I remember working at a Wawa/Sheetz kind of place when I was a young buck and was happy that I wouldn't have to deal with someone that was drunk or violent trying to steal a case of beer at 2am like I had seen on all those hidden camera cop shows. So to me, not selling booze at gas stations was a positive of the PLCB's control in PA.
OT: Screwed by the PLCB
- Thread starter butchnitt
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I remember working at a Wawa/Sheetz kind of place when I was a young buck and was happy that I wouldn't have to deal with someone that was drunk or violent trying to steal a case of beer at 2am like I had seen on all those hidden camera cop shows. So to me, not selling booze at gas stations was a positive of the PLCB's control in PA.
13,000 state store workers and 600 beer distributors have more political power than the other 11 million people who live in Pa.
That's democracy in America, 2017.
That's democracy in America, 2017.
There are also wineries that make 40,000 cases of certain wines, and don't ship into PA.
Agreed, like I said "I agree that there is too much government regulation, and that is a big part of what you can and cannot buy in PA."
LOL, ok, I guess.
But how many drunks, violent or just stupid drunk, did you have to deal with buying hotdogs at 2 am?
I lived/worked in Cecil County Md (Chester County Pa to the north) for a few decades. The liquor stores would be full of PA tags on the weekends and especially before the holidays. Back in the 70's, the county sheriff started arresting the liquor board investigators who came down to bust the Pa smugglers. Got ugly...
And really, State Store pricing is really just the tip of the iceberg. At least you can see how much it costs you when you travel.
The restaurant licensing system -- almost completely unchanged since the 1930s -- is the real scandal to me.
Restaurant licenses are limited by population - so if you want to open a restaurant in Philadelphia and sell wine with dinner, you have to pay about $250,000 for a liquor license. So if you sell wine, you've got to add $30-40 per bottle to the price. The liquor license adds to the cost of food too. It's increasingly hard to find a burger for under $15 in this city, and liquor license costs are part of that.
The restaurant licensing system -- almost completely unchanged since the 1930s -- is the real scandal to me.
Restaurant licenses are limited by population - so if you want to open a restaurant in Philadelphia and sell wine with dinner, you have to pay about $250,000 for a liquor license. So if you sell wine, you've got to add $30-40 per bottle to the price. The liquor license adds to the cost of food too. It's increasingly hard to find a burger for under $15 in this city, and liquor license costs are part of that.
Interesting discussion in this thread!
For me, I struggle to understand how/why liquor should've ever been put under state control. It defies common sense and furthermore, all it does is add more to the already underfunded pension plans.
For me, I struggle to understand how/why liquor should've ever been put under state control. It defies common sense and furthermore, all it does is add more to the already underfunded pension plans.
This whole system dates back to the end of Prohibition. Once they realized that the cash cow shits Franklins, it has never been under serious threat.
If you really want to be scandalized you should watch the State employees actually work. I had the misfortune to build a retail center with a State Store and the pace of the Highly Paid and Professional State Employees as they set fixtures in the store was infuriating. I had carpenters who could have finished in three days what took them six weeks. Show up time for them was somewhere between 9 and 10 and they left at 2. Absolutely destroyed my faith in any type of government run monopoly. Every day I had to tell myself I get to pay these pensions for the rest of their lives. Head of the Union is a pirate pure and simple. He is holding the people of our State hostage.
Jonathan Newman, who was Chairman of the PLCB in the early 2000's really tried to make it competitive with the privately run stores in other states. He came up with the Chairman's Select idea, where you could order wine not sold in the stores and have it delivered to the state store of your choice for pick up. He also pushed the upgrading of all stores and introduced ecommerce to the state store system. One thing that is often misunderstood is that the PLCB is the largest purchasing entity of alcohol in the world. Newman was trying to leverage this to improve the PLCB, and I think it was his vision to gradually get the entire system privatized.
When he left the PLCB, the momentum he was building slowed down, but things seem to be slowing moving towards privatization again.
Newman now has his own business purchasing wines and spirits and retailing them on-line. He's pretty much regarded as one of the most influential people in the industry.
When he left the PLCB, the momentum he was building slowed down, but things seem to be slowing moving towards privatization again.
Newman now has his own business purchasing wines and spirits and retailing them on-line. He's pretty much regarded as one of the most influential people in the industry.
