse and played 3 yrs varsity.
And ended up playing varsity hockey his final season after football ended.

So what are the lessons from this story?
1) Even if you "specialize" in one sport, you can often learn another sport, well enough to participate at a high school varsity level, fairly quickly.
2) Travel team sports encourage confidence and camaraderie that can transfer to the classroom and other walks of life.
3) The best travel team players arent necessarily the "best " athletes in the community. The really good 8 yo "house team" hockey player above? Kids name was Rob Gronkowski.

 

[nitanee123]

Speaking to the toughness of scholarships at a D-1 level at anything other than football. I heard Cael speak at a PSU golf outing this summer. He has 9 scholarships and ten weight classes. Jeesh.

It is indeed rare to get a scholarship yet quite a few of these parents think their kid is going to buck the odds. And I’m talking about parents of eight year olds who are getting their kids into travel ball! The reality for a lot of these parents is that their kid is the “tallest midget”. Little Johnny might be really good among his league, but the truth is that the league isn’t that great.

 

[Steviedpsu]

I’m in South Jersey, but there are also laws here to cover it..funny thing is there is a police station right across the street from the field. The ump was a guy in his early-20s and was fine with just getting rid of him and moving on. I’ve never had things escalate that badly, but I doubt that I would have just let him leave and restarted the game.

I umpire baseball and used to do some tournaments. One game I had the game ended in a tie, then a bench clearing brawl! Another game, same tournament different years, I had a parent trying to climb a fence to start a fight with a player. Cops called both times and they just got rid of the people, nothing more. All teams involved were from Long Island! I don't do that tournament anymore, but do a lot of others and it is crazy how much money people spend on them.

 

[psualt]

ro, this may be the best post you have ever made and you have many gems. Travel ball is nothing more that pay to play, it is an individual sport, not a team sport, there is virtually no teaching, no fundamentals, no bunt, no hit and run, etc...
I have known a number of people whose son's have played travel ball for years, they are good players and have gone on to play college ball and every parent to a person, have told me the travel ball was a complete and total waste of money.
I have been forced to watch some of these games as I volunteer at my high school and we host some of the games and the quality of play is awful.

You don’t know a lot of people then if everyone said that. Some teams are better than others but most are solid. Some teams consist of players brought in to win the tournaments, some are there just to showcase their players and a few are more of your more local or regional squads that are trying to see better competition than they see on a regular basis. The fees can range from thousands to a few hundred. There are always other kids that for one reason or another aren’t on the team. Sometimes money is the reason and it irritates the people whose son can’t try out and prove that he is better than some of the players that made the team. You have a poster who can send his kid to IMG. It wouldn’t make sense for me financially or otherwise but I’m not upset that he can do it. I look at travel ball as the same way. It’s not for everyone but it’s an individual choice.

 

[AWS1022]

Well I was speaking anecdotally. But the people who promote travel ball love to hear the rare stories of folks like you.

Question: Did your son get a scholarship to play ball? If so, was it a full ride?

Not at first because he was a walk on...he chose the school he really wanted to go to over a school just to play baseball. He ended up getting a little bit of financial help, but not much.

 

[Lyons212]

If your kid is interested in travel sports you need to do your homework. Their are plenty of great opportunities available, just as their are plenty of scams out there (basically not worth the cost).

Many times kids play travel even if it is low level is to get away from problem kids in rec. I actually started coaching travel soccer because of a bad experience coaching rec soccer. I had a child who was learning disabled, had psychological/emotional problems and the parents would drop her off and leave. One coach would work with this child the entire practice and the other coach had the other 11 kids. Sad situation. Most rec coaches are not trained in special education, it is very challenging coaching a child with significant behavior issues.

The person who ran our local travel program was well connected in the Baltimore soccer scene. He said that many of the "elite" programs were started by people who played soccer in college and then needed a way to make a living with soccer. They started a soccer club. The experience varies greatly.

One coach left our lower level program, moved his entire team to one of the "elite" clubs in Baltimore. The families went from paying $500 a year to paying $2500 a year. They had the same coaches, same teammates, same league, same tournaments, different name on the front of the jersey. Most of the parents left after the 1st year. Bad experience and plenty of that out their. Plenty of clubs will gladly take your money.

