ADVERTISEMENT

Podcast Penn State's wide receiver recruiting struggles continue

If you love your financial planning so much, why are you are wasting your financial planning time here on a sports board? Or, are you here preparing to place your puts and calls over on FanDuel?

Giving money to highschool athletes (The Upper Echelon with privilege lifestyles?) what are you talking about? What percentage of these young people ever play in the NFL and earn a elite lavish lifestyle? I call your financial planning argument nonsense and something beyond the outer limits of disingenuous.
Football athletes get free tuition, room and board, nutrition, meals, housing, coaching, medical care, rehab, tutoring, books, clothing, merch, car leases, you name it, and most of it at a premium level of service not just the bare minimums. Literally 4 years of their life completely paid for, entirely expense free, all while either being trained to be a future NFL athlete with exorbitant salaries and concurrent free education training to go to whatever alternative career they might want. All completely without spending a dime. They have incredibly privileged lifestyles starting in college, which is when they are also begging for your money. The benefits they get easily have a value of hundreds of thousands of dollars before these players even see a cent of NIL money. Why anyone would donate to these athletes when there are literally thousands upon thousands of more worthy causes with people that have far more unmet needs is beyond me. It's your money, do what you want. I'll never pay a dollar to any NIL fund, ever. If that means PSU can't compete with the big boys on the field then so be it.

Then to top it off the program makes hundreds of millions in revenue, coaches get paid millions per year, and they want to ask the general public who averages a salary of ~$60k for donations? Not a chance.
 
Yes, because that's what's holding down our WR recruiting. Not properly venerating Joe Paterno.

If only that Joe statue were up, Quincy Porter and Dezie Jones and Lex Cyrus and Taz Williams would be Lions.

Are you really that clueless?

Or just plain stupid?
 
It’s not cheating, it’s allowed but PSU doesn’t have the funds.
I have seen lots of similar comments. I know little or nothing about how NIL works. Could anyone direct me to source(s) that would explain it and/or confirm how Penn State handles NIL. Thanks.
 
The on-field results of PSU WR's are having just as much of an effect as NIL in my opinion. Look at these WR stats vs commit numbers. I don't think it's necessary to go back any further than 3 years to see the correlation. It would help tremendously to have another top 20 receiver. Even top 50 would probably help.

2023 - 121st in receiving yards (KLS) - 2024 commit average rank (Brown -70, Gonzalez -80ish, Denmark -79) Brown as high as 8
2022 - 157th in receiving yards (PW) - 2023 commit average rank (Taylor -57 -no longer with the team)
2021 - 18th in receiving yards (JD) - 2022 commit average rank (Saunders -16, Ivey -42, Evans -51, Johnson -75) Saunders as high as 5.
Saunders & Ivey were highly rated recruits. It sounds like their problem is size/length.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chalkstream1
It’s not cheating, it’s allowed but PSU doesn’t have the funds.
Please explain. Are you saying that schools like Baylor and South Carolina have more NIL money to offer than PSU? Or are you saying that PSU has spent down their money trying to protect the current roster?
 
Saunders & Ivey were highly rated recruits. It sounds like their problem is size/length.
Are we asking them to play out of position? Their size and length were known commodities when they were brought on board.

And those limitations did not prohibit them from being highly rated, as you have noted.

My understanding of the reasoning in hiring WR coach Hagans was that he was a pretty good recruiter but an excellent developer of talent. Perhaps I was misinformed. But when you constantly change offensive coaches, terminology, philosophy etc. it makes it difficult to access coach and player performance and assign blame.

It's nice to win the recruiting war but the results, which will not be known for several years, will be the ultimate judge.

For instance, back in 2018 PSU had the #3 overall WR Justin Shorter. Also in that recruiting class were #12 Ja'maar Chase (?) and #74 Chris Olave.

Our WR room needs to be better.
 
I have seen lots of similar comments. I know little or nothing about how NIL works. Could anyone direct me to source(s) that would explain it and/or confirm how Penn State handles NIL. Thanks.
 
Yes both schools have more NIL then PSU currently and the majority of PSU's funds are tied to retaining the roster.
Richie,

What is the $22 million you reference in the podcast regarding revenue share? How does that work? Is that money PSU has from the media deal? That is spent how?

As for NIL. I have heard we are top 15, maybe 12. How does that connect with the likes of Baylor and South Carolina having more? And what is our issue? Is it the average Joes not giving $200 a year or we need bigger fish donating like $20,000 a year? Whales giving a half million a year? All of these?
 
