Penn State faculty fear the school will close campuses across the state

[harbest]

Penn State faculty fear the school will close campuses across the state; Officials won’t give them a straight answer

<p><em>This story was produced by the State College regional bureau of Spotlight PA, an independent, nonpartisan newsroom dedicated to investigative and public-service journalism for Pennsylvania. Sign up for Talk of the Town, a weekly newsletter of local stories that dig deep, events, and more...

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[PaoliLion]

Penn State faculty fear the school will close campuses across the state; Officials won’t give them a straight answer

<p><em>This story was produced by the State College regional bureau of Spotlight PA, an independent, nonpartisan newsroom dedicated to investigative and public-service journalism for Pennsylvania. Sign up for Talk of the Town, a weekly newsletter of local stories that dig deep, events, and more...

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Republicans have been defunding the university for decades. The state funding for PSU has been flat for 5 years.

 

[doctornick]

I’m sorry to be cynical but is there really such a need for all the Commonwealth campuses any more? If people want local schools they can go to Community colleges for much cheaper and many of these campuses are smaller than many high schools with fewer than a thousand students.

I feel like some consolidation would be a good thing.

 

[voltz99]

Republicans have been defunding the university for decades. The state funding for PSU has been flat for 5 years.

The more we funded the schools the more the Dems running schools expanded and raised prices. How many campuses do you need in a state that is not growing?

Why is tuition up 500% in the last 25 years?

 

[PaoliLion]

The more we funded the schools the more the Dems running schools expanded and raised prices. How many campuses do you need in a state that is not growing?

Why is tuition up 500% in the last 25 years?

The defunding caused tuition to be raised. 70% of the school’s revenue was from the state in the 70’s, now it’s less than 10%. Socialism was rampant, apparently, in the 70’s.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

The more we funded the schools the more the Dems running schools expanded and raised prices. How many campuses do you need in a state that is not growing?

Why is tuition up 500% in the last 25 years?

What was aggregate general inflation over the last 25 years? I am taking institutional inflation which is much high than for household inflation. The cost of maintain these physical plants is enormous. Combine that with lower enrollment and lower funding you have a more complete picture of this mess.

 

[Marylovesthelions]

Google tuition at state universities in America. They should close them all. They are grossly inefficient. U of FL tuition is $6800. PA tax payers have been screwed for several decades. My tuition, 1963-1967 was $1,450/yr and h ever changed.
If you have teens and work from home, move to FL. Plus, no income tax.

 

[NealPaige]

The more we funded the schools the more the Dems running schools expanded and raised prices. How many campuses do you need in a state that is not growing?

Why is tuition up 500% in the last 25 years?

Out of state tuition is $40,000 a year. Add in my daughter's rent and living expenses, we're over 55k/yr. That's a disgrace. If I had another child to put through college,
child, she wouldn't be going to Penn State.

 

[Lion84]

Republicans have been defunding the university for decades. The state funding for PSU has been flat for 5 years.

MMM - let's see Democrats have been Governors of Pa for the last 10 years so I guess that had zero to do with PSU funding.

 

[Obliviax]

The defunding caused tuition to be raised. 70% of the school’s revenue was from the state in the 70’s, now it’s less than 10%. Socialism was rampant, apparently, in the 70’s.

Yeah...walking around campus, I can see that no money is being spent and the University has nothing to invest. (Their endowment is just short of $5B, it increased $375m in 2024). .

 

[voltz99]

The defunding caused tuition to be raised. 70% of the school’s revenue was from the state in the 70’s, now it’s less than 10%. Socialism was rampant, apparently, in the 70’s.

Weak excuse. Tuition was raised before defunding.

You can thank liberals for out of control spending and expansion.

 

[stf110]

I’m sorry to be cynical but is there really such a need for all the Commonwealth campuses any more? If people want local schools they can go to Community colleges for much cheaper and many of these campuses are smaller than many high schools with fewer than a thousand students.

I feel like some consolidation would be a good thing.

13 of them are under 1000, and of those 7 are under 500 students.
there are 19 campuses other than UP in total.

If you add up the 4 SW Pa campuses you almost get to 1700 students among 4 campuses that all would fit inside a 100 mile circle

 

[doctornick]

Out of state tuition is $40,000 a year. Add in my daughter's rent and living expenses, we're over 55k/yr. That's a disgrace. If I had another child to put through college,
child, she wouldn't be going to Penn State.