His biggest problem was getting along with people, and having an extremely high opinion of himself, but agreed he was a breath of fresh air at the time.
At the end of the day, all that matters is the union and the tax dollars. Nothing else.
At the end of the day, all that matters is the union and the tax dollars. Nothing else.
If you live near the border and you like wine you pretty much will be a smuggler. The State Stores have improved a lot but they only sell wine from people who can sell them gigantic lots.
So the major California wineries are overrepresented, small French and Italian chateaus are not represented at all.
California wine is great but it is very expensive for the quality. A drinkable California cab is hard to find under $20 in the state store. If you cross the bridge to New Jersey you can find that California cab for $2 less.
But the really big difference is you can find quite interesting French, Italian and Spanish wines from smaller producers for $12-$14 a bottle, sometimes even $9-10. In the state store $10 a bottle gets you something of the caliber of Yellow Tail -- which is great if you like that kind of thing.
And then if you go to Europe you realize what fools Americans are for putting up with this. In France almost NOBODY spends $20 for a bottle of wine. They drink wine so often, it can't be expensive. Their idea of a table wine is 3-6 euro (which is $3.30-6.76). If you want the French equivalent of 3-buck Chuck it will be 1.5 euro in grocery stores.
Remember it was the dopes at the PLCB that came up with the idea for Wine Vending Machines - that stupid idea cost the State Millions when it of course failed. I remember seeing one of these things once - you had to blow into a breathalizer and show your ID to a camera that was fed to a person in Harrisburgh who checked it - the State should not be in the liquor biz. It is just a way to skim money from private companies and generally make life for citizens more of a pain in the ass.,
That whole thing was some friend of Rendell that owned/ran it; Eddie pretty much gave him the franchise. Of course, it sucked.
Exactly! Anytime the government sticks its snout where it doesn't belong things get worse. Do you guys remember the digital TV decoder fiasco? Another example is healthcare beyond that which is provided by Medicare and Disability. Since when is it my responsibility to subsidize your healthcare when you're an able-bodied, working adult!? And there seems to be no limit to these income redistribution efforts. It's scope creep. What's up next, paying your car note! Please allow me to give charity voluntarily rather than through the tax code. It's more rewarding that way! This isn't about politics. It's about common decency, respect and keeping your hand out-of-my-wallet.
I thank you.
It's not just the State Stores. There's a lot of backward things going on in PA which have us out-of-staters scratching our heads. Like why must seniors pay taxes only to have them refunded back to them in a few months?! And yet some of you have the gall to call Texas backward. Go figure!
One of the best 80 proof whiskeys I have tasted and drink is Prichard's Whiskey Tennessee 80 Proof. Earlier this year, the state started closing out on this product and I will no longer be able to but it locally in Luzerne County. The Premium store in Dallas brought in 12 units for me from another store and reduced the price by $8 per unit. I bought 6 over the last three months. Looking at the link below, seems to be a hundred or so bottles left state wide. The store manager told me the whisky doesn't sell, probably people won't pay $40 for 80 proof whiskey. I've waited for five years for the stores to carry Hudson Baby Bourbon. They finally started last year. There are a total of 24 bottles in Luzerne County.
Link for State products list, availably & price:
http://www.lcbapps.lcb.state.pa.us/webapp/product_management/psi_productdefault_inter.asp
Totally with ya. So let's abolish sewer authorities and let people poop in a bucket and dump it in the street like they used to. Heck, I'm sick of having my taxes subsidize your roads. Pave your own roads, I'm happy with dirt roads.
Why not go back to private fire companies? We used to have that in Philadelphia. If you paid your yearly fire company fee, they put a medallion on your house so they could know whether to save it or not. Otherwise they'd let it burn to the ground. It's a great system.
Same with public schools. What a waste of money. If you want to educate your kids, hire a tutor, I don't want to pay taxes to teach your rotten kids algebra -- they're not paying attention anyway. The local church will teach them how to read the Bible. Everything else they can get from Fox News. Who needs schools -- schools are super expensive, I'd rather spend my school tax on a new boat.
I'm not even really kidding. A sizeable portion of the country wants to live in, effectively, Mississippi. Some of us would rather live in the First World but we're not winning the argument. Mississippi is winning. So I guess I got to make peace with living in Mississippi.
