OT My Son's First Year of College Coming

[johnmpsu]

I live in Ohio and my son is currently a junior in a very good high school. He has a 4.1 gpa and is very motivated with respect to finding a career that will not lead to a 9-5 job. He is also a talented film maker who finished second in a film festival open to college students and high school students. Currently, he is hustling for work trying to find film internships and is also trying to make money. (This weekend he filmed a large sewer drain hoping to sell the footage to other film makers. You can make $200 per minute of film for well done stock footage)

In any event, he seems to be so motivated and disciplined that I wonder whether college will really benefit him. I am thinking that maybe he should attend his freshman year of college with the plan of taking off what would otherwise be his sophomore year college. The idea being that his grades are good and he will probably get into a good college if he follows the traditional route. Once he is in, assuming he does reasonably well, the college should be willing to work with him and attempt to accommodate any non-traditional paths he may want to travel. Also, if during the second year, he does well on his own, maybe it is OK for him to forego college.

In any event, college is getting so expensive, that in a fair amount of instances, it is not cost effective. I am thinking if the plan is to attend the first year, we have potentially the best of both worlds -- if college works for him, he is in by the traditional route. If he doesn't like his first year and considers it a waste, he is free to see what he can do on his own. If he doesn't like college and takes a year or two off, but then later realizes he wants to go to college, I imagine that it would be easier to return to the college he attended his freshman year, rather than starting out from scratch as 19 or 20-year-old.

Any insights by people here would be appreciated.

My son is a 2011 film production major from Chapman University in Orange CA. It's an excellent film school. There are several film schools. Some good, some not so good. Also, many have different attitudes such as USC which is pretty much cut throat and provides very little opportunity to there students. For example, only one senior is allowed to direct a senior film, at least when my son attended. Others are more collegial such as Chapman which permit you to pursue your desires. He thought about PSU but the PSU prof told him he was nuts to not pick Chapman. Visit, and ask questions. Talk to the students. It's important. If he wants to get into the industry film school will help. There is a lot to learn. He doesn't have to go to USC or NYU to succeed. There are many good schools. Truth is USC or NYU might not be the best choice for your kid.

He now works as an movie trailer editor in Southern CA. He pretty much wanted to do that since middle school.

One thing I can tell you. He had better be talented. To the industry that's the only thing they care about. It's very competitive. He should also know now that right out of school if he's fortunate to get a job it will be at what seems below the bottom of the barrel. No exceptions. He will have to work for slave wages but if he's talented he can advance.

While in school. DO INTERNSHIPS. They can lead to contacts and potential jobs so work hard and try to impress. Who you know always matters. My son was lucky enough to be recognized as talented and pretty much got a mentor. Take all the help he can get.

Sorry for the long winded post. There's probably much more.

 

[dailybuck777]

You seem to have a plan. Have you discussed it with your son ?

We have been having discussions for the last 6 months. I just had this idea 2 days ago. Will discuss it with him. Good point.

 

[PeetzPoolBoy]

We have been having discussions for the last 6 months. I just had this idea 2 days ago. Will discuss it with him. Good point.

My only advice is ..if he’s interested in “film studies” and you’re either okay or supportive of his “decision”, don’t bother converting his bedroom into other useful space shortly after he leaves.

He’ll be back at home soon.

 

[dailybuck777]

Thanks to everyone for their input. Got a lot of great insights and suggestions.

 

[Cpeplion]

Thanks sounds interesting. Do you have any personal knowledge about Full Sail?

I had a student that went there. He now works in Orlando for Disney.

 

[Parkland Fan]

Agree that is true. I practiced law for about 20 years and was able to easily move to real estate investing (with a much smaller legal practice still ongoing). The saying that a law degree is very flexible worked in practice for me.

If it is not too intrusive of me to ask. Does your son have a loan to pay back for law school? If so, is he making enough to pay it back in a reasonable time frame? In my day, the tuition wasn't bad at all. I checked Ohio State last month, and it was nearly $50,000 per year, which in my mind, is way too high for a lot of people who might start off as public defenders or state prosecutors, where the starting salary is low.

I am not sure about the details of his student loans. My wife and I covered 50% of the costs which were in the $35,000 range at that time. My son worked as an attorney through a staffing firm for two years after graduation. He put in really long hours, but he was paid hourly with overtime. He said that he was able to put a huge dent in the loans.
My younger son (Duquesne Law) wasn't so lucky. He graduated in 2012 into a tight market. We again covered 50% of his $40,000 tuition and most of his living expenses. He has a decent in-house position, but his loans are a bit of burden.
The employment market for new attorneys has changed drastically in the past 15 years and right nowI would not recommend law school for most students. It is just too expensive.

