Dude your right on. I want the same thing. It's fun to watch and that's all I personally care about.
Pitt's new AD's 1st phone call to Barbour?
- Thread starter PSUEngineerx2
- Start date
They never talk about the 31 games before Joe Paterno became head coach. By their standards Pitt would have dropped Penn St. a long time ago.
Yeah Like Michigan vs Ohio St.and Army vs Navy. How come you only bring up the Paterno era? How about the 31 games before that? Was Pitt moving to drop Penn St. when they were beating up on the Nits?
My post wasn't a response to "rivalries". Our Pitt friend has changed the topic a couple times and my post was directed toward his claims that P5 schools located in the same state play each other annually. Period. I gave some examples of his erroneous thinking. It wasn't a red herring at all. Don't be confused when the Pitt guy keeps changing the subject.
I agree with your point that a rivalry is based on a long history of playing one another, proximity to one another, a tradition of fighting for the same recruits, close hard-fought games regardless of who has the better team any given year, etc... But I think you are going a bit over-board here with your statement that ASWP dominated PSU in the three decades that preceded Paterno's tenure. In the 31 games that took place prior to Paterno's tenure, Pitt led the series 14-16-1 however, it should be kept in mind that only 4 of those 31 games were PSU home games and 27 of the 31 were Pitt home games. Bob Higgins was coach from 1930-1949 (Joe Bedenk was interim HC in 1949 for Higgins for medical reasons - when it was clear that Higgins could not come back for medical reasons, he ended up resigning in 1949 and Rip Engle was hired prior to the 1950 season). Engle was coach from 1950-1965 and hired Paterno as an assistant (who QB'ed his highly ranked Brown team in 1949) directly after he was hired -- the rest is as they say, "history". Higgins, Engle and Paterno have all been inducted and given the distinction by the CFB Hall of Fame as "Hall of Fame Coaches", most do not realize this and it was a pretty unique run at PSU. In any event, Rip Engle who was a recognized "Hall of Fame" Coach to be at Brown and PSU (his all-time Major College Record was 132-68-8 and was 104-48-4 at PSU) was 9-6-1 against Pitt from 1950-1965 and 14 of the 16 games were played at Pitt - in fact, Engle was 8-5-1 in the 14 games played at Pitt! Engle was 3-1 in bowls in an era when very, very few teams went to bowls. The coach that ASWP dominated was Bob Higgins (1930 - 1948) - HIggins was 5-11 versus Pitt, but it should be pointed out that only 3 of the 16 games were played at PSU while 13 were played at Pitt (PSU was 2-1 in the 3 home games)
This notion that this "rivalry" not being played hurts either school is absurd. If we look at the years we've struggled over the past 15 years, it has nothing to do with not playing Pitt....and as I pointed out earlier in this thread, Pitt's best years since Marino have come with PSU not on the schedule. These are just plain facts.
Does the game mean more exposure? Consider our game with freaking Temple is on ESPN, so the answer to that question again is No. If exposure is the problem, Barbour and Pitt's AD should be calling Texas or the west coast for games, not each other.
In the playoff age, the only way not playing this game hurts either school is if the alternative is a non-P5 school and we end up before the playoff committee trying to get a birth in the final 4 or eventual final 8.
I think PSU's scheduling has stunk for several years and playing these regional OOC games against the former mid Atlantic rivals like Cuse, Pitt, Rutgers (since that was originally an OOC game before they joined the B1G) and WVU do nothing for us when you look at how the rest of the country's contenders (OSU in particular) are scheduling.
Don't disagree with many of your points - the advent of cable television and the broadcasting of a bazillion games has changed "exposure" and the ability of fans to see teams play....however, it has had an equally deleterious effect on teams ability to fill huge stadiums for marginal and outright bad games (e.g., it has had a very negative effect on gate revenues and demand for tickets to see the games live -- this is true for marginal post-season bowl games as well especially if fans have to travel huge distances....this is a big reason why PSU's Pinstripe Bowl Game appearance was such a smashing success for the Yankees - it was very easy and convenient for PSU fans to see it live.). In any event, CFB has clearly gone beyond the "saturation point" and has begun to dilute general fan interest especially for meaningless games which can just as easily be watched on TV.
However, a big part of the thread above is in regards to whether ASWP is a real "rivalry" with PSU -- to claim that ASWP is not a rival is equally asinine IMO. What "makes" a "rivalry" is shared history and proximity especially when both schools have historically gone after the same recruits and those recruits played HS football together with some going to one school and some going to the other school (this has historically been true for PA HS players in regards to PSU and ASWP - kids from the same HS often end up at both schools...one kid could have PSU connections, the other ASWP, etc...). The other thing that makes a "rivalry" is that the games are hard fought and competitive regardless of who is "supposed to win" in any given year. It is absurd to claim that PSU-ASWP is not a rivalry game -- I'm looking forward to PSU kicking the crap out of Pitt so I can watch all those losers cry in their milk again -- PSU destroyed so many ASWP Thanksgiving Holidays, it became like an annual Thanksgiving tradition!
Why not a pitt/Youngstown State rivalry? There are more similarities there that you seem to be searching for, Similar size home crowds, compete for many of the same recruits and are so very close geographically.
I have no problem calling Pitt a legitimate "rival"...certainly more so than Rutgers or Maryland. I grew up in Pittsburgh during the hay day of this rivalry but trying to relive those glory days in the here and now is just not realistic with the teams in separate conferences. For one thing, Pitt's upswing during the mid 70s and early 80s appears to be more the exception than the rule for their ability to be a part of the national discussion. They've been dreadful for 30 years in their significance to college football's biggest stages. PSU's dominance doesn't stop it from being a rivalry, but even when Michigan was beating up on John Cooper, OSU was still a perenial top 20 team so the game certainly had more appeal nationwide.
