OT: Does football really provide an opportunity to obtain a quality education?

[mgkpsu]

I know a kid who is involved with a Division 1 football program, and he is finding that virtually everyone at the school, both inside and outside of the program, is actively discouraging him from pursuing his preferred major, which would lead to a very lucrative career. They keep telling him that it will be, at least, very difficult to focus on both football and classes, as if their immediate needs outweighs his future.

Is this what major college sports has become?

The next time this kid/his parents ask me, I'm going to tell him to go with his chosen major and try to make it work, and then walk away from football and focus on school if not. He doesn't think that he would ever make it to the NFL, and has a good head on his shoulders.

On a related note, I wondered what our kids are majoring in these days (I know that Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management was popular once upon a time), and found that lots are enrolled in Labor & Employment Relations, which seems to lead to a career as Toby Flenderson.

 

[LionsandBear]

Many careers just require a Degree. A Bachelor's in anything is better than no Degree.

 

[manatree]

Is this what major college sports has become?

That is what major college sports has been for years, and yes, it happens at Penn State as well.

 

[phillybillyreprise]

I agree that balancing football and academics is difficult. I believe that a player should be given additional years to complete his degree if necessary. The additional time should not count against the scholarship limit.
Finally, I majored in Labor and Employment Relations and had a 40 year career in the field with the last 11 years heading up programs for large employers.

 

[Richard the LIONhearted]

I know a kid who is involved with a Division 1 football program, and he is finding that virtually everyone at the school, both inside and outside of the program, is actively discouraging him from pursuing his preferred major, which would lead to a very lucrative career. They keep telling him that it will be, at least, very difficult to focus on both football and classes, as if their immediate needs outweighs his future.

Is this what major college sports has become?

The next time this kid/his parents ask me, I'm going to tell him to go with his chosen major and try to make it work, and then walk away from football and focus on school if not. He doesn't think that he would ever make it to the NFL, and has a good head on his shoulders.

On a related note, I wondered what our kids are majoring in these days (I know that Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management was popular once upon a time), and found that lots are enrolled in Labor & Employment Relations, which seems to lead to a career as Toby Flenderson.

So, is the major something like software engineering? I think cautioning the student about the rigors of sports and a major like SE is good guidance, but then ultimately showing support to the student to pursue whichever major(s) he chooses - hell, even our own John Reid understands this concept better than you do. https://www.eecs.psu.edu/news/2019/john-reid-football-cse.aspx

The more misguided part of your post is to compare majors in what you view as a hierarchy of value and relevance. What if the player that you referred to in your post did study the LER major while playing CFB and excelled in both? And then leveraged his experience as a D1 football player in his post undergraduate career - those guys are viewed like titans in a lot of circles, I am certain many orgs would be happy to hire the graduate, especially companies tied into the PS Alumni network. This sounds like a potentially "lucrative" career path in its own right, doesn't it?

 

[LurkerLazarus]

I think the point to be made clear is that no football coach of a major D-1 program would even want a team full of engineers. These guys, even at Penn State, are here to play football. Yeah, they have to go to class, and yeah, they have to get good grades. But the staff would rather have a couple of guys like Reid and Urschel that they can hold up and use for PR purposes far more than they'd want an entire team of them. Without explicitly stating it, they don't want a teamful of guys where academics truly has to come first.

There was a coach here once who didn't use regular weightlifting protocols. He used the HIT method, because it was less time-consuming and would allow kids more time to attend to academic pursuits. HIT sessions were 45 minutes a day, instead of 75+ minutes of regular barbell training sessions. For this, he was widely derided as being behind the times and laughed at. You see, even fans of the Grand Experiment didn't want HIT used, at the expense of time for scholarly pursuits.

Luckily, we will soon be moving into an era where the truly elite player won't be going to classes like they do now. Academics really doesn't matter, and pretty soon, it won't matter at all. The farce can end.

 

[psu1969a]

It must be school first; athletics second. If not why are we doing it.

 

[Woodpecker]

My brother QBed a small college team back in the fifties. He said it was the smartest bunch of guys on the team - they would quote Shakespeare in the locker room. He said that they lost 17 straight games. He told me that is when he learned to smoke and drink.

