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OT: More JZ - part 1 of a 2 hour interview (audio link)

not going to make this political, but there was a recent drive to recount votes in Wisconsin. the candidate who won Wisconsin strenuously objected and tried to get the recount shut down. the recount has so far given that candidate more votes.

which makes one suspicious why he was so afraid of a recount.

I am curious why these relentless haters are so afraid of a re trial.
Perhaps that candidate strongly felt that the voters should be spared the expense of the recount.

Disagreement does not necessarily indicate fear. Nor does it indicate hatred.

You nullify your credibility when you label those that disagree as "relentless haters". But that type of immaturity seems to be your standard MO.
 
And the victims who did not testify yet.
"Victims" who didn't testify yet.

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As far as the irreparable damage that PSU absorbed (reputation and financial), the destruction of JVP's reputation and unnecessary pain and anguish visited upon Tim, Gary and Graham......I believe the degree of guilt (Sandusky) does indeed matter. If he was touching boys inappropriately(I believe this) and other such nonsense, he is sick and belongs in prison. But the national outcry is about the allegations that he preformed anal sex and oral sex on children........I am very very skeptical that this ever happened. You have evidence on tape of PSP conspiring to extract testimony from a "victim."So you are a little simple if the degree of guilt does not matter in reference to what this saga has done to PSU.
 
As far as the irreparable damage that PSU absorbed (reputation and financial), the destruction of JVP's reputation and unnecessary pain and anguish visited upon Tim, Gary and Graham......I believe the degree of guilt (Sandusky) does indeed matter. If he was touching boys inappropriately(I believe this) and other such nonsense, he is sick and belongs in prison. But the national outcry is about the allegations that he preformed anal sex and oral sex on children........I am very very skeptical that this ever happened. You have evidence on tape of PSP conspiring to extract testimony from a "victim."So you are a little simple if the degree of guilt does not matter in reference to what this saga has done to PSU.
That degree of guilt might have mattered 5 years ago but that window of opportunity has long passed. The damage has been done and the degree of Sandusky's guilt will have no effect on the perceptions by the public of those damaged reputations.
 
That degree of guilt might have mattered 5 years ago but that window of opportunity has long passed. The damage has been done and the degree of Sandusky's guilt will have no effect on the perceptions by the public of those damaged reputations.
Not to mention the victims testified to more than just snapping towels or naked bear hugs. PSU fans saying....nahh...I just don't believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It more like they just want to deny it happened because it's truly that disgusting which it is. I honestly stopped caring what outsiders had to say a long time ago, but a few here are still holding on to hope it was all just a big mistake. It's a special sort of denial.
 
I think this is a straw man argument. If the Aaron Fisher case were to fall apart, I believe the whole mess blows up sky high.

I'd like to know why the prospect of that frightens you?
How does Aaron Fisher's case have any bearing on what Jerry did the to other victims? So if he didn't molest Aaron then he didn't molest victim 9?

It doesn't frighten me all all. You are being ridiculous.
 
It matters because it shows that his recollecton (and record keeping) was SO bad, he couldn't get fundamental facts strait. How is he possibly supposed to recall the word choices he made with his father, dranov, paterno, curley, schultz......
and perhaps that is why his answers were "I would have said" rather than "I said"
 
Not to mention the victims testified to more than just snapping towels or naked bear hugs. PSU fans saying....nahh...I just don't believe it doesn't mean it didn't happen. It more like they just want to deny it happened because it's truly that disgusting which it is. I honestly stopped caring what outsiders had to say a long time ago, but a few here are still holding on to hope it was all just a big mistake. It's a special sort of denial.
It is a special sort of quest for a "fair" trial for an individual as well. There are no doubt thousands that have been convicted through even more questionable legal proceedings, yet most here are only focused on Jerry's plight. I don't see them fighting for justice for other individuals on a broader scale, just poor ole Jer. That doesn't provide much credibility for their legal system failure arguments.
 
How does Aaron Fisher's case have any bearing on what Jerry did the to other victims? So if he didn't molest Aaron then he didn't molest victim 9?

It doesn't frighten me all all. You are being ridiculous.

