OT: Game of Thrones S6E1 - The Red Woman.... *SPOILERS*

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

As good a time as any to get a proper discussion going on the long awaited return of Game of Thrones. I used to hate that the books existed and that I hadn't read them, but I admit there was some comfort in knowing there was a 'path' for the story and characters. Now, we're not sure what is being done exclusively for the show, or how much input GRRM has on how things proceed (I've heard it's significant though). Anyway, unlike previous seasons we pick up right where we left off....

*SPOILERS*

• Bummed we still don't know Jon's fate, but it's looking like Melisandre's involvement is imminent. Davos knows what she's capable of and it looks like he's going to ask her for help. The shocking Melisandre reveal at the end of the show was striking and curious - was it to show she's been doing this for a long, long, long time? To show she's at a crossroads with her beliefs (by appearing worn down and resigned)? Or, to simply illustrate that her real appearance is a reminder that there are still secrets we do not know? Dunno. But, guessing we find out next week!
• Thank God Brienne finally got to Sansa (and kicked major ass in doing so) - Theon can only do so much. Also nice to see Roose put Ramsay in his place again with the threat that a younger, true born brother would be Roose's heir if Ramsay doesn't fix things with Sansa. But, looking like that may not happen for a while. Now, Brienne and Sansa are headed to Castle Black where they think Jon will help them out. As an aside, where is Littlefinger? He's always been very strategic, but marrying off Sansa to a psychopath is asking a lot, isn't it? He loves Sansa right? She's the next best thing to Cat Stark. Dunno - something seems off here. I can't imagine he would put her right in harm's way without someone keeping him informed. Or, he's a heartless bastard.
• Was a bit shocked at how Dany handled her Dothraki captors - but, it was my favorite scene of the night. She was confident and defiant, and certainly underestimated by her captors. But, while admitting she was Khal Drogo's wife may have saved her life, it also looks like a one way ticket to the house of widows, where she will presumably live out her days in mourning. Something tells me she won't make it there...namely, a large dragon.
• Not sure what to make of Tyrion an Varys; guess we're getting some insight into how Tyrion 'rules' - he wants to be informed and be around the people. The two also suggest someone is planning the attacks and unrest in the city - burning ships in the harbor are just the latest evidence of this. Question is, is this someone we know? Or do not know? And where the f*** are the Unsullied? Talk about a d***less army (literally) - those guys have done nothing to back up their amazing reputation.
• One of the things this show does really well is develop characters so well you forget that you hated them just two seasons ago. I mean, is anyone rooting for Dorne and the Sand Snakes over Cersei and Jaime? I loved Oberyn, but his wife and daughters are not sympathetic at all. Really wanting to see the Lannisters take it to them now. And I think they will. The other lingering plot line at King's Landing is the fate of Loras and Margaery - I think they're going to end up on Cersei's side once she instructs Jaime and the King's Guard to wipe out the Sparrows; then House Tyrell and Lannister will destroy Dorne.
• Finally, we get to poor Arya, who abused the power of The Faceless and is left blind and begging. But, her old nemesis shows up, they spar for a bit, and it looks like Jaqen hasn't given up on her just yet. Certainly wanted Arya to get to be a Faceless Man, but this is taking a long time - she was much more interesting when she was with The Hound.

So, what did everyone else think? Great episode IMO, but like always, too short. I don't like the long tease going on with Jon, but that seems like it'll be resolved soon. They likely only have two seasons left after this one to wrap things up - nice to see some pace to the show thus far.

 

[bmw199]

The shocking Melisandre reveal at the end of the show was striking and curious - was it to show she's been doing this for a long, long, long time? To show she's at a crossroads with her beliefs (by appearing worn down and resigned)? Or, to simply illustrate that her real appearance is a reminder that there are still secrets we do not know? Dunno. But, guessing we find out next week!