That being said, I think that the kid should major in something that he likes to do because he'll be doing that for many years after he hangs up his ... cleats.

 

[wbcincy]

Does it provide an “opportunity?” Yes, of course. It’s up to the kid what make of that opportunity. There are far too many examples of student-athletes who do take advantage to argue that there is no opportunity.

 

[PearlSUJam]

I know a kid who is involved with a Division 1 football program, and he is finding that virtually everyone at the school, both inside and outside of the program, is actively discouraging him from pursuing his preferred major, which would lead to a very lucrative career. They keep telling him that it will be, at least, very difficult to focus on both football and classes, as if their immediate needs outweighs his future.

Is this what major college sports has become?

The next time this kid/his parents ask me, I'm going to tell him to go with his chosen major and try to make it work, and then walk away from football and focus on school if not. He doesn't think that he would ever make it to the NFL, and has a good head on his shoulders.

On a related note, I wondered what our kids are majoring in these days (I know that Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management was popular once upon a time), and found that lots are enrolled in Labor & Employment Relations, which seems to lead to a career as Toby Flenderson.

College degrees are the equivalent of high school diplomas these days. It's important to get a degree so that you can start work on a masters.

 

[Aardvark86]

I know a kid who is involved with a Division 1 football program, and he is finding that virtually everyone at the school, both inside and outside of the program, is actively discouraging him from pursuing his preferred major, which would lead to a very lucrative career. They keep telling him that it will be, at least, very difficult to focus on both football and classes, as if their immediate needs outweighs his future.

Is this what major college sports has become?

The next time this kid/his parents ask me, I'm going to tell him to go with his chosen major and try to make it work, and then walk away from football and focus on school if not. He doesn't think that he would ever make it to the NFL, and has a good head on his shoulders.

On a related note, I wondered what our kids are majoring in these days (I know that Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management was popular once upon a time), and found that lots are enrolled in Labor & Employment Relations, which seems to lead to a career as Toby Flenderson.

Yes, but it and any d 1 sport also limit that opportunity. It’s a full time job.

 

[katchthis]

I know a kid who is involved with a Division 1 football program, and he is finding that virtually everyone at the school, both inside and outside of the program, is actively discouraging him from pursuing his preferred major, which would lead to a very lucrative career. They keep telling him that it will be, at least, very difficult to focus on both football and classes, as if their immediate needs outweighs his future.h

Is this what major college sports has become?

The next time this kid/his parents ask me, I'm going to tell him to go with his chosen major and try to make it work, and then walk away from football and focus on school if not. He doesn't think that he would ever make it to the NFL, and has a good head on his shoulders.

On a related note, I wondered what our kids are majoring in these days (I know that Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management was popular once upon a time), and found that lots are enrolled in Labor & Employment Relations, which seems to lead to a career as Toby Flenderson.

I rode on a plane flight with a guy who son was interviewing for a scholarship with WVU hoops. Huggins told him you are the first recruit to show up with a mom and dad, and actually ask me about the academic side of things. Kid went on to play for Kansas. One example, but one sure more often than not , this is how it plays out. Kids think they are pro material and do not need to piss around with getting the sheepskin. Education is for chumps who can't ball.

 

[katchthis]

College degrees are the equivalent of high school diplomas these days. It's important to get a degree so that you can start work on a masters.

Unless you are an IT major.

 

[Langmuir]

I work with a young guy who recently graduated with a degree in mechanical engineering and played football for a low level D1 team. I think it really depends on the school and how serious they are about football. This should be a consideration when deciding on which school to go. If you go to Alabama, you are not going to have much time for studies.

 

[sluggo72]

I know a kid who is involved with a Division 1 football program, and he is finding that virtually everyone at the school, both inside and outside of the program, is actively discouraging him from pursuing his preferred major, which would lead to a very lucrative career. They keep telling him that it will be, at least, very difficult to focus on both football and classes, as if their immediate needs outweighs his future.

Is this what major college sports has become?

The next time this kid/his parents ask me, I'm going to tell him to go with his chosen major and try to make it work, and then walk away from football and focus on school if not. He doesn't think that he would ever make it to the NFL, and has a good head on his shoulders.