Regardless of rival status, I don't think that status equates to a need to schedule Pitt every year, especially with 9 conference games. GT/UGA and FSU/UF make this work but if the SEC ever goes to 9 conference games, it's safe to say those games will be in jeopardy of being played every year.
I said earlier I'd be fine playing Pitt 2 times every 10 years. Any more than that really limits the our ability to play to a wider national alumni base, which should be a goal for the largest alumni assoc in the world. For instance, we have played exactly 1 OOC game west of the Mississippi in the last 21 years (that being '03 @Nebraska..and only 2 more in the previous 10 years). That needs to change. While we've had OOC games with Bama, Miami and UVA in the past 20 years, playing more in the Southeast makes a lot more sense than 3 hours from State College as well.
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Good, then you agree that PSU should do what is best for it financially, which is not signing a long-term home-and-home contract with ASWP.
pitt, with their full compliment of scholarships, lost to Akron and choked in their bowl game against Houston last year. That's all you need to know about pitt football.
Your post is the second biggest reason why the Lions should NEVER play Pitt. Asking Penn State fans to subsidize their program because their fans won't buy tickets, is despicable. If they want to jack up prices for a game with Penn State, fine. But to ask people who actually want to go to the game to have to buy tickets to two other games is just not right. Screw Pitt.
Longtime Pitt fan & alum here w/ observation. In the 70s and 80s I don’t think there was a better rivalry game than Pitt/PSU. We haven’t played since 2000 and the younger fans do not understand this game and its importance of it in PA.
I am looking forward to the upcoming 4 games but since we are in the ACC and you are in the Big10, the game probably only happens 2 -4 times every 10 years unless something changes.
H2P
I am looking forward to the upcoming 4 games but since we are in the ACC and you are in the Big10, the game probably only happens 2 -4 times every 10 years unless something changes.
H2P
I'm over 50, and I don't. It is no longer relevant.
I find it humorous that on your board, you trash us unmercifully, spewing venom about coddling child molesters and gutter level insults about Joe crapping his pants and raging against the cult, and yet here you are, trying to convince us that playing against Pitt is so important. You would think, based on your cult postings, that we are not worthy of being mentioned in the same breath as Pitt.
You are right, though: to Pitt, this is an important game, because we are relevant, and you are not. Our games are on national TV every week, and yours are not. Recruits want to come here, and even some of your recruits don't want to go to Pitt, unless they have no other choice. So I see why you think it is important from your point of view.
To all of that, and to you and your brethren on the Lair, I say, bullshit. We owe you no favors, as you view us with feelings beneath contempt. You beg us for a yearly game, yet you despise us from the very cores of your miserable football existence. You hate us with a passion that is unknown to most mortal men and women, yet you would sell your very souls if only we would agree to playing you every year.
The more I think about it, the more I wish that the upcoming games get canceled. You are your ilk should stick to the Youngstown States of the world. Pitt needs us. We do not need Pitt. Just remember that .
Mods: Please note that 9championships' last post on the Lair refers to a PSU poster as a "pedo". Please ban him.
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For no one caring about Pitt why is the topics on here about have the most replies. 138 on this topic alone. If you go to pitt site same thing That is why this game should be played.
So because a handful of Pitt and PSU postsers have gone back and forth for 3 days this game needs to be played? I know emotion leads to a lot of statements here but logic will rule the day eventually.
The bottom line is that with 9 conference games there are only 3 OOC games. Of those 3 at least 2 need to be home games (Akron, Eastern Michigan type non return games). That leaves 1 game for a home/ away series. That's just the way it is now (pre renegotiation of the big ten TV contracts).
That means your choice is between always having an OOC schedule of Pitt, Akron, Eastern Michigan every year (as Pitt wants PSU to do) or rotate that Pitt slot to Alabama, VA Tech, Colorado, West Virginia, etc. That's the stark choice now and while some may pine for their younger years when Pitt was relevant- most Penn Staters are going to opt for tha variety rather than always Pitt.
Now, if finances significantly change after TV deals are renegotiated in a year or so then we can have the discussion of maybe 2 home/away series per year but right now it's just 1 game that has any flexibility.
Great set of responses, 00. As for finances changing, you can be sure that Barbour & Co have plans in place to spend every last cent of what the AD expects to take in from the renegotiated TV deals (heaven forbid they come in below what Delany is crowing about) and that those plans do not include two home-and-home series every year, otherwise Barnes wouldn't be begging for one.
[UOTE="NittPicker, post: 258018, member: 872"]My post wasn't a response to "rivalries". Our Pitt friend has changed the topic a couple times and my post was directed toward his claims that P5 schools located in the same state play each other annually. Period. I gave some examples of his erroneous thinking. It wasn't a red herring at all. Don't be confused when the Pitt guy keeps changing the subject.[/QUOTE]
I think his intent was clear but I respect your point of view. We are arguing over the merits of the two top college football teams playing in a state that has as much football tradition as any in the land. Hard to believe it can't be worked out. A great state like Pa. and teams that played for eons can't play each other except in spurts? The Pitt guy might be moving on the P5 statement but his main point still carries reason in its makeup.
I think his intent was clear but I respect your point of view. We are arguing over the merits of the two top college football teams playing in a state that has as much football tradition as any in the land. Hard to believe it can't be worked out. A great state like Pa. and teams that played for eons can't play each other except in spurts? The Pitt guy might be moving on the P5 statement but his main point still carries reason in its makeup.
If Pitt played in the Big Ten, they would never be bowl eligible. All those years in the Big Least