But that's pretty consistent with OOS costs for any public school. Per the university website, out of state total cost of attendance (COA) is $56,264 for Penn State University Park.

Out of state costs for similar schools:

Maryland: $61,108
Rutgers: $59,000
Ohio State: $54,738
Michigan St: $64,250
Indiana: $61,506

(I just picked other close Big Ten schools)

Out of state for a public university is pretty expensive for most schools. I don't see PSU as some sort of outlier in that regard.

 

[stf110]

My point for quite a while has been there is an oversaturation of campuses of the various state and state related universities.

Between the State System for Higher Education schools, Penn State and its branch campuses, and Pitt and it's branch campuses you have 3 entities all chasing the same students and often competing within their own systems for the same students. (PSU Beaver going after the same who would go to Allegheny, or Clarion fighting for the same students who would go to Slippery Rock or Pitt Greensburg and Johnstown having a lot of overlap areas).

Many times there are campuses for 2 or 3 of these systems all within an 30 minute drive of each other and in the case of PSU campuses within the same system within 45 minutes to an hour of each other.

 

[rmem]

MMM - let's see Democrats have been Governors of Pa for the last 10 years so I guess that had zero to do with PSU funding.

**** you. PSU tuition has always been at the very top of all public schools. Does not matter who the Governor was. The amount of idiocy on this board is just breathtaking sometimes, and your morons who try to politicize every single thing are just the worst. PA has never supported college education well (taxes). That's just the reality.

 

[doctornick]

13 of them are under 1000, and of those 7 are under 500 students.
there are 19 campuses other than UP in total.

If you add up the 4 SW Pa campuses you almost get to 1700 students among 4 campuses that all would fit inside a 100 mile circle

Yeah, that's my point. Once upon a time these campuses made sense, but I'm not sure they are all that logical as part of the PSU system any more. Ideally, I think it would make more sense to sell them to the state/counties and have them run them as Community Colleges if there seems to be a need for educational outlets in those specific locations.

At the very least, some of the campuses should be able to be combined. Do you really need a Wilkes-Barre and a Scranton campus?

 

[doctornick]

**** you. PSU tuition has always been at the very top of all public schools. Does not matter who the Governor was. The amount of idiocy on this board is just breathtaking sometimes, and your morons who try to politicize every single thing are just the worst. PA has never supported college education well (taxes). That's just the reality.

FWIW, PSU has always been high for in state students compared to similar flagship state universities (and that remains true). and a big part of that was that the school was always funded less per student than peer institutions, mostly as a result of the "state related" nature as opposed to the "state owned" concept for the PASSHE schools.

That being said, though PSU continues to be on the higher end for in state students, it's not quite the outlier it used to be - mostly because costs have gone up so much for all schools that the extra few thousand for PSU a year is a smaller percentage now. PSU is also helped by a relatively affordable cost of living for Centre County.

 

[Obliviax]

Yeah, that's my point. Once upon a time these campuses made sense, but I'm not sure there are all that logical as part of the PSU system any more. Ideally, I think it would make more sense to sell them to the state/counties and have them run them as Community Colleges if there seems like a need for educational outlets.

At the very least, some of the campuses should be able to be combined. Do you really need a Wilkes-Barre and a Scranton campus?

Branch campuses are certainly diminished. Universities really need to rethink their models.

The advent of high speed internet now allows you to get a degree from almost any university from home. Why have remote campuses?

To me going to college is twofold: formal education and having a halfway house to learn how to become an adult. Everyone knows the idiocy of being a Frosh while seniors seem so mature. What a change in four/five years. But when those years now cost $300k is it really worth it? I know people that are buying condos in AZ just off campus at the U of AZ. Their kid is going to take home school classes, participate in college activities and use the $200k they saved to offset the cost of the condo. Later, they'll sell that condo and get their money back (parents are also calling it their primary residence to get away from Ohio income tax which is ~ 8%).

All of this leads to value decisions now being made. These remote campuses don't resemble the life of the main campus and don't have the value. both in terms of entertainment or scholarship. So it makes complete sense to shut them down if they aren't making money.

 

[stf110]

Yeah, that's my point. Once upon a time these campuses made sense, but I'm not sure there are all that logical as part of the PSU system any more. Ideally, I think it would make more sense to sell them to the state/counties and have them run them as Community Colleges if there seems like a need for educational outlets.

At the very least, some of the campuses should be able to be combined. Do you really need a Wilkes-Barre and a Scranton campus?

