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OT: FYI, JZ says Newsweek article is still a go. (edit: Story now spiked)

And if Jack was told of an incident serious enough to cause PSU to revoke Jerry's guest privileges, what were his legal and professional obligations?

I don't think JR was told of a serious incident. Whether, as untrained professionals, they were worried that a minor was using their facilities and could be hurt (say lifting weights), or that their use of the facilities could lead to a false CSA report... lots of options for reporting to TSM that don't include a report of something serious. JR was the trained professional who needed to do more than just take what he was told at face value.
 
I don’t have a scenario. Indy is saying that fear of a civil suit is a good reason to not make a call to report. I am saying that making a call in good faith protects you legally.
If you are saying that you should not make reports of abuse when you don’t think it happened, I agree with you. But that is separate from what Indy is saying.

I'm saying that if a report was made, it could have provided the ammunition that an Andrew Shubin might have turned into an easy pay day. So if the only reason to make the report was to cover PSU's butt, I'm questioning whether it would have even had the intended effect. PSU still gave Jerry the use of its facilities. It was written into his retirement package.
 
Franco, while you and I will not agree with much, I think at least most times you try to be kind ... maybe not right word... you try to be understanding in your approach. Thank you.

I do not have any reason to believe that is the case.

The same goes for the myth that my father was out of town when mike called the house that night.

If I may I would like to make sure that I u derstabd two things from your view point.

First you believe strongly that js may suffer from a condition that has rendered him impotent since at least 2008?

Second you believe mr Pendergast book is based on very truthful factual statements and information?

Thanks and I get if you don’t answer. I certainly don’t answer everyone or everything.
Dukie, at this point I have no idea what to believe. If you feel comfortable, I'll turn your two questions to Franco around. What are your specific reasons for disputing these assertions? Just want to get your perspective. Thanks in advance. And like Franco, I respect your posting style.
 
Also, even if you can’t accept that Sandusky may be innocent, it should be extremely clear that the ONE incident that JoePA was demonized for was complete BS. That concerns the 2001 (or more likely 2000) incident in which Mike McQueary complained about Jerry being in the shower with a boy, then became convinced he saw a sexual assault 10 years later (despite telling JoePa he was alright with how the incident was handled and continuing to support Sandusky’s charity by playing in its golf fundraisers). The boys name was Allan Myers. He was a straight married Marine who defended Jerry even after his arrest. Only after getting a DUI and having his career prospects devastated did his attorney get him to file a claim against PSU (and tampered with him when questioned by prosecutors so he wouldn’t even have to testify at trial). Yet the OAG is still holding to the absolutely absurd fable that the “McQueary Victim” is known only to God. You don’t have to believe Jerry is completely innocent to call Bullshit on that.
Any shred of credibility Allan Myers may have had was destroyed after reading this ...

http://www.bigtrial.net/2017/09/boy-in-shower-says-he-cant-remember-34.html
 
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Nit...

I am not disputing anything. I just wanted to make sure I understand some of Francis beliefs as I do miss posts and info. I don’t like to assume I know his stance on those two questions.
 
Why indeed? That's why I now believe everyone acted appropriately in '01, including MM and JR.

LOL, so why do you bring up Jack at all? What was he to report and why did they bother to tell him if it was nothing at all....again...you like having it both ways. There was nothing at all to report, but MM's father and Doc D felt the need to tell Joe. Joe felt the need to tell TC. It then went up the flag pole and over to TSM, but it was nothing at all. Do you report nothing at all to your superiors? I sure as hell don't as I don't waste their time with that, but hey....they were just being nice I guess. It worked out well....by not documenting it.
 
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1. Write a letter to the editor praising Sandusky
2. Make a statement in support of Sandusky in the presence of his attorney.
3. Change your story at least 3 or 4 times when you speak to the cops
4. Hook up with Shubin
5. Praise the Lord I remember
6. Go all off the grid during the trial
7. Cash a big check
8. Say I don't recall or remember 34 times during JS appeal hearing.

This is the kind of thing that brought JVP and PSU down?
 
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Nit...

I am not disputing anything. I just wanted to make sure I understand some of Francis beliefs as I do miss posts and info. I don’t like to assume I know his stance on those two questions.
OK, fair enough. Thanks.
 
Franco, while you and I will not agree with much, I think at least most times you try to be kind ... maybe not right word... you try to be understanding in your approach. Thank you.

I do not have any reason to believe that is the case.

The same goes for the myth that my father was out of town when mike called the house that night.

If I may I would like to make sure that I u derstabd two things from your view point.

First you believe strongly that js may suffer from a condition that has rendered him impotent since at least 2008?

Second you believe mr Pendergast book is based on very truthful factual statements and information?

Thanks and I get if you don’t answer. I certainly don’t answer everyone or everything.

Thanks for your "kind" words. I do appreciate it. I also appreciated when you wished me safe travels when I was coming home from a business trip to China.

In response to your questons:

1. I believe that Sandusky suffers from hypogonadism. My understanding is that his primary care physician diagnosed him with hypogonadism around the 2008 time frame and that he had the condition since puberty. Joe Amendola supposedly had the medical report before trial but apparently didn't understand the significance of being able to use the information to help his client's defense.