Saunders & Ivey were highly rated recruits. It sounds like their problem is size/length.
True, size/length is definitely important for a better passing attack.
My post was more about trying to relate the correlation of having a top 20 WR in receiving yards (JD in 2021) and how it attracts higher rated recruits to commit like it did for the 2022 class (Saunders and Ivey). It's not just NIL causing these higher rated kids to commit elsewhere. Until the offense can produce another top 20-30 receiver in receiving yards, why would another top 10 receiver want to commit to PSU? It's a combination of WR production and NIL.
 
Thanks.
 
Yes both schools have more NIL then PSU currently and the majority of PSU's funds are tied to retaining the roster.
I have trouble believing that those schools have more total NIL money than PSU. I realize this is a few months old and things are changing quicky but they show South Carolina with $10m while Ba

OSU $20m
Mich $16m
PSU $14m
Indy $14m
Mich State $13m
Oregon $11m
Wash $10m
I read another list that had PSU 12th in the country which was well behind OSU but still competitive. That's why I wonder if PSU has a lot of NIL money but a lot has been spent to keep the current roster together instead of using it to attract new recruits. Schools like South Carolina & Baylor don't have nearly as many stud recruits on their roster to pay (or risk losing) which might mean that even though their total pot is smaller they have more money left for new recruits.
 
True, size/length is definitely important for a better passing attack.
My post was more about trying to relate the correlation of having a top 20 WR in receiving yards (JD in 2021) and how it attracts higher rated recruits to commit like it did for the 2022 class (Saunders and Ivey). It's not just NIL causing these higher rated kids to commit elsewhere. Until the offense can produce another top 20-30 receiver in receiving yards, why would another top 10 receiver want to commit to PSU? It's a combination of WR production and NIL.
This past year set us back. From listening to the podcast it seems Cyrus did not pick us for this reason more so than NIL. Our NiL was competitive but he liked how he was going to be utiilized better at South Carolina. Translation: He had more confidence in their passing game.
 
This past year set us back. From listening to the podcast it seems Cyrus did not pick us for this reason more so than NIL. Our NiL was competitive but he liked how he was going to be utiilized better at South Carolina. Translation: He had more confidence in their passing game.
South Carolina has a RS freshman QB named LaNorris Sellers. He was rated 88 and 3 stars.
Penn State's future QB is likely to be Grunkenmeyer. He was rated 95 and 4 stars.
 
South Carolina has a RS freshman QB named LaNorris Sellers. He was rated 88 and 3 stars.
Penn State's future QB is likely to be Grunkenmeyer. He was rated 95 and 4 stars.
Yes, but last season we had a #1 rated 5-star soph QB starting and could only muster 673 yds from the top receiver who ended up transferring out of the program. Some of the recruits actually like to see higher quality on-field results to go along with NIL in order to get their commitment. It's not a stretch to say we need to produce a 1,000 yd receiver to attract higher rated recruits.
 
  • Like
Reactions: chalkstream1
South Carolina has a RS freshman QB named LaNorris Sellers. He was rated 88 and 3 stars.
Penn State's future QB is likely to be Grunkenmeyer. He was rated 95 and 4 stars.
Well something went sideways for him and us and it was not NIL. So your guess is as good as mine. He clearly made part/most of his decision based on what school gave him the best chance to succeed at WR. Last year's train wreck with the passing game could not have helped our cause. He just may have felt more comfortable with the South Carolina coaching staff.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Dynoman
Saunders & Ivey were highly rated recruits. It sounds like their problem is size/length.
Hamler didn't have size or length but he could separate and catch a ball. I remember watching Ivy's films and wondered why he was 4 star...or even a 3 star for that matter. Saunders looked out of shape after her arrived on campus. We shall see.
 
South Carolina has a RS freshman QB named LaNorris Sellers. He was rated 88 and 3 stars.
Penn State's future QB is likely to be Grunkenmeyer. He was rated 95 and 4 stars.
PSU has a long history of putting up relatively pedestrian passing numbers with good QBs though, so those rankings probably don't mean much to a WR recruit. If I'm a top WR, PSU is way, way down my list of programs that I'd consider.
 
Hamler didn't have size or length but he could separate and catch a ball. I remember watching Ivy's films and wondered why he was 4 star...or even a 3 star for that matter. Saunders looked out of shape after her arrived on campus. We shall see.
This all is not good for the WR coach, Hagans. The WRs have got to be significantly better this year or I don't know how he keeps his job.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RickinDayton
PSU has a long history of putting up relatively pedestrian passing numbers with good QBs though, so those rankings probably don't mean much to a WR recruit. If I'm a top WR, PSU is way, way down my list of programs that I'd consider.

