Penn State "remains resolute" that discrimination is important
- Thread starter heckmans
- Start date
... And success rates based on ACT or SAT have proven to be less accurate at predicting performance than other measurable. PSU, in fact, weights other factors higher than those you reference. I represented PSU at college fairs in the Midwest before retiring. The weight of SATs scores for admission criteria are, in part, just what this group is aiming at having changed.I'm sure this will deter legacy admissions, however those pursuing this lawsuit aren't likely to get the outcome they seek.
"Many colleges use SAT scores for admissions and financial aid decisions.
More selective institutions require high SAT scores for entry-and there
are even bigger race gaps at the top of the score distribution. Of those
scoring above 700, 43% are Asian and 45% are white, compared to 6%
Hispanic or Latino and 1% Black."
SAT math scores mirror and maintain racial inequity | Brookings
The math section of the SAT mirrors race gaps—what can we do about it?www.brookings.edu
I agree the outcomes are going to be interesting but I hope that this group brings the relevant statistics. I still don't think anyone in a free nation should be denied the opportunity to compete using their gray matter... Given the failure rates in year 1 and 2 across the spectrum of those that matriculate.
Do you have any data on "success rates based on ACT or SAT have proven to be less accurate at predicting performance than other measurable."?
Oh, and very few people "think anyone in a free nation should be denied the opportunity to compete". I don't know anyone who believes people should be denied the opportunity to compete, do you know anyone?
It's about the parents, nothing more or less.
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I don't think they want the opportunity to compete. They want preference in lieu of competing. Asians desperately want the opportunity to compete and will outwork all but maybe those of Indian decent or perhaps other recent immigrants from countries like maybe Nigeria.
Americans, eh, we are fairly lazy in comparison to recent immigrants families. I can tell you in grad school that the Chinese nationals outworked pretty much every American in my cohort.
Yes, I could ... and the statistics come from PSU research which and every other study on the subject concurs. I can go in my attic and pull out the documentation of the studies they have me for use in college fare presentations which I am not going to do ...or you might try Google, Bing or duck duck Go ... Etc, if your up to it. I figure if you found your way here you might be able to find it on your own.
I’d this data broken down by area of study? Are ACTs or SATs poor indicators for engineering, computers, math, biology, chemistry?
Of is this some general study including art, music, literature, and more? And I have nothing against these disciplines as I love music and appreciate art.
My nephew is a very good artist but lousy at math. It’s my guess that is common on the humanities.
If so, it would wise for a university to emphasize standardized testing for the sciences but de-emphasize them for the humanities,
Danny - the world needs ditch-diggers too.
But seriously, academic smarts are needed is some job functions but not all. How many of us have experienced that coworker who is a master of all the soft skills of management? Knows enough to make good decisions and reads people or has good business sense? You think all these book smart test taking out working student have that? Some do some don’t, though I would guess along the way of learning facts and stem, some of the soft skills were compromised. You see diversity of skill sets in the real world and often those who are super smart are not always the best contributors to business success.
I support opportunity and believe diversity on the whole to be a good thing. You just can’t compromise a standard and push away those who meet your standard in the name of diversity. Diversity by promoting one race over another is blatantly racist.
But seriously, academic smarts are needed is some job functions but not all. How many of us have experienced that coworker who is a master of all the soft skills of management? Knows enough to make good decisions and reads people or has good business sense? You think all these book smart test taking out working student have that? Some do some don’t, though I would guess along the way of learning facts and stem, some of the soft skills were compromised. You see diversity of skill sets in the real world and often those who are super smart are not always the best contributors to business success.
I support opportunity and believe diversity on the whole to be a good thing. You just can’t compromise a standard and push away those who meet your standard in the name of diversity. Diversity by promoting one race over another is blatantly racist.
If people are unmotivated, cut off their welfare checks. They will get motivated in a hurry.
Rip finally got to use his ECON 315 Labor Economics paper in a real conversation. Unfortunately his conclusion was that this would come true in the late 80's. His copy of the "Limits to Growth" is quite tattered.
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Can you show the stats that SAT scores are not good predictors of 1st year GPA and graduation rates?
Yes, he said it's all up in his attic beside the abacus.
Who cares if you graduate, it’s all about that Grant money we can get for admitting you. We lose some sure, but next year there’s another wave of money coming in. Onward and upward, it’s supposed to be a for profit deal.
Some might, but I’m not so sure about most. I think they riot aka France and carry on with the social Injustice and reparations banter. We seem to have gone too far down the rabbit hole and are in a viscous cycle from which return will be very difficult. As a society we have made some strides but we remain very racially charged, the we meaning it is a two way street.
As long as the police, DA’s, and judges do their jobs, we will be fine.
Yes it applies across the board. Engineer drop out rates despite SAT and ACT are very high. One exception is in universities in Massachusetts. But that is across the board in all curriculum.
Just a simple +/- study with no granularity. I am quite sure there is a huge discrepancy between the sciences and the humanities.
There are lots of fields of studies that ACT/SATs are accurate. And lots where they are not. There needs to be far better studies to find the best application for standardized tests.