2. I believe that Mark Pendergrast's book "The Most Hated Man in America: Jerry Sandusky and the Rush to Judgment" is largely accurate and based on truthful information. It has gotten good reviews from most everybody that has read it (of 54 reviews on Amazon - 50 gave 5 stars and 4 gave 4 stars).

Have you read Mark's book? Do you have any thoughts on any of the content or the accuracy of what he wrote?
 
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Thank you, I just wanted to make sure I understood your thoughts stance etc.

I have not the book at this point.
 
Thank you, I just wanted to make sure I understood your thoughts stance etc.

I have not the book at this point.

You are welcome. Please ask me anything. I may not have the most popular opinion, but I am willing to share my thoughts and opinions. I don’t believe there is anyone who has all of the answers in this story. If they believe that they do, they are probably fooling themselves.
 
This sounds like the same old Z narrative. Jerry is guilty. People need to accept that and move on. He’s as guilty as the work week is long. You can blame the legal system, political conspiracies or incompetent defense teams, but the fact remains that this all happened because Jerry is guilty of doing awful things.

JoePa, by virtue of what happened, was never going to skate. Yes, he was railroaded and it wasn’t fair, but it was always going to happen. Trying to undo this after the fact has been counter productive and, if anything, has hurt Joe’s legacy.
There is no 'statute of limitations' on seeking the truth.
 
LOL, so why do you bring up Jack at all? What was he to report and why did they bother to tell him if it was nothing at all....again...you like having it both ways. There was nothing at all to report, but MM's father and Doc D felt the need to tell Joe. Joe felt the need to tell TC. It then went up the flag pole and over to TSM, but it was nothing at all. Do you report nothing at all to your superiors? I sure as hell don't as I don't waste their time with that, but hey....they were just being nice I guess. It worked out well....by not documenting it.

I bring up Jack because of the stark contrast between how he and C/S/S have been treated both legally and in the media. And I bring him up because if anyone had a professional and legal obligation to look into the matter more thoroughly, it was Captain Swim Trunks.

PSU had no real authority over or responsibility for Jerry. Jack did!

I never said it was nothing at all. What I've said is that it was a lawsuit waiting to happen and all it would have taken was one angry mom. You'd think that Jack would have seen that risk as well.

BTW, what would documenting it have accomplished?
 
You are welcome. Please ask me anything. I may not have the most popular opinion, but I am willing to share my thoughts and opinions. I don’t believe there is anyone who has all of the answers in this story. If they believe that they do, they are probably fooling themselves.

Franco, can you explain the significance of hypogonadism as it relates to this case?
 
Franco, can you explain the significance of hypogonadism as it relates to this case?
Essentially, he couldn't get it up and has low sex drive. Also, his junk may not look look normal. So any of the accusers saying he had a hard-on or normal looking junk are probably not being truthful.
 
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Are you serious? Did you really type that or you really don't know? If so, it makes a lot of sense why you post the things you do.
What could they have documented that isn't clearly spelled out by their notes and emails? Had they documented everything, I'm sure that record would have been used to hang them just the same. In fact, I'm sure the prosecution would have used it to prove their dirty "conspiracy".

JVP followed the letter of the law and still had taken away from him what he valued most!
 
What could they have documented that isn't clearly spelled out by their notes and emails? Had they documented everything, I'm sure that record would have been used to hang them just the same. In fact, I'm sure the prosecution would have used it to prove their dirty "conspiracy".

JVP followed the letter of the law and still had taken away from him what he valued most!

They could have gotten MM on record, hmmmmm how would that have helped them? I leave that there...you think about it, and get back to me.
 
They could have gotten MM on record, hmmmmm how would that have helped them? I leave that there...you think about it, and get back to me.
well, knowing what YEAR it happened might have been a good start.

images
 
I think JS is guilty of doing inappropriate things with kids. I don't think MM saw him rape a kid in the Lasch Building because that would be nearly impossible while standing and MM testified that the boy wasn't in distress. I also don't believe half of the accusers. These are largely low income kids that were promised a big paycheck for changing their story after going through repressed memory therapy.

I also don't think that MM told PSU administrators very much more than inappropriate horseplay. The media and even our legal system would have you believe that MM told things to C/S/P that he wouldn't even tell his own parents or Dranov. That makes zero sense.

Don't get me wrong. C/S handled things very poorly. They didn't even document MM's report or their response. That's inexcusable. I'm even OK with those who say Joe should have done more to follow up. But knowingly allow a pedophile to assault children for more than a decade? That's absurd.

FWIW I think the Nassar situation at MSU is similar. The administration probably didn't take reports seriously and didn't respond to them adequately. No excuse. But I do nit think they knowingly allowed a sex abuser to assault women. Makes no sense.

I pretty much agree with what you said. The lesson in all of this is that if you are a mandatory reporter, you report, no matter how far fetched or how unbelievable you may think the accusation. Your job is done when you report. The sad thing in all of this, is that Joe reported to his superiors which was what he was supposed to do at that time. His superiors dropped the ball.
 
