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OT: Fascinating read on why 'experts' are almost always wrong in their forecasts.

The Spin Meister

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An altered state
Seems the more 'expert' they are the more wrong they are. The one's that get it right are the cross-disciplinary types.

The idea for the most important study ever conducted of expert predictions was sparked in 1984, at a meeting of a National Research Council committee on American-Soviet relations. The psychologist and political scientist Philip E. Tetlock was 30 years old, by far the most junior committee member. He listened intently as other members discussed Soviet intentions and American policies. Renowned experts delivered authoritative predictions, and Tetlock was struck by how many perfectly contradicted one another and were impervious to counterarguments.

Tetlock decided to put expert political and economic predictions to the test. With the Cold War in full swing, he collected forecasts from 284 highly educated experts who averaged more than 12 years of experience in their specialties. To ensure that the predictions were concrete, experts had to give specific probabilities of future events. Tetlock had to collect enough predictions that he could separate lucky and unlucky streaks from true skill. The project lasted 20 years, and comprised 82,361 probability estimates about the future.

The result: The experts were, by and large, horrific forecasters. Their areas of specialty, years of experience, and (for some) access to classified information made no difference. They were bad at short-term forecasting and bad at long-term forecasting. They were bad at forecasting in every domain. When experts declared that future events were impossible or nearly impossible, 15 percent of them occurred nonetheless. When they declared events to be a sure thing, more than one-quarter of them failed to transpire. As the Danish proverb warns, “It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.”

This is pretty profound. "Experts are usually wrong. And the more 'expertise ' they have the more likely they are wrong. It should be widely read and spark more critical thinking on just about any field dominated be 'experts.' Economics, climate change, foreign policy, education policy, social policies, and much much more.

I have a couple theories on this. What are yours?
 
There are different kinds of ‘experts.’ Opinions on recruiting classes, restaurants, what to wear, political predictions, etc. are just that, opinions. And your opinion is as good as anyone’s. Opinions based on facts and data,(like whether to vaccinate your kids) are expert opinions worth heeding, unless you have facts and data, not just opinions, to the contrary.
 
There are different kinds of ‘experts.’ Opinions on recruiting classes, restaurants, what to wear, political predictions, etc. are just that, opinions. And your opinion is as good as anyone’s. Opinions based on facts and data,(like whether to vaccinate your kids) are expert opinions worth heeding, unless you have facts and data, not just opinions, to the contrary.
Read the linked article. It is about experts making predictions in the their field of expertise, not about minor issues like recruiting or restaurants. Big issues like stock markets, results of economic policies, tax cuts/increases, foreign policy, climate change, and more.
 
This ^^^^.

Yes, bias is a contributing factor, but all of the systems they cite are incredibly complex and dynamic. Some things are just really really hard to predict because there are so many converging variables. On top of that, our brains aren’t great at pattern recognition.
 
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I worked on Wall Street for a bit. My observation was that people over analyze data and “what if” scenarios to a point where they can rationalize (and come to believe) all sorts of outcomes. In other words, they get too close to the data and the micro trends and really struggle to see and embrace macro trend. For example, based on history, the stock market will almost certainly grow over the next 10 years, but an analyst on Wall Street will see all sorts of possible outcomes. If their aunt in central PA would ask them “should they put money in the stock market,” they wouldn’t be able to give a consensus answer.

My observation is that humans don’t do a good job of weighting different variables, are often more emotional rather than objective decision makers, and, as a result, struggle to see the forest through the trees. For what it’s worth, I see us going 9-3 in the regular season next year (new QB, new RB, loss of a few studs on the d line)
 
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There are different kinds of ‘experts.’ Opinions on recruiting classes, restaurants, what to wear, political predictions, etc. are just that, opinions. And your opinion is as good as anyone’s. Opinions based on facts and data,(like whether to vaccinate your kids) are expert opinions worth heeding, unless you have facts and data, not just opinions, to the contrary.

Agree. And experts that have facts and data, but won’t share the raw data should be seriously doubted.
 
They were bad at forecasting in every domain. When experts declared that future events were impossible or nearly impossible, 15 percent of them occurred nonetheless. When they declared events to be a sure thing, more than one-quarter of them failed to transpire.

So in the first instance 85% of their predictions were correct and in the second instance 75% were correct? What am I missing? Those seem like great accuracy percentages. Is the argument that to be an “expert” one has to be perfect at predicting the future?
 
