OT: LIV Golf and PGA Merge
- Thread starter Obliviax
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We have a precedent. Look at how the media treats the NBA for sucking up to China. Everyone on ESPN has a case of chapstick to fix wear and tear from kissing Chinese #sses.
Who the f cares… these guys on tour don’t even clip their own nails. Anybody that has catered to them knows how soft and pampered they are. I’ve seen first hand being in the hotel business. Saudi $$$ is everywhere. Get a life. Enjoy it while you can golfers. Crap the tradition. The Masters is a perfect example of a bad tradition.
The Masters is an incredible tradition, and is such a breath of fresh air in this era of corporate greed.
Yep, but it just comes down to the world we live in now and it's all about one thing - MONEY. Loyalty? What's that. Sad, but just the way it is.
Next you're going to tell me that college athletes aren't really students.
Respectfully, I am not sure today is any different from in the past. Lets not forget the changes Hollywood and the NBA have made to accommodate human rights issues in China to make sure the money spigot didn't stop.
What is concerning is this notion of "sports-washing" money. This is a derivative of "money laundering". The notion is that China, Saudi Arabia and Russian billionaires/companies are buying into sports to "launder" money that has been realized through ill-gotten means.
What ends up happening is that there isn't a level playing field between American business interests, which have played by American business rules, and international business interests built with tightly questionable to illegal means.
You make some solid points but the difference is that - as we all know - that it was Saudi Arabia that was responsible for 9 / 11 - ON AMERICAN SOIL - just 20 years ago and still fresh in our minds. Yes, politics shouldn't play into sports but it does. China and Russia. Of course they're enemies but just not "in your face" types like Saudi Arabia in 2001. As for China, you have to go back to the Korean War to openly killing Americans.
Mickelson ? Biggest a-hole out there. After calling them "some scary MFs", he ran and took their money." And he's worth what, Hundreds of millions of dollars?
All good points. Saudi investment is all over America as is Russia, China and the rest. It is an interesting and complicated balance one what is OK and what exposes us to worse. Tom Friedman wrote a book and in it he outlines that nations with financial interest in each other don't go to war. They find a way. They don't want to damage their financial interests by going to war. Better said, "keep your friends close and your enemies closer".
It looks to me like the PGA decided to fight LIV but the PGA hadn't a) considered the deep pockets of the enemy b) hasn't made a move to grow the game (internationally) and c) didn't consider the anti-trust exposure of trying to lock LIV out of competing in the USA. In the end, the lawyers were going to be the ones who made the money while the PGA got sucked dry and SA simply paid out of a bottomless pit of money.
The PGA got approached with a way to save face and further the game but they had to dance with the devil. However, they were going to have to dance with the devil in some fashion anyway. They did the best they could with what they had.
On a side note, the govt has to approve this monopoly of golf. It will be interesting to see what they do. Conversely, SA announced they were cutting oil production a few days ago, which will drive up energy prices and hurt our economy. My bet is that the govt is with the GPA and the SA investors suggesting SA changes its oil production policies if they expect this to go through.
Agree with your points but it comes down to many just not accepting anything Saudi backed. 9/ 11 still seems like a bad dream especially when the networks televised them celebrating in their country. I will never forget it.
agreed. the "fight" of our lives is globalism. I put "fight" in quotes because I don't know if it is good or bad. We are clearly seeing the dilution of America, be that good or bad. We have far more influence from EU, China, Russia, SA, and Africa than we did ten or twenty years ago. There are no boundaries for investments and eroding boundaries between physical nations. There is a newer term being used, "Global Citizen". There is no such thing. But we are being asked to buy into Global Citizenship to fight COVID (and other healthcare issues), economies, currencies, climate change, etc. I mean, just two years ago the mantra was "nobody is safe until everybody is safe". Again, not saying it is right or wrong. It is probably inevitable. But how this plays out is the lasting effect we'll leave the world when we are long gone. We are the ones storming Normandy but doing it digitally.
Phil looks like a money-grubber who doesn't care about the game of golf. Very little that is good can come out of this because the Saudis only have money and no real interest in the game. Worth noting that one of the greatest spectacles in sports the Ryder Cup is played by players who don't get paid simply because they enjoy representing their country and competing. A lot of that is going to go away.
that is my emotional position but then I stop and realize half the great PGA players are not Americans. Rahm, Rory, Lowry, Matsuyama, Hovland....Why are they here and not playing in Euro or Asian circuits? Money. The purses and endorsement money is here. So how are the LIV players different? As DJ said "Less work and more pay, easy decision."
It is an interesting aspect of it all...LIV was fighting the fact that the PGA alone violated anti-trust; now that PGA, LIV, and Euro Tours are combined, it obviously only moved further towards a monopoly.
yep, and my experience is that got govt will "look the other way" if incented to do so. In the end, nobody is going to suffer if PGA events where shorts and play music at Pebble for the AT&T challenge. If I am the administration, I am on the phone with the Saudi investors suggesting they use their speed dial with the OPECers.
How much do they get from. the epitome of corporate greed, AT&T, every year? Not to mention IBM, can you get more corporate than those two burecratic, greedy companies?
