Misder, to whom are you referring when you say "them"? TSM or PSU? By the way, good to see your posts again.
OT: FYI, JZ says Newsweek article is still a go. (edit: Story now spiked)
- Thread starter MtNittany
- Start date
So Fran garner was a non factor in 03? I wonder why he was still listed as oc
I still would like to hear from him about this whole thing. Not a peep that I’ve heard from him. That’s kind of stunning.
Let me be more specific. When Jay was the QB coach and there was no OC until Hall was hired. There was also no DC or OL coach. We had a normal staff until Joe got old and decided to do away
those mentioned for some reason known only to him.
I’m not sure how it’s stretch when it’s exactly what you laid out: They didn’t want to ruin Sandusky’s charity over an ambiguous report.
It is pretty interesting he has steered clear of this as well as many others that were around.
Ganter was OC in '03, Hall in 04. What time period are you discussing?
Here’s what I replied to:Just when I thought no one was still clinging to this nonsense...
“Their actions were intended to protect PSU in the future, without hurting Sandusky's reputation or TSM in the present. It was "humane and a reasonable way to proceed".”
That’s literally what I said. You guys just don’t want to admit politics played a role. Making an honest mistake that was influenced by a political motive is possible.
If that's your take on Joe, one can only imagine what you think it says about Jim Harbaugh with his brother on staff. Add in the sleepovers and that should be enough to secure a warrant for arrest. Oh, and Jay was recruiting coordinator for 1999's No. 1-ranked recruiting class and produced two Big Ten Offensive Player of the Year QBs. Hate him all you want but them's the facts.
That's patently untrue. Ganter was the OC/Assistant Head Coach prior to Galen Hall be hired.
Of course politics played a role, Corbett and Spanier were feuding over funding cuts. I just don't want to hear any nonsense about the sex faire. You guys just don't want to admit that it's possible that C/S/S did the right thing, and were going to be thrown under the bus regardless.
Here are some parts of a Ganter deposition. Sorry, no link. It was in a filing that was only public very briefly.
(after 2009 TSM golf outing which Sandusky did not attend)
A. [Sandusky said] “I'm really sorry about the position I put you in on Saturday - - or on Friday and I know everybody was asking you where I was and I feel really bad about not showing up, but I've got to tell you a couple of things.” Then [Sandusky] sat down in the chair right across from me and he said, “You're going to be hearing some things about me and they're not true. I'm here to tell you right now they are not true. And you're going to hear some, a lot of stuff. And I did nothing wrong and I just want to make sure that you knew. That's, that's what you're going to be up against. You're going to hear all of this stuff and I may call on you down the road to act as a character witness.” And I [Fran Ganter] said, “whatever you want.” As he was telling me the story, I remember saying, “You don't have to tell me all this. I don't, I don't need to know anything.”
...............
A. Tom Bradley, who's a very close friend, a former player, he became the defensive coordinator after Gerry left. He roomed with Mike [McQueary]. He, many times in my office after this broke would just, you know, kind of spew on how terrible, oh, yeah, Gerry this and, you know, all those years with The Second Mile… [Tom] was very sympathetic to Mike [McQueary] because they were roommates and he came in one day and this is after everything is out and he said, “What's he still doing down there? What's Gerry still doing down there?” And I'd usually just let him talk. I never really got into much with him. And then he said, “Do you know how that makes Mike feel?” And at the time you knew, at that time I knew Mike had testified and I didn't know specifics and all that kind of stuff… And then Mike came in maybe three, two weeks later and said the same thing. He said, “Do you know, sometimes I don't even want to come in here [PSU Campus] because I'm afraid I'm going to bump into Gerry… Would you call Mr. Curley and see if we can get him out of the building? Because I'm uncomfortable…” He left. I called Tim Curley.
...................