On a related note, I wondered what our kids are majoring in these days (I know that Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management was popular once upon a time), and found that lots are enrolled in Labor & Employment Relations, which seems to lead to a career as Toby Flenderson.

The kid will get out of it what he puts into it. Say for example the major involves labs, and labs are during practice time, yes he’ll get discouraged. Who’s paying the bills??
Anything with calculus, yes he’ll get discouraged
The question will be, how committed is he to his academics?? If he’s really committed, he has to put his foot down, get good grades, work his academics around practice and prove he can do both. And if he does, he won’t be discouraged anymore
Lots of examples of doing both, but certainly not the path of least resistance

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

I rode on a plane flight with a guy who son was interviewing for a scholarship with WVU hoops. Huggins told him you are the first recruit to show up with a mom and dad, and actually ask me about the academic side of things. Kid went on to play for Kansas. One example, but one sure more often than not , this is how it plays out. Kids think they are pro material and do not need to piss around with getting the sheepskin. Education is for chumps who can't ball.

Huggins himself, in addition to being an outstanding player, was also Academic All-American at WVU. I don't know why he has the reputation he does, that he discourages achievement. Now, he's paid to win, and he'll take anyone who can help him win - but he's certainly not going to pass up a player who can play AND will excel in school.

 

[GregInPitt]

Huggins himself, in addition to being an outstanding player, was also Academic All-American at WVU. I don't know why he has the reputation he does, that he discourages achievement. Now, he's paid to win, and he'll take anyone who can help him win - but he's certainly not going to pass up a player who can play AND will excel in school.

Yep. And generalizations don't work on this subject. It is an "opportunity". Some take advantage of it, some do not. Those that do not take that route for different reasons, including just not having the aptitude to do so as well as just not being committed enough to the struggle it is to excel on and off the field with the accompanying time management requirements.

 

[artsandletters]

I know a kid who is involved with a Division 1 football program, and he is finding that virtually everyone at the school, both inside and outside of the program, is actively discouraging him from pursuing his preferred major, which would lead to a very lucrative career. They keep telling him that it will be, at least, very difficult to focus on both football and classes, as if their immediate needs outweighs his future.

Is this what major college sports has become?

The next time this kid/his parents ask me, I'm going to tell him to go with his chosen major and try to make it work, and then walk away from football and focus on school if not. He doesn't think that he would ever make it to the NFL, and has a good head on his shoulders.

On a related note, I wondered what our kids are majoring in these days (I know that Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management was popular once upon a time), and found that lots are enrolled in Labor & Employment Relations, which seems to lead to a career as Toby Flenderson.

I think you mean Florence Henderson.

 

[PearlSUJam]

Unless you are an IT major.

And work at SHI stadium?

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

My brother QBed a small college team back in the fifties. He said it was the smartest bunch of guys on the team - they would quote Shakespeare in the locker room. He said that they lost 17 straight games. He told me that is when he learned to smoke and drink.

That being said, I think that the kid should major in something that he likes to do because he'll be doing that for many years after he hangs up his ... cleats.

I bet it would be fun to drink with those guys that played ball with your brother!

 

[LionsandBear]

College degrees are the equivalent of high school diplomas these days. It's important to get a degree so that you can start work on a masters.

I work in Corrections. Most people think of that as a job for big dummies with a GED or HS Diploma. However, almost all the new hires over the last 10 years have a college degree in something. I have a BS in Criminal Justice.

 

[aalion]

I was advised to take a much lesser major than I ended up in and I wasn’t a football player. My daughter has had lousy advisers telling her what she can’t do.

If you advocate for yourself, especially at a large university, you can get wherever you want. See John Urschel. If you are dumb enough to listen to someone giving advice You know is short sighted or in their best interest (i.e a coach telling you not to be in engineering cuz the workload might make football practice harder), that is on you. Call them out.

 

[katchthis]

Huggins himself, in addition to being an outstanding player, was also Academic All-American at WVU. I don't know why he has the reputation he does, that he discourages achievement. Now, he's paid to win, and he'll take anyone who can help him win - but he's certainly not going to pass up a player who can play AND will excel in school.

