There are no formal agreements because golfers want it that way. Just like most blue collar jobs don't involve a contract. In fact, any written materials supplied by an employer expressly state "no contract". The issue is not what Kuchar was compelled to do; it's what he should have done under the circumstances.. He had every right to be a cheap weasel. One can only hope Sketchers yanks the endorsements.
OT: OK golfers thoughts on whether Matt Kuchar stiffed his caddie after winning...
- Thread starter bwifan
- Start date
There are no formal agreements because golfers want it that way. Just like most blue collar jobs don't involve a contract. In fact, any written materials supplied by an employer expressly state "no contract". The issue is not what Kuchar was compelled to do; it's what he should have done under the circumstances.. He had every right to be a cheap weasel. One can only hope Sketchers yanks the endorsements.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
Well, most blue collar jobs have some kind of agreed upon wage even if it's not in a contract. Golfers should have the ability to negotiate with caddies but there should be sort of a guiding minimum or something. I see a 'typical' agreement with a regular caddy is something like 10% of the winnings (this from an article I read - no idea how written in stone or common it is). That seems pretty fair. In this instance, the caddy would have been compensated something like $125,000.00, right? Paying $5k just because the caddy doesn't make much otherwise is shameful. Should have split the difference with what his regular guy would have received and looked like a hero. He's the 10th winningest golfer (prize money) in PGA history; not a good look.
Hot off the presses...
Kuchar put out a statement today apologizing for the remarks in the story. He plans to call the caddy tonite to apologize and has ‘made sure he has received the full total that he has requested’. In addition, he is making a donation to the Mayakoba charities.
Took him a while but he finally realized his error and is trying to make up for it.
Kuchar put out a statement today apologizing for the remarks in the story. He plans to call the caddy tonite to apologize and has ‘made sure he has received the full total that he has requested’. In addition, he is making a donation to the Mayakoba charities.
Took him a while but he finally realized his error and is trying to make up for it.
He realized that trying to save $25,000 or $35,000 in fees will surely cost him at least hundreds of thousands of dollars and more probably several million dollars in endorsements. What retail business would want to be associated with a cheapskate?
you divide $5,000 by $47 million career earnings (not sure that includes endorsements) and see what % that is...I used to love yelling Koooch, but this is the dumbest PR move I have ever seen...greedy, selfish and arrogance beyond belief
I don't see how what Matt is worth has anything to do with this. He's earned his winnings. That doesn't entitle others to it. Should he have been upfront and paid the caddie more? Absolutely. But just because Matt is rich doesn't mean the caddie should be paid more. He should be paid what was agreed upon. Employees don't get paid more by CEO's just because they're rich but you might get a Christmas turkey, maybe a bonus.
Your point is logical but not practical. Kuchar has the right to agree to pay the caddie whatever he wants. As a top level player he earns substantial money in endorsements. If he persisted in not paying the caddie, the lost endorsements would surely far exceed the money he would save by holding firm on paying the caddie a comparatively small amount. He has the right to hold firm on the payments, but in the long run he loses money by doing so. That is the way that advertising and endorsements work.
It's not just logical, it's reality. He wins, he's not losing endorsements. You agree upon a payment and pay it. Give the guy a bonus and it's over and not spoken of. This is all about wanting something someone else has earned. Caddies don't drive golf, players do. If Matt would have simply paid a bit more this is a huge nothing burger.
Here is a story on a very cash-strapped Tom Lehman paying his substitute caddie after winning a Hogan Tour event. This is a great story with a great ending.
TOM LEHMAN
No. 17 on 1990 money list ($41,338)
“No one was making any money, nobody was getting rich, nobody was saving anything, but it was all about playing for those five spots (on the PGA TOUR). Everybody began in the same boat. There was a great sense of camaraderie. There really was no pecking order. Everybody was at the bottom, trying to peck their way up.
