PA HS Wrestling thread
- Thread starter El-Jefe
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I just don't get it. Maybe because there were no team championships when I wrestled. It was all about the individual results.
Cathedral Prep recruited wrestlers before there were team championships. I know first hand. But nobody really cared. If they had the best program (which they did not regularly have), nobody cared.
But now there are team trophies and everyone gets their knickers in a twist (which they should). Trophy chasers are a joke. It's meaningless when you stack the deck, and to get all excited about winning is just stupid. I honestly don't know why these guys do it. Do they like playing pick up ball with 8 year olds and dunking on them? SMH
Cathedral Prep recruited wrestlers before there were team championships. I know first hand. But nobody really cared. If they had the best program (which they did not regularly have), nobody cared.
But now there are team trophies and everyone gets their knickers in a twist (which they should). Trophy chasers are a joke. It's meaningless when you stack the deck, and to get all excited about winning is just stupid. I honestly don't know why these guys do it. Do they like playing pick up ball with 8 year olds and dunking on them? SMH
Follow up question. Then why have separate class championships? If the classes (smaller vs bigger schools) are intended to level the "team" playing fields and if 1) team champions are really irrelevant and 2) the championships are really all about individuals, why not let all the states wrestlers in each weight class compete against one another? Not meant sarcastically, if it comes across that way sorry but its your fault for introducing me to those Trackside donuts down here in Naples.
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So that more PA kids get college scholarships?
In all seriousness, that's probably not the reason way back when but it's definitely the effect now. That state 3rd kid might not even qualify for states with a combined regional bracket. And that state 7th might not get thru districts in a combined bracket.
Just a guess here, but in a single class individual postseason, some Districts would likely need to add more sectionals, and with fewer qualifiers from each into districts. That could become an issue with coaches and parents.
Pat wrestled for Beth Catholic in early to mid 80s.
He wrestled for Pitt in late 80s.
I saw this on another board talking about D11 JH results- the amount of transfers peaked a few yrs ago.
“My question is, is there any early indication where we'll see kids next year? I'd assume the Northampton and Nazareth kids will stick around, but a decent segment of the rest could be up for grabs.”
“Going back to 2016, a minimum of five DH JH finalists transfer schools for high school (with highs of 9 in 2016 and 2019). 2019 was also a year where finalists were really spread out by school, but kids from Dieruff, Pleasant Valley, Emmaus, Palisades, Easton, Bangor, Whitehall, and Pen Argyl all ended up somewhere else”
“My question is, is there any early indication where we'll see kids next year? I'd assume the Northampton and Nazareth kids will stick around, but a decent segment of the rest could be up for grabs.”
“Going back to 2016, a minimum of five DH JH finalists transfer schools for high school (with highs of 9 in 2016 and 2019). 2019 was also a year where finalists were really spread out by school, but kids from Dieruff, Pleasant Valley, Emmaus, Palisades, Easton, Bangor, Whitehall, and Pen Argyl all ended up somewhere else”
That D-11 transfer and private school pattern doesn't seem to extend to other strong wrestling areas D-3 and D-7 as far as I can tell. Pittsburgh Central Catholic has had good individuals and Harrisburg McDevitt has also had some talent, but nothing on the order of BECA or NDGP. Or perhaps kids and families can cross school districts more easily?
What makes the difference?
People who worry about winning records lol the same happens in basketball sad to say. Something about private schools wanting to have the best teams.
The difference is the D11 chairmen allows it and knows it’s happening. Most chairmen stop this and he acts like he doesn’t know it’s happening. Hence D11 having four teams in the State finals. Is that area tough, no doubt but no way that would of happened without all the transfers
It seems to be an accepted part of the "culture" in D11. Nobody files complaints there, unlike at D6.
Plus the footprint of D11 is much smaller than D3 or D7. So the talent is concentrated.
I honestly think it has to do with population and that area. I think those school districts are right on top of each other. Can they really track down every case that moves. I'm betting it happens a lot regardless of wrestling it's just apparent to us because we follow wrestling
My bad .I actually should of known that . I saw Santoro wrestle districts after I graduated in 1979.
Mike Brown would of been at BECA during the 70s I think.
I wasn't thinking.
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A friend of ours son who was a good D4 qb as a freshman and sophomore was courted by mcdevitt to come there. Ultimately he left for GA.
My nephew wrestled and was courted to McD from D4. He didn't go ultimately but it was interesting.
Mike was a beast in HS and college. If I remember right, Mike never won nationals, but AAed 3 or maybe 4 times and was brutally tough.
Jerry Rodriguez was probably the bestest 185 pound HS beast.