Meanwhile was there a single fan. oh I mean "patron" of color in attendance this year? The whole place reeks of southern white elitism. And I'm a golf fan who grew up playing the game.
They could certainly make a lot more from their sponsors if they were willing to go to a "normal" number of commercial breaks...but they still limit it in an era of every other non-soccer sport jamming in as many commercials as possible. They are still a place that prices their tickets well under market value, gives free parking, gives an unmatched fan experience while on the grounds, prices their concessions so far under "major event" market-value that it's legendary, etc. You don't see the hospitality tents, corporate logos, etc that you see at every other major event. Like I said...they are the opposite of greed when it comes to the $ they are making vs. what they could be making if they wanted.
Don't think the diversity of the crowd the couple times I was there was any different than the diversity you'd see across most golf courses in the US, or what I've seen at every other golf tournament.
On the plus side for them, 50 years after they're dead and gone their descendants won't be ashamed of them, unlike with the PGA officials and Koepka and Mickelson.
The thing that gets me about the LIV hate is that I don’t remember any liberals bashing Saudi Arabia or blaming them for 9/11 prior to 2018. In fact, you were likely to be accused of Islamophobia if you criticized the Saudis.
Then Saudi Arabia expressed support for Donald Trump ending the Iran Nuclear Deal and everything changed.
Then Saudi Arabia expressed support for Donald Trump ending the Iran Nuclear Deal and everything changed.
Epitome of southern white elitism. They are too uppity to have other sponsors so that makes them good guys, okay.
And they very well could be making as much as other tournaments with less sponsors who are paying a major premium. And if they are so pristine why do they allow the players to wear all their sponsor stuff. Go to a uniform then.
I believe money is a substantial part of it, but the goal of playing against the best competition, I believe, is more important. Peter Thompson won about 5 British Opens in the 50s, and outside of Britain he is rarely remembered. If you want to be respected and remembered for your skills, you have to win majors, 3 of 4 of which are on the American tour.
The problem is all of those LIV players were playing in the majors too. I agree that the majors make your legacy. Nobody cares if you win the John Deere classic four times. So the LIV players make more money, do half the work, and STILL play the majors
Over time Liv players would have been excluded from the majors because they couldn't earn world ranking points. Past champions of majors like koepka had some residual exemptions. Long-term most of the Liv players would have been excluded from the majors.
I hear you. I don't know if you saw my post from yesterday but it was confirmed that Jon Rahm was about to sign with LIV and that was one of the things that caused the PGA to crumble.
This had the potential to do to golf what the Indy Car/Formula 5000 rift did to open-wheel racing in the USA. Today, open-wheel racing is almost DOA and now we see Formula 1 moving in and taking over (Austin, Miami, Vegas, Montreal). The PGA's viewship was down due to their lack of star power (I am talking about the colonial, john deere classic, and the like) and LIV had little exposure and a God-awful fan experience. They were in a death match where neither one was going to win.
I do have to give a little respect to Monahan in that regard. He and the PGA were screwed. Rham was about to leave. The lawsuits were going to be expensive and damaging. There is a better than 50% chance that the PGA was going to lose. He made a mistake forwarding the "Blood Money/Terrorists" angle. But realized he had very little choice in the long run so cut the best deal he could knowing he'd get roasted. He stepped into the fire.
And then those who one those championships would be less than true champions.
You must have missed the increased purses and other player friendly changes the PGA implemented right after LIV came into existence. I am sure that was a pure coincidence.
I am not sure your point. Most of these players took a GUARANTEED $100m plus contract. How many PGA run-of-the-mill events would you have to play to make $100m? But that isn't all. LIV events are three days. That allows players to start their week with a Thursday practice round and complete Sunday afternoon/evening. What that does is give them Monday~Wednesday to be with family. Most are young men just starting or having a family.
As DJ said "easy choice. Half the work and double the money. What would you do?"
They would be true champions of the tournaments they won against very good fields. If Liv had failed, which many people expected, then the champions of these fields would have been recognized the same as the previous champions before the advent of liv. for now, it is a moot question.
Depends on whether you care about your long-term Legacy and your skills as a golfer. If you are playing for the money and don't care that much about your skills, then you have the DJ attitude. Neither Tiger Woods nor Jack Nicklaus would have this attitude. The other question is whether fans would be interested in watching lots of golfers with the attitude of DJ.
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yeah, LIV was going to wreck the PGA tour as money was not an issue as the Saudi's could spend a few billion over the next 2-3 years. Rahm was leaving and then LIV would just to target the Scheffler and start going down the list picking off the top young guys and trying to get Speith or Thomas or other bigger name down the list golfers. And ultimately would TV viewers tune into the LIV tour let's say in 3 or 4 years if essentially 75% of the top names and players are in the LIV?
So allowing their players to keep their agreements with their own sponsors makes The Masters itself greedy? Interesting take.
And I'm sure they make a bunch off of their 3 sponsors...but they could obviously be making a boatload more $ if they wanted too, off of corporations and off of their fans. Instead, they do everything they can to give their fans an unmatched experience at incredible reasonable prices.
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