If MM only reported horseplay/inappropriate behavior, and PSU took preventive measures, including reporting the incident to the child care professional responsible for both the boy's well being and Jerry's behavior, why does the buck stop with them? Why isn't Jack Raykovitz the one on the hot seat?

A grown man showering with a juvenile should have been reported with or without horseplay, especially considering that police investigated Sandusky previously for the same thing.
 
I pretty much agree with what you said. The lesson in all of this is that if you are a mandatory reporter, you report, no matter how far fetched or how unbelievable you may think the accusation. Your job is done when you report. The sad thing in all of this, is that Joe reported to his superiors which was what he was supposed to do at that time. His superiors dropped the ball.
I didn't know Curley or Schultz were mandatory reporters. I'm pretty sure Dranov would have been and likely Raykovitz, since he worked for CYS part time.
 
A grown man showering with a juvenile should have been reported with or without horseplay, especially considering that police investigated Sandusky previously for the same thing.
Well, this was Sandusky's move. And I've done some volunteer work and people would talk about having to teach fatherless boys how to groom. So JS mastered the art of that balance between creepy and illegal. And, we have to understand, that the connection to the Catholic Church scandal didn't happen until after the 2001 JS incident (there were separate claims, but the shocking institutionalization at the church didn't happen until later in 2001 with this pulitzer prize winning series of articles from the Boston Globe paper). My point being that a lot of things changed after 2001, in terms of how these things were handled. Much of the "mandatory reporting" best practices guidelines didn't happen until 2002.
 
well, knowing what YEAR it happened might have been a good start.

images
Yep, just think if they had documented what MM said and WHEN....poooof, there is the magical date and time. Again, it's simple HR101 and why reporting incidents like this is actually tracked. Not only would you have the date, you would have what was actually said.....wow....crazy stuff there, but somehow a few here are missing this little concept. There would not be what did MM say, you actually record what was said and have that person sign for it.....crazy stuff apparently for some here.

that-aha-moment-orlando-espinosa.png
 
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A grown man showering with a juvenile should have been reported with or without horseplay, especially considering that police investigated Sandusky previously for the same thing.
That's BS, unless the juvenile in question happens to be female!
 
Yep, just think if they had documented what MM said and WHEN....poooof, there is the magical date and time. Again, it's simple HR101 and why reporting incidents like this is actually tracked. Not only would you have the date, you would have what was actually said.....wow....crazy stuff there, but somehow a few here are missing this little concept. There would not be what did MM say, you actually record what was said and have that person sign for it.....crazy stuff apparently for some here.

that-aha-moment-orlando-espinosa.png

Weren't the emails dated?
 
I didn't know Curley or Schultz were mandatory reporters. I'm pretty sure Dranov would have been and likely Raykovitz, since he worked for CYS part time.

Their Lawyers attempted to argue they were not mandatory reporters, they ended up pleading guilty.
 
They could have gotten MM on record, hmmmmm how would that have helped them? I leave that there...you think about it, and get back to me.
Again, this was a non issue then and it should be a non issue now. The only reason we know of this incident is because Corbett needed a hook to blame PSU instead of having prying eyes delving into TSM and his relationship with it.

This discussion has sunk to the point of whether or not C/S's meeting with Mike should have been documented? Big whoop! Why the hell aren't we discussing why the BOT intentionally destroyed JVP's reputation and shelled out > $200 million for no damn reason?
 
That's BS, unless the juvenile in question happens to be female!

Then why did the police and CYS investigate him for doing it in 1998? Apparently some sort of flag went up. A mandatory reporter is only responsible to report, not investigate.
 
The 'failure to report' charges were dropped. They plead guilty to one count each of endangering the welfare of a child who was never in danger.
IIRC, teachers are mandatory reporters but that suggests k ~ 12. Why would a college teacher, people that are dealing with students that are legally adults, be mandatory reporters? Is a professor a "teacher?" IDK.
 
Their Lawyers attempted to argue they were not mandatory reporters, they ended up pleading guilty.
They didn't plead guilty because they were mandatory reporters. They took the plea because of the bullshit spread by the OAG which tainted the jury pool. Either you are stupid or you are playing coy. Either way, you are full of shit.
 
Then why did the police and CYS investigate him for doing it in 1998? Apparently some sort of flag went up. A mandatory reporter is only responsible to report, not investigate.
Jerry was inappropriate and creeped out the boy. Mom was concerned. Had there been no physical contact, I'm sure there would have been no investigation.

A report should have been filed by Jack Raykovitz in '01.
 
Pleading guilty to what, specifically?

Endangering the welfare of children.

"The guilty pleas specifically related to a report by former assistant coach Mike McQueary that he saw Jerry Sandusky sexually assaulting a boy in a shower at Penn State in February 2001. He reported what he saw to Coach Joe Paterno, who in turn reported it to his supervisor, Curley."



"Prosecutors said that none of the Penn State administrators who were told of the allegation reported it to law enforcement, childcare and youth services or made any effort to locate or identify the child."

http://www.pennlive.com/news/2017/03/tim_curley_files_plea_in_sandu.html
 
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