Or the fact that Penn State Beaver is about 30 minutes from Greater Allegheny, and also PSU Beaver is literally like 15 minutes from CCBC. And there is no economies of scale in trying to offer a diverse package of programs and classes to 300-400 undergrads.

 

[joeaubie21]

If the odious BoT would stop farting around and properly honor Paterno watch how donations would jump.

But they're too busy being assholes trying to piss off every one with their childish stuff.

 

[PSU4U]

I’m sorry to be cynical but is there really such a need for all the Commonwealth campuses any more? If people want local schools they can go to Community colleges for much cheaper and many of these campuses are smaller than many high schools with fewer than a thousand students.

I feel like some consolidation would be a good thing.

TRADE SCHOOLS.

Get a job you were actually trained in right away. Become more profitable sooner at 1/4 the cost. Become debt free sooner. Get married build your home produce children and live a content/happy life.

 

[LMTLION]

A number of the branch schools need to go away where there is geographical concentration of state schools, or they should become specialized in areas of labor shortages in the economy, such as nursing.

 

[tboyer]

The college-age population is shrinking and some of these campuses are simply not competitive. Quite a few of them exist only because of the political power of the local legislators. Penn State tuition is high, and kids can save a lot of money by getting their 1st two years at a community college and then transfer to U Park for their final two years. More and more community colleges have the coursework to support this so there is just less mission for a 2 year commonwealth campus.

Generally the branch campuses with 4 year programs (Berks, Abington) are doing better than the ones without. Tuition is high for them too, but they do allow kids to save money by living at home and earn a 4 year degree so there is a competitive edge there. I know a young woman doing this -- she is very smart, probably Schreyer-level smart, but she doesn't want the debt she would have to take on to study at U Park @ close to $40k/year.

Because of the decline in college-age population and what is likely to be a drastic reduction in international students, colleges are going to have to offer good value or go out of business. Non-distinguished private colleges without strong endowments are closing at a very rapid rate right now and high-tuition state universities are feeling it too.

 

[Still in State College]

The Commonwealth Campus system has been a problem since I was a student. It is pretty amazing when you see a map. I can see having a campus in the four corners and Harrisburg but the fact that you have Fayette, McKeesport, Beaver and New Kensington in the Pittsburgh area and Altoona and Dubois near UP doesn't make any sense. The expenses to run all those sites far outpace their need.

As to overall college cost, I see all of the latest and greatest amenity rich housing site being built and occupied and it is no wonder that they cost so much. now everybody has a car and few share bedrooms, so it is no wonder everybody is racking up huge debt.

 

[Fletchster1]

World needs ditch diggers too.

 

[voltz99]

What was aggregate general inflation over the last 25 years? I am taking institutional inflation which is much high than for household inflation. The cost of maintain these physical plants is enormous. Combine that with lower enrollment and lower funding you have a more complete picture of this mess.

Nowhere near 500%. Income might have doubled. Housing doubled.

You mention the cost to maintain physical plants is enormous. Enrollment is down. Pa is a very low growth state and central pa is losing population. You omitted EXPANSION. If enrollment is down what kind of morons, expands?

 

[diontechristmas]

We have too many PSU branches, Pitt branches and state schools. Even some of the state schools have branch campuses. It was once a worthy endeavor to bring education to underserved and rural corners of the state, but it’s now bloated and only supported by legislator “favors”. Nobody wants to approve or force closure of any of these places as they know the one in their district will be next.

The rural schools in western PA like Clarion and Edinboro are in outrageous trouble even after consolidation. They have huge declines in enrollment with completely empty dorms and gutted programs from 50% plus enrollment decreases. They’re not coming back. Serious conversations need to happen now on reshaping public higher education in the state.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

The more we funded the schools the more the Dems running schools expanded and raised prices. How many campuses do you need in a state that is not growing?

Why is tuition up 500% in the last 25 years?

This is very true - most of the absurd tuition increases have benefitted University Employees far more than it has benefitted students in the form of increased value of their degree - in fact, the value of college degrees has plunged as the market has been flooded with college degrees funded by families (parents mortgaging their homes, etc...) and students themselves going deep in debt to fund the ridiculous cost of these degrees at the very same time the value of the degree is plunging due to the number of degrees being issued annually which has skyrocketed across the US (it has gotten to the point that a college degree is almost as common as a high school degree).

It used to be claimed that the cost of a degree along with the income forgone during the 4-5 years it took to achieve it, were worth it as the PV (Present Value) of the higher average earnings over your career would be greater than the Cost of the Degree + the earnings foregone while in school. There is no way in hell this equation holds true anymore as the Cost of a Degree (Tuition + Room & Board) is approaching half a million for most students at major Universities by itself (the foregone earnings is another $100K-$200K).

Many college graduates cannot even find "professional" jobs at this point, the market is so flooded with undergraduate degrees - let alone an undergraduate degree commanding a premium over your career!

The biggest winner over the past 25 years of exploding higher education tuitions has been University bureaucrats and professors via higher salaries and benefits (including long-term retirement benefits) - it certainly has not been students and their families who have funded this boon for hypocritocal ivory tower elites.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Google tuition at state universities in America. They should close them all. They are grossly inefficient. U of FL tuition is $6800. PA tax payers have been screwed for several decades. My tuition, 1963-1967 was $1,450/yr and h ever changed.
If you have teens and work from home, move to FL. Plus, no income tax.

Plus no house insurance just an insurance bill. Lol just kidding. My oldest moved to FL to live with my parents his senior year. He had just 1 phys ed credit to graduate at the time. 12 months later he completed his sophomore in GIS using a local community college with in Hernando County , Florida before heading off to USF in St Pete with a bright future scholarship. All his non lab and elective courses were completed while in highschool.

Nowhere near 500%. Income might have doubled. Housing doubled.

You mention the cost to maintain physical plants is enormous. Enrollment is down. Pa is a very low growth state and central pa is losing population. You omitted EXPANSION. If enrollment is down what kind of morons, expands?

How is housing relevant. Inflation for institutional plants and facilities does not involve housing per se. Enlighten me on the expansion... I have not followed it...

 

[rmem]

I don't know why people are so highly criticizing the campus system PSU has without considering how much the world has changed around it. When it was constructed it mostly made sense -- and almost all of you are negating the major benefit of residents being able to do their first two years at a branch campus and then finish at UP (or many other branch campuses) to get a 4-year degree. Historically that has been a VERY good thing, and I believe only Wisconsin has/had a similar campus system. I know the school wanted to make UP 'more elite' and so sacrificed the same curriculum being offered at every campus. There were reasons for that, but many here seem to not grasp the value of that kind of system.

To do over today, of course PSU would not set up a system like this. But you guys act like online courses were around 25 years ago - they were not. So it is a problem when you've built this huge infrastructure but now it is highly inefficient. This is not an easy problem to solve and those saying "Oh, just close 15 campuses" are extremely short-minded. There are repercussions to doing that.

University administration has always been a major detractor to tuition costs and it is in every system, not just Penn State. I think everyone in every system would be shocked to see how many 'administrators' make hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's always been a huge problem and it is not easily correctable without nuclear options that have side affects no one is thinking about.

 

[CJFisJoePaII]

I don't know why people are so highly criticizing the campus system PSU has without considering how much the world has changed around it. When it was constructed it mostly made sense -- and almost all of you are negating the major benefit of residents being able to do their first two years at a branch campus and then finish at UP (or many other branch campuses) to get a 4-year degree. Historically that has been a VERY good thing, and I believe only Wisconsin has/had a similar campus system. I know the school wanted to make UP 'more elite' and so sacrificed the same curriculum being offered at every campus. There were reasons for that, but many here seem to not grasp the value of that kind of system.

To do over today, of course PSU would not set up a system like this. But you guys act like online courses were around 25 years ago - they were not. So it is a problem when you've built this huge infrastructure but now it is highly inefficient. This is not an easy problem to solve and those saying "Oh, just close 15 campuses" are extremely short-minded. There are repercussions to doing that.

University administration has always been a major detractor to tuition costs and it is in every system, not just Penn State. I think everyone in every system would be shocked to see how many 'administrators' make hundreds of thousands of dollars. It's always been a huge problem and it is not easily correctable without nuclear options that have side affects no one is thinking about.

University bureaucrats are self-interested liars and hypocrites - there is not an economist worth his salt that would claim this model is anything but beneficiary to the ivory-tower University bureaucrats (absurdly and incessantly preaching the "value of an education") and directly, and significantly, detrimental to the students, and their families, that this huckster pitch is incessantly pitched to.

Most large Universities are absurdly over-built and have become more concerned with their pointless, self-interested "empire building" than what is best for the students (and their families who are often financing these degrees with absurd mountains of debt).