“I traveled with my wife. I was 30 years old. Our first child (Rachael) was born the first year. She was born during the season, in May.
“(Lehman and his wife Melissa) shared meals. We always judged a player’s situation, whether they had a good sponsor or not, by how they ordered their dinners. My wife and I would share a steak and a Diet Coke. We shared everything. Those who had a great sponsor would order their own steak, their own appetizer. The idea of having an appetizer … was not part of the ordering lexicon. No one ordered appetizers. No one ordered dessert. That’s probably why we were all so skinny.
“We travelled that whole first summer in a Volvo. And somewhere along the way, about May, the air conditioning stopped working. So we went to a Volvo dealer, he said you need a new this and that, it’s going to cost you $1,200. So of course we didn’t have $1,200 bucks. So we said we’ll just drive with the windows down. It’s 100 degrees everywhere. We were going through Chicago and we looked into another Volvo dealership. We asked him to look at the AC. He said you have a seal that’s broken. It’s going to cost you $5.
“The point is this: everyone was in that situation, where you couldn’t afford $1,200 to fix your car. No one had the money for it.
“When I got to the (Ben Hogan Reflection Ridge Classic, which Lehman won), I didn’t have a full-time caddie because I was a conditional member. I asked if there was a high school kid who was available. They said they had a kid who didn't play golf, he was a wrestler, but he wanted to make a few bucks. He never read a putt, he never helped with club selection, never helped with the wind. He was just always there on time. He was into it, loyal and encouraging when he said something. And so I won. So I’m thinking what a blessing this is for my wife and I. We’re $5,000 in the hole and $20,000 was the biggest check ever for me.
“Two months go by, he writes me this letter. He never really talked much about himself while caddying. So he spills out his whole life story. A difficult upbringing, a father who abandoned the family. He got into trouble. Through the great mentoring of a wrestling coach, he ended up becoming a wrestler. Once he graduated, he wanted to go to this Bible college not far from Wichita. He didn’t have any money and his mom didn’t have any money. The tuition was $2,000 bucks. So the check that I sent him for caddying paid for the first year’s tuition. It truly may have been the highlight of my time on the Hogan Tour, that somehow we were together part of this plan where we were both blessed so much. That letter meant so much for me.”
TOM LEHMAN
No. 17 on 1990 money list ($41,338)
“No one was making any money, nobody was getting rich, nobody was saving anything, but it was all about playing for those five spots (on the PGA TOUR). Everybody began in the same boat. There was a great sense of camaraderie. There really was no pecking order. Everybody was at the bottom, trying to peck their way up.
“I traveled with my wife. I was 30 years old. Our first child (Rachael) was born the first year. She was born during the season, in May.
“(Lehman and his wife Melissa) shared meals. We always judged a player’s situation, whether they had a good sponsor or not, by how they ordered their dinners. My wife and I would share a steak and a Diet Coke. We shared everything. Those who had a great sponsor would order their own steak, their own appetizer. The idea of having an appetizer … was not part of the ordering lexicon. No one ordered appetizers. No one ordered dessert. That’s probably why we were all so skinny.
“We travelled that whole first summer in a Volvo. And somewhere along the way, about May, the air conditioning stopped working. So we went to a Volvo dealer, he said you need a new this and that, it’s going to cost you $1,200. So of course we didn’t have $1,200 bucks. So we said we’ll just drive with the windows down. It’s 100 degrees everywhere. We were going through Chicago and we looked into another Volvo dealership. We asked him to look at the AC. He said you have a seal that’s broken. It’s going to cost you $5.
“The point is this: everyone was in that situation, where you couldn’t afford $1,200 to fix your car. No one had the money for it.
“When I got to the (Ben Hogan Reflection Ridge Classic, which Lehman won), I didn’t have a full-time caddie because I was a conditional member. I asked if there was a high school kid who was available. They said they had a kid who didn't play golf, he was a wrestler, but he wanted to make a few bucks. He never read a putt, he never helped with club selection, never helped with the wind. He was just always there on time. He was into it, loyal and encouraging when he said something. And so I won. So I’m thinking what a blessing this is for my wife and I. We’re $5,000 in the hole and $20,000 was the biggest check ever for me.