The other "victims" only came out with accusations of sex after they were made aware of Aaron's accusation. For example, the only other victim who make accusations of sex before the November, 2011 grand jury presentment was victim 4. Victim 4 initially did not make accusations of sex; but after his infamous interview with Corporal Leiter that was recorded on tape where Leiter mentioned there were others who had accused Sandusky of sex (i.e. Aaron Fisher), victim 4 also makes accusations of sex.
 
Call it whatever you like.....but there is no denying that every "victim" denied abuse initially, then ran to the bank with a 3 million dollar settlement. That should bring out the skeptic in anyone.
That's not true at all. Every victim did not deny the abuse initially.
 
It is a special sort of quest for a "fair" trial for an individual as well. There are no doubt thousands that have been convicted through even more questionable legal proceedings, yet most here are only focused on Jerry's plight. I don't see them fighting for justice for other individuals on a broader scale, just poor ole Jer. That doesn't provide much credibility for their legal system failure arguments.
Actually if you've followed the conversations here, many have stated that they don't care if Sandusky received a fair trail or that his type of crime didn't warrant it. So in objecting to the way the OAG constructed and prosecuted the case against JS, it is in fact an objection to the abuse of power and denial of rights to all accused. That is a major concern for me and I believe others here.
 
How does Aaron Fisher's case have any bearing on what Jerry did the to other victims? So if he didn't molest Aaron then he didn't molest victim 9?

It doesn't frighten me all all. You are being ridiculous.

Victim 9 is the accuser that made the absurd claim that he had lunch with Sandusky and Joe Paterno in Beaver Stadium.
 
Call it whatever you like.....but there is no denying that every "victim" denied abuse initially, then ran to the bank with a 3 million dollar settlement. That should bring out the skeptic in anyone.
agreed, at least a deeper review.
 
and perhaps that is why his answers were "I would have said" rather than "I said"
Devil's advocate: His lawyers probably told him not to say "I said..." unless he explicitly remembered exactly what he said, or had a record of what he said, back in 2001. Given that it was 10 years earlier, he probably didn't remember it exactly, so he phrased it in a manner that was likely suggested to him ("I would have said...") to protect him from any sort of potential legal issues stemming from his testimony in case someone else did somehow have a record of his exact words that may not match McQ's 2011 testimony.

I'm just hypothesizing. It's also possible he was knowingly dishonest. But the phrasing alone doesn't really tell you anything either way.
 
Actually if you've followed the conversations here, many have stated that they don't care if Sandusky received a fair trail or that his type of crime didn't warrant it. So in objecting to the way the OAG constructed and prosecuted the case against JS, it is in fact an objection to the abuse of power and denial of rights to all accused. That is a major concern for me and I believe others here.
When you start visiting other inmates and champion their unfair trials you will gain some credibility. Otherwise your argument has no credibility as an effort to address any abuse other than what your chosen one has experienced. Your focus is Jerry, not others.
 
It is a special sort of quest for a "fair" trial for an individual as well. There are no doubt thousands that have been convicted through even more questionable legal proceedings, yet most here are only focused on Jerry's plight. I don't see them fighting for justice for other individuals on a broader scale, just poor ole Jer. That doesn't provide much credibility for their legal system failure arguments.

certainly in my case only because this is one I have followed due to my feelings for PSU. What it has done has made me very nervous about our legal system and really nervous when I realize how many seem only to care about the results not "how we got there "
 
When you start visiting other inmates and champion their unfair trials you will gain some credibility. Otherwise your argument has no credibility as an effort to address any abuse other than what your chosen one has experienced. Your focus is Jerry, not others.
I am missing your point? For many of us this is our first glimpse into the legal system. Because we haven't visited or championed other cases doesn't make one bit of difference in this case. 20 or 200 wrongs doesn't minimize any one specific wrong does it?
 
It is a special sort of quest for a "fair" trial for an individual as well. There are no doubt thousands that have been convicted through even more questionable legal proceedings, yet most here are only focused on Jerry's plight. I don't see them fighting for justice for other individuals on a broader scale, just poor ole Jer. That doesn't provide much credibility for their legal system failure arguments.
Because it's not really about Jerry's "fair" trial, it's the hope that somehow it didn't happen for a few here. Have you ever seen so much concern for a convicted serial pedophile anywhere in your life? Well he may have only licked a few of them...WTF.
 
Because it's not really about Jerry's "fair" trial, it's the hope that somehow it didn't happen for a few here. Have you ever seen so much concern for a convicted serial pedophile anywhere in your life? Well he may have only licked a few of them...WTF.
If this happened at any other school, these same people would be hurling insults left and right.

Step one for anyone worried about this happening to them is simply "don't be a serial pedophile." Then many more than a handful of crazy people on BWI will give a damn to see if your trial was "fair" or not.
 
If this happened at any other school, these same people would be hurling insults left and right.

Step one for anyone worried about this happening to them is simply "don't be a serial pedophile." Then many more than a handful of crazy people on BWI will give a damn to see if your trial was "fair" or not.

i wish it were that simple.
 
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If this happened at any other school, these same people would be hurling insults left and right.

Step one for anyone worried about this happening to them is simply "don't be a serial pedophile." Then many more than a handful of crazy people on BWI will give a damn to see if your trial was "fair" or not.

Yep. I don't see any of these guys worrying about the catholic church who paid out money to those "stinking lying kids". I mean if the church paid them, it was about money as abuse doesn't happen. Said no sane person ever.
 
If this happened at any other school, these same people would be hurling insults left and right.

Step one for anyone worried about this happening to them is simply "don't be a serial pedophile." Then many more than a handful of crazy people on BWI will give a damn to see if your trial was "fair" or not.
If it happened at any other school it would be interesting to see the reaction of those here to others hanging on to JZ's every word as the gospel.
 
When you start visiting other inmates and champion their unfair trials you will gain some credibility. Otherwise your argument has no credibility as an effort to address any abuse other than what your chosen one has experienced. Your focus is Jerry, not others.
You are full of crap to make that statement because you know nothing about me. In fact I have worked with inmates over a period of time in upstate NY and have seen individuals released as dna evidence etc. has exonerated them after spending more than a decade in maximum security prisons.
I don't need credibility with a piece of shit like you. Why the hell would I care what an ass like you thinks of me? Go suck on a tailpipe.
 
Perhaps that candidate strongly felt that the voters should be spared the expense of the recount.

Disagreement does not necessarily indicate fear. Nor does it indicate hatred.

You nullify your credibility when you label those that disagree as "relentless haters". But that type of immaturity seems to be your standard MO.

yawn
 
When you start visiting other inmates and champion their unfair trials you will gain some credibility. Otherwise your argument has no credibility as an effort to address any abuse other than what your chosen one has experienced. Your focus is Jerry, not others.
The longer this goes on, the weaker the arguments get! Talk about a reach!
 
Yep. I don't see any of these guys worrying about the catholic church who paid out money to those "stinking lying kids". I mean if the church paid them, it was about money as abuse doesn't happen. Said no sane person ever.
In fairness, I believe you would agree.....the Catholic Church didn't pay vicitms 3 million each.
 
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So what does that have to do with Aaron?

V9 only came forward after the November grand jury presentation so Aaron's accusation was publicly known.

By using victim 9's absurd claim that he had lunch with Sandusky and Joe Paterno in Beaver Stadium, I was just pointing out that it may have been better to use a more plausible victim. Even Ray Blehar doesn't have a lot of faith in victim 9's story.
 
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Not the "victim" that matters!
Right as the only victim that matters to you is the one that deals with PSU. The rest don't matter as this is only about PSU to you. Whether or not Jerry molested 7 other kids...who cares..you are on a mission for the school. Maybe they'll put up a statue of the BWI Jerry crusaders once this big misunderstanding gets cleared up.

Thanks for posting this as people need to see where you guys are coming from. PSU first...those dirty scumbag single home d-bags ruined so much. They probably wanted it from Jerry too. :rolleyes:
 
In fairness, I believe you would agree.....the Catholic Church didn't pay vicitms 3 million each.
Well yeah...they weren't as dumb as the leadership up at PSU either. I think they got off for half a billion for 3000 or so victims. Mind boggling that the school allowed one man to do so much damage when this was all found out 2 years after he was retired.
 