 

[Texas Lion]

How about this.....make all the campuses JuCo's with complete athletic programs. Their Associates Degrees could be pathways should they choose to continue at University Park. If they don't we have another stream of graduates and Penn Staters in the system.

 

[voltz99]

Close campuses with low enrollment. Cut the BS. The same with Psac. Cheney and Mansfield for starters.

 

[voltz99]

How about this.....make all the campuses JuCo's with complete athletic programs. Their Associates Degrees could be pathways should they choose to continue at University Park. If they don't we have another stream of graduates and Penn Staters in the system.

At the end of the day some of those JUCOs are losing money and will need to close.

 

[Texas Lion]

At the end of the day some of those JUCOs are losing money and will need to close.

A Juco Education should not cost as much as a 4 year education. That's the point. Why go to Penn State DuBois when the coast of tuition is relatively the same. I looked in to sending kid to PSUD and was quoted around $22,000 maybe? Not paying $22,000 when a southern JuCo gets you the same thing for $5,000.

JuCo's just aren't as big in the north.

 

[LMTLION]

The reality of our state is that solid population growth happens in the southeast quadrant of the state and decline happens everywhere else. Western PA is in a lot of trouble with populations falling off the cliff. I’ve said this before, but it’s pathetic that the Allentown and Reading school districts are not much smaller than the Pittsburgh school district in student population size. That demonstrates the dynamic.

 

[Wallace Breen]

Penn State faculty fear the school will close campuses across the state; Officials won’t give them a straight answer

<p><em>This story was produced by the State College regional bureau of Spotlight PA, an independent, nonpartisan newsroom dedicated to investigative and public-service journalism for Pennsylvania. Sign up for Talk of the Town, a weekly newsletter of local stories that dig deep, events, and more...

www.timesleader.com

This is a real threat and why we should NOT be paying 700 plus million for an unneeded stadium renovation, 3 plus million for a coordinator and other general wastes of money that occur in the athletic department. The excess supporting these examples of waste should be steered back into the University to support actual student athletes, not football players.

 

[bcspsu]

This is a real threat and why we should NOT be paying 700 plus million for an unneeded stadium renovation, 3 plus million for a coordinator and other general wastes of money that occur in the athletic department. The excess supporting these examples of waste should be steered back into the University to support actual student athletes, not football players.

I have news for you; PSU's main campus would be in a lot of financial jeopardy if it weren't for all of the revenue that the football program brings into the coffers, not only of the university but of the region. And you can say that for most of the big time football programs.

The main reason why PSU's campus has all of those pretty new buildings, and continues to build more pretty buildings, is because of the football program.

 

[GregInPitt]

The more we funded the schools the more the Dems running schools expanded and raised prices. How many campuses do you need in a state that is not growing?

Why is tuition up 500% in the last 25 years?

Yep, tuition as well as R&B invlation has been mind boggling over the last 25+ years.

I was fortunate that my two childless aunts gave each of my brothers and I $1k each towards college, so incluiding that and working in high school I had $5k when I went off to PSU main campus in the Fall of 1977 and working summers put myself through 4 years without taking a single loan. Those days are done, but the faculty fears do nothing and they might want to instead consider that their lavish pay, benefits, and pensions, along with out of control building programs over the last 20 years, are the real culprets and reversing some of those costs and programs are the only real way to get back to the PSU we used to know. And that won't happen until the leadership of PSU is cleared out for a restart. Trump will be available in 2029 so lets start recruiting him now to get him to come and Make PSU Great Again!!!

 

[doctornick]

Yep, tuition as well as R&B invlation has been mind boggling over the last 25+ years.

I was fortunate that my two childless aunts gave each of my brothers and I $1k each towards college, so incluiding that I had $5k when I went off to PSU main campus in the Fall of 1977 and working summers put myself through 4 years without taking a single loan. Those days are done, but the faculty fears do nothing and they might want to instead consider that their lavish pay, benefits, and pensions, along with out of control building programs over the last 20 years, are the real culprets and reversing some of those costs and programs are the only real way to get back to the PSU we used to know. And that won't happen until the leadership of PSU is cleared out for a restart. Trump will be available in 2029 so lets start recruiting him now to get him to come and Make PSU Great Again!!!

To be clear though, that's not unique to PSU in the slightest. Higher Education has gotten ridiculously expensive everywhere. For better or worse, PSU is just doing the exact same stuff as their peer institutions.

Don't get me wrong, I think leadership in academics have done a crappy job in keeping higher education affordable, but that's a widespread issue not something specific to PSU.