OT: FYI, JZ says Newsweek article is still a go. (edit: Story now spiked)

[RussianEagle]

Oh so if you don't like hearing stuff you just put it in denial mode. It's not always just males that get molested, you do understand that. Holy crap. It's not people jumping out of Vans...it's people just like Jerry, friends of the family, or even family members that do this. Yes, what you stated does in fact happen. I don't care if you don't want to buy it because it ruins your pretty little picture of Jerry, this is what actually happens in the real world.

Do you realize Nasser had kids return to his room? Parents much like yourself said...not that guy, no way he could do it. They didn't believe their own children and you don't think people stay in touch with their abusers. Honestly, it's as if some people here didn't learn a thing about this stuff in 7 years. Normal rules do not apply.

https://www.pcar.org/blog/common-victim-behaviors-survivors-sexual-abuse

https://www.marieclaire.com/the-mix/a15753/i-kept-in-touch-with-the-person-who-assaulted-me/



Many victims continue to have a relationship with their abuser.

Though it may be difficult for the public to understand, it is common for survivors of sexual abuse to continue relationships with their abusers after the abuse has stopped. Individuals react to trauma in different ways. For example, it is common for victims to maintain contact with their abusers because they may still feel affection for them even though they hate the abuse. This is especially normal when the abuser is a member of the family or a close family friend. It is also common for some victims to maintain contact in an attempt to regain control over their assault. Others may maintain contact in an attempt to regain a feeling of normalcy.


Many survivors wait until well into their adult hood to share their secret. For many male victims, the shame and secrecy is compounded by the fear that their own sexuality may have something to do with it, or at least that others will think so. We must look at the stories of children with the eyes of children and recognize that a 10-year-old or 14-year-old boy has little language or understanding of human sexuality, and may have a very difficult time understanding that manipulation, abuse, exploitation and violence are not related to their own sexuality.

The two victims who claimed a sexual relationship with Jerry’s before the arrest were nearly 16 and 17 respectively, and both were having sex with girls during that same time period. I think they had a good understanding of human sexuality.

When I was in Middle School and early High school, the kids loved engaging in rumor mongering over which of our teachers were perverts or which ones were gay. Maybe a kid is too embarrassed to talk about his own abuse, but if Jerry really was abusing kids, the second mile boys would be certainly bringing up “Someone told me Jerry is gay” or “Someone told me Jerry is a pedophile” rumors with their buddies, which would then spread like wildfire.

 

[Chris92]

In regard to the hypogonadism claim....assuming he was diagnosed as such in 2008...how do we know he had always suffered from that? How would he if he only got that diagnosis in 2008?

I think that's why they want the blood test. There was even mention his chromosomes might be abnormal.

 

[SR108]

Please explain why you give everyone before C/S/S a free pass for doing essentially the same thing they did... report it up the chain to someone they thought was better equipped to handle it. Or why you give the person at the end of the reporting chain at TSM a free pass when he completely dropped the ball?

Not giving anyone a free pass. Certainly an argument could be made that MM, his dad, Draz and even Joe could have called the police or CYS and the whole mess could have been avoided. However, according to the law, MM and Joe did the right thing, and that is why neither was ever charged with anything. They reported potential abuse to their superiors. It was Curley, Schultz and Spanier that ultimately decided no to report to CYS. Spanier being "humane", ultimately was his downfall.That's why they ended up convicted and they are the reason that the rest of the country outside of Penn State believe their was a conspiracy to cover up child abuse. My personal view is that they simply could not believe Sandusky was capable of such a thing, which guided their actions. Unfortunately, it was not their place to determine guilt or innocence.

I have no idea why Second Mile officials never got into trouble, I agree they should have. They knew about Sandusky in 98 and they were informed about the shower incident MM reported, and they never reported to CYS or investigated who the child was with Sandusky. It certainly smells, and lends support to the scape goating of PSU Theory.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

The two victims who claimed a sexual relationship with Jerry’s before the arrest were nearly 16 and 17 respectively, and both were having sex with girls during that same time period. I think they had a good understanding of human sexuality.

When I was in Middle School and early High school, the kids loved engaging in rumor mongering over which of our teachers were perverts or which ones were gay. Maybe a kid is too embarrassed to talk about his own abuse, but if Jerry really was abusing kids, the second mile boys would be certainly bringing up “Someone told me Jerry is gay” or “Someone told me Jerry is a pedophile” rumors with their buddies, which would then spread like wildfire.

You simply just make things up in your head and somehow turn it into fact. Nothing you posted has any real merit to it, not to mention your second point is assuming that the victims weren't in any way ashamed of the abuse and were openly talking about it which clearly doesn't occur in most cases. You are taking your middle school years which I'm guessing were at least 50 years ago as most of Jerry's "followers" are in that silver fox era and you somehow turn it into all kids were molested and talked about it. You go out of your way to make things up for Jerry, but these kids he molested....they are all money grubbing devils.

 

[JmmyW]

They pled because they were afraid of a polluted jury poll and felt they could avoid prison time if they played nice with the prosecution. There really is no other explanation. I know for an absolute fact that both Curley and Schultz strongly believe Sandusky is innocent. Also remember afterward, Laura Ditka basically admitted the OAG pursued tough sentences against C/S/S to stick it to John Ziegler.

“I know for an absolute fact that both Curley and Schultz strongly believe Sandusky is innocent.”

How do you know this? Have you spoken with both Curley and Schultz? Have they gone on the record somewhere?

 

[indynittany]

....Certainly an argument could be made that MM, his dad, Draz and even Joe could have called the police or CYS and the whole mess could have been avoided......

I think this gives the BOT's/Corbett's narrative way more credence than it deserves.

 

[bdgan]

However, according to the law, MM and Joe did the right thing, and that is why neither was ever charged with anything.
.

Yet a disparaging "Paterno" movie is about to be released. I'm not aware of a Curley or Shultz movie.

 

[indynittany]

....Unfortunately, it was not their place to determine guilt or innocence....

This would assume there was an accusation of something illegal and C/S/S took the law into their own hands. The written evidence from '01 does not support this.

 

[francofan]

“I know for an absolute fact that both Curley and Schultz strongly believe Sandusky is innocent.”

How do you know this? Have you spoken with both Curley and Schultz? Have they gone on the record somewhere?

Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Do you have any evidence to the contrary?

Curley testified that he regretted how he handled the Sandusky case.

“I pled guilty, because I thought I should have done more,” Curley said. “At the end of the day, I wish I had done more.

Schultz said he wishes he had handled it differently, and that was why he entered his guilty plea.

“I really felt we should report it to DPW but the plan changed and I went along with it,” he said. “Ask me if I ever went back and expressed regret to Graham or Tim and the answer is no.”

 

[indynittany]

Curley testified that he regretted how he handled the Sandusky case.

“I pled guilty, because I thought I should have done more,” Curley said. “At the end of the day, I wish I had done more.

Schultz said he wishes he had handled it differently, and that was why he entered his guilty plea.

“I really felt we should report it to DPW but the plan changed and I went along with it,” he said. “Ask me if I ever went back and expressed regret to Graham or Tim and the answer is no.”

Neither statement expresses an opinion relative to Sandusky's guilt or innocence.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Neither statement expresses an opinion relative to Sandusky's guilt or innocence.

Well present your quotes of them saying Jerry is innocent. Let me guess, it's off the record via the attorney's to JZ.

 

[pandaczar12]

Not giving anyone a free pass. Certainly an argument could be made that MM, his dad, Draz and even Joe could have called the police or CYS and the whole mess could have been avoided. However, according to the law, MM and Joe did the right thing, and that is why neither was ever charged with anything. They reported potential abuse to their superiors. It was Curley, Schultz and Spanier that ultimately decided no to report to CYS. Spanier being "humane", ultimately was his downfall.That's why they ended up convicted and they are the reason that the rest of the country outside of Penn State believe their was a conspiracy to cover up child abuse. My personal view is that they simply could not believe Sandusky was capable of such a thing, which guided their actions. Unfortunately, it was not their place to determine guilt or innocence.

I have no idea why Second Mile officials never got into trouble, I agree they should have. They knew about Sandusky in 98 and they were informed about the shower incident MM reported, and they never reported to CYS or investigated who the child was with Sandusky. It certainly smells, and lends support to the scape goating of PSU Theory.

Forgetting for a second that MM was the actual witness and everyone else just heard hearsay... How were MM and Joe's actions any different than C/S/S? They reported potential abuse up the chain to someone they thought was better equipped to handle it. Ultimately it was JR at TSM who decided not to report to CYS. It was his place to determine guilt or innocence.

C/S were convicted of a misdemeanor (and not the conspiracy felony) because they were duped by the commonwealth that they would receive no jail time. Spanier was convicted of the same charge and the jury foreman said it was a mistake. This will likely be overturned.

 

[indynittany]

Well present your quotes of them saying Jerry is innocent. Let me guess, it's off the record via the attorney's to JZ.

I've never made that claim. I'm simply pointing out your post does not refute it.

 

[Bob78]

Oh so if you don't like hearing stuff you just put it in denial mode. It's not always just males that get molested, you do understand that. Holy crap. It's not people jumping out of Vans...it's people just like Jerry, friends of the family, or even family members that do this. Yes, what you stated does in fact happen. I don't care if you don't want to buy it because it ruins your pretty little picture of Jerry, this is what actually happens in the real world.

Do you realize Nasser had kids return to his room? Parents much like yourself said...not that guy, no way he could do it. They didn't believe their own children and you don't think people stay in touch with their abusers. Honestly, it's as if some people here didn't learn a thing about this stuff in 7 years. Normal rules do not apply.

https://www.pcar.org/blog/common-victim-behaviors-survivors-sexual-abuse

https://www.marieclaire.com/the-mix/a15753/i-kept-in-touch-with-the-person-who-assaulted-me/



Many victims continue to have a relationship with their abuser.

Though it may be difficult for the public to understand, it is common for survivors of sexual abuse to continue relationships with their abusers after the abuse has stopped. Individuals react to trauma in different ways. For example, it is common for victims to maintain contact with their abusers because they may still feel affection for them even though they hate the abuse. This is especially normal when the abuser is a member of the family or a close family friend. It is also common for some victims to maintain contact in an attempt to regain control over their assault. Others may maintain contact in an attempt to regain a feeling of normalcy.


Many survivors wait until well into their adult hood to share their secret. For many male victims, the shame and secrecy is compounded by the fear that their own sexuality may have something to do with it, or at least that others will think so. We must look at the stories of children with the eyes of children and recognize that a 10-year-old or 14-year-old boy has little language or understanding of human sexuality, and may have a very difficult time understanding that manipulation, abuse, exploitation and violence are not related to their own sexuality.

You know how I feel here... I tend to believe in JS's guilt, to at least some degree. I think it is likely less than what he was convicted on, but I believe there's something to all of it.

However, the one thing more than any other that keeps me somewhat skeptical is the lack of accusations and law enforcement involvement from the founding of TSM up til '98, then another 3rd party account in '01, and nothing else until the controversial memory therapies began. The odds are that someone or some of the hundreds of young men over two and three decades, would have come forward with some substantial accusations to the proper authorities (i.e., NOT JVP!!) had these CSA instances occurred. (I mean come forward as adults, a number of years after it happened, and not as a child soon after being subjected to it, as the article you cite mentions.)

If we think there were a minimum of 30 victims, and maybe that is just 5% of the boys he was involved with via TSM over the years, then it is still odd that none of the 30, on their own, came forward. And I agree that by and large, most - not all - victims stay silent about CSA for nearly all their lives. That leaves room for strong odds that 1 or 2 of the 30 would have said something to someone in authority at some time on their own, before the fit hit the shan in '11. And it only takes 1. Where was he all the while?

Just my opinion.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

You know how I feel here... I tend to believe in JS's guilt, to at least some degree. I think it is likely less than what he was convicted on, but I believe there's something to all of it.

However, the one thing more than any other that keeps me somewhat skeptical is the lack of accusations and law enforcement involvement from the founding of TSM up til '98, then another 3rd party account in '01, and nothing else until the controversial memory therapies began. The odds are that someone or some of the hundreds of young men over two and three decades, would have come forward with some substantial accusations to the proper authorities (i.e., NOT JVP!!) had these CSA instances occurred. (I mean come forward as adults, a number of years after it happened, and not as a child soon after being subjected to it, as the article you cite mentions.)

If we think there were a minimum of 30 victims, and maybe that is just 5% of the boys he was involved with via TSM over the years, then it is still odd that none of the 30, on their own, came forward. And I agree that by and large, most - not all - victims stay silent about CSA for nearly all their lives. That leaves room for strong odds that 1 or 2 of the 30 would have said something to someone in authority at some time on their own, before the fit hit the shan in '11. And it only takes 1. Where was he all the while?

Just my opinion.

Look at how many victims Nasser had, how many spoke up initially, 1-2%. It wasn't until the avalanche came down that they all came forward, so in the PSU world that makes them liars? Again, not directed at you as you can think critically.

 

[Bob78]

You simply just make things up in your head and somehow turn it into fact. Nothing you posted has any real merit to it, not to mention your second point is assuming that the victims weren't in any way ashamed of the abuse and were openly talking about it which clearly doesn't occur in most cases. You are taking your middle school years which I'm guessing were at least 50 years ago as most of Jerry's "followers" are in that silver fox era and you somehow turn it into all kids were molested and talked about it. You go out of your way to make things up for Jerry, but these kids he molested....they are all money grubbing devils.

But I think his point has more merit than you're giving it. (Said the farte d'olde!).

I can recall that my 8th grade homeroom teacher, a Boy Scout Leader, was often talked about as the guy the scouts did not want to be in their tents on camping trips.... his hands went under the sleeping bags, and, well, you know where this is going. So the rumors were widespread, laughed at, accepted as fact, didn't go away. Of course, nothing was done about it back then, either.

And rumors that have anything at all to do with sexual experiences at a younger age fly around all the time. So, it is a realistic expectation, imo, that rumors about JS would have been rampant within the TSM crowd. And maybe they were, but as far as I know, that aspect of the case has not come out to any noticeable extent. Another oddity; not an exoneration, but odd.

 

[RussianEagle]

“I know for an absolute fact that both Curley and Schultz strongly believe Sandusky is innocent.”

How do you know this? Have you spoken with both Curley and Schultz? Have they gone on the record somewhere?

I have corresponded with Gary Schultz. Gary regularly speaks with Ziegler and accepts his version of what happened. I wish Gary would make a public statement, but I think he’s still under house arrest and doesn’t want to run a foul of our corrupt OAG.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

But I think his point has more merit than you're giving it. (Said the farte d'olde!).

I can recall that my 8th grade homeroom teacher, a Boy Scout Leader, was often talked about as the guy the scouts did not want to be in their tents on camping trips.... his hands went under the sleeping bags, and, well, you know where this is going. So the rumors were widespread, laughed at, accepted as fact, didn't go away. Of course, nothing was done about it back then, either.

And rumors that have anything at all to do with sexual experiences at a younger age fly around all the time. So, it is a realistic expectation, imo, that rumors about JS would have been rampant within the TSM crowd. And maybe they were, but as far as I know, that aspect of the case has not come out to any noticeable extent. Another oddity; not an exoneration, but odd.

Did the 8th grade teach get convicted? Plenty of teachers were made fun of, but that doesn't make it true. Victims of abuse tend to clam up about it and TSM wasn't a school so you're assuming these kids were together all of the time. Is that the case? I don't know...maybe it was. You are basically saying your odd teacher somehow equates to Jerry's innocence...it really doesn't.

 

[PSUPride1]

Look at how many victims Nasser had, how many spoke up initially, 1-2%. It wasn't until the avalanche came down that they all came forward, so in the PSU world that makes them liars? Again, not directed at you as you can think critically.

Every case is different Lajolla. I respect you a lot and I'm not saying anyone is innocent but repressed memory therapy is garbage, and the victims in the JS case have a lot of credibility issues.
And how can one defend themselves in any case, not just an abuse case, if so-called victims or allegations are above questioning. That's a guilty verdict with zero chance of proving innocence. Not really how our system is supposed to work.
And now everyone who ever knew a bad guy is a bad guy or an enabler of the bad guy. Bottom line is stay away from kids, far away.

 

[Bob78]

Look at how many victims Nasser had, how many spoke up initially, 1-2%. It wasn't until the avalanche came down that they all came forward, so in the PSU world that makes them liars? Again, not directed at you as you can think critically.

Those young women from when the story broke are certainly not liars. I believe them. I believe it takes one or two very brave people to get the ball rolling. Thankfully, they did, and the others were quick to support them.
I also can believe that some of the more recent ones after the initial avalanche may have tagged in once they realized there was money to be had. Maybe not, but maybe worth a closer look.

If I recall, the JS prosecution was struggling to find victims until PSU announced they were opening the vaults. That, and then the repressed memory deal got involved. So, that lends some skepticism to my thinking wrt the degree of JS's guilt. And that's an important distinction between the cases, imo.

 

[SR108]

Neither statement expresses an opinion relative to Sandusky's guilt or innocence.

So? As I said before and as the law is clear, a reporter does not have the burden of proving guilt or innocence, but they do have a mandate to report. When you determine guilt or innocence on your own, that's when you screw up as they did. It is CYS and the police department's responsibility too investigate.

 

[Bob78]

Did the 8th grade teach get convicted? Plenty of teachers were made fun of, but that doesn't make it true. Victims of abuse tend to clam up about it and TSM wasn't a school so you're assuming these kids were together all of the time. Is that the case? I don't know...maybe it was. You are basically saying your odd teacher somehow equates to Jerry's innocence...it really doesn't.

No, 8th grade teacher was never convicted of anything that I am aware of. Yes, many rumors are false; some are true. There was a lot of smoke around this particular one, including from some friends of mine, so probably more truth than fiction in that specific case.

Yes, victims clam up for long periods of time. TSM was not a school, but held numerous events where large groups of kids were together for an afternoon, or day, or whatever. Not as frequently as in a school day situation, but long enough for kids to be kids and talk about sexual 'stuff'.

I'm not at all equating the teacher example to JS's innocence. I have been clear on that. I'm saying the lack of rumor-mongering about JS makes me more skeptical than I otherwise would ever be. But I cannot find him innocent of all CSA; rather, as I've said, I think his guilt is a smaller subset of what he was convicted on. Just my opinion.

As a farte d'young, the rumors about an "8th grade teacher" situation rarely brought charges or even any real discipline. If there was some merit to it, and an adult found out, a stern "Knock it off" was issued. And the perp went elsewhere to find victims.

But, old days to now, rumors about anything to do with sex are abundant. From the 8th grade teacher to Gina Statutory in the balcony... anything titillating to adolescent minds and bodies was whispered and shouted all over the place. Even by the victims sometimes, maybe in a self-help type of way. We all heard about who had made out with another student, which girls were easy, which adults were SOBs, etc. And that is still true today. The lack of it wrt JS is an oddity, imo.

 

[SR108]

This would assume there was an accusation of something illegal and C/S/S took the law into their own hands. The written evidence from '01 does not support this.

Innocent people are investigated for child abuse all of the time. I have had to report to CYS on more than one occasion when I was very skeptical that child abuse had taken place. But I still had to report when a situation was presented to me. Failure to do so on my part would have resulted in big trouble for me.

 

[RussianEagle]

You simply just make things up in your head and somehow turn it into fact. Nothing you posted has any real merit to it, not to mention your second point is assuming that the victims weren't in any way ashamed of the abuse and were openly talking about it which clearly doesn't occur in most cases. You are taking your middle school years which I'm guessing were at least 50 years ago as most of Jerry's "followers" are in that silver fox era and you somehow turn it into all kids were molested and talked about it. You go out of your way to make things up for Jerry, but these kids he molested....they are all money grubbing devils.

I’m actually a year older than Victim 4 and four years younger than Matt Sandusky.

I am willing to accept that if the boys were abused they would not talk about their own personal abuse, However, what I was saying is that it’s absurd rumors did not start. I do not expect “Hey guys, Jerry grabbed my dick” but I would expect “Hey guys, someone told me that Jerry is into boys”

 

[Osprey Lion]

In regard to the hypogonadism claim....assuming he was diagnosed as such in 2008...how do we know he had always suffered from that? How would he if he only got that diagnosis in 2008?

Sandusky had hypobonerforboysism. The cure is to keep him in jail.

 

[nits74]

Sandusky had hypobonerforboysism. The cure is to keep him in jail.

If only there were a cure for repeated stupidity.

 

[indynittany]

So? As I said before and as the law is clear, a reporter does not have the burden of proving guilt or innocence, but they do have a mandate to report. When you determine guilt or innocence on your own, that's when you screw up as they did. It is CYS and the police department's responsibility too investigate.

Again, you assume there was something worth reporting other than Sandusky and his surrogate son horsing around. And you may also be overlooking the professional and legal obligations of Jack Raykovitz to follow through on what Curley reported to him.

With the benefit of hindsight, one can argue that C/S/S should have thrown Jerry under the bus. But legally and morally, once the Executive Director of TSM was informed, PSU should have been in the clear. Why it wasn't is the real scandal!

 

[LaJolla Lion]

No, 8th grade teacher was never convicted of anything that I am aware of. Yes, many rumors are false; some are true. There was a lot of smoke around this particular one, including from some friends of mine, so probably more truth than fiction in that specific case.

Yes, victims clam up for long periods of time. TSM was not a school, but held numerous events where large groups of kids were together for an afternoon, or day, or whatever. Not as frequently as in a school day situation, but long enough for kids to be kids and talk about sexual 'stuff'.

I'm not at all equating the teacher example to JS's innocence. I have been clear on that. I'm saying the lack of rumor-mongering about JS makes me more skeptical than I otherwise would ever be. But I cannot find him innocent of all CSA; rather, as I've said, I think his guilt is a smaller subset of what he was convicted on. Just my opinion.

As a farte d'young, the rumors about an "8th grade teacher" situation rarely brought charges or even any real discipline. If there was some merit to it, and an adult found out, a stern "Knock it off" was issued. And the perp went elsewhere to find victims.

But, old days to now, rumors about anything to do with sex are abundant. From the 8th grade teacher to Gina Statutory in the balcony... anything titillating to adolescent minds and bodies was whispered and shouted all over the place. Even by the victims sometimes, maybe in a self-help type of way. We all heard about who had made out with another student, which girls were easy, which adults were SOBs, etc. And that is still true today. The lack of it wrt JS is an oddity, imo.

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Well here is the thing...this wasn't a school. It was a charity so we don't know how much access they had to each other or if all of them even talked all that much. Again this wasn't a joke about a teacher, abused kids tend to clam up about that....not my words there either, just read up on it. So the situations aren't really all that alike at all to be honest.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I’m actually a year older than Victim 4 and four years younger than Matt Sandusky.

I am willing to accept that if the boys were abused they would not talk about their own personal abuse, However, what I was saying is that it’s absurd rumors did not start. I do not expect “Hey guys, Jerry grabbed my dick” but I would expect “Hey guys, someone told me that Jerry is into boys”

So all of them went to the same school and hung out in the same circles? Again victims of abuse tend to clam up about it so it's pretty crazy you think that they were out laughing and joking about it....well not really considering some of your other fantasy like posts.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Every case is different Lajolla. I respect you a lot and I'm not saying anyone is innocent but repressed memory therapy is garbage, and the victims in the JS case have a lot of credibility issues.
And how can one defend themselves in any case, not just an abuse case, if so-called victims or allegations are above questioning. That's a guilty verdict with zero chance of proving innocence. Not really how our system is supposed to work.
And now everyone who ever knew a bad guy is a bad guy or an enabler of the bad guy. Bottom line is stay away from kids, far away.

Every case is different but there are a ton of common themes here.

People are saying since they joked around in middle school that everyone knew...well Nasser had the same girls in camp and it was 5 times as many...and girls are a lot more chatty....how come only 1-2% initially ever spoke up? How manny kids even knew each other at all? I didn’t make a made up claim so how about some actually backs up their claims? Oh that isn’t needed here, we accept any pro Jerry thing as fact here. JimmyW blows them up from time to time and they still keep running with them.

Again....each case is different but this site has never presented anything of substance that Jerry is innocent. The best you have is they got money and weren't model citizens....that isn't any proof. The repressed memory was brought up at the trial IIRC, was it not?

 

[bdgan]

Again, you assume there was something worth reporting other than Sandusky and his surrogate son horsing around.

Dranov said there was nothing worth reporting.

 

[nits74]

Every case is different Lajolla. I respect you a lot and I'm not saying anyone is innocent but repressed memory therapy is garbage, and the victims in the JS case have a lot of credibility issues.
And how can one defend themselves in any case, not just an abuse case, if so-called victims or allegations are above questioning. That's a guilty verdict with zero chance of proving innocence. Not really how our system is supposed to work.
And now everyone who ever knew a bad guy is a bad guy or an enabler of the bad guy. Bottom line is stay away from kids, far away.

It's not far from the truth that this is where, if not there already, we are rapidly heading. And it's a shame.

 

[bdgan]

And how can one defend themselves in any case, not just an abuse case, if so-called victims or allegations are above questioning.

That's what's happening with all of these sexual harrassment claims. I don't care if it's Al Franken, Donald Trump, Dustin Hoffman, or George Takei. There seems to be a presumption of guilt. Maybe not in a court of law but certainly in the court of public opinion.

 

[RussianEagle]

So all of them went to the same school and hung out in the same circles? Again victims of abuse tend to clam up about it so it's pretty crazy you think that they were out laughing and joking about it....well not really considering some of your other fantasy like posts.

When did I mention laughing and joking. And while they might not have attended the same school, most of Sandusky’s accusers knw each other. 4 of them were pictured together in Touched and Victim 10 was a buddy of Victim 3. Heck, most of these guys only flipped on Sandusky after learning thier buddies had also flipped on him.

 

[Bob78]

Well here is the thing...this wasn't a school. It was a charity so we don't know how much access they had to each other or if all of them even talked all that much. Again this wasn't a joke about a teacher, abused kids tend to clam up about that....not my words there either, just read up on it. So the situations aren't really all that alike at all to be honest.

In my post, I generally agreed with you about victims not opening up soon after the abuse, although certainly some do in one form or another.
I think there are some similarities just from people being people, regardless of setting. Young teenage boys getting together for even a few hours... I'd be surprised if sexual rumors were not part of the discussions that happen. As someone else said, they could mention the rumor via 3rd person innuendo... "I heard that...".
But, although we're saying many of the same things, we are going to disagree on some of the details. That's ok; both of our viewpoints are rational. (But then, maybe that is just my irrational opinion!)

 

[LaJolla Lion]

In my post, I generally agreed with you about victims not opening up soon after the abuse, although certainly some do in one form or another.
I think there are some similarities just from people being people, regardless of setting. Young teenage boys getting together for even a few hours... I'd be surprised if sexual rumors were not part of the discussions that happen. As someone else said, they could mention the rumor via 3rd person innuendo... "I heard that...".
But, although we're saying many of the same things, we are going to disagree on some of the details. That's ok; both of our viewpoints are rational. (But then, maybe that is just my irrational opinion!)

Fair enough Bob.

 

[indynittany]

When did I mention laughing and joking. And while they might not have attended the same school, most of Sandusky’s accusers knw each other. 4 of them were pictured together in Touched and Victim 10 was a buddy of Victim 3. Heck, most of these guys only flipped on Sandusky after learning thier buddies had also flipped on him.

That's especially obvious with Matt!

When there's no money on the line, you can be excused for treating the victims as though they are above reproach. But once they've hired an advocate and are seeking $ millions of dollars, our system demands their scrutiny. Now in a case where there's compelling evidence to support a victim's testimony, you don't have to dig too deep. There's none of that here. In fact, quite the opposite.

And in this case, more than anything I could have ever imagined, there's evidence of misconduct by the prosecution and collusion by Penn State. Corbett and TSM have far more motive to rig this whole process, than C/S/S had to protect Jerry.

What has been PSU's motive? That's what I want to know!

 

[JmmyW]

In my post, I generally agreed with you about victims not opening up soon after the abuse, although certainly some do in one form or another.
I think there are some similarities just from people being people, regardless of setting. Young teenage boys getting together for even a few hours... I'd be surprised if sexual rumors were not part of the discussions that happen. As someone else said, they could mention the rumor via 3rd person innuendo... "I heard that...".
But, although we're saying many of the same things, we are going to disagree on some of the details. That's ok; both of our viewpoints are rational. (But then, maybe that is just my irrational opinion!)

FYI - there was a little bit of chatter from the victims and in the schools.

This is from the first police interview of V7 on 2/3/2011:

Worth noting - Ryan Dixon died a few months before V1 first came forward, so there was some chatter among friends before any investigation started.

This is from a 1/2012 article:

So V6's sister had a clue about another boy (this was V5 according to Moulton) who took showers with Sandusky. I'd be surprised if the other kids that heard that outburst weren't guessing some things.


V4 testified about getting teased in school that he was being molested. The following is from 6/11/2011, p.71-72:

I didn't -- I didn't want to lose -- this is something good happening to me, you know, and I don't really have a dad around. I never really had a father figure. And I'm liking everything that I'm getting.
Also, you got to realize, I mean, once I'm -- I'm in high school at this point and people are jealous. I mean, that's the way that I look at it. You know, like, other kids are jealous, things like that. So they want to tease you and, you know, they're making up things like, oh, you know, you're being molested by Jerry and you're his little butt buddy and all these kind of things, you know.
Q. They're kidding?
A. They're jealous, you know what I mean? They're -- I'm sure they'd have switched places with me in a heart beat but they're just jealous. And you know how kids are. They got to pick at each other. So I got to play this off. So it really is happening but I have to pretend like it's really not happening to everybody else because I have to, you know, hold this mentality that I'm the strong person, you know, this -- got to keep my, you know, appearance at school, these kind of things.
If I ever said anything and that would have got out to that, it would just been so much worse. I mean, I denied it forever. Forever.
Q. Kids -- other kids would actually kid you about this?
A. All the time. All the time.
Q. And how did they know that you had this relation -- or that you had some relationship with the defendant? How did they know that?
A. Because, I mean, by this point I have been in Sport Illustrated. I have -- you know, they know that I'm going to the games. Jerry comes to the school. Jerry is always in my town and, you know, a lot of the kids go to town. ​

 

[NICNEM_PSU80]

Look at how many victims Nasser had, how many spoke up initially, 1-2%. It wasn't until the avalanche came down that they all came forward, so in the PSU world that makes them liars? Again, not directed at you as you can think critically.

There were 10's of girls who complained about Nasser over the years and they were told to be quiet. That was more than enough to be not just alarmed but convinced that there was a major problem. There were hundreds of girls who came out of the wood work when finally someone took them seriously. That is not the case with JS. They had to be dragged into court by a shady attorney and convinced to remember something which may or may not have happened. Those are the facts and they are undeniable by anyone who has kept up with the facts.