I don't doubt that, but few kids in top 25 D-1 college BB are focused on academics

 

[Fox Chapel Lion II]

I don't doubt that, but few kids in top 25 D-1 college BB are focused on academics

True. You can lead a horse to water, but you can't stick his head in it.

 

[ericstratton-rushchairman]

Close friend's son is an LB at Oklahoma. He takes minimum 12 credits in Fall, 16 in spring and 3-4 during summer session. He's studying criminal Justice. Plans on graduating on time. According to him his schedule is packed but it's doable.

 

[SUPERTODD]

What many people have trouble acknowledging is that the majority of DI football and basketball players would never sniff admission to these schools without their ability to play a sport. I got into Georgetown but could come nowhere close to affording it.
Allen Iverson had an opportunity to go there and get an education for free. I couldn’t get in to Cal. Desean Jackson could though?

I think we all understand that schools which are doing it “right” like Vandy, PSU, Northwestern, Duke etc are lowering their standards are a little to allow athletes in. It’s not a little though. They are lowing their standard an absurd degree to allow some of these kids in. The good schools do their best though to provide these generally sub-standard students academic support.

We take for granted at PSU that our football coach will care his kids get a college education. Outside of a tiny handful of schools the coaches could give a crap if the kids are getting a degree. For the most part, these kids know exactly who is selling what. Caveat Emptor. Don’t get mad at the crack dealer for selling you the drugs.

 

[katchthis]

Power conferences and the top majors.
https://bleacherreport.com/articles...16-power-5-conference-football-players#slide6

Hard to make much out of it. To all the kids that do letter and graduate, this Buds for you.

 

[Op2]

I think the compensation for playing should be education or job training taken at your own pace and time. You shouldn't have to go to school at all when you're playing if you don't want to. Or go part time. Or go full time. But go for real rather than a phony major.

And when you're done playing and the reality that you're not going to be a pro star hits you, you should be able to keep going and not just at where you were playing. If you're from VA and play ball in TX and when you're done you want to finish school back in VA near your family then you should get free school back in VA, with the cavaet that admissions restrictions apply based on how good a student you are.

And not everybody has to go to college. If they want job training or tech training then give them that. Whatever is helpful.

All that said, although I can justify this for f-ball and men's b-ball players I can't justify it for other sports because they don't bring in money.

 

[PearlSUJam]

I work in Corrections. Most people think of that as a job for big dummies with a GED or HS Diploma. However, almost all the new hires over the last 10 years have a college degree in something. I have a BS in Criminal Justice.

I have a BS in the same but work in a field that isn't remotely close to CJ. The money just wasn't there to pay back my student loans, so I did what I had to do and am in a better spot.

 

[Ranger Dan]

Opportunity yes, guarantee no. It’s all what you make of it. I met a guy on a flight who played D1 basketball. He blew out his ACL his first year and was done.He said that his dream was to become an electrical engineer, not play in the NBA. In his case, he didn’t settle on plan B, as his degree was plan A, but most athletes think NBA or NFL is plan A.

 

[Op2]

Opportunity yes, guarantee no. It’s all what you make of it. I met a guy on a flight who played D1 basketball. He blew out his ACL his first year and was done.He said that his dream was to become an electrical engineer, not play in the NBA. In his case, he didn’t settle on plan B, as his degree was plan A, but most athletes think NBA or NFL is plan A.

I wonder if the school let him keep going to school for free after he blew out his knee. I think scholarships are year to year rather than for 4-5 years.

 

[Big 0]

This would be a good question to ask John Urschel.

My neighbor’s nephew, son of a former OSU football player, was recruited and given a football scholarship to OSU and it was touted that he was a pre-med major. OSU won out over Stanford for his services.

However, Urban did not like that he missed a couple of unofficial, offseason “voluntary” workouts in order to study for exams and complete projects for class. He was called into Urban’s offense and basically asked if he came to play football or play school, because it had to be one or the other. Of course the other players who didn’t come to play school ratted on him. He decided to transfer and wholly regretted bypassing his Stanford offer where he likely would not have been confronted about trying to better himself academically.

 

[sluggo72]

I wonder if the school let him keep going to school for free after he blew out his knee. I think scholarships are year to year rather than for 4-5 years.

If he was injured and couldn’t play, why wouldn’t they?? Put him on medical and it doesn’t count

 

[LurkerLazarus]

This would be a good question to ask John Urschel.

My neighbor’s nephew, son of a former OSU football player, was recruited and given a football scholarship to OSU and it was touted that he was a pre-med major. OSU won out over Stanford for his services.

However, Urban did not like that he missed a couple of unofficial, offseason “voluntary” workouts in order to study for exams and complete projects for class. He was called into Urban’s offense and basically asked if he came to play football or play school, because it had to be one or the other. Of course the other players who didn’t come to play school ratted on him. He decided to transfer and wholly regretted bypassing his Stanford offer where he likely would not have been confronted about trying to better himself academically.

Sounds terrible, but really, it's not like there wasn't a whole lot of objective evidence out there on which to base his decision. Tough for him. The adults around him didn't do their job.

 

[pa108]

Sounds terrible, but really, it's not like there wasn't a whole lot of objective evidence out there on which to base his decision. Tough for him. The adults around him didn't do their job.

This is an interesting topic.
Couple of points.
1). I see top majors for psu include finance and business. These are good degrees.
2). I think one of the reasons Toutant chose Osu was they said he could take their "regular" ME program whereas psu wanted him to take a watered down program because the regular program had a significant time commitment.
3). A few years back, Osu QB was a molecular biology/ pre med major who worked summers in my friends lab. So it can be done.
4). Overall, I think all top D1 schools discourage majors with specific time commitments. Mostly STEM majors that have labs, which sometimes have crazy hours and time commitment. Other challenging majors--such as Math and business, which don't have required lab time, are more practical. So I think the concept of student athlete is still alive and well.
I know more than a few psu players who weren't NFL caliber have ended up with successful careers on Wall Street.

 

[IrishHerb]

I wonder if the school let him keep going to school for free after he blew out his knee. I think scholarships are year to year rather than for 4-5 years.

I think it depends on the school. Alabama, for example, looks like they go year to year the way Saban can remove guys from his team. At other schools its a 4 year thing.

 

[Aloha T]

I know a kid who is involved with a Division 1 football program, and he is finding that virtually everyone at the school, both inside and outside of the program, is actively discouraging him from pursuing his preferred major, which would lead to a very lucrative career. They keep telling him that it will be, at least, very difficult to focus on both football and classes, as if their immediate needs outweighs his future.

Is this what major college sports has become?

The next time this kid/his parents ask me, I'm going to tell him to go with his chosen major and try to make it work, and then walk away from football and focus on school if not. He doesn't think that he would ever make it to the NFL, and has a good head on his shoulders.

On a related note, I wondered what our kids are majoring in these days (I know that Recreation, Park, and Tourism Management was popular once upon a time), and found that lots are enrolled in Labor & Employment Relations, which seems to lead to a career as Toby Flenderson.

How about you ask Mr. Urschel this question...you get out of it what you're willing to put into it...

 

[Media Fan]

Till about a decade ago, the NCAA released academic stats for athletes- at least for football and basketball. At that time a Stanford blog provided them in an attempt to embarrass Cal Berkeley.
Those SAT scores were a disgrace to academic integrity.
You didn’t ask that - you asked if colleges provide an opportunity for a quality education. I would respond to that by saying that kids with the right attitude towards education can get a good education, but it is up to them.
Practices are limited to something like 25 or so hours a week. Toss in another 10 hours for other sports related activity. Ludicrous amount of time imo.
Assume class time is 15-20 hours a week.
That leaves approx. 113 hours for sleep and study. If a kid of whatever aptitude wants a good education — imo, if they have the right attitude, they can. If.

 

[AWS1022]

I don't know why he has the reputation he does, that he discourages achievement.

Maybe it was his 0% graduation rate at Cincinnati.

 

[Art]

Maybe it was his 0% graduation rate at Cincinnati.

Do you know what the graduation rate is for Kentucky's men's BB program? Somewhere between 80-90%.