Historical records one way or the other probably don't mean much to recruits.

But the performance of a position group within the past 5-6 years matters. And for a "blue blood" program, our WR productivity hasn't been good.

At the pro level, Dotson has been serviceable as a #3 WR and was fantastic in college obviously. Hamler has flopped in the NFL. Parker Washington hasn't really shown anything yet in the pros. In college, Justin Shorter bombed. Daniel George and CSB didn't develop. KLS didn't take the next step and then left. Our WR group as a whole has been a mess.

When we have Jahan Dotson as pretty much the only success story, that's tough.

But yet some seem to think not properly honoring Joe Paterno is the issue......
 
Historical records one way or the other probably don't mean much to recruits.

But the performance of a position group within the past 5-6 years matters. And for a "blue blood" program, our WR productivity hasn't been good.

At the pro level, Dotson has been serviceable as a #3 WR and was fantastic in college obviously. Hamler has flopped in the NFL. Parker Washington hasn't really shown anything yet in the pros. In college, Justin Shorter bombed. Daniel George and CSB didn't develop. KLS didn't take the next step and then left. Our WR group as a whole has been a mess.

When we have Jahan Dotson as pretty much the only success story, that's tough.

But yet some seem to think not properly honoring Joe Paterno is the issue......
Godwin.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bison13
I have trouble believing that those schools have more total NIL money than PSU. I realize this is a few months old and things are changing quicky but they show South Carolina with $10m while Ba

OSU $20m
Mich $16m
PSU $14m
Indy $14m
Mich State $13m
Oregon $11m
Wash $10m
I read another list that had PSU 12th in the country which was well behind OSU but still competitive. That's why I wonder if PSU has a lot of NIL money but a lot has been spent to keep the current roster together instead of using it to attract new recruits. Schools like South Carolina & Baylor don't have nearly as many stud recruits on their roster to pay (or risk losing) which might mean that even though their total pot is smaller they have more money left for new recruits.
That link is not reputable by any means, no one knows the exact amounts each collective has other than the collectives themselves.

Now yes Penn State spends a lot on retention, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are still currently middle of the pack in the Big Ten for NIL. Yes Baylor outspends them, as have a ton of other schools this cycle as well. I can tell you for a fact that SC outspent them on Cyrus, I can tell you for a fact that Baylor outspend them by a mile for Taz. The NIL is nowhere near where it needs to be to compete. Other schools have enough for both retention and recruiting, PSU doesn’t.
 
That link is not reputable by any means, no one knows the exact amounts each collective has other than the collectives themselves.

Now yes Penn State spends a lot on retention, but that doesn’t change the fact that they are still currently middle of the pack in the Big Ten for NIL. Yes Baylor outspends them, as have a ton of other schools this cycle as well. I can tell you for a fact that SC outspent them on Cyrus, I can tell you for a fact that Baylor outspend them by a mile for Taz. The NIL is nowhere near where it needs to be to compete. Other schools have enough for both retention and recruiting, PSU doesn’t.
We have a top 15 recruiting class which does not correlate to a middle of the pack Big Ten team. So do many of the guys we are getting not prioritize NIL? I'm thinking about Granville from Texas, the DT out of Miami the CB out of Southern California, the WR out of Maryland. How in the world did we land these guys with uncompetitive (to the big boys) NIL?
 
We have a top 15 recruiting class which does not correlate to a middle of the pack Big Ten team. So do many of the guys we are getting not prioritize NIL? I'm thinking about Granville from Texas, the DT out of Miami the CB out of Southern California, the WR out of Maryland. How in the world did we land these guys with uncompetitive (to the big boys) NIL?
It likely won’t finish that high as it will likely change before signing day when other schools continue to add prospects.

Every recruit’s first question nowadays is how much will promise me or how much will you pay me? Penn State has lost multiple kids to major NIL deals. There are programs who offer kids $1000+ a month following their commitment and some even get a major "signing bonus" when they commit or when they officially sign with the program.

One SEC program I know (and I'm sure many others), are starting many of their top targets at around $250,000+ a year. Penn State is able to compete with a lot of programs in NIL but there is still a big discrepancy between them and that top tier.

Granville from Texas was considered a huge win, they beat out several good schools for him with some NIL promises.

The DT out of Miami was down to USC or PSU, he wanted the hurricanes but they didn’t want him.