They had a couple hammers transfers this year and boom competing for state dual medal
My dad took me to see Saucon Valley when they were the best in the state. They were a small public school and declared up to AAA and won states in 1976 with Liberty coming in second. They had 3 State champs, brothers Jerry and Rick Rodriguez, also Jim Zenz won at 105 when he beat Henry Cali of Easton. A little footnote about Henry, he's good on guitar and plays in Lehigh Valley with a woman on vocals. Pretty good. He probably could still make 125 or 133.
Lots of stray thoughts on transfers in D11.
That’s my post on the D11 board about the junior high results. It makes me nervous as a fan when I see a bunch of JH champs from non-traditional schools, usually it means a big consolidation. Becahi always enters a team (Rath, Desmond, and McFillin were all Becahi junior high kids) but this year it was only four kids or so (Keanu Dillard will be in their lineup next year if the lightweights shake out, no other kids medaled). Notre Dame has stopped fielding a JH team, and their transfers seem less predictable than Becahi’s, so I’m mostly curious who they’ll pick up after not really landing much of a freshman class this year. They also mine Jersey a ton, particularly as Veres burns more bridges in Pennsylvania.
As far as challenging transfers - when the first transfer wave was peaking in the mid ‘00s (a different situation, more below) it came to a head with the Alex Meade situation (which was both totally ridiculous and totally justifiable), which got shot down after a challenge and there was what I understand to be strong deterrence put in place. Things stayed pretty calm until Jeff took over at Becahi, and then it became less kids transferring in school and club kids all pooling at a high school. The problem was there was no recourse. It’s not a transfer of Darian Cruz goes to Catty’s middle school but starts his freshman year at Becahi. There’s no rule, so nothing to enforce. I know Mike Labriola wanted to go to Easton instead of Wilson, but was told that transfer would have been scrutinized, so it was easier and require no paperwork to enroll at Becahi. Then once the Becahi situation became ridiculous, everybody just sort of threw up their hands. It’s been the wild Wild West ever since. Aidan Compton this year had to sit out at ND (though he tore his ACL playing football, making it a moot point), but he’s the only wrestling transfer whose been struck since the Hedash kid at Becahi very early in their run (2010 or 11 maybe?).
Again, I’m not sure what schools are going to do - there is a specific carve out in the rules for 8th to 9th graders changing schools, so I don’t think you can do anything about Ayden Smith going from Dieruff to ND for his freshman year. The geography of the LV has been mentioned and is certainly a factor - all of these schools are on top of each other than aren’t in the Poconos. It’s not hard to get to Becahi or ND from pretty much any district in the Valley and a bunch of districts in western Jersey. Now, it’s gotten absurd with the kids from Hackettstown, Fleetwood, Doylestown, Quakertown,
That’s my post on the D11 board about the junior high results. It makes me nervous as a fan when I see a bunch of JH champs from non-traditional schools, usually it means a big consolidation. Becahi always enters a team (Rath, Desmond, and McFillin were all Becahi junior high kids) but this year it was only four kids or so (Keanu Dillard will be in their lineup next year if the lightweights shake out, no other kids medaled). Notre Dame has stopped fielding a JH team, and their transfers seem less predictable than Becahi’s, so I’m mostly curious who they’ll pick up after not really landing much of a freshman class this year. They also mine Jersey a ton, particularly as Veres burns more bridges in Pennsylvania.
As far as challenging transfers - when the first transfer wave was peaking in the mid ‘00s (a different situation, more below) it came to a head with the Alex Meade situation (which was both totally ridiculous and totally justifiable), which got shot down after a challenge and there was what I understand to be strong deterrence put in place. Things stayed pretty calm until Jeff took over at Becahi, and then it became less kids transferring in school and club kids all pooling at a high school. The problem was there was no recourse. It’s not a transfer of Darian Cruz goes to Catty’s middle school but starts his freshman year at Becahi. There’s no rule, so nothing to enforce. I know Mike Labriola wanted to go to Easton instead of Wilson, but was told that transfer would have been scrutinized, so it was easier and require no paperwork to enroll at Becahi. Then once the Becahi situation became ridiculous, everybody just sort of threw up their hands. It’s been the wild Wild West ever since. Aidan Compton this year had to sit out at ND (though he tore his ACL playing football, making it a moot point), but he’s the only wrestling transfer whose been struck since the Hedash kid at Becahi very early in their run (2010 or 11 maybe?).