 

[step.eng69]

Sorry to dailybuck777 and those who are having a dialogue but I have to agree...when that culvert rose up my jaw dropped open and I moved in closer to see WTF was going on, and I usually don't swear, even in acronyms.

No problem, Not trying to obstruct the thread, buck777 was also talking about a sewer films his son had composed. Showing the son that a little dramatics can be found in the sewer system in any location.

 

[nittnee]

Add Loyola Marymount, Chapman, Texas, Emerson, and Boston University. There are also the specialized schools like the American Film Institute, and the California Institute for the Arts. As, perhaps more, important as the curriculum is exposure and students get it at those places.

Agree with those schools as well, in fact my daughter attended LMU, but I was listing state schools due to dailybuck’s cost concerns. Mostly private schools dominate the list.

 

[CF LION]

Fascinating topic. My son is only a freshman in HS but is exhibiting a real talent for music production and engineering. Been thinking about Berklee (if he could get in), but scared to death of the tuition and his prospects for gainful employment afterwards.

 

[tboyer]

Careers in film are a rich man's game. If you are rich, your kid goes to NYU, which costs about $80,000 a year. Then your kid goes to Hollywood and works as an unpaid assistant for several years, which requires another substantial parental subsidy (not sure how Hollywood gets away with this). After that, a relatively small minority actually get paying work in making movies, while the majority give up and get a job doing something else. Going to a place like Full Sail costs almost as much with less chance of eventual success -- if you could get the number of Full Sail graduates actually working in their intended career you would find the number to be shockingly low.

If you are not rich and can't subsidize this career path, and your kid really wants to do film, I would suggest going the non-rich-kid way, which is to forego the NYU degree and encourage your kid to do a gap year to make movies. They should be self supporting as much as possible but maybe you contribute a "grant" of $500 or $1000 a month or something to help pay living expenses. Maybe he does the gap year in Los Angeles which would be the place to meet people like him.

Really, one of the most important skills for a filmmaker doesn't involve lenses or actors or sets, it's living as a pauper and raising money and making films for little or no money. A gap year could teach him all about that. And then maybe he'd be ready to go to a real college for a real major.

People who succeed at "dream" occupations like filmmaking or acting or instrumental music, or stand-up comedy, in my opinion, succeed because of iron will, unbelievable work ethic, the ability to withstand adversity and almost endless rejection. They do what they do because they could not live doing a normal job.

There's a lovely piece of dialogue in "Marvelous Mrs. Maisel" where Midge, who is considering a career in stand-up comedy, runs in to Lenny Bruce at the police station.

Miriam 'Midge' Maisel : Do you love it?
Lenny Bruce : Do I love what?
Miriam 'Midge' Maisel : Comedy. Stand-up. Do you love it?
Lenny Bruce : Seriously?
[Midge nods]

Lenny Bruce : Well, I've been doing it awhile. Let's put it like this. If there was anything else in the entire world that I could possibly do to earn a living, I would. Anything! I'm talking dry cleaners to the Klan, crippled kid portrait painters, slaughterhouse attendant. If someone said to me, "Leanord, you can either eat a guy's head, or do two weeks at the Copa," I'd say "Pass the ****ing salt." It's a terrible, terrible job. It should not exist. Like a cancer. And God.

Miriam 'Midge' Maisel : But do you love it?
[Lenny shrugs]

 

[SR108]

I live in Ohio and my son is currently a junior in a very good high school. He has a 4.1 gpa and is very motivated with respect to finding a career that will not lead to a 9-5 job. He is also a talented film maker who finished second in a film festival open to college students and high school students. Currently, he is hustling for work trying to find film internships and is also trying to make money. (This weekend he filmed a large sewer drain hoping to sell the footage to other film makers. You can make $200 per minute of film for well done stock footage)

In any event, he seems to be so motivated and disciplined that I wonder whether college will really benefit him. I am thinking that maybe he should attend his freshman year of college with the plan of taking off what would otherwise be his sophomore year college. The idea being that his grades are good and he will probably get into a good college if he follows the traditional route. Once he is in, assuming he does reasonably well, the college should be willing to work with him and attempt to accommodate any non-traditional paths he may want to travel. Also, if during the second year, he does well on his own, maybe it is OK for him to forego college.

