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OT: Screwed by the PLCB

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butchnitt

Well-Known Member
Oct 24, 2003
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Pennsylvania Wine & Spirits stores are screwing us.

I am "vacationing" in Florida and the prices of Wine & Liquors are less expensive here. For example - Captain Morgan Spiced Rum (1.75 ML) is $20.00 here and in PA it's $30.99; Woodbridge 1.5 ML wines are approximately $9.00-$10.00 here and in PA $14.99.

I am not an attorney but this smells of monopoly. Furthermore, we are not allowed to purchase wines and liquors out of state. I think it's about time that PS privatizes wine and liquor sales.

Between the weather and beer/liquor prices I dread returning to PA.
 
I've seen some pluses and minuses to our system. Some prices are very cheap, for example our state store prices were similar to NH and seemed to be cheaper than Jersey or NY. Delaware seems cheaper.
 
It's a lot better than it used to be, but it's still anti-American in some respects. The system exists in order to shore up the distributor-level monopoly, and to rape you with taxation.

It's truly amazing that in 2017 you can't buy a bottle of wine from most wineries in California and have it legally shipped into Pennsylvania, for example. But because it is a bastion of patronage and because they tax the living shit out of every single bottle, the PLCB is going nowhere.

The politicians and unions rationalize this monopoly by saying that it protects us from rampant alcoholism.
 
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lionlurker said:
It's a lot better than it used to be, but it's still anti-American in some respects. The system exists in order to shore up the distributor-level monopoly, and to rape you with taxation.

It's truly amazing that in 2017 you can't buy a bottle of wine from most wineries in California and have it legally shipped into Pennsylvania, for example. But because it is a bastion of patronage and because they tax the living shit out of every single bottle, the PLCB is going nowhere.

The politicians and unions rationalize this monopoly by saying that it protects us from rampant alcoholism.
Click to expand...
Thank God I am only 30 minutes from Total Wines in Delaware - everything is cheaper and they actually have cases of Wine you can buy unlike the State Stores, plus no sales tax. PA is stuck in the 50's. Patronage everywhere including PLCB, inefficient and backwards.
 
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And you can't buy a 6 pack of beer in a grocery store, although I believe that is about to change. I shop in NJ where at least you can find a good selection of beer, wine, and liquor in the same store. The LCB in PA is the most antiquated system I've seen in any State. And no politician has been able to privatize it.
 
As far as I'm concerned, government can tax the hell out of booze, and I'm hardly a teetotaler.
 
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Nitwit said:
And you can't buy a 6 pack of beer in a grocery store, although I believe that is about to change. I shop in NJ where at least you can find a good selection of beer, wine, and liquor in the same store. The LCB in PA is the most antiquated system I've seen in any State. And no politician has been able to privatize it.
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6 packs are available in grocery stores now, started sometime in 2016 I believe.
 
I got married this past year, and we had to provide our alcohol at the venue. I live in Pittsburgh, we drove to Trader Joe's in Cleveland to pick up wine for the wedding. We were able to find stuff that we liked for like $4 - $6 a bottle, and just bought like 20 cases (I know, I know, probably wasn't the best quality, but the cost of weddings is friggin absurd).

We probably saved about $1K by doing that instead of just buying from wines and spirits. PA seems so corrupt...
 
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Nitwit said:
And you can't buy a 6 pack of beer in a grocery store, although I believe that is about to change. I shop in NJ where at least you can find a good selection of beer, wine, and liquor in the same store. The LCB in PA is the most antiquated system I've seen in any State. And no politician has been able to privatize it.
Click to expand...

You can actually buy beer and wine in some supermarkets now. Baby steps.
 
...in Philly they are taxing the hell out of soft drinks...so sales in Philly are way down but way up outside the city!...
 
Art said:
As far as I'm concerned, government can tax the hell out of booze, and I'm hardly a teetotaler.
Click to expand...

I'm just curious as to why you feel this way. My uncle is not a teetotaler either and he is a supporter of the state stores (and he isn't employed by them!).
 
butchnitt said:
Pennsylvania Wine & Spirits stores are screwing us.

I am "vacationing" in Florida and the prices of Wine & Liquors are less expensive here. For example - Captain Morgan Spiced Rum (1.75 ML) is $20.00 here and in PA it's $30.99; Woodbridge 1.5 ML wines are approximately $9.00-$10.00 here and in PA $14.99.

I am not an attorney but this smells of monopoly. Furthermore, we are not allowed to purchase wines and liquors out of state. I think it's about time that PS privatizes wine and liquor sales.

Between the weather and beer/liquor prices I dread returning to PA.
Click to expand...

While this may be a test board worthy topic, I have to wonder what rock you have been living under? Anyone who thinks the people are better off when the government provides us goods or routine services (not military, law enforcement, etc.) is crazy...
 
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lionlurker said:
It's a lot better than it used to be, but it's still anti-American in some respects. The system exists in order to shore up the distributor-level monopoly, and to rape you with taxation.

It's truly amazing that in 2017 you can't buy a bottle of wine from most wineries in California and have it legally shipped into Pennsylvania, for example. But because it is a bastion of patronage and because they tax the living shit out of every single bottle, the PLCB is going nowhere.

The politicians and unions rationalize this monopoly by saying that it protects us from rampant alcoholism.
Click to expand...
No longer reatrue re wine. The list of wineries from which you can now ship to PA is extensive.
lionlurker said:
You can actually buy beer and wine in some supermarkets now. Baby steps.
Click to expand...
and the list of wineries from which you can now ship to PA is extensive...
 
So you think prices will go down in town that has a college/campus; forget it. Look at the price of beer in State College. Look at the price of gasoline. Who will be able to afford a liquor license in State College: Wegman's, Wal-Mart, etc. Now prices are pretty consistent across the state. Will free market keep it that way? Look at the price of electricity, cell phones, cable TV!
 
psu1969a said:
So you think prices will go down in town that has a college/campus; forget it. Look at the price of beer in State College. Look at the price of gasoline. Who will be able to afford a liquor license in State College: Wegman's, Wal-Mart, etc. Now prices are pretty consistent across the state. Will free market keep it that way? Look at the price of electricity, cell phones, cable TV!
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Who here lives in State College? A handful + a few University administration rump swabbers.
 
ClarkstonMark said:
So stupid. Even when making progress it is in a bassackwards way.
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I can buy a case of Yuengling at 7AM on a Sunday in Publix for about $22 (or wine if I wanted). Publix Liquor Store (next door) would probably not open til 10AM on a Sunday. If someone wants beer after hours, just find an all night convenience store. Buy it at 4:30AM if you want to.

I don't understand why it should be any other way.
 
psu7113 said:
No longer reatrue re wine. The list of wineries from which you can now ship to PA is extensive.

and the list of wineries from which you can now ship to PA is extensive...
Click to expand...

Actually, you are dead wrong. Many, many wineries and west coast wine merchants don't ship into PA, because the paperwork burden is onerous. There are a lot of wines that the PA system doesn't sell, and I cannot legally buy. Period. That is right: as a PA resident, I am not permitted to buy a lot of wine that is legally sold in other states.

I fully suspect that the number of wineries that will ship into PA is a tiny fraction compared to the ones that will not.
 
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psu7113 said:
No longer reatrue re wine. The list of wineries from which you can now ship to PA is extensive.

and the list of wineries from which you can now ship to PA is extensive...
Click to expand...


Repeat: not extensive. Not even close. Maybe the list of wineries that sell shit wine that nobody wants to buy, that will ship into PA, is extensive. But I am talking about good wine. Fine wine. Wine that most people who know about wine actually WANT to drink. That list is far from extensive.
 
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91Joe95 said:
Its actually a store within a store. You can't buy groceries where you buy beer and vice versa.
Click to expand...

You can buy groceries with the beer, but you can't buy beer with the groceries. I routinely buy 1-2 items of need with a six pack at the local grocery store.

lionlurker said:
Actually, you are dead wrong. Many, many wineries and west coast wine merchants don't ship into PA, because the paperwork burden is onerous.

I fully suspect that the number of wineries that will ship into PA is a tiny fraction compared to the ones that will not.
Click to expand...

While there are certainly some alcohol sellers that refuse to ship to PA, many will. Some I've found just don't care what the law says and do it anyway. We order stuff often and have it shipped here, a mix of wine and beer, but more beer than wine.
 
You deserve to be screwed.


butchnitt said:
Pennsylvania Wine & Spirits stores are screwing us.

I am "vacationing" in Florida and the prices of Wine & Liquors are less expensive here. For example - Captain Morgan Spiced Rum (1.75 ML) is $20.00 here and in PA it's $30.99; Woodbridge 1.5 ML wines are approximately $9.00-$10.00 here and in PA $14.99.

I am not an attorney but this smells of monopoly. Furthermore, we are not allowed to purchase wines and liquors out of state. I think it's about time that PS privatizes wine and liquor sales.

Between the weather and beer/liquor prices I dread returning to PA.
Click to expand...
 
This is the United States of America. I can buy any car I want. I can buy any power drill I want. I can buy brand of tomato sauce I want.

In Pennsylvania, even if there is one wine I am not permitted to buy, that is ridiculous. And there are way more than a few. Anybody who tries to minimize this is either involved in the business, or knows nothing about wine. I can probably name, easily, 50 California wineries that refuse to ship into Pennsylvania. I can probably easily get to over 100.

Should any retailer be barred entry into this state because of a paperwork burden that is so onerous that most small wineries don't bother?

It's a government monopoly, pure and simple, and it should be a crime. As a US citizen, even if there is only one wine I cannot purchase legally in this state, when citizens of every other state can get it, then that is an obvious abuse of power.

Just because others don't want to buy a wine that I want, doesn't excuse the situation. Even if retailers are willing to ship under the radar, doesn't excuse the situation. It's nothing more than a legalized Mafia.
 
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Whenever I'm visiting PA and I visit a State Store, I always feel like I'm shopping at Soviet Union liquor store. Limited selection, unhelpful employees and really high prices.
 
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I don't disagree, but PA has a long list of bigger problems than the PLCB
 
Grew up in PA and stayed there until I was 31. Never knew any better. But after moving to CA and being able to buy beer, wine and liquor at the grocery store...you realize what a pain in the butt PA is. Then add in the price and selection issue and it really drives you nuts!!!
 
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elvis63 said:
I've seen some pluses and minuses to our system. Some prices are very cheap, for example our state store prices were similar to NH and seemed to be cheaper than Jersey or NY. Delaware seems cheaper.
Click to expand...
I'm calling BS on this statement. There are no pluses to the PA state monopoly.
None.
 
lionlurker said:
It's a lot better than it used to be, but it's still anti-American in some respects. The system exists in order to shore up the distributor-level monopoly, and to rape you with taxation.

It's truly amazing that in 2017 you can't buy a bottle of wine from most wineries in California and have it legally shipped into Pennsylvania, for example. But because it is a bastion of patronage and because they tax the living shit out of every single bottle, the PLCB is going nowhere.

The politicians and unions rationalize this monopoly by saying that it protects us from rampant alcoholism.
Click to expand...
They also like to push the idea that without state employees manning the stores, private operators would be nothing but dirty criminal illegal aliens who would sell liquor to 14 year olds at 4 AM. Because private business people are all crooked. Unlike state employees who care first and foremost about the welfare of every Pennsylvanian. And they would hire people at minimum wage, unlike the generous wage and benefits program current employees get.

Anytime anyone tries to argue with me about privatization, I tell them that none of their worries would happen if current state store managers and employees bought the licenses and ran the stores themselves. They could hire the best employees and pay them $20, $30, $40 an hour if they wanted. And we'd no longer be on the hook for providing a pension for them when they retire at the age of 50. The usual response I get is "er, ah, uh, um."
 
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lionlurker said:
This is the United States of America. I can buy any car I want. I can buy any power drill I want. I can buy brand of tomato sauce I want.

In Pennsylvania, even if there is one wine I am not permitted to buy, that is ridiculous. And there are way more than a few. Anybody who tries to minimize this is either involved in the business, or knows nothing about wine. I can probably name, easily, 50 California wineries that refuse to ship into Pennsylvania. I can probably easily get to over 100.

Should any retailer be barred entry into this state because of a paperwork burden that is so onerous that most small wineries don't bother?

It's a government monopoly, pure and simple, and it should be a crime. As a US citizen, even if there is only one wine I cannot purchase legally in this state, when citizens of every other state can get it, then that is an obvious abuse of power.

Just because others don't want to buy a wine that I want, doesn't excuse the situation. Even if retailers are willing to ship under the radar, doesn't excuse the situation. It's nothing more than a legalized Mafia.
Click to expand...

I agree that there is too much government regulation, and that is a big part of what you can and cannot buy in PA. But there is also another important factor, many wineries and breweries have limited production and simply can't supply all 50 states, especially those on the other side of the country. When it comes to beer, limited production is generally the main reason why beer isn't widely distributed.

swordsman_l said:
I'm calling BS on this statement. There are no pluses to the PA state monopoly.
None.
Click to expand...

I've seen some very high end items that are actually cheaper in PA due to the system holding the price. So while I agree that the state monopoly is generally bad, there are some very rare instances that it does provide a plus.
 
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