The CB from Southern California, is a unique one who didn’t care a ton about NIL and admired Big Ten play.

The WR out of Maryland was between VT or PSU, a battle that the Nittany Lions win 90% of the time.

They have competitive NIL with the middle tier schools, but are far away from the top schools.
 
Last edited:
It likely won’t finish that high as it will likely change before signing day when other schools continue to add prospects.

Every recruit’s first question nowadays is how much will promise me or how much will you pay me? Penn State has lost multiple kids to major NIL deals. There are programs who offer kids $1000+ a month following their commitment and some even get a major "signing bonus" when they commit or when they officially sign with the program.

One SEC program I know (and I'm sure many others), are starting many of their top targets at around $250,000+ a year. Penn State is able to compete with a lot of programs in NIL but there is still a big discrepancy between them and that top tier.

Granville from Texas was considered a huge win, they beat out several good schools for him with some NIL promises.

The DT out of Miami was down to USC or PSU, he wanted the hurricanes but they didn’t want him.

The CB from Southern California, is a unique one who didn’t care a ton about NIL and admired Big Ten play.

The WR out of Maryland was between VT or PSU, a battle that the Nittany Lions win 90% of the time.

They have competitive NIL with the middle tier schools, but are far away from the top schools.
So are we top 20 in NIL or not that good? This has to be Franklin's #1 priority. Is Kraft also heavily involved?

Just guessing based on what you said but a recruiting class could be $4 or $5 million factoring in signing bonuses. Call it $4 million. Divide that by 1,000 people you get 4,000 per donor. Or you could say we could get 5 big donors who will give $100,000 each and that would mean the 1,000 give $3,500 each.

Pegula could give a lot he is worth billions. There have to be other wealthy supporters of Penn State football. These people who own the suites? Many others. How many season ticket holders...40 000 or more? How many Nittany Lion Club members? Every living past lettermen should be donating. Jay Paterno and the Paterno family should donate.

What about the corporations who pay signage fees, sponsor radio shows, supply food whatever. Could their deals be restructured to include NIL? Isn't Pepsi a sponsor?
 
So are we top 20 in NIL or not that good? This has to be Franklin's #1 priority. Is Kraft also heavily involved?

Just guessing based on what you said but a recruiting class could be $4 or $5 million factoring in signing bonuses. Call it $4 million. Divide that by 1,000 people you get 4,000 per donor. Or you could say we could get 5 big donors who will give $100,000 each and that would mean the 1,000 give $3,500 each.

Pegula could give a lot he is worth billions. There have to be other wealthy supporters of Penn State football. These people who own the suites? Many others. How many season ticket holders...40 000 or more? How many Nittany Lion Club members? Every living past lettermen should be donating. Jay Paterno and the Paterno family should donate.

What about the corporations who pay signage fees, sponsor radio shows, supply food whatever. Could their deals be restructured to include NIL? Isn't Pepsi a sponsor?
You need much more then $4mill per year to fund NIL and recruiting, Ohio State's roster alone this upcoming season is nearly $15 mill in NIL.

They are not Top 20 currently in NIL. Kraft is as involved as he can, but right now the university can't do much in terms of NIL until they approve the bill in congress allowing revenue sharing and allowing collectives to go in house.

Pegula is helping to fund the Beaver Stadium renovations, that is his main focus.

The large majority of the Penn State fanbase is turned off by the idea of paying players or won't donate back until they honor Joe Paterno again. Until they do that, they won't have much donor support.

Corporations are great when it comes to NIL, but they are already paying for advertising all around the stadium, why would they help towards NIL? You have to convince them it's worth their time and so far, they haven't been able to do that.
 
You need much more then $4mill per year to fund NIL and recruiting, Ohio State's roster alone this upcoming season is nearly $15 mill in NIL.

They are not Top 20 currently in NIL. Kraft is as involved as he can, but right now the university can't do much in terms of NIL until they approve the bill in congress allowing revenue sharing and allowing collectives to go in house.

Pegula is helping to fund the Beaver Stadium renovations, that is his main focus.

The large majority of the Penn State fanbase is turned off by the idea of paying players or won't donate back until they honor Joe Paterno again. Until they do that, they won't have much donor support.

Corporations are great when it comes to NIL, but they are already paying for advertising all around the stadium, why would they help towards NIL? You have to convince them it's worth their time and so far, they haven't been able to do that.
Here’s what you tell corporations: They pay good money for advertising. But if they support NIL, get better players, and develop a consistent top five team then far more people will see their advertising. More prime time games, more viewers watching, more playoff games.