I have a friend, her daughter plays for one of the elite clubs in Baltimore. Very expensive. The team played at US youth nationals this summer, her daughter made the all tournament team. For her, it is a great experience, she is looking at a scholarship from major D1 programs.

Parents really need to do their homework as to what they are getting.

 

[RU31trap]

I did travel soccer for one year and then we stopped. Both my wife (at the time) and I both worked full time, so 1 to 4 hour trips every single weekend got old really really fast. My daughter was happy to get out and play recreational sports, in HS she was a cheerleader (which also became insanely stressful by her senior year). My son did start as QB in pop warner, middle school and freshman football.

 

[dbsteel]

And travel teams are not about winning!

This is the spin off travel team of the local "in house" team. Its not an All American type pay you train and play thing. Its run by some dads who think they know it all, but they've clearly never played, and it ends up being pure daddy ball. This was 8U baseball.

By the time these kids are 11 and 12, the league has pissed off so many people and turned enough kids off that they hate it and barely have enough kids to field teams.

 

[dbsteel]

Jeez, I came to argue about Urban, but here is baseball, the love of my life. The joke about AAU/travel ball is how watered down it is. At one time, these teams were nothing but elite players and their parents paying thousands dollars to play and travel. Now, there is an AAU program on every corner which will take all comers with money. The same high prices are being paid by parents to play on a crappy team. AAU in name only. Our local travel teams made up of the better in-house players routinely trash most AAU teams and can hold their own with the elite ones.

There is no doubt about that, especially for the younger ages. The local teams end up being better- I think its because its hard to find enough parents willing to pay over $2000 for an 8 year old to play baseball. So a lot stay local.

But by the time those same kids are 15, it ends up reversing, plus at 15 they end up finding people who will afford it. And those kids that got in early got so much better and more training, that they improve beyond the local kid.

Basically, my kid is a real good local player, and if we decided to go to an AAU program we do train some with, the team itself probably won't be all that good, but he would get better.

 

[kgilbert78]

If you’re a parent, please, please, please don’t have your child specialize in one sport. Even if it’s playing rec ball in another sport, have them do it. And push them toward life sports (golf, tennis, swimming) that they can continue to play their whole adult lives.

For a team sport (as all of the examples you gave were individual sports), soccer can be good. I played until I was 50 (mostly in age-appropriate leagues--often co-rec--as I grew older) and had some teammates play in their 60s. I think it's good for kids to play team sports as well as individual sports to learn teamwork and how to play well with others. For me, the knees started to give out--no major injuries, excepting a jammed knee once--but they just ached. When I realized I was sore on Saturday from the previous Sunday's game, that was a clue that it was time. I then coached youth soccer for about 5 years after that with a former teammate.

 

[kgilbert78]

Many times kids play travel even if it is low level is to get away from problem kids in rec. I actually started coaching travel soccer because of a bad experience coaching rec soccer. I had a child who was learning disabled, had psychological/emotional problems and the parents would drop her off and leave. One coach would work with this child the entire practice and the other coach had the other 11 kids. Sad situation. Most rec coaches are not trained in special education, it is very challenging coaching a child with significant behavior issues.

We had one year where one of our players could barely walk (and I am not joking nor exaggerating). It wasn't fair to anyone--though it there were learning experiences for all, especially when the kid got picked on by some of his teammates. We did not put up with that--one of the few times I yelled at our kids.

I'll note that I was very sympathetic to that situation, having been a rather clumsy kid (still a bit that way--but you do learn how to fall properly!) whose one season of organized sport before college was playing on the JV of the JV of the junior high soccer team (to be somewhat fair, we did have kids on that team who later played D1--one at Penn State) and getting about 15-20 min of playing time all season. But it was almost impossible with the one kid.
We had better luck with other kids who were less athletic but were willing (and able to work). It was a joy when they used something they'd learned in a game--or even scored.

As for me, I grew out of it a bit later in life and had a long career in amateur soccer--mostly rec league--where I turned into a halfway useful striker. One reason I enjoyed working with the less than perfect kids who had a good heart for the game.