“Two months go by, he writes me this letter. He never really talked much about himself while caddying. So he spills out his whole life story. A difficult upbringing, a father who abandoned the family. He got into trouble. Through the great mentoring of a wrestling coach, he ended up becoming a wrestler. Once he graduated, he wanted to go to this Bible college not far from Wichita. He didn’t have any money and his mom didn’t have any money. The tuition was $2,000 bucks. So the check that I sent him for caddying paid for the first year’s tuition. It truly may have been the highlight of my time on the Hogan Tour, that somehow we were together part of this plan where we were both blessed so much. That letter meant so much for me.”
Kuchar really stepped in it, which is too bad and so avoidable.
There are a lot of different personalities out there. More than a few golfers (of any era) who are just flat out bad guys. The biggest name out there is a notorious ultra-cheapskate. Other guys are extravagant in their generosity including an older player who just recently won.
It is really ridiculous. The guy doesn't deserve $125k, but he does deserve to get paid. He's worth $50 grand. Pay him and don't think twice about it. It all comes right off the top before tax anyway.
It's hard to say what a caddie makes. The 10% - that's only for the winner. A top 10 finish will earn you a couple points extra. Miss the cut and you get your weekly and that's it. If you're working for a top PGA Touring pro, you'll make excellent money. If you're on the bag for a bottom-end LPGA player, you're eating a lot of mac and cheese. See, the caddies are on their own for their travel and expenses which means a lot of doubling up at Super 8.
I liked Kuch but this is a real self inflicted black eye. Don't be a cheapskate.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
Guest
By the same token the substitute caddy shouldn’t have to take less than expected because he’s not as wealthy. No one is saying Matt should pay more - just something fair.
I have heard from very trusted sources that the biggest name out there is a notorious cheapskate. Truly in a league of his own.
I wouldn’t drop him if I sponsored him....my God. What a bunch of effing babies we are. This is a business dispute. You’ve had them, I’ve had them. Just nobody cares what you or I do. So sick of these consumer to consumer bitch fest.
Don't know why you are reluctant to name Tiger. Here are a couple of links. The first also has a funny story about Lebron James. http://www.thepostgame.com/blog/dish/201108/tiger-woods-regains-no-1-ranking-tightwad-tippers https://www.inquisitr.com/1367445/t...le-when-it-comes-to-tipping-says-rick-reilly/
Funny quote from second article: "“You need a court order to get Tiger’s wallet open. It’s unbelievable.”
I think Tiger is so highly ranked that his poor tipping doesn't affect his endorsements.
Last edited:
Tiger also has a good number of charities. It does appear that both of them are cheap in their every day life.
Caddies generally get paid a minimum and a sliding percentage scale of the winnings of their player. The 10% is for a win. From there it decreases. I am sure Wood’s guy gets a large minimum just to keep him around. Remember he fired his caddy Steve Williams for looping for Adam Scott.
I know the father of a tour caddy. Went to school with his player. Moved up from the Web.com and didn’t enjoy his first year looping on tour. Winnings were sparse and travel was a drag. His player made the 125 though. The main reason he came back was they upped his minimum a bit and he got a couple of hundred bucks a week with Valspar to wear their hat. Want to see a struggling caddy, look for a Valspar hat. His player had pretty decent second year which has kept him coming back. Hearing the few stories from his Dad, he earns his paycheck.
Great insights. I became curious and went to the intergooglewebthingy but couldn’t identify the caddy. I did find an interesting letter from Valspar to the participants that outlines the hat program: http://www.caddies.pgatourhq.com/To...2.pdf/Valspar Caddie Hat Thank You Letter.pdf