This has actually been a long standing fan theory on her, so I'm a little surprised it came true, but as soon as she walked over to the mirror I totally knew where they were going. In the books she's used that power on other people, glamoring them to appear as someone else. The fan theory was actually that she was undead but glamoring herself to be alive, so close. I think she will ultimately give her life for Jon's in the show, probably not how it plays out in the books, but I think it won't happen for a few weeks.

burning ships in the harbor are just the latest evidence of this.

I really thought we were going to see black sails in the horizon on this one, little disappointed we didn't.

House Tyrell and Lannister will destroy Dorne

So this would actually be an interesting way for the show to merge a storyline that's happening in the books, but hasn't yet been introduced. Doran in the books has a daughter (Arianne) and she is on a mission that I won't mention because it would be a major spoiler for later in this season, but I suspect that one of the sandsnakes will take up that mission on the show. Loras is also somewhat involved (kind of not really) in the same storyline, so it would make sense to get him to where he is in the books.

 

[JBDLion]

Dorne is way off the book path, for better or worse. Many of the subplots are gone and won't be possible. I found Dorne very boring last year but liked this twist (it was nice to be surprised by Dorne for once). Oberyn was probably my favorite show character so I had high expectations, unfortunately.

I expect the two Sand Snakes that killed Trystane to cause some trouble in King's Landing this year. Wouldn't be shocked for them to take out Tommen.

I wouldn't be surprised for this season to be the end of Lloras. Margaery will get out but there's some heavy foreshadowing of conflict between Tommen and Cersei. Highly hypothetical if, but if Margaery gets out and Tommen is eliminated, I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Martells align with Dorne and not against. The old lady is crafty and does not like that Cersei pushed her around last year.

I liked the Dany/dothraki scenes. She definitely makes it to the Dosh Khaleen, as trailers have showed her there, so don't expect a Drogon rescue on the way there. Once she's initiated, all bets are off.

Interviews with the Littlefinger actor made it seem like he actually didn't know about Ramsey's tendencies. It's somewhat surprising but not completely unrealistic (the north is very very large for his birdies and Ramsey was not even in the picture as a legitimate heir until recently). I wouldn't say Littlefinger loves Sansa (or else he wouldn't have arranged her marriage to someone else). He loves himself.

I don't understand why Tyrion and Varys would be unguarded, knowing what they know about the environment. The burning ships was a big deal for Dany's end goal, but I'm sure another party with some ships will come into play this season..

I had heard the Melisandre theories (and also some theories regarding her ancestry) so it wasn't a huge shock. It will be interesting to see how it all comes together. She has more breaking down to do, as there are things from trailers and interviews that didn't play out in episode 1. I can see some different scenarios playing out with Jon. I'm not convinced we'll know by the end of episode 2.

The writers have said that this season will expose a lot of the history and mythology. Bran will be a big part of that. Mel will as well.

I liked the Sansa/Brienne scene. I thought it was nice that the sword Brienne lays at Sansa's feet was forged out of Ned's Valyrian steel sword (Ice), even if the hilt has Lannister gold lions. I'm not sure if she knows it (she was in King's Landing when Tywin gave the other sword forged from Ice to Joffrey, not sure if she was aware Jaime was also given one or is aware that either came from Ice) but I thought it was interesting.

Davos and his mutton and Khal Moro's banter with his bloodriders about "OK, one of the top 5 things in the world" were nice added laughs.

 

[CF LION]

I thought it was a pretty strong season-opener -- definitely a table-setter for lots of things to come.

As I said in the other thread, I did not like the writing in the scene with Dany and the Dothraki's. It almost seemed like the writers were going for a few chuckles with the back and forth about things that are better than seeing a naked woman for the first time.

 

[bmw199]

Melisandre theories (and also some theories regarding her ancestry)

Do you think she is an ancient targaryen? In interviews the actress and others have said she's 400 years old. Could she be one of Aegon the conquerors sisters?

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

This has actually been a long standing fan theory on her, so I'm a little surprised it came true, but as soon as she walked over to the mirror I totally knew where they were going. In the books she's used that power on other people, glamoring them to appear as someone else. The fan theory was actually that she was undead but glamoring herself to be alive, so close. I think she will ultimately give her life for Jon's in the show, probably not how it plays out in the books, but I think it won't happen for a few weeks.

I really thought we were going to see black sails in the horizon on this one, little disappointed we didn't.

So this would actually be an interesting way for the show to merge a storyline that's happening in the books, but hasn't yet been introduced. Doran in the books has a daughter (Arianne) and she is on a mission that I won't mention because it would be a major spoiler for later in this season, but I suspect that one of the sandsnakes will take up that mission on the show. Loras is also somewhat involved (kind of not really) in the same storyline, so it would make sense to get him to where he is in the books.

Would Melisandre need to give her life though? Thoros was able to bring Dondarian back to life multiple times - thought the one being brought back bore the brunt of the process?

 

[bmw199]

Would Melisandre need to give her life though? Thoros was able to bring Dondarian back to life multiple times - thought the one being brought back bore the brunt of the process?

True. But, Dondarian in the books eventually give up his life for another characters undead rising, that didn't happen in the show. So, some precedent for that as well.

 

[JBDLion]

Do you think she is an ancient targaryen? In interviews the actress and others have said she's 400 years old. Could she be one of Aegon the conquerors sisters?

Related to Targs? Possibly.
Descendent of Aegon or his sisters? Not directly Aegon the Conquerer.
Aegon IV (the Unworthy)? Maybe.
Theory: Bastard daughter of Bloodraven (Bran's teacher/Brynden Rivers/Aegon IV's legitimized bastard) and Shiera Seastar (Aegon IV's bastard daughter from another).

 

[SR108]

As good a time as any to get a proper discussion going on the long awaited return of Game of Thrones. I used to hate that the books existed and that I hadn't read them, but I admit there was some comfort in knowing there was a 'path' for the story and characters. Now, we're not sure what is being done exclusively for the show, or how much input GRRM has on how things proceed (I've heard it's significant though). Anyway, unlike previous seasons we pick up right where we left off....

*SPOILERS*

• Bummed we still don't know Jon's fate, but it's looking like Melisandre's involvement is imminent. Davos knows what she's capable of and it looks like he's going to ask her for help. The shocking Melisandre reveal at the end of the show was striking and curious - was it to show she's been doing this for a long, long, long time? To show she's at a crossroads with her beliefs (by appearing worn down and resigned)? Or, to simply illustrate that her real appearance is a reminder that there are still secrets we do not know? Dunno. But, guessing we find out next week!
• Thank God Brienne finally got to Sansa (and kicked major ass in doing so) - Theon can only do so much. Also nice to see Roose put Ramsay in his place again with the threat that a younger, true born brother would be Roose's heir if Ramsay doesn't fix things with Sansa. But, looking like that may not happen for a while. Now, Brienne and Sansa are headed to Castle Black where they think Jon will help them out. As an aside, where is Littlefinger? He's always been very strategic, but marrying off Sansa to a psychopath is asking a lot, isn't it? He loves Sansa right? She's the next best thing to Cat Stark. Dunno - something seems off here. I can't imagine he would put her right in harm's way without someone keeping him informed. Or, he's a heartless bastard.
• Was a bit shocked at how Dany handled her Dothraki captors - but, it was my favorite scene of the night. She was confident and defiant, and certainly underestimated by her captors. But, while admitting she was Khal Drogo's wife may have saved her life, it also looks like a one way ticket to the house of widows, where she will presumably live out her days in mourning. Something tells me she won't make it there...namely, a large dragon.
• Not sure what to make of Tyrion an Varys; guess we're getting some insight into how Tyrion 'rules' - he wants to be informed and be around the people. The two also suggest someone is planning the attacks and unrest in the city - burning ships in the harbor are just the latest evidence of this. Question is, is this someone we know? Or do not know? And where the f*** are the Unsullied? Talk about a d***less army (literally) - those guys have done nothing to back up their amazing reputation.
• One of the things this show does really well is develop characters so well you forget that you hated them just two seasons ago. I mean, is anyone rooting for Dorne and the Sand Snakes over Cersei and Jaime? I loved Oberyn, but his wife and daughters are not sympathetic at all. Really wanting to see the Lannisters take it to them now. And I think they will. The other lingering plot line at King's Landing is the fate of Loras and Margaery - I think they're going to end up on Cersei's side once she instructs Jaime and the King's Guard to wipe out the Sparrows; then House Tyrell and Lannister will destroy Dorne.
• Finally, we get to poor Arya, who abused the power of The Faceless and is left blind and begging. But, her old nemesis shows up, they spar for a bit, and it looks like Jaqen hasn't given up on her just yet. Certainly wanted Arya to get to be a Faceless Man, but this is taking a long time - she was much more interesting when she was with The Hound.

So, what did everyone else think? Great episode IMO, but like always, too short. I don't like the long tease going on with Jon, but that seems like it'll be resolved soon. They likely only have two seasons left after this one to wrap things up - nice to see some pace to the show thus far.

Felt bad for ghost, I was hoping he would rip someone apart.

 

[LafayetteBear]

The strongest reaction I have to watching the opening episode is the desire to see some asses get kicked. Namely:

1. Ramsay Bolton
2. Oberyn's traitorous wife
3. The Chief Septon (and his female jailer)
4. Littlefinger
5. That gal who keeps picking on Arya
6. Thorne

I could go on...

 

[bmw199]

The strongest reaction I have to watching the opening episode is the desire to see some asses get kicked. Namely:

1. Ramsay Bolton
2. Oberyn's traitorous wife
3. The Chief Septon (and his female jailer)
4. Littlefinger
5. That gal who keeps picking on Arya
6. Thorne

I could go on...

This season should see some a holes get their comeuppance and hopefully some wins for the good guys. Funny how some of the former hated are now ones we root for. I have a feeling the end of the season though will show a much greater threat to all of our favorites is on it's way. I also don't think things are going to get easier for Dany.

Bolten, I've got a feeling that your whole family is going down.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Felt bad for ghost, I was hoping he would rip someone apart.

Oh, I think he's going to....

The strongest reaction I have to watching the opening episode is the desire to see some asses get kicked. Namely:

1. Ramsay Bolton
2. Oberyn's traitorous wife
3. The Chief Septon (and his female jailer)
4. Littlefinger
5. That gal who keeps picking on Arya
6. Thorne

I could go on...

Amazing that Cersei isn't even in your Top Five, right? I mean, everyone loved Oberyn, but he lost fair and square - his arrogance did him in. His brother knows this which is why he's not doing anything about it. Cersei used to be at or near the top of everyone's 'love to hate' list and now she's mostly an afterthought. Amazing how great writing will do that for great characters. Now, I'm sort of hoping the Lannister's stick it to Dorne (though I'm still pissed at how Cersei treated Margaery).

My Top 5:

1. Ramsay Bolton
2. Oberyn's Ex
3. Walder Frey
4. High Sparrow and Female Jailer
5. Thorne

 

[LafayetteBear]

Oh, I think he's going to....



Amazing that Cersei isn't even in your Top Five, right? I mean, everyone loved Oberyn, but he lost fair and square - his arrogance did him in. His brother knows this which is why he's not doing anything about it. Cersei used to be at or near the top of everyone's 'love to hate' list and now she's mostly an afterthought. Amazing how great writing will do that for great characters. Now, I'm sort of hoping the Lannister's stick it to Dorne (though I'm still pissed at how Cersei treated Margaery).

My Top 5:

1. Ramsay Bolton
2. Oberyn's Ex
3. Walder Frey
4. High Sparrow and Female Jailer
5. Thorne

LOL, I originally had Walder Frey on my list, but took him off only because he was not featured in the opening episode and I was posting in response to that episode. But I would seriously love to see old man Frey get his comeuppance. Preferably from Arya and Needle.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

LOL, I originally had Walder Frey on my list, but took him off only because he was not featured in the opening episode and I was posting in response to that episode. But I would seriously love to see old man Frey get his comeuppance. Preferably from Arya and Needle.

