OT: Water Heater Took A Crap/New One?

[ThePennsyOracle]

Our house is only about 2 years old, and as such, so is the water heater (we're the first to live there). Yesterday evening, I discovered that the water heater crapped out.

It's an AO Smith Promax 40gal gas water heater, and has a 6-year parts warranty. Several in the neighborhood have had the same issue that I'm having, and several have spent in upwards of $600 in labor costs despite having parts covered under warranty.

It's throwing an error LED group indicating an ignition/flame failure. It tries to ignite 3 times as per its safety settings but then shuts off and throws the code. Booklet says to power cycle, and have done this 2-3 times to no avail. I can see it trying to ignite--there is definitely a flame--but it never kicks on.

This happened all of a sudden and was fine yesterday AM. There's been no leakage or other problems.

Long story short, but plumber is on the way.

My question is.....there's no way in hell I'm spending $500 in labor to fix it. I'd rather buy a new one, preferably non-AO Smith if their stuff is this shitty and quits after 2 years.

Does anyone have any experience with tankless gas hybrid water heaters or tankless gas ones? I can't see getting a plain tankless gas because of the drawbacks--wife and I take showers at the same time in separate bathrooms, and it's not uncommon to have dishwasher/shower running at the same time.

So, the tankless hybrid intrigues me. Does anyone have any experience or insight as to what the installed cost is?

Tips/tricks and other advice is appreciated.

 

[Obliviax]

That all sounds about right. Heater will cost ~ $500 depending on size, gas/electric, manufacturer. Labor will be ~ $400 depending on where you live. If AO Smith gives you a new one, you'll save the product but not the labor. So your choice will be to take the Smith or spend an additional $500.

AO Smith is a huge company that sells direct, through distributors and in different brands (Takagi is really AO Smith). Their ratings have dropped a ton in the last ten years. But so has everyone else. Honestly, I'd get the new AO Smith replacement and pay the plumber to put it in.

 

[BlueBand]

AO Smith are mostly crap these days but developers love them because they're cheap and hardly anyone looks at the hot water heater when buying a home. Hot water comes out of the faucet and it doesn't look like a rust bucket? We're good.

If you do tankless gas is better. Make sure it's rated for your water usage. HOWEVER, the money you save is usually offset by the yearly maintenance. First, they are more likely to need a service call, and second, there is yearly routine maintenance that you need to pay a plumber to do. Not doing that maintenance will void your warranty in most cases. They dint tell you that when they're selling you the unit. Not to mention the upfront costs are MUCH higher (mostly installation costs).

The concept of tankless is sound but the technology isn't there from an efficiency of use standpoint. Aside from using less energy.

I don't know much about hybrids but I can't imagine they solve any of the issues of pure tankless systems, other than quicker hot water when you open the faucet. But they still would have, I assume, all the maintenance expenses.

 

[Obliviax]

AO Smith are mostly crap these days but developers love them because they're cheap and hardly anyone looks at the hot water heater when buying a home. Hot water comes out of the faucet and it doesn't look like a rust bucket? We're good.

If you do tankless gas is better. Make sure it's rated for your water usage. HOWEVER, the money you save is usually offset by the yearly maintenance. First, they are more likely to need a service call, and second, there is yearly routine maintenance that you need to pay a plumber to do. Not doing that maintenance will void your warranty in most cases. They dint tell you that when they're selling you the unit. Not to mention the upfront costs are MUCH higher (mostly installation costs).

The concept of tankless is sound but the technology isn't there from an efficiency of use standpoint. Aside from using less energy.

I don't know much about hybrids but I can't imagine they solve any of the issues of pure tankless systems, other than quicker hot water when you open the faucet. But they still would have, I assume, all the maintenance expenses.

Agree and disagree. A Tankless will cost more, today. Second, I've had a tankless for ten years and it has had zero maintenance issues and no ongoing maintenance.
Where tankless is really helpful is if you use a lot of hot water. It is never ending. My daughter has this inflatable water slide thing and she's used it in April and October using hot water. I also have a huge whirlpool in my master bath and have no problem filling it to the brim if someone needs a whirlpool bath.