And everyone loves a winner. Ads are more effective when the team wins big games and titles. Good for branding to be seen as tied to a winner.

This will get a much better ROI for their advertising dollars. The need is to support both advertising and NIL.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ryoder1
Here’s what you tell corporations: They pay good money for advertising. But if they support NIL, get better players, and develop a consistent top five team then far more people will see their advertising. More prime time games, more viewers watching, more playoff games.

And everyone loves a winner. Ads are more effective when the team wins big games and titles. Good for branding to be seen as tied to a winner.

This will get a much better ROI for their advertising dollars. The need is to support both advertising and NIL.
Love it. Another approach if these corporations do not want any extra cost put on them then I am not sure why Penn State couldn't redirect some of the sponsorship money and other rights fees corporations are paying toward signage to NIL.

Let's say Pepsi pays $10 mill a year for signage and pour rights (have no idea but it is a big price tag) in Beaver Stadium. Go to them and say we are not raising your sponsorship and pour costs beyond inflation but now some of your money is going to support the NIL initiative. Let's say 20% or $2 mill. Then the rest of the pitch is exactly what you stated.
 
So are we top 20 in NIL or not that good? This has to be Franklin's #1 priority. Is Kraft also heavily involved?

Just guessing based on what you said but a recruiting class could be $4 or $5 million factoring in signing bonuses. Call it $4 million. Divide that by 1,000 people you get 4,000 per donor. Or you could say we could get 5 big donors who will give $100,000 each and that would mean the 1,000 give $3,500 each.

Pegula could give a lot he is worth billions. There have to be other wealthy supporters of Penn State football. These people who own the suites? Many others. How many season ticket holders...40 000 or more? How many Nittany Lion Club members? Every living past lettermen should be donating. Jay Paterno and the Paterno family should donate.

What about the corporations who pay signage fees, sponsor radio shows, supply food whatever. Could their deals be restructured to include NIL? Isn't Pepsi a sponsor?
How many season ticket holders will be lost when they see the cost of seating options in the “new” stadium? If the survey I completed is any sort of clue to the future prices . . . .
 

He didn't play here within the past 5-6 years. He has absolutely fantastic for us 8 years ago, and has been a very good pro.

But that kinda proves my point. Current WR recruits were 9-10 years old when Godwin was here. We have very little to point to that will resonate with these recruits.
 
He didn't play here within the past 5-6 years. He has absolutely fantastic for us 8 years ago, and has been a very good pro.

But that kinda proves my point. Current WR recruits were 9-10 years old when Godwin was here. We have very little to point to that will resonate with these recruits.
I think Godwin could still be relevant just because he is still thriving in the NFL. Maybe Hamler still can do something and I thought Dotson was better than the #3 for the Commanders but I guess not. Overall, I agree that we certainly are not prolific in producing high end NFL WRs.
 
I think Godwin could still be relevant just because he is still thriving in the NFL. Maybe Hamler still can do something and I thought Dotson was better than the #3 for the Commanders but I guess not. Overall, I agree that we certainly are not prolific in producing high end NFL WRs.

I do agree that Godwin is worth pointing to, and at least he was a Franklin-era guy (unlike Allen Robinson). But in those ~8 years since Godwin, most of our peer competitors have had a better run of WRs. Even Michigan has had Nico Collins, and Roman Wilson just went in the 3rd round for an offense that barely throws the ball.

This upcoming year will be absolutely huge for us to show that our offense is a good place for QBs an WRs.
 
  • Like
Reactions: RickinDayton
I do agree that Godwin is worth pointing to, and at least he was a Franklin-era guy (unlike Allen Robinson). But in those ~8 years since Godwin, most of our peer competitors have had a better run of WRs. Even Michigan has had Nico Collins, and Roman Wilson just went in the 3rd round for an offense that barely throws the ball.

This upcoming year will be absolutely huge for us to show that our offense is a good place for QBs an WRs.
On the podcast they were really talking up Lyrick Samuel ('25 recruit). Saying he is underrated and should be moving to a 4 star. They thought he is better than both Cyrus and Williams. He is big like 6'4" like Godwin which made me think of him. Not saying we are getting another Godwin but there's hope.

Back to this season, yes,we absolutely need the WR passing game to click. Really curious what we got. Will Fleming be a bonafide #1 star? Can Wallace make the improvement? What about Liam Clifford, heard he has been one of the leaders in that room. Then you have Saunders who everyone is waiting to live up to his recruiting billing.
 
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT