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OT: LIV Golf and PGA Merge

Obliviax said:
Back to Rory, $850m would be tough to pass up. As DJ said, "As a professional golfer, it was a simple choice. I can play half the time and make twice the money no matter the result."
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It really comes down to what they want for their future, legacy, etc. Would you rather take a huge bundle of $$$ and work less, or continue playing on the best circuit in the world and keep grinding to improve, have access to majors, playing in more prestigious events in front of more fans, etc. It would be a tough choice for me, as once you have the $ that these guys have, winning big events/majors and cementing a legacy might trump even more $.

Personally, whether he stays or goes won't affect how much golf I watch or my interest level in any event. There are so many good young players on the tour right now
 
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I'm surprised that he isn't going to LIV. It was reported that he is moving back to the UK. I assumed it was a precursor to joining LIV.
 
pretty interesting observation by one of the game's best, Gary Player. I recently saw an interview with Scottie Scheffler's coach. Scottie, if you didn't know, has won 5 of his last six tournaments including a very difficult Masters (he came in second in the one he didn't win). His coach said that Scottie has no weaknesses and they weren't working on anything. he went on to say that this was the first time he's said that or can think of any other golf coach saying. It gave him anxiety to say it because it sounds so bad but after examining Scottie's play, could come to no other conclusion other than to ride it out for as long as they can.

 
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I’m not quite sure what derailed Jordon Spieth’s career but I think he “monkeyed” around with his swing too much as well. Perhaps trying to chase distance. However, I don’t believe he ever changed coaches.
 
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Obliviax said:
pretty interesting observation by one of the game's best, Gary Player. I recently saw an interview with Scottie Scheffler's coach. Scottie, if you didn't know, has won 5 of his last six tournaments including a very difficult Masters (he came in second in the one he didn't win). His coach said that Scottie has no weaknesses and they weren't working on anything. he went on to say that this was the first time he's said that or can think of any other golf coach saying. It gave him anxiety to say it because it sounds so bad but after examining Scottie's play, could come to no other conclusion other than to ride it out for as long as they can.

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I don't think Gary player is giving enough credit to Butch Harmon who was originally tigers first pro coach. It seemed like Butch helped tiger a lot. Also, Player's comments about the coaches are sort of funny because I remember hearing multiple times that Gary Player was always fooling around with his swing and would even listen to journalists.
 
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dailybuck777 said:
I don't think Gary player is giving enough credit to Butch Harmon who was originally tigers first pro coach. It seemed like Butch helped tiger a lot. Also, Player's comments about the coaches are sort of funny because I remember hearing multiple times that Gary Player was always fooling around with his swing and would even listen to journalists.
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Didn't Tiger replace Butch at some point in the middle of his career? maybe player was trying to say he screwed up by moving on from Butch.

Secondly, while Player won nine majors, he never had the complete game Tiger did.
 
ncgolfer said:
I’m not quite sure what derailed Jordon Speith’s career but I think he “monkeyed” around with his swing too much as well. Perhaps trying to chase distance. However, I don’t believe he ever changed coaches.
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I think what derailed his career was throwing away a Masters he was leading by 4 shots when he had a 7 on the 12th hole. He lost confidence and learned how to lose. If you look at him when he was younger, he was 100% positive and couldn't wait to hit his next shot. Similar thing happened to Tom Watson later in his career when his formerly great putting deserted him.
 
dailybuck777 said:
I think what derailed his career was throwing away a Masters he was leading by 4 shots when he had a 7 on the 12th hole. He lost confidence and learned how to lose. If you look at him when he was younger, he was 100% positive and couldn't wait to hit his next shot. Similar thing happened to Tom Watson later in his career when his formerly great putting deserted him.
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well, at some point, you just aren't that good anymore. LaBron learning that now. Father Time is undefeated.

I guess the point is, did Tiger do (or not do) something that contributed to lower playing quality? Was it under his control?
 
Obliviax said:
well, at some point, you just aren't that good anymore. LaBron learning that now. Father Time is undefeated.

I guess the point is, did Tiger do (or not do) something that contributed to lower playing quality? Was it under his control?
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When Spieth won about three majors he was about 23 years old. He is around 31 or 32 now and should be in his prime. His recent decline I don't think has anything to do with age.
 
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dailybuck777 said:
When Spieth won about three majors he was about 23 years old. He is around 31 or 32 now and should be in his prime. His recent decline I don't think has anything to do with age.
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I agree with that. Rory is in a similar boat but his game hasn't declined as much as Speith.

I've always been a choker. I am the guy who misses that key free throw. Why? Because I care too much and have been overly competitive. I've always thought to not choke you have to either be a) super smart to be able to overcome pressure and b) super dumb to not be aware enough to care. For example, MJ and Bird in basketball are super smart. Manny Ramirez is super dumb.

I think Speith and Rory fall into a similar category. The mess with LIV may be to blame for Rory, the PGA totally hung him out to dry. But once this starts, you start over tweaking your game. And I don't think their problems are in the swing but in the mental toughness.

I note that Scheffler, at the pinnacle unrivaled since tiger, is trying NOT to think or tinker right now. He's just trying to play in the moment. But that is, of course, wiser when you won five of six including a Masters. I recall Reggie Miller going OFF against the Knicks in the playoffs. He was just unconscious. The knicks coach called a timeout after Reggie hit a turnaround, fade-away 3-point jumper while being blanketed. Reggie ran to the end of the bench, didn't join the huddle, and tried not to think.
 
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dailybuck777 said:
I think what derailed his career was throwing away a Masters he was leading by 4 shots when he had a 7 on the 12th hole. He lost confidence and learned how to lose. If you look at him when he was younger, he was 100% positive and couldn't wait to hit his next shot. Similar thing happened to Tom Watson later in his career when his formerly great putting deserted him.
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I agree that Spieth’s disaster at the Masters had to be catastrophic to his psyche but he did manage to come back after that disaster to win the British Open the following year. But he never had the same magic again that he had when he first came out on tour. When you mentioned Spieth’s disaster it reminded me of two other final round disasters in major championship golf. There have been other disasters but these two standout in my mind. Greg Norman’s final round collapse at the 1996 Masters to Nick Faldo. And the worst defeat (IMO) I have ever seen in major championship golf…….. Jean Van de Velde’s 18th hole at the 1999 British Open. Then the playoff loss that followed. Stupidy combined with disaster to create the worst and most humiliating moment that I can ever recall in golf. Major championship or not. If I had suffered the 18th hole disaster that Van de Velde did I might have retired (on the spot) from tournament golf.
 
ncgolfer said:
Jean Van de Velde’s 18th hole at the 1999 British Open.
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I felt so sorry for him. All he had to do was lay up and he had the Open in the bag. When interviewed he said he felt it wasn't sporting to lay up. Might be the difference between the French and the English.
 
Chickenman Testa said:
Interesting grip on that iron shot
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yep. he's got, what appears to be, a left-handed club but is using a right-handed grip with a right-handed swing glove. So if he is to strike the ball with the club face, he has to be swinging back-handed.
 
Wow...while I am no longer shocked when anyone files for divorce, especially the wealthy, I didn't see this coming. Rory has had a head of a ride these last 18 months.

 
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Obliviax said:
this is interesting

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www.golfdigest.com

Will money ruin the chase for greatness? How LIV Golf pushed the game into a lucrative limbo

With the ‘irrational’ financial offers that have destabilized pro golf, LIV has drained the sport of some of its passion and intensity.
www.golfdigest.com www.golfdigest.com
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Yeah, without a real TV deal and big crowds, these guys fall off the map quick. A few still matter because they are still in the mix for majors, but it’s senior-tour esque if you don’t. And the few that are still in the mix better not tail off at all because then true obscurity awaits. I mean Koepka looks disgusted being surrounded by clowns like Perez.
 
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Chickenman Testa said:
Yeah, without a real TV deal and big crowds, these guys fall off the map quick. A few still matter because they are still in the mix for majors, but it’s senior-tour esque if you don’t. And the few that are still in the mix better not tail off at all because then true obscurity awaits. I mean Koepka looks disgusted being surrounded by clowns like Perez.
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yep. the model has some flaws. I am reminded of the notion of Rich and Famous. A guy like Rahm wants to leave a legacy. Unless LIV combines with the PGA, he will only get exposure in four events (Open, Open, PGA, Master). That isn't enough.

Secondly, LIV has no feeder system.
 
ncgolfer said:
I’m not quite sure what derailed Jordon Spieth’s career but I think he “monkeyed” around with his swing too much as well. Perhaps trying to chase distance. However, I don’t believe he ever changed coaches.
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Spieth, Fowler and Rham all got married and their careers suffered. Why???
 
Fayette_LION said:
Spieth, Fowler and Rham all got married and their careers suffered. Why???
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LOL...Scottie slammed his SW into the bunker after a bad shot today. He's never been like that, Never. I can imagine it is from demands by his wife and young child right now.
 
Scottie's caddie made more than every PGA pro not in the top 25.

 
What makes pga interesting to me is the competition. They don’t make the cut they don’t get paid period. LIV golf might as well be NBA. Boring as ?%^*!! as far as I’m concerned. I feel the LIV guys will grow fat lazy and happy. I don’t blame them for taking the money but I have no interest in watching them. Zero.
 
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Obliviax said:
yep. the model has some flaws. I am reminded of the notion of Rich and Famous. A guy like Rahm wants to leave a legacy. Unless LIV combines with the PGA, he will only get exposure in four events (Open, Open, PGA, Master). That isn't enough.

Secondly, LIV has no feeder system.
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yea, Rahm winning the Poulan Weedeater Open in kansas will help seal hus legacy.
 
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b&w1987 said:
What makes pga interesting to me is the competition. They don’t make the cut they don’t get paid period. LIV golf might as well be NBA. Boring as ?%^*!! as far as I’m concerned. I feel the LIV guys will grow fat lazy and happy. I don’t blame them for taking the money but I have no interest in watching them. Zero.
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watching Patrick Cantlay is must see TV.
 
Obliviax said:
Scottie's caddie made more than every PGA pro not in the top 25.

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I like Jon Rahm but if this is his real statement I'm a bit disappointed. Scotty accomplished great things whereas Jon simply took a great deal of money in exchange for his public image. Liv golf doesn't care about golf in general and is only here for a few years to suck it dry for its own purposes.

No one would care about professional golfers if not for the history and tradition of the major championships and also the skills and dedication involved in winning regular established tour events. Taking Rahm's position to its logical conclusion, he shouldn't have been interested in playing for an Olympic medal because he wouldn't get any money or the money he would get would be nominal.
 
dailybuck777 said:
I like Jon Rahm but if this is his real statement I'm a bit disappointed. Scotty accomplished great things whereas Jon simply took a great deal of money in exchange for his public image. Liv golf doesn't care about golf in general and is only here for a few years to suck it dry for its own purposes.

No one would care about professional golfers if not for the history and tradition of the major championships and also the skills and dedication involved in winning regular established tour events. Taking Rahm's position to its logical conclusion, he shouldn't have been interested in playing for an Olympic medal because he wouldn't get any money or the money he would get would be nominal.
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I don't believe Rahm had anything to do with the statement. I think it is just Golf Mag posting a hypothetical: the money or victories (and money). In fact, there are a lot of rumors that Rahm has tried to see if he can get out of his contract and go back to the PGA.

These guys who are at the top of the top are making tens of millions per year and most haven't reached 35 yet. So lets say you have $100m in the bank and get offered to play LIV for $150m. Why would you do that? I mean, does that second $100m make that big of a difference in how you live your life? Rory said it best when he turned them down saying anytime he made a decision based only on money it didn't turn out well. Lefty makes sense because he was really done in terms of competing for championships.
 
Ought to be big time television. Interesting sub text is that Koepka was dissing Bryson several years ago.
 
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