 

[Nitt1300]

We have a Buderus boiler and a Superstore indirect tank- both are reputed to be the best out there. Nine years in and we've already replaced a circulator pump and are about to replace the tank- lifetime warranty on the tank- but labor isn't included in the warranty. Quality isn't what it once was, I guess.

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

AO Smith are mostly crap these days but developers love them because they're cheap and hardly anyone looks at the hot water heater when buying a home. Hot water comes out of the faucet and it doesn't look like a rust bucket? We're good.

If you do tankless gas is better. Make sure it's rated for your water usage. HOWEVER, the money you save is usually offset by the yearly maintenance. First, they are more likely to need a service call, and second, there is yearly routine maintenance that you need to pay a plumber to do. Not doing that maintenance will void your warranty in most cases. They dint tell you that when they're selling you the unit. Not to mention the upfront costs are MUCH higher (mostly installation costs).

The concept of tankless is sound but the technology isn't there from an efficiency of use standpoint. Aside from using less energy.

I don't know much about hybrids but I can't imagine they solve any of the issues of pure tankless systems, other than quicker hot water when you open the faucet. But they still would have, I assume, all the maintenance expenses.

Hybrids negate the issue of flow rate and using multiple hot water streams at once. A hybrid system will have a 40 gallon tank with a tankless heater.....and therefore in theory you can take all the showers you want at the same time.

With tankless, if two people are showing at the same time, one person is getting a significantly colder shower than the other. If the dishwasher is on at that time too, you're all getting one.

Plumber left, and it looks like this fix will cost about $125 in labor. If it keeps having problems, I'm not going to keep throwing money at it. No matter what, I'll get a gas unit--I have gas heat, stove, and my current hot water heater is gas. Love it--my utility bills are crazy cheap.

Obli, how does yours handle multiple hot water streams at once? Do you have the straight up tankless, or a hybrid?

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

It's a "free market" out there....caveat emptor....they can charge you anything you are willing to pay. I would respect the industry more if they advertised their labor rates and then charged me accordingly.

I fixed my own. I had a similar issue, in that mine cycles on/off/on/off from time to time. I had determined that my issue was a pressure switch/moisture/condensation in the switch tube. I now perform regular basic maintenance on both my furnace and water heater.

You're more adventurous than me, Ned!

I don't mind doing small projects, but gas and electric are two areas I'm not comfortable.

 

[Lionsburg]

The only reason to replace an entire water heater is if the tank itself is leaking. Everything else is just replaceable components on the outside of the tank

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

The only reason to replace an entire water heater is if the tank itself is leaking. Everything else is just replaceable components on the outside of the tank

Sure....but at a high cost.

I'm not spending $500-$700 in labor and various parts for a crappy AO Smith brand when I can get a new one for around the same.

 

[Lionsburg]

A new igniter and flame sensor for that water heater should cost around $75. If someone is charging $500 labor to put that on I need to leave the fire service and get back into plumbing!!

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

A new igniter and flame sensor for that water heater should cost around $75. If someone is charging $500 labor to put that on I need to leave the fire service and get back into plumbing!!

They weren't charged $500 just for that. But, the igniter was the first in a line of other failures that led to just under $600 in labor.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

A new igniter and flame sensor for that water heater should cost around $75. If someone is charging $500 labor to put that on I need to leave the fire service and get back into plumbing!!

The flame sensor is easy to maintain/replace. Before the plumber comes out, I would either:
1. Pull it out and run sandpaper over it (over 50% odds this fixes your problem)
2. Replace it
Google and Youtube have all the answers

 

[AvalonJohn]

I just use the conventional 40gal Bradford-White. Runs and works great. I just replace them every 12 years, so I don't end up with an unexpected pool in the basement.