Chesterton once remarked “ that a thing can be too close to be seen “.
 
Well. I am an expert on this subject and am sorry to inform you that you are wrong
 
They were bad at forecasting in every domain. When experts declared that future events were impossible or nearly impossible, 15 percent of them occurred nonetheless. When they declared events to be a sure thing, more than one-quarter of them failed to transpire.

So in the first instance 85% of their predictions were correct and in the second instance 75% were correct? What am I missing? Those seem like great accuracy percentages. Is the argument that to be an “expert” one has to be perfect at predicting the future?
These were a subset of predictions that were said to be 'impossible' or nearly so. So if you say X is impossible and then it occurs in ten years you are pretty wrong.

Other predictions were most likely saying 'I think X will happen' or 'not happen' or saying 'odds are' or something similar. Its a whole different thing to 'X is impossible'
 
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Seems the more 'expert' they are the more wrong they are. The one's that get it right are the cross-disciplinary types.

The idea for the most important study ever conducted of expert predictions was sparked in 1984, at a meeting of a National Research Council committee on American-Soviet relations. The psychologist and political scientist Philip E. Tetlock was 30 years old, by far the most junior committee member. He listened intently as other members discussed Soviet intentions and American policies. Renowned experts delivered authoritative predictions, and Tetlock was struck by how many perfectly contradicted one another and were impervious to counterarguments.

Tetlock decided to put expert political and economic predictions to the test. With the Cold War in full swing, he collected forecasts from 284 highly educated experts who averaged more than 12 years of experience in their specialties. To ensure that the predictions were concrete, experts had to give specific probabilities of future events. Tetlock had to collect enough predictions that he could separate lucky and unlucky streaks from true skill. The project lasted 20 years, and comprised 82,361 probability estimates about the future.

The result: The experts were, by and large, horrific forecasters. Their areas of specialty, years of experience, and (for some) access to classified information made no difference. They were bad at short-term forecasting and bad at long-term forecasting. They were bad at forecasting in every domain. When experts declared that future events were impossible or nearly impossible, 15 percent of them occurred nonetheless. When they declared events to be a sure thing, more than one-quarter of them failed to transpire. As the Danish proverb warns, “It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.”

This is pretty profound. "Experts are usually wrong. And the more 'expertise ' they have the more likely they are wrong. It should be widely read and spark more critical thinking on just about any field dominated be 'experts.' Economics, climate change, foreign policy, education policy, social policies, and much much more.

I have a couple theories on this. What are yours?

Please take this opportunity to remember that the "science is settled" on global warming.
 
People ask experts to predict the unpredictable -- like the f/x in the article, for example. It is uninteresting that experts cannot predict the unpredictable. What is interesting is that other people expect them to do so, and pay them well to try. Expertise is obviously extremely important in life and society. Why people expect experts to do the impossible is the real curiosity here.
 
Seems the more 'expert' they are the more wrong they are. The one's that get it right are the cross-disciplinary types.

The idea for the most important study ever conducted of expert predictions was sparked in 1984, at a meeting of a National Research Council committee on American-Soviet relations. The psychologist and political scientist Philip E. Tetlock was 30 years old, by far the most junior committee member. He listened intently as other members discussed Soviet intentions and American policies. Renowned experts delivered authoritative predictions, and Tetlock was struck by how many perfectly contradicted one another and were impervious to counterarguments.

Tetlock decided to put expert political and economic predictions to the test. With the Cold War in full swing, he collected forecasts from 284 highly educated experts who averaged more than 12 years of experience in their specialties. To ensure that the predictions were concrete, experts had to give specific probabilities of future events. Tetlock had to collect enough predictions that he could separate lucky and unlucky streaks from true skill. The project lasted 20 years, and comprised 82,361 probability estimates about the future.

The result: The experts were, by and large, horrific forecasters. Their areas of specialty, years of experience, and (for some) access to classified information made no difference. They were bad at short-term forecasting and bad at long-term forecasting. They were bad at forecasting in every domain. When experts declared that future events were impossible or nearly impossible, 15 percent of them occurred nonetheless. When they declared events to be a sure thing, more than one-quarter of them failed to transpire. As the Danish proverb warns, “It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.”

This is pretty profound. "Experts are usually wrong. And the more 'expertise ' they have the more likely they are wrong. It should be widely read and spark more critical thinking on just about any field dominated be 'experts.' Economics, climate change, foreign policy, education policy, social policies, and much much more.

I have a couple theories on this. What are yours?
First, I disagree in making the blanket statement that 'experts' are terrible forecasters. It's the experts who are hedgehogs that are the bad forecasters. There are experts who are in the fox category. When given more access to information, the fox experts will likely do better. The ones that dig in on one idea or theory and are determined to prove it right (hedgehogs) will likely not perform as well.


Second, too many 'experts' make predictions, and too make people expect results in absolutes. "This will definitely happen"...."that is impossible". Real life is all about probabilities. I would always tend to make predictions in terms of percent chance, or at least 'likely ', 'unlikely', 'somewhat likely', etc.
In many cases, hitting predictions 75pct of the time may be great. Hell, if I'm hitting 55pct on football betting, I'm making good money.
 
They were bad at forecasting in every domain. When experts declared that future events were impossible or nearly impossible, 15 percent of them occurred nonetheless. When they declared events to be a sure thing, more than one-quarter of them failed to transpire.

So in the first instance 85% of their predictions were correct and in the second instance 75% were correct? What am I missing? Those seem like great accuracy percentages. Is the argument that to be an “expert” one has to be perfect at predicting the future?
I think what you’re missing is logic. They were INCORRECT on “impossible” and “sure thing” bets 15% and 25% of the time. So-called experts. That’s ridiculously bad.
 
Not all experts are created equally.

Screen-Shot-2016-07-26-at-2.03.54-PM.png
 
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People ask experts to predict the unpredictable -- like the f/x in the article, for example. It is uninteresting that experts cannot predict the unpredictable. What is interesting is that other people expect them to do so, and pay them well to try. Expertise is obviously extremely important in life and society. Why people expect experts to do the impossible is the real curiosity here.
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Its not about predicting the impossible. Again, that was a subset. But the record on all predictions is pretty poor.

Example; 20 years ago we were told by the 'experts' that we had hit peak oil. Oil was going to be harder to get and much more expensive hitting $150/barrel. Even higher if war broke out in the ME. Nat gas would also be very expensive hitting $15/MCF on its way to $20. That would drive up prices for food, shipping, air travel, heating, electricity, and more. The affects could be disastrous with high inflation and shortages.

But thanks to fracking there is a glut of oil and especially nat gas. Prices have fallen considerably. Even with the collapse of Venezuela, Libya, and sanctions on Iran crude oil is still low priced. And it looks like both will stay low priced for the foreseeable future.....at least according to the 'experts'!
 
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Its not about predicting the impossible. Again, that was a subset. But the record on all predictions is pretty poor.

Example; 20 years ago we were told by the 'experts' that we had hit peak oil. Oil was going to be harder to get and much more expensive hitting $150/barrel. Even higher if war broke out in the ME. Nat gas would also be very expensive hitting $15/MCF on its way to $20. That would drive prices for food, shipping, air travel, heating, electricity, and more. The affects could be disastrous with high inflation and shortages.

But thanks to fracking there is a glut of oil and especially nat gas. prices have fallen considerably. Even with the collapse of Venezuela, Libya, and sanctions on Iran crude oil is still low priced.And it looks like both will stay low priced for the foreseeable future.....at least according to the 'experts'!
Fuc#ing Experts fuc#ed up those predictions! LOL!
 
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Its not about predicting the impossible. Again, that was a subset. But the record on all predictions is pretty poor.

Example; 20 years ago we were told by the 'experts' that we had hit peak oil. Oil was going to be harder to get and much more expensive hitting $150/barrel. Even higher if war broke out in the ME. Nat gas would also be very expensive hitting $15/MCF on its way to $20. That would drive up prices for food, shipping, air travel, heating, electricity, and more. The affects could be disastrous with high inflation and shortages.

But thanks to fracking there is a glut of oil and especially nat gas. Prices have fallen considerably. Even with the collapse of Venezuela, Libya, and sanctions on Iran crude oil is still low priced. And it looks like both will stay low priced for the foreseeable future.....at least according to the 'experts'!
I do not recall "peak oil" being treated as anything but foolishness 20 years ago. Who were the mainstream, non-loon economists who predicted that scarce resources would destroy us? I remember a lot of lunacy, but not much rational basis.
 
As I read the original post I began to think about all the "experts" who offer opinions on the NFL draft and the skills and abilities of players and the needs of each team and where a player should be picked.

Then I thought about the "expert" opinions offered about high school players and ranking the experts have about them. And then what happens to those players overt the next few years.

Then I thought about he "expert" opinions offered on Saturday mornings in the fall by such experts as mushmouth and homer herbie and the legions of other "experts" employed as announcers or color commentators to explain what just happened in the last play.

Finally I went back to thinking about mushmouth and why even paying him .02 cents for his opinion on anything is a waste of money. His hiring decision must have been made by an "expert" at espn.

Then I wondered, is "expert" a synonym for asshole?

I am happy that I am not an expert at anything! Frequently, my wife tells me that my opinions are not worth anything. It is good to know your place in the world.
 
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Right, but it is not an unprecedented fact. The earth has both been warmer and had more CO2 in the atmosphere before AGW than it has right now. The Vostok core shows it. We are blessed to live in the time of a warm earth.
There have been increasing numbers of weather people disagreeing with the politically correct theory of man caused global warming. Joe Bastardi refutes the idea that hurricanes have increased in numbers or intensity in the last 50 years compared to the previous 50.
There have been so many sky is falling predictions since the 70s by scientists that have not come close to fruition that it's easy to be skeptical.
 
But why? If the science is settled, why do the experts (including a PSU prof) keep fabricating data? I'll now point you back to the OP and the early reply about agendas.
Yep, Prof. Mann was not only exposed fabricating data, but also had e-mails extolling his colleagues to do the same.
 
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Seems the more 'expert' they are the more wrong they are. The one's that get it right are the cross-disciplinary types.

The idea for the most important study ever conducted of expert predictions was sparked in 1984, at a meeting of a National Research Council committee on American-Soviet relations. The psychologist and political scientist Philip E. Tetlock was 30 years old, by far the most junior committee member. He listened intently as other members discussed Soviet intentions and American policies. Renowned experts delivered authoritative predictions, and Tetlock was struck by how many perfectly contradicted one another and were impervious to counterarguments.

Tetlock decided to put expert political and economic predictions to the test. With the Cold War in full swing, he collected forecasts from 284 highly educated experts who averaged more than 12 years of experience in their specialties. To ensure that the predictions were concrete, experts had to give specific probabilities of future events. Tetlock had to collect enough predictions that he could separate lucky and unlucky streaks from true skill. The project lasted 20 years, and comprised 82,361 probability estimates about the future.

The result: The experts were, by and large, horrific forecasters. Their areas of specialty, years of experience, and (for some) access to classified information made no difference. They were bad at short-term forecasting and bad at long-term forecasting. They were bad at forecasting in every domain. When experts declared that future events were impossible or nearly impossible, 15 percent of them occurred nonetheless. When they declared events to be a sure thing, more than one-quarter of them failed to transpire. As the Danish proverb warns, “It is difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.”

This is pretty profound. "Experts are usually wrong. And the more 'expertise ' they have the more likely they are wrong. It should be widely read and spark more critical thinking on just about any field dominated be 'experts.' Economics, climate change, foreign policy, education policy, social policies, and much much more.

I have a couple theories on this. What are yours?

. "Experts", become hardened in their views and aren't open to changing input
. RE long term forecasts, they are terrible at understanding the law of unintended consequences
. while they may be an expert in their field they do not anticipate changing technology
 
I worked on Wall Street for a bit. My observation was that people over analyze data and “what if” scenarios to a point where they can rationalize (and come to believe) all sorts of outcomes. In other words, they get too close to the data and the micro trends and really struggle to see and embrace macro trend. For example, based on history, the stock market will almost certainly grow over the next 10 years, but an analyst on Wall Street will see all sorts of possible outcomes. If their aunt in central PA would ask them “should they put money in the stock market,” they wouldn’t be able to give a consensus answer.

My observation is that humans don’t do a good job of weighting different variables, are often more emotional rather than objective decision makers, and, as a result, struggle to see the forest through the trees. For what it’s worth, I see us going 9-3 in the regular season next year (new QB, new RB, loss of a few studs on the d line)

Your point about human emotion is especially valid with regard to Wall Street. You can find numerous articles almost daily from stock market "experts" telling us an inevitable bear market will cause a loss to make 1929 look like child's play.

Unfortunately, investors both large and small, experienced or neophytes, believe the worst, panic-sell, and make those predictions appear to be true. Until cooler heads prevail and the market recovers. Hmmm......I wonder if any of those experts ever thinks there might be money to be made by such a scheme...
 
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