Is the one Tully brother/uncle/cousin (who married the one super hot Frey daughter) still in jail or even still alive? I remember they locked him up after his wedding but don't think we've heard from him since.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Good question. I don't recall any further references to him. Guess he will rot in jail.

So, is it the necklace that is Melisandre's "fountain of youth?" She aged only (and immediately) after removing it.

Also, has the King of the White Walkers raised a giant to be part of his army? Thought I saw one quick photo of the White Walker army with a giant in it, but it was so quick I could not be certain.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Good question. I don't recall any further references to him. Guess he will rot in jail.

So, is it the necklace that is Melisandre's "fountain of youth?" She aged only (and immediately) after removing it.

Also, has the King of the White Walkers raised a giant to be part of his army? Thought I saw one quick photo of the White Walker army with a giant in it, but it was so quick I could not be certain.

Seems to be some debate about the necklace and whether or not that is the source of her 'glamour'. She's taken it off before...

But, this scene is one where, if you are willing to consider that the audience sees her as we know her, but the person she's speaking to (Stannis's daughter Selyse) doesn't, there is this theory:

The dialogue in this scene, in which she is in the tub without the choker, implies that Selyse is seeing her true old form but the viewer is still seeing her in her young form; the dialogue revolves around deception and potions and ultimately Melisandre telling Selyse she did not use a potion to have sex with Stannis justifying to Selyse that “the flesh wants what the flesh wants” which is answered with a shudder. I think this scene, looking back now, was a hint on this twist.

Could be that, and/or the potion featured in last night's scene, but maybe just a continuity error by the showrunners.

 

[LafayetteBear]

Lookee what I stumbled upon...

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/24/game-thrones-melisandre-age

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Lookee what I stumbled upon...

http://www.ew.com/article/2016/04/24/game-thrones-melisandre-age

Yup, read that. I thought the comments from the director were most interesting/insightful:

Podeswa can’t go there, but he did find our observation from our recap of “The Red Woman” intriguing – that having Melisandre crawl into bed was so effective because it married a magical reveal with a relatable and mundane activity.

“That’s an interesting way of looking at it,” the director replies, “but there’s another aspect as well: At that moment, it’s a telling gestural thing to do. She’s questioning her power and ability to prosthelytize. She’s at her lowest point, looking at the mirror and her true self. It’s a sign of her frailty. You’re seeing her at her most vulnerable moment.”

 

[JBDLion]

Edmure Tully is still captive. His uncle escaped the Red Wedding (went to take a leak just before the massacre). Both will appear this season.

Midnighter already mentioned the prior scene with no necklace. The only thing I'l add...in that scene, she did put a potion in the bath. In last night's scene, they did zoom in on a potion. So if not solely the necklace, a potion could be involved. Or the power could have to do with the strength of her faith. Or Selyse did see her as she truly was.

No giant wights from all promo screen caps I've seen so far. Not saying it won't happen though.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Edmure Tully is still captive. His uncle escaped the Red Wedding (went to take a leak just before the massacre). Both will appear this season.

Midnighter already mentioned the prior scene with no necklace. The only thing I'l add...in that scene, she did put a potion in the bath. In last night's scene, they did zoom in on a potion. So if not solely the necklace, a potion could be involved. Or the power could have to do with the strength of her faith. Or Selyse did see her as she truly was.

No giant wights from all promo screen caps I've seen so far. Not saying it won't happen though.

Is he still married to the hot Frey (Roslin)? If so, maybe not that bad of a deal...

 

[JBDLion]

Is he still married to the hot Frey (Roslin)? If so, maybe not that bad of a deal...

After the Red Wedding, Walder Frey mentions Edmure will be spending the night in the cells. I'm assuming he was able to consummate (he is the heir to Riverrun, Walder will want that card in case anyone questions his authority) but it's likely he's been a solo prisoner since.