Again, I’m not sure what schools are going to do - there is a specific carve out in the rules for 8th to 9th graders changing schools, so I don’t think you can do anything about Ayden Smith going from Dieruff to ND for his freshman year. The geography of the LV has been mentioned and is certainly a factor - all of these schools are on top of each other than aren’t in the Poconos. It’s not hard to get to Becahi or ND from pretty much any district in the Valley and a bunch of districts in western Jersey. Now, it’s gotten absurd with the kids from Hackettstown, Fleetwood, Doylestown, Quakertown,
Rick Rodriguez is one of the great wrestlers that has been lost to history, and has kind of a hard luck resume. Was leading a state semi as a sophomore, then got pinned in the final minute of the match. Was the best 138 in the state probably as a junior, but a broken hand in January ended his season. Rolled to a title as a senior. Had something like 65 falls in 95 career matches. Was 44-10 in college when a shoulder injury in a car accident ended his wrestling career during his sophomore season. Jerry I think is still involved with the Saucon Valley youth program. He was the 3 or 4 seed one year at NCAAs, but got pinned in a scramble in a round before losers could wrestle back. Was blood round in his senior season. Zenz was a two-time All American, taking 6th and 3rd. Not a bad trio.
Henry Callie’s other fun fact is he beat out Bobby Weaver for the varsity spot at 98 when Weaver was a freshman and made the future Olympic gold medalist wrestle Exhibition. Weaver turned the tables and won the spot and a state title the next year, forcing Callie up to 105 where he was the state runner-up.
Bernie Brown actually was the better HS wrestler between the Brown brothers. He was a two-time state champ and was 123-5 in his career. Finished his career on what I think is the longest winning streak at Becahi. Was kind of caught between 190 and heavyweight at Lehigh and never became a star, best finish was blood round as a senior. Mike was a one time state champ, then was Lehigh’s first four-time All American, and was a runner-up as a junior.
If I remember correctly Bernie Brown senior year he won state title at 190 but wrestled heavyweight most of the year. He went head to head against an Attiyah ? (not George) in local match at heavyweight and beat him. Attiyah I think went on to win State title that year at heavyweight.
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The Easton lightweights were pretty special during the 70s-80s. The Weavers, Cali, Cuvo,ect.
Do we put Willie in the mix¿??😉
To add to the Henry Cali bio.
The name of the duet Henry plays with is
"A Joe and a Jane". They would play at the Lakeside Bar in Saylorsburg. Henry owned the bar and sold it this past summer. The Duet now plays throughout out Lehigh Valley. Typically acoustic stuff from 70s-90s.
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Can’t include Saylor as an all time great, I think his top finish was 3rd? Maybe I’m wrong
D6 has 3 Catholic Schools, McCort, Guilfoyle in Altoona and Carrol in Ebensburg.
One thing that’s forgotten with Bishop McCort is this was their second violation in 4 years. The school hasn’t helped themselves in the way they’ve responded on a lot of levels.
You are correct, but Guilfoyle doesn't have a wrestling team. The other 2 do.
That's right. They did a long time ago.
St. Joseph's Catholic Academy in Boalsburg isn't a D6 Catholic school?
I was curious what the ratio of private school to public school is in District 11 . I looked it up. Currently there are a total of 53 high schools in District 11. 4 of them are charter schools. 9 schools are private. Which would leave 40 schools being public. That would work out to just shy 25% of the schools in District 11 are private (excluding charter schools). Now this certainly doesn't represent a student enrollment percentage. Some private schools do not even offer many sports options. Notre Dame of East Stroudsburg is limited in sports participation.
I am curious how this compares to other Districts. I would think the Philadelphia District 1 and outer District 12 would have the largest private school percentages and the largest student enrollment in private schools.
I am curious how this compares to other Districts. I would think the Philadelphia District 1 and outer District 12 would have the largest private school percentages and the largest student enrollment in private schools.
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From around that same time, Steve Sefter of Cedar Cliff was very good.
Undefeated in 1979, at States he had wins at 185 of
21-0
0:16 pin
6-1
8-0 final
2nd at States 155 as a freshman
2nd at States 167 as freshman
Champ at 185 junior as noted above
Champ at UNL as a senior
DII Super Regional is at UPJ today with results on Track, video on Flo.
https://pittjohnstownathletics.com/sports/wrestling
https://pittjohnstownathletics.com/sports/wrestling
Speaking of private school domination, BECA has 10 wrestlers in the D-11 AAA Semifinals
www.pa-wrestling.com
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Yes, but doesn’t Nazareth have 12?Speaking of private school domination, BECA has 10 wrestlers in the D-11 AAA Semifinals
PA-Wrestling.com : Your online resource for Pennsylvania Wrestling
Right you are. 12 for 12 in the Q-finals is very impressive. 9 pins!
PA-Wrestling.com : Your online resource for Pennsylvania Wrestling
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What about the old bishop neuman school in Williamsport not sure what it's called now or is that a public school
And he was originally from State College, His older brother Andy was in my class and set the single season rushing record for SCHS breaking the record set the year before by Larry Suhey (2x PIAA wrestling champ) and then broken 3 straight years after Andy by Matt Suhey. Some of you may have heard of him.
