The two teams I most often hear as mentioned as the greatest MLB team of all time are the 1976 Cincinnati Reds and the 1998 New York Yankees. Who would have won a 7-game series between the two?
OT: Who wins a 7-game series: 1976 Cincinnati Reds vs 1998 New York Yankees
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Sadly, the yankees. "Best team money can buy" of those two teams. Why? Yankees starting rotation included three very good pitchers: David Cone, Andy Pettit and David Wells (and he was a creep, BTW). Mariano Rivera and Mike Staunton as well. That Reds team had a heck of a lineup but weak pitching. When it comes to a 7 game series, the reds would have thrown Gary Nolan, Pat Zackry and Jack Billingham. Yankees Pettite, Wells and Cone with Stanton setting up and Rivera closing.
But the '27 Yankees are the best of all time.
But the '27 Yankees are the best of all time.
The '75 Reds might be a better match-up.
But totally agree: the '27 Yankees are the standard. An absolutely legendary team and the most dominant in the history of the game.
The 75-76 Reds team was the machine back then. Travel through their lineup and they were all - not only All-stars - but many were future HOF selectees. I'd have to go with the 75 Reds
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The Reds teams of the 70's had the best everyday lineup I ever saw, offensively they would bludgeon you but just average pitching. I'd have to give a slight edge to the Yankees because of the pitching. It's scary to think how good that Reds team would have been if they had better pitching.
I am old enough to actually have watched the Big Red Machine of the 1970s.
Without a doubt, they were the best baseball team I have seen by far. Their lineup was ridiculous and full of hall of famers. They did not need nor rely on their pitching staff. They were that good!
I believe the wrong poll question was asked. Those Baltimore Oriole Teams of the early 1970s were also better than the 1998 Yankees.
Baltimore had four 20 game winners on the same pitching staff in the same year!
Without a doubt, they were the best baseball team I have seen by far. Their lineup was ridiculous and full of hall of famers. They did not need nor rely on their pitching staff. They were that good!
I believe the wrong poll question was asked. Those Baltimore Oriole Teams of the early 1970s were also better than the 1998 Yankees.
Baltimore had four 20 game winners on the same pitching staff in the same year!
I don't think the 75 yr old players from the 76 Reds could keep up with the 50 yr old players from the 98 Yankees.
Definitely twoall time teams that can’t be proven either way.
Statistically, the Yankees had better #s (winning %, run differential, #1 vs. #3 ERA). But maybe their opponents weren’t as good?
Hated the Reds growing up as they were the biggest obstacle to the Buccos, but they were something. Seems odd wondering if the 2 WS they won was enough.
Statistically, the Yankees had better #s (winning %, run differential, #1 vs. #3 ERA). But maybe their opponents weren’t as good?
Hated the Reds growing up as they were the biggest obstacle to the Buccos, but they were something. Seems odd wondering if the 2 WS they won was enough.
Demolished? It was a 7 game series with the 7th game ending in a 2-1 Pirate victory.
I grew up as a huge Clemente fan and he had one of the greatest individual World Series performances I have seen. But in no way were the Orioles demolished.
I’d argue that any of the following teams could beat the 1998 Yankees:
1975 and 1976 Big Red Machine
1971 Pittsburgh Pirates (their lineup was insane: Oliver, Stargell, Clemente, Cash, Sanguillen)
1972-1974 Oakland Athletics (won 3 consecutive World Series)
1970-1971 Baltimore Orioles (you guys should have seen Brooks Robinson play 3B)
The early 1970s did not have free agency like today’s game. The leagues had fewer teams which enabled an incredible amount of talent concentration.
If you go position-by-position:
C Bench over Posada. Bench battled injuries all year and went on to be WS MVP.
1B Tino Martinez or Tony Perez?
2B Morgan over Knoblauch
SS Jeter over Concepcion
3B Rose vs Brosius. Brosius did have a good year.
LF: Big edge Foster over Curtis
CF: Williams over Geronimo
RF: O'Neill vs Griffey
DH: Strawberry/Raines vs Driessen
Reds team pitching ERA 3.51. Yankees team pitching ERA 3.82.
C Bench over Posada. Bench battled injuries all year and went on to be WS MVP.
1B Tino Martinez or Tony Perez?
2B Morgan over Knoblauch
SS Jeter over Concepcion
3B Rose vs Brosius. Brosius did have a good year.
LF: Big edge Foster over Curtis
CF: Williams over Geronimo
RF: O'Neill vs Griffey
DH: Strawberry/Raines vs Driessen
Reds team pitching ERA 3.51. Yankees team pitching ERA 3.82.
Read my post again. Demolished by the Great One, Roberto Clemente who hit .414 and had a hit in every game and was WS MVP. As good as the Orioles were, that group only won one of three World Series. Somewhat like the A's in the late '80s winning one of three in a row.
An interesting observation which another poster above made was the level of competition faced.
This is a very important factor to consider. Beyond the 1980s, baseball’s talent pool became very diluted and the quality of pitchers decreased dramatically.
In the 1970s, you had pitchers like Carlton, Seaver, Palmer, Ryan, JR Richard, Marichal. These guys actually completed games and several had 300+ strikeouts in a year.
I don’t believe we will ever see concentrated baseball talent like we witnessed in the 1970s.
This is a very important factor to consider. Beyond the 1980s, baseball’s talent pool became very diluted and the quality of pitchers decreased dramatically.
In the 1970s, you had pitchers like Carlton, Seaver, Palmer, Ryan, JR Richard, Marichal. These guys actually completed games and several had 300+ strikeouts in a year.
I don’t believe we will ever see concentrated baseball talent like we witnessed in the 1970s.
The 1971 Reds that you're alluding to was a different team than the 1975-76 Reds.......Griffey, Joe Morgan and probably their most underrated player - CF Geronimo - weren't even part of the 1971 team. The Reda really took off when Joe Morgan was traded to the Reda. Most considered Morgan to be the best all-around player in baseball back then and Griffey went on to be a perennial al-star.
Your comparison advantages/tossups seem based more on the “name” (career) than the specific seasons. If Foster qualifies as a big edge, so would a couple others that didn’t receive that description.
In their respective years, the Yankees led the league in ERA while Reds were fifth. They each led in runs. If comparing actual stats, Yankees scored over 100 more runs and had better run differential in a higher scoring era. Not sure those supporting the Reds want to use numbers.
Foster 29/121/.306/.364/.530/.894
Curtis 10/56/.243/.355/.360/.714
You're calling that close?
Like most things in life, relying strictly on numbers or statistics to determine greatness is folly.
Too many variables like level of competition faced by each team, stadium configuration, and the steroids era of baseball.
Evan Royster has more rushing yardage than any RB in Penn State Football history. Using your logic to rely solely on numbers, would you seriously say Royster was the greatest RB in PSU history? Absolutely not.
Would you completely dismiss Bill Russell’s accomplishments because his game stats were underwhelming compared to other centers in the NBA? I hope not.
The eyeball test is very powerful. This topic is very subjective and just opinions which is fine with me. I enjoy the discussion.
I saw both the 1976 Big Red Machine and the 1998 Yankees. That Cincy team was far superior and they were more than just a great offensive team. The Reds had one of the best defensive teams in baseball history. In addition, the competition was stiffer and the overall league talent level was much higher in the 1970s compared to the 1990s.
Just my opinion based on the eyeball test.
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I've been a huge baseball fan (Tigers and Cubs) since the late 50s and while the 1998 Yankees were probably a top 5 team, no team stacked up to those 75-76 Reds teams. They had many teams beat (between the ears) before the game even started. Bench and Morgan were probably the GOAT at their positions and - of course - Rose is the all-time hits leader.
But, you couldn't be faulted for taking either one. Personally, I think the 27 Yankees were the GOAT
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No, but there are others with a greater difference that did not get that extra description.
It’s in the similar vein of how team ERAs was presented earlier. No mention of relative ranking of said team’s pitching in their respective years. No mention of teams runs scored either. I mean, if one compares what a team allows, shouldn’t there also be a comparison of what they scored.
It looks like you selectively presented positives to support one side.
Tell it to the other guy who attempted to do a biased position by position breakdown and then toss in the ERA comparison.
Don’t tell me what my logic is, and a career total for yards has nothing to do with how good a specific season was or wasn’t.
Stay on topic. But, since you brought it up, how many titles did those Reds have in comparison to those Yankees?
Careful what facts you bring up.
You know what? There are plenty of other old farts on here who also saw the Reds. As my first post stated, who was better can’t be proven either way. But if someone wants to present stats, do it fairly and thoroughly.
So while the Reds pitching staff had a lower ERA than the '98 Yankees and only finished 5th, would that not indicate that runs were harder to come by in 1976 than in 1998? How truly tall is the tallest midget?
Which would make the Yankees increased numbers look not quite so good after all, and they did have the DH and not pitchers batting to aid their hitting, run scoring, production, etc.
I respect the value of pitching. Pitching, pitching, pitching, one can never have enough pitching, but I lived through seeing FOUR 20-game winners lose a World Series to a team without a 20-game winner largely due to one individual. The world-class pitching of the Atlanta Braves with three future hall-of-famers on it, Maddux, Smoltz and Glavine, only produced one World Series victory in how many consecutive playoff years?
I think the Reds were the greatest team ever. Every player of their starting eight was either a future Hall-of-Famer, a multi-time All-Star or a multiple Gold Glove winner if not all three.
I don’t think anyone has denied there was less scoring in the 70s. Although, I’m not sure what is meant by harder, but it doesn’t matter.
You can’t help yourself with your biasedness can you? But, since you chose to include a disparaging remark, do you know the actual number of runs given up by each team is much closer than the ERAs?
Reds 3.91 and Yankees 4.05. That either reflects poorly on a team’s defense, or it highlights differences in official scorers’ determinations. Either way, it doesn’t improve the Reds look when you are pointing out the general MLB scoring.
A couple of those big name veterans had less stellar years in ‘76. Guessing that year was chosen over ‘75 because Foster and Griffey emerged, but ‘75 had the better record even with postseason games included.
Btw, I’d have it split 4-4 in a positional breakdown comparison.
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