You didn’t answer my question. I didn’t say anything about high school GPAs. SATa combined with GPA are the best predictors. Keep looking for an article about SATs.
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You could say he got Ripped pretty good.
White men are the biggest beneficiaries of affirmative action this country has ever seen.
That’s not rhetoric or metaphor. It's only truth.
If affirmative action is defined as giving someone an extra boost based on race, it’s hard to see how anyone can argue the point. Slots for academic admission, for employment and promotion, for bank loans and for public office have routinely been set aside for white men. This has always been the nation’s custom. Until the 1960s, it was also the nation’s law.
So if we want to talk about achievements being tainted by racial preference, it seems only logical to start there. After all, every worthwhile thing African Americans achieved prior to the mid-‘60s – Berry Gordy’s record label, John Johnson’s publishing company, Alain Leroy Locke’s Rhodes scholarship, Madame C.J. Walker’s hair care empire, Dr. Daniel Hale Williams’ pioneering heart surgery – was done, not just without racial preference, but against a backdrop of open racial hostility.
By contrast, nothing white men have ever achieved in this country was done without racial and gender preferences. Affirmative action.
I know that will be hard for some folks to hear. I know it will leave some white brothers indignant. And I expect many recitations of “up by my bootstraps” and “know what it’s like to be poor.” We all want to feel that we made it on our own merits, and it’s not my intention to diminish the combination of pluck, luck, hard work and ability that typically distinguishes success, whether white, black or magenta.
There’s a word for those who believe race is not a significant factor in white success: delusional.
It is not coincidence, happenstance or evidence of their intellectual, physical or moral superiority that white guys dominate virtually every field of endeavor worth dominating. It is, rather, a sign that the proverbial playing field is not level and never has been.
www.pulitzer.org
That’s not rhetoric or metaphor. It's only truth.
If affirmative action is defined as giving someone an extra boost based on race, it’s hard to see how anyone can argue the point. Slots for academic admission, for employment and promotion, for bank loans and for public office have routinely been set aside for white men. This has always been the nation’s custom. Until the 1960s, it was also the nation’s law.
So if we want to talk about achievements being tainted by racial preference, it seems only logical to start there. After all, every worthwhile thing African Americans achieved prior to the mid-‘60s – Berry Gordy’s record label, John Johnson’s publishing company, Alain Leroy Locke’s Rhodes scholarship, Madame C.J. Walker’s hair care empire, Dr. Daniel Hale Williams’ pioneering heart surgery – was done, not just without racial preference, but against a backdrop of open racial hostility.
By contrast, nothing white men have ever achieved in this country was done without racial and gender preferences. Affirmative action.
I know that will be hard for some folks to hear. I know it will leave some white brothers indignant. And I expect many recitations of “up by my bootstraps” and “know what it’s like to be poor.” We all want to feel that we made it on our own merits, and it’s not my intention to diminish the combination of pluck, luck, hard work and ability that typically distinguishes success, whether white, black or magenta.
There’s a word for those who believe race is not a significant factor in white success: delusional.
It is not coincidence, happenstance or evidence of their intellectual, physical or moral superiority that white guys dominate virtually every field of endeavor worth dominating. It is, rather, a sign that the proverbial playing field is not level and never has been.
The Pulitzer Prizes
www.pulitzer.org
Of course a lot of students drop out of engineering…. It’s a challenging discipline.
Show me studies that say high school GPAs are better indicators for success than standardized tests for engineering programs.
Show me data you dope. Not a single stitch of data relative to SAT scores is presented in this article. My guess is that those with high SAT scores also have high GPA's, however you quoted an opinion piece without any data. Oh, you forgot to include any measure of success. Your reply has been a total failure.
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Isn't it fun to draw opinion and to make policy based on outliers? Go take an elementary statistics class and come back for a discussion.The Pulitzer Prizes
What's the outlier? That from the 1700s to 1960, it was the law in the US to discriminate against women and people of color.
And within 60 years of law to eradicate this, white men complain of unfairness. It will be interesting in 50 years when same people request affirmative action for white men to the detriment of Asians.
And within 60 years of law to eradicate this, white men complain of unfairness. It will be interesting in 50 years when same people request affirmative action for white men to the detriment of Asians.
Genuises are outliers. You aren't one though, and I know that because I wouldn't have had to explain it to you.
It's not 1960 and here in 2023 affirmative action helps many of certain races to have opportunities they have not earned taking them directly from many of other races that had the opportunities stolen from them.
Is there a reason that you believe some races cannot in 2023 compete on merit?
If certain races are conditioned over many decades to achieve at a lower bar because you inculcate this lowered bar as their ceiling then have you not impaired those races? Have you not limited their potential?
Do you not wish to judge based on the content of one's character and not by the color of one's skin?
Racism does not solve past racism. It furthers it.
It is obvious that you have nothing and you will know nothing except your set in stone ignorance.
Prove them wrong then. Provide the data to your claim. It seems reasonable to ask for that.
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