 

[Lyons212]

We had one year where one of our players could barely walk (and I am not joking nor exaggerating). It wasn't fair to anyone--though it there were learning experiences for all, especially when the kid got picked on by some of his teammates. We did not put up with that--one of the few times I yelled at our kids.

I'll note that I was very sympathetic to that situation, having been a rather clumsy kid (still a bit that way--but you do learn how to fall properly!) whose one season of organized sport before college was playing on the JV of the JV of the junior high soccer team (to be somewhat fair, we did have kids on that team who later played D1--one at Penn State) and getting about 15-20 min of playing time all season. But it was almost impossible with the one kid.
We had better luck with other kids who were less athletic but were willing (and able to work). It was a joy when they used something they'd learned in a game--or even scored.

As for me, I grew out of it a bit later in life and had a long career in amateur soccer--mostly rec league--where I turned into a halfway useful striker. One reason I enjoyed working with the less than perfect kids who had a good heart for the game.

Agree. Some of the favorite kids I have coached have been the ones who are below average. Sometimes it is amazing what happens when you give a kid some attention, they start to improve, many ended up being a solid player. Part of being a coach is figuring out how best to use a player.

All the rec teams I coached, I made it point after every game to say something positive about each player that they did during the game. Sometimes you are really stretching, but everyone appreciates it. One year at the end of the season, the Mom of one of the weakest boys I ever coached, took me aside (I am thinking, what did I do wrong) and to my surprise thanked me for helping her son feel good about himself. Best moment of my coaching career.

 

[kgilbert78]

Agree. Some of the favorite kids I have coached have been the ones who are below average. Sometimes it is amazing what happens when you give a kid some attention, they start to improve, many ended up being a solid player. Part of being a coach is figuring out how best to use a player.

All the rec teams I coached, I made it point after every game to say something positive about each player that they did during the game. Sometimes you are really stretching, but everyone appreciates it. One year at the end of the season, the Mom of one of the weakest boys I ever coached, took me aside (I am thinking, what did I do wrong) and to my surprise thanked me for helping her son feel good about himself. Best moment of my coaching career.

One of mine was the time one of the kids said to me "we like you, you don't yell at us all the time". While I've not seen most of those kids in a few years, one of them I mentored after the team ended (aged out into HS), as he lost his dad at 4--he's now a junior pharmacy student in college.

 

[SimplyComplicated]

1) Even if you "specialize" in one sport, you can often learn another sport, well enough to participate at a high school varsity level, fairly quickly.

This REALLY depends on the sport. Anything with a "specialized" skill isn't going to be something the great, great majority of folks will be able to learn that quickly, and well enough to play on varsity. Baseball, tennis, golf, hockey, basketball (unless you're immensely tall and don't need much actual skill), soccer ... you need a ton of learned and/or specialized skill to play these games well.

Football and lacrosse, on the other hand, you mainly need athleticism and/or strength (other than at QB). Stick work in lacrosse is pretty basic and after an adjustment, can be learned quickly (especially if you've played sports with stick work and/or sports with the same concepts of consistent motion).

Not many football players are picking up a bat for the first time in high school and becoming a varsity baseball player. Not many basketball players are strapping on skates for the first time and developing into a hockey player at age 15. But an athletic kid who has played baseball, and maybe soccer, is probably going to quickly pick up lacrosse. And a strong basketball player could transition into a TE, WR, even RB (depending on body type).

 

[dbsteel]

My two cents about the money of Travel Ball- people are right...... maybe not all the teams are as good even as local teams. But if your kid likes it, it keeps him busy and off the couch, and he's being trained by guys who aren't straight up "dad's who never played", then so be it. Some of the programs offer better facilities and better instruction, even if the kids might not all be the stud athletes.

I see parents blowing money on all kinds of sports and also hobbies, like dance, cheerleading, and gymnastics. So what. If you can afford it and the kid is doing it mostly for fun and simply to play better competition, and you aren't overtly pushing him, does it really matter?

 

[hlstone]

My kid plays travel field hockey and loves it. Her core group of hockey friends are sweet and talented. The coaches on the club team are a cross of high school and college coaches. We spend close to 5k a year. She is having fun, getting A's in school, and missed by a whisker of making the U-16 national team. 3 of her teammates did make it. We do have a couple of crazy parents, but I like them, makes me look well mannered.