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It is a special sort of quest for a "fair" trial for an individual as well. There are no doubt thousands that have been convicted through even more questionable legal proceedings, yet most here are only focused on Jerry's plight. I don't see them fighting for justice for other individuals on a broader scale, just poor ole Jer. That doesn't provide much credibility for their legal system failure arguments.


Where did you pull this out of your ass, and what is the relevance to Penn State?
 
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Right as the only victim that matters to you is the one that deals with PSU. The rest don't matter as this is only about PSU to you. Whether or not Jerry molested 7 other kids...who cares..you are on a mission for the school. Maybe they'll put up a statue of the BWI Jerry crusaders once this big misunderstanding gets cleared up.

You seem to eventually resort to the same "Ped State" type of slurs that we all have heard at stadiums around the country.
Wanting a fair trial and some rational explanations for what many consider dubious prosecution methods, IS NOT crusading for Jerry Sandusky's innocence. It may be an opportunity to get to more truth and discover what actually happened and what motivated the OAG and others to implicate PSU. If you actually read what I have written, I conjectured that what Jerry did deservedly put him behind bars. Where we seem to differ is, I would like to know what is fact and what has been manufactured. There are in my opinion, many things that don't add up. For instance, the crying janitor............
 
Right as the only victim that matters to you is the one that deals with PSU. The rest don't matter as this is only about PSU to you. Whether or not Jerry molested 7 other kids...who cares..you are on a mission for the school. Maybe they'll put up a statue of the BWI Jerry crusaders once this big misunderstanding gets cleared up.

Thanks for posting this as people need to see where you guys are coming from. PSU first...those dirty scumbag single home d-bags ruined so much. They probably wanted it from Jerry too. :rolleyes:

I don't believe that anyone, regardless of opinion here, is not concerned about child abuse. I fail to see how the narrative that surrounded this case left children in Pa. safer than they were before Jerry Sandusky was convicted. The very belief that "everyone" around Jerry had to know and covered for him. does nothing to educated folks about the nice guy offender. Even those who feel that PSU was somehow culpable here, can't possibly equate their guilt with that of Centre County CYS, Courts or TSM.
 
You seem to eventually resort to the same "Ped State" type of slurs that we all have heard at stadiums around the country.
Wanting a fair trial and some rational explanations for what many consider dubious prosecution methods, IS NOT crusading for Jerry Sandusky's innocence. It may be an opportunity to get to more truth and discover what actually happened and what motivated the OAG and others to implicate PSU. If you actually read what I have written, I conjectured that what Jerry did deservedly put him behind bars. Where we seem to differ is, I would like to know what is fact and what has been manufactured. There are in my opinion, many things that don't add up. For instance, the crying janitor............

Saying a trial was unfair because you didn't like the outcome doesn't make the trial unfair either. Do the victims not have rights or should they just be on standby anytime a PSU fan has a question on the trial? If the courts give him a new trial so be it. If not, it won't bother me one bit. The janitor who didn't testify. The vicitim who didn't testify....yet every person that did testify can simply be overlooked? It's pretty odd for sure. What I find odd is you'll call me out on my behavior, but others promoting Jerry's cause catch a break. Pretty odd indeed.
 
I think this is a straw man argument. If the Aaron Fisher case were to fall apart, I believe the whole mess blows up sky high.

I'd like to know why the prospect of that frightens you?

Good point! I would also put Matt and Meyers on the stand. Drill them to why they were going to testify for Jerry and what Shubin said to them to lay low and then suddenly remember horrors that netted them $3 million apiece.

One point regarding Franco's post was how no one has researched Jerry's relationship with his father. Apparently Jerry's father dealt with many fatherless kids at his hometown Y. Did he hug and hold hands with these kids, did they work out together and later use the showers? This goes to intent. Jerry was told boundaries not to cross, but he did so. In his mind, was he thinking that is how his father did it and it worked?
 
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