Q. As of the time that the grand jury, that you became aware that there was a grand jury –
A. Aware of, yes.
Q. And you were aware that they were investigating Gerry Sandusky, right?
A. Right.
Q. And as of this point in time you were also aware that he [ Sandusky] had been removed from –
A. Right.
Q. - - a position at the school? [Central Mountain High School – Sandusky was an Assistant Football Coach and let go in 2009 for inappropriate contact with a student]
A. Yep.
Q. A local area high school?
A. Yes.
Q. For allegedly inappropriate contact with a minor. Okay?
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. So now you are sitting in a role of assistant athletic director and you have an individual who has continued access to the locker room and to the football facilities at Penn State University.
A. Mm-hmm.
Q. My question is: What action, if any, did you do from Penn State's side, investigate and make sure that it was safe for this man to have continued access to the Penn State facilities?
A. I don't know the time. It was after Central Mountain, after it became I mean a topic of discussion everywhere you went. Tom called me one morning and said, “Hey, can you go see Gerry? Do you see Gerry down there?”
[I said] “No, not much. He works out in the morning.” [Tim Curley said] “Can you see him and tell him we got to get the key back, get his key back?”. So, the next morning I went out to the weight room and told Gerry that they wanted the key back, by “they,” Tim [Curley]. And he [Sandusky] said “Well, how about let me think on that? And I'll leave it with J.T. tomorrow morning,” who's the strength coach. The next morning I went to see J.T. [and] Gerry didn't leave him the key. I waited until the next day. Gerry came in. I said, “What's the deal?” And he said that “My lawyer, I asked my lawyer's advice and he said if I gave up the key to the weight room that would be like I was guilty of something, I would be admitting something, and I don't want to give it back.” So, I went right upstairs, called Tim, told him and he said all right. He hung up.
Ten minutes later I got a phone call that we cannot take his key; he's a professor emeritus and we don't - - he hasn't been charged with anything, that sort of thing, so don't, you know, don't worry - - they said don't worry about it but let it rest.
Q. Who said that to you? Tim Curley?
A. Cynthia Baldwin.
If anything, JZ's new date is CLOSER to the Cu>tfest (which preceded sexfaire) and was what got Lawless all riled up.
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_57e3888e-a1ef-5664-b7e3-89613ac74b36.html
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_57e3888e-a1ef-5664-b7e3-89613ac74b36.html
When PSU and the state were feuding over funding cuts... he most certainly was. How many links do you want?
http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_d5928c62-e640-5df6-a6b9-295e93b10a71.html
http://notpsu.blogspot.com/2018/01/no-coincidence-part-1-corbetts-feud.html
http://www.post-gazette.com/news/st...et-plan-cuts-866-million/stories/201103090445
http://www.pennlive.com/midstate/index.ssf/2011/03/corbetts_proposed_higher-educa.html
I am talking about politics playing a role in the take down of C/S/S, the thing that actually happened... I'm not talking about the feud playing a role in not reporting. Maybe read a little more carefully before posting next time?
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Thanks Jimmy. I hadn't seen that before. I appreciate you sharing.
The part I highlighted in red in particularly interesting to me.
Please take this opportunity to remember that michigan got their ass handed to them by Villanova.
It started here: http://www.collegian.psu.edu/archives/article_3c0ca28a-b8b9-5b72-84e3-c016543cf9e3.html
This was a budget war that started due to to sex faires. Corbett inherited it. Spanier was arguing this in Harrisburg contemporaneously with the 2001 Sandusky discussions/emails.
Corbett covered all the bases.
"We must keep in mind, when it comes to the safety of children, there can be no margin of error, no hesitation to act," Corbett said.
He also addressed several remarks to Penn State students, thousands of whom were involved in a riot in State College. Many expressed strong opposition to Paterno's ouster.
"Please, please behave and demonstrate your pride in Penn State," Corbett said before television cameras. "Your actions speak much louder than your words."
While he supports students' right to assemble, Corbett said, he denounces the violence. Those who use violence -- that is, rioting -- to make a point are "knuckleheads," he said.
"Show solidarity with the victims. Come together," Corbett said. " ... There are greater alternatives (to) violence."
Right now, he said, Pennsylvania needs to focus on identifying Sandusky's alleged sex-abuse victims. He called on any victims who haven't stepped forward to reach out to authorities.
"We need to protect children. We need to act," the governor said. He has seen many times people with power who believe "they're beyond the law," he went on.
Among Corbett's other comments Thursday:
- A reporter posed a question about The Second Mile, the nonprofit founded by Sandusky. He is alleged to have had made contact with victims through the organization.
- In a recent trustees-board meeting, Corbett said, he made a point to emphasize that "we must remember" the alleged victims in the Sandusky case.
'Who was governor during the sex faires' is off topic distraction.
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Thanks, Jimmy. Never saw that transcript until now. It affirms that Mike was complaining about Jerry's presence on campus AFTER Mike testified to the grand jury (rather than complaining throughout all those years after he reported up to CSSP).
You can't tell his truth because you don't know it. Sure, you all know what kind of man you knew him to be and you can speculate how little you believe he knew--all understandable. But he is not here to refute or confirm anything and those three administrators did nothing to clarify his role. What are you fighting with? If anybody had concrete proof to refute anything that has been said in the media it would have been brought forward by now or put out there on public display for all to see. You're speculation vs the media's speculation. And I'm not taking sides here, but some of you don't realize when your actions have become even more damaging to the person you wish to clear. Don't you think the Paterno family would be screaming from the rafters if they thought it would make a difference??
Miss Cynthia, yet again. "Let it rest". Perfect.
Between her, Garban, Surma, Peetz, Masser, et. al., could the BOT have been in worse hands when a crisis hit? (Hint: No.)
These "leaders" would have had us hiding under our desks with our eyes closed for extra safety when the big one was landing a mile away. That is essentially what they did, come to think of it.
Seems MM suddenly got uncomfortable about running into Jerry after he testified.....about 10 years after "the incident." Could it be he felt guilty?
If MM saw JS sodomizing a boy, wouldn't JS feel embarrassed about running into MM?
If MM saw JS sodomizing a boy, wouldn't JS feel embarrassed about running into MM?
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Thanks @Bob78, you had to go and mention Garban, Surma, Peetz, Masser, et. al., leading me to dig into my files again /end snark/
Here’s a smattering of deposition extracts. Again, no link for much the same reason. Even the ones from Corman suit, since those depositions aren’t on-line anymore. However, there’s some stuff at the bottom from a press conference that’s still probably on YouTube.
### Karen Peetz Deposition
Q. It starts [Miss Peetz statement regarding the Freeh Report]: “Today's comprehensive [Freeh] report is sad and sobering in that it concludes that at the moment of truth, people in positions of authority and responsibility did not put the welfare of children first.” Do you see that?
A. I do.
Q. Do you agree with that?
A. Yes.
Q. “The Board of Trustees, as the group that has paramount accountability for overseeing and ensuring the proper functioning and governance of the university, accepts full responsibility for the failures that occurred.” Do you see that?
A. Yes.
Q. Do you agree with that statement?
A. Yes.
Q. And accepting full responsibility for the failures that occurred, that means endangering the welfare of children, doesn't it?
A. I think what it means is that as the senior most body of the university, where the president reports to the board of the university, that it is very important that we step up and say: The buck stops here. We accept responsibility and accountability.
............
Q. When you made the statement that “The Board of Trustees… accepts full responsibility for the failures that occurred” - -
A. Yes.
Q. - - You were at that moment in time, July 12th, 2012, the chairman of the Board of Trustees of Penn State University; were you not?
A. Correct.
Q. When you made that statement were you authorized to make it?
A. Yes.
..............
Q. On July 23rd, 2012, Mr. Erickson signed a consent decree, as the president of the university, with the NCAA. Are you familiar with that?
A. Yes.
Q. Mr. Erickson had the authority to sign that consent decree, the legal authority; isn't that correct?
A. That is correct.
### James Broadhurst Deposition
Q. And who are those, who are those individuals who failed?
A. These are the senior officers that were previously mentioned, Graham Spanier, Gary Schultz, Tim Curley.
Q. And Joe Paterno?
A. And Joe Paterno.
............
Q. “Four of the most powerful people at The Penn State University -- Graham B. Spanier, Senior Vice-President –Finance and Business Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno – failed to protect against a sexual predator harming children for over a decade. These men concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well-being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001. Further, they exposed this child to additional harm by alerting Sandusky, who was the only one who knew the child's identity, of what McQueary saw in the shower on the night of February 9, 2001.”
Do you accept that finding by Judge Freeh?
A. I accept the failures of these individuals as reported by Judge Freeh.
### Ken Frazier Deposition
Q. And after reading the Freeh Report and after looking at the evidence that was attached to the Freeh Report, you believed that the University needed to accept responsibility for children being harmed. Isn't that accurate?
A. In fact, I said that as a Board of Trustees, as the highest entity entitled to act on behalf of the University, we were accepting responsibility and accountability for failures that occurred. I remember saying that.
### Anne Riley Deposition
Q. You know, I've been thinking about this. Maybe you can help me out particularly because you have been a teacher and involved with education for a good part of your life and Penn State. Beaver Stadium, Penn State has just not Pennsylvania relevance. It's got national attention and to some extent absolutely well deserved. But here you have a pedophile who was using the facilities bringing young, typically troubled, sometimes parent-less or single parent, young boys to the stadium, probably from their point of view for the time of their life, an opportunity to be with well-known people at a well-known institution.
As you look back on it now, just as a reflection, don't you think that enabled, allowing that to happen, using Penn State's facilities helped enable Sandusky to commit his crimes?
A. Yes.
### Steve Garban Deposition
Q. That when you used - - I'm going to read it again [Mr. Garban's resignation letter as chairman of the board of trustees]: “The Board of Trustees accepted responsibility for the failures of governance that took place on our watch.” What period of time did you mean when you wrote that sentence?
A. My view is it meant all the time I was on the board.
Q. Meaning 1998 through and including 2012?
A. Well, that's what I was referring to, yes.
............
Q. Now let me read the last paragraph on that page [letter the PSU Board of Trustees put out on the day the Freeh Report was released] and it goes over to the back: “The Board of Trustees acknowledges that it failed to create an environment of accountability and transparency and did not have optimal reporting procedures or committee structures.” Is that an accurate statement of the board's position at that time”
A. Yes.
............
Q. The next sentence, actually the next paragraph, quote, “The Board of Trustees, as the group that has paramount responsibility for overseeing and ensuring the proper functioning and governance of the University, accepts full responsibility for the failures cited in the Free Report.” You agree with that, do you not?
A. Yes.
### Frank Guadagnino Deposition (7/28/2017)
When asked whether 'they' could have informed TSM of the 1998 police investigation, Guadagnino - a current member of PSU's General counsel's office - replied:
"I don't know the specifics of the law"
### Rodney Erickson Deposition (Corman, p.283)
Q. So I am just right about it in my head, are you aware of any time that the full Board of Trustees accepted the Freeh Report?
A. No, the Board of Trustees has never formally accepted the report. They received it.
### Ken Frazier Deposition (Corman, p.15, 32, 94,95,96)
Q. Why did you think that was the right thing to do?
A. Because at that time there were pending legal proceedings, we had a grand jury presentment, but my feeling at the time was that the grand jury presentment was not equivalent to a determination about what the real facts were.
......
we were scrambling to deal with the public fallout
......
Q. Did you personally have any issues or concerns with the inferences that Judge Freeh drew in his report?
A. Yes.
Q. Can you explain what those issues or concerns were?
A. Judge Freeh reached some conclusions about the motivation of individuals at Penn State....
.... From my perspective, as I sit here today and as I sat there then, I continued to believe that human motivation is an extremely complex subject that has multiple layers. And so as it relates to the conclusions about why people did or did not do what they did, I believe there are multiple ways to explain that. I am not saying that the conclusions he drew were unreasonable. I am simply saying that there are other reasonable inferences that could be drawn from that....
.... I can't say his conclusions were wrong. I don't believe they were unreasonable. I just don't think they are as clear and irrefutable as some people seem to think they are.
### Keith Masser Deposition (Corman, p.53-57)
A. I won't agree that he was fired either.
Q. Okay. How would you describe it?
A. He was removed from his duties as head football coach.
.........
Q. Did you ultimately vote in favor of removing Coach Paterno from his duties?
A. I did.
..........
Q. Do you know if anyone had interviewed Coach Paterno prior to that decision being made? [He never actually answers this question]
A. The decision to remove Coach Paterno had nothing to do with what he had known, what he hadn't done. It was based upon the distraction of having him on the sidelines would have caused the University and the harm to the current football team. It had nothing to do with what Coach Paterno had done or hadn't done.
Q. Did you believe that the Board had enough information at that point in time to make the decision it made?
............
Q. But you believe that was sufficient time to make the decision that you all made?
A. Yes.
### Surma - Press Conference Q&A 11/9/2011
MEDIA: John, to what extent was the board caught off guard by coach Paterno’s retirement announcement, and did that influence at all the step you took tonight?
SURMA: I don’t know what off guard means. It was a piece of information that arose at the point. It didn’t really have, I don’t think, any effect on what we did tonight. So there’s really not much I can say about that.
MEDIA: Was this in the works yesterday, as “The New York Times” reported? Was there a plan being formulated yesterday?
SURMA: Well, we had been discussing the matters at issue and our response to them on a very regular basis en banc, on the phone, in person, since this occurred.
......
MEDIA: But does the board believe there was any wrong done here, and if so…
SURMA: The board doesn’t know that and no one else does either. This is very early in the process. The facts are not established. The board doesn’t really know that any more than anyone else does. And we will of course respect the law enforcement process that is still under way.
........
MEDIA: What should Joe Paterno have done originally…
(CROSSTALK)
SURMA: Oh, I’m not — I have no idea how to answer that question and don’t intend to.
........
MEDIA: “What did you learn in the last several days that you didn’t already know which would cause you to make this decision [to fire Paterno] today instead of a week or days ago? Some of this information has been out there for awhile.”
SURMA: “The board deliberative process is, as it implies, a process that requires some time. There was information we sought, although we don’t know any more about the actual details than the grand jury report and whatever you all [the media] write. We were working through the not entirely consistent processes of wanting to act swiftly and decisively but also to be thorough and fair, and that resulted in these actions.”
First I was replying to someone who said we should accept that Joe’s legacy is what it was made to be and we cannot change it. I was not trying to tell what the truth “is” only that the truth should come out. I don’t really give a sh*t if 10 people believe it or 10 million believe the truth, but it should be known. I don’t agree with the move on crowd, I want to know the truth.
Oh, the guy who probably knows what the truth is( at least more than most) is Frank Fina and if you remember he stated that he could find NO evidence that JVP did anything wrong. He also had subpoena power unlike Louie the Liar. The reason I call Freeh that is because of the numerous times he has been proven to have done so. Remember how he grandstanded about “finding the secret file”.
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Freeh has gone on record labeling his labor of love (love of money) as his opinion. His opinion is influenced by money (Louis never met a buck he didn't want). The best thing I can call Freeh is a fraud.
What he found and concluded were a vast mystery and money grab.
The report, as expected, is quite damning for Penn State. From the first part of the executive summary:
“The most saddening finding by the Special Investigative Counsel is the total and consistent disregard by the most senior leaders at Penn State for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims…
Four of the most powerful people at The Pennsylvania State University—President Graham B. Spanier, Senior Vice President-Finance Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno—failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade. These men concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well-being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001.”
The report, as expected, is quite damning for Penn State. From the first part of the executive summary:
“The most saddening finding by the Special Investigative Counsel is the total and consistent disregard by the most senior leaders at Penn State for the safety and welfare of Sandusky's child victims…
Four of the most powerful people at The Pennsylvania State University—President Graham B. Spanier, Senior Vice President-Finance Gary C. Schultz, Athletic Director Timothy M. Curley and Head Football Coach Joseph V. Paterno—failed to protect against a child sexual predator harming children for over a decade. These men concealed Sandusky's activities from the Board of Trustees, the University community and authorities. They exhibited a striking lack of empathy for Sandusky's victims by failing to inquire as to their safety and well-being, especially by not attempting to determine the identity of the child who Sandusky assaulted in the Lasch Building in 2001.”
I know I have the clown on ignore . . . but does anyone else, when jerot post, hear in their head:
"I AM JEROOT!"
"I AM JEROOT!"
Here is a link to the Newsweek story that didn't run. It would have been a bombshell! Some of the highlights of the story include the following
- The real story of the “boy in the shower,” whom the prosecution cynically pretended never existed because his words and actions blow apart McQueary’s credibility.
- Strong evidence that the entire timeline provided by McQueary and the prosecution, radically altered once because they got it very wrong, is likely still drastically off, thus dramatically changing the entire narrative of what really happened.
- Documents indicating that Louis Freeh’s own team did not believe that the highly influential conclusions of the “Freeh Report” were supported by legitimate evidence. As seen here, even one of his own employees wrote "NO EVIDENCE AT ALL!" over the very first paragraph of the Freeh Group's internal work product about the supposed "Penn State Football Culture" causing the "cover up."
- A new email demonstrating that the reporter who broke the story, Sara Ganim, who eventually won a Pulitzer Prize, was receiving, largely inaccurate, leaks from the attorney general’s office in order to directly impact the investigation.
- Leaked settlement documents, which for the first time reveal which Sandusky accusers Penn State paid and how much, proving at least two of the key accusers at Sandusky’s trial told dramatically different stories for millions of dollars than they did under oath at trial.
- The identities of the accusers from the 1970s, who reportedly claimed they informed Joe Paterno of their abuse, reveal their stories are not to be remotely believed and were not given real credibility even by Penn State officials willing to believe almost anything.
- A new, secret, and extraordinary interview with, Ira Lubert (which can be heard at around the 43-minute mark of this podcast), the Penn State trustee in charge of the settlements which raises legitimate questions as to whether even he thinks that anyone in this mess is actually guilty and makes it clear even he thinks at least some of the accusers he paid are lying.
- Interviews with numerous people very close to key accusers which create extreme doubt about the already suspect stories for which they were paid many millions of dollars.
- The existence of five key accusers from the tiny town of Lock Haven, who accounted for $35 million in settlements, even though only one of them was a trial accuser.
- The existence of a three-year “sting” operation, complete with extensive documentation, on the key lawyer and therapist in the case, resulting in a purposely fake accuser, with a laughably absurd story, being totally embraced during over 100 meetings, all paid for by Penn State.
- Never-seen medical records showing that it likely would have been impossible for Sandusky to commit the acts which were claimed against him during the critical time period, as well as inconceivable that not even one of the thirty-six victims whom Penn State paid to have not mentioned a “distinguishing characteristic” of his genitalia.
I’m most interested in learning more about Sandusky’s medical records and what exactly they prove. The people close to Fisher who think he’s lying cast doubt on his story, but this could actually prove its BS. And Aaron’s story crumbles, all others must follow.
How ironic. People like you have spent the last two years arguing that Ziegler has made up the story of the fake accuser, but your comment has just proven he may have had good reason to withhold his identity
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