In any event, college is getting so expensive, that in a fair amount of instances, it is not cost effective. I am thinking if the plan is to attend the first year, we have potentially the best of both worlds -- if college works for him, he is in by the traditional route. If he doesn't like his first year and considers it a waste, he is free to see what he can do on his own. If he doesn't like college and takes a year or two off, but then later realizes he wants to go to college, I imagine that it would be easier to return to the college he attended his freshman year, rather than starting out from scratch as 19 or 20-year-old.

Any insights by people here would be appreciated.

All I know is that my number one son started college right after high school, received no direct aid as a result of my Fafsa. I funded half of his tuition with savings and he the other half with interest bearing Federal and private loans. He did well his first year then went on a tailspin to which I responded by cutting all funding. He responded by joining the Marines. To make a long story short, when he went back to school under his own Fafsa, he received a substantial amount of direct aid and non interest bearing Federal loans.

My advise, let kids go to work until they are 21, then apply to college if they are so inclined, applying for aid under their own tax return and fafsa. They will save themselves and their parents a ton of money.

 

[PSU73]

No problem, Not trying to obstruct the thread, buck777 was also talking about a sewer films his son had composed. Showing the son that a little dramatics can be found in the sewer system in any location.

You were on point. I was not offering him any help, so was referring to me. You should post that clip sometime again when the board is slow. Cheers.

 

[Woodpecker]

I think that we all can remember our first year of college coming.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

Talk to as many people in the industry as possible. As others have said perhaps have him still apply and defer admission and take a year or two as a gap

If he doesn’t become a true filmmaker would he be happy on the technical side of production? Camera man, sound engineer, video editing etc? There are technical programs availabile for that.

 

[jerrycalpal]

Go to the best college possible that has a name. The average high school kid will have 14 diff.erent jobs. You have to have the ability to adapt. My daughter went to a great university that demanded she take calculus even though she was an English major. She cried about it
But I said,” you’ll never be afraid of math again.” Far too many graduate
without the ability to write or do complex math. You need both skills to succeed. She later went to a media company. They needed someone to do production budgets. Twenty turned her down, because “ they don’t do math”. She locked her office door, and studied excel for six hours.
Then she was in charge of all production budgets. FYI, the power.
Go to a college with a name because he is likely to live in California
As anyplace. People ask , “ where did you go to school”
You don’t want to go to some place that no one ever heard about.
In most places in the country, people think psu is an Ivy. LOL.
Study business, English, and film. Be versatile.
I lecture at a Communications Department. I am always asked what they should do. I always say, “ take the hardest math classes.” College is where you should stretch and possibly fail. “A’s are for sissies.
You learn from struggling and failing then breezing thru fake classes.

 

[PaFootbalGuy]

For reference a friend on mine is a professional sound engineer. He has a degree is physics from a very good school, and was in a band for years (they never made it big). He now lives in NY and does studio work and has toured with bands like Green Day and Pearl Jam. He wasn’t formally trained on the sound stuff. He is just smart and picked it up while playing in his band.

 

[kgilbert78]

Well, anywhere you go, you usually have to get some basics out of the way. One of the advantages of living in Ohio was the government crackdown on schools not accepting each other's credits. Used to be kids would go to a community college for 2 years (or even another university) and try to transfer---and would be given a half a year of credit. That stopped when they told Ohio schools that if you get government money a credit in one place needs to be a credit in any other Ohio school. Mind you, there's some courses that do not transfer well (and we're also not talking about remedial work).

But a lot of folks at my church are sending their kids to Columbus State for the first two years and then to tOSU or another school. There are a couple of advantages--the first bucks (pun not intended but unavoidable) the fact that tOSU requires freshmen and sophomores to live in the dorms for "a better college experience" (i.e., $$$ to the university), and then there's the lower cost of tuition. And you still end up with a degree from the more prestigious school. A year of taking the basics won't hurt anyone, and the kid will find out how college life suits them (or not).

Personally, I did my first two years at then PSU Ogontz, and it was a good choice for me (and my sister).

 

[nittany dave]

I live in Ohio and my son is currently a junior in a very good high school. He has a 4.1 gpa and is very motivated with respect to finding a career that will not lead to a 9-5 job. He is also a talented film maker who finished second in a film festival open to college students and high school students. Currently, he is hustling for work trying to find film internships and is also trying to make money. (This weekend he filmed a large sewer drain hoping to sell the footage to other film makers. You can make $200 per minute of film for well done stock footage)

In any event, he seems to be so motivated and disciplined that I wonder whether college will really benefit him. I am thinking that maybe he should attend his freshman year of college with the plan of taking off what would otherwise be his sophomore year college. The idea being that his grades are good and he will probably get into a good college if he follows the traditional route. Once he is in, assuming he does reasonably well, the college should be willing to work with him and attempt to accommodate any non-traditional paths he may want to travel. Also, if during the second year, he does well on his own, maybe it is OK for him to forego college.

In any event, college is getting so expensive, that in a fair amount of instances, it is not cost effective. I am thinking if the plan is to attend the first year, we have potentially the best of both worlds -- if college works for him, he is in by the traditional route. If he doesn't like his first year and considers it a waste, he is free to see what he can do on his own. If he doesn't like college and takes a year or two off, but then later realizes he wants to go to college, I imagine that it would be easier to return to the college he attended his freshman year, rather than starting out from scratch as 19 or 20-year-old.

Any insights by people here would be appreciated.

Just have him marry into the Trump family. Then he'll be set for life!

 

[lostlion]

My two cents and a thought.
A business background won't hurt and film specific courses will be a major benny if he goes to college.
Instead of going to work for others and receiving near nothing while he learns the business, U Tube and other social sites offer a means for him to get in front of eyeballs now. If he has a specialty technique of film genre he can get eyeballs and a portfolio going all at once. And I hear you can make some change there too.
Good luck to the young man.
(Actually, I hope he becomes a video/film engineer and develops new tools and techniques for us to enjoy/share. There's a lot of technical work in films and the equipment used to make them.)

 

[dailybuck777]

The numerous helpful comments I received have helped me clarify my thoughts/questions about one issue. If you are a motivated, fairly intelligent young person with a proclivity for business, how much does a college degree help? (particularly in light of how expensive college is today)

I will give 2 examples from my own experience. My father got a football scholarship to Kent State (a long, long time ago) and told me that he flunked out because he couldn't do the math. (Told my brother he needed to help his family financially) In any event, he became a teaching golf pro and did well financially. The reason that he did well was that he worked hard and got along with people very well. In fact, with his political know-how, I saw him run circles around MBAs in multiple situations.

I have a 45-year-old nephew who is the president of a small trucking company with about 125 trucks. He graduated from high school, became a truck driver and was noticed for his responsibility, common sense, and ability to get along with others. He became president about 8 years ago.

At the very least, college is sometimes a very useful "get-in-the-door-tool." That is a very useful function that would justify college in some instances. On the other hand, neither Bill Gates nor Steve Jobs finished college.

My son thinks like a business person and is motivated to do business. For instance, 2 days ago we were discussing a school sponsored trip to Europe, and I told him to take an extra $750 and enjoy himself. He said he didn't want it. Said he was concerned with ROI, return on investment. He would rather spend the money on camera equipment than on nice things from Europe.

If people want to contribute their thoughts and insights on this subject, I would be happy to hear the responses.

 

[Aardvark86]

The numerous helpful comments I received have helped me clarify my thoughts/questions about one issue. If you are a motivated, fairly intelligent young person with a proclivity for business, how much does a college degree help? (particularly in light of how expensive college is today)

I will give 2 examples from my own experience. My father got a football scholarship to Kent State (a long, long time ago) and told me that he flunked out because he couldn't do the math. (Told my brother he needed to help his family financially) In any event, he became a teaching golf pro and did well financially. The reason that he did well was that he worked hard and got along with people very well. In fact, with his political know-how, I saw him run circles around MBAs in multiple situations.

I have a 45-year-old nephew who is the president of a small trucking company with about 125 trucks. He graduated from high school, became a truck driver and was noticed for his responsibility, common sense, and ability to get along with others. He became president about 8 years ago.

At the very least, college is sometimes a very useful "get-in-the-door-tool." That is a very useful function that would justify college in some instances. On the other hand, neither Bill Gates nor Steve Jobs finished college.

My son thinks like a business person and is motivated to do business. For instance, 2 days ago we were discussing a school sponsored trip to Europe, and I told him to take an extra $750 and enjoy himself. He said he didn't want it. Said he was concerned with ROI, return on investment. He would rather spend the money on camera equipment than on nice things from Europe.

If people want to contribute their thoughts and insights on this subject, I would be happy to hear the responses.

It absolutely helps for a variety of reasons (basic formal finance training as well as learning how to tackle a problem from a multidisciplinary perspective), but there is steep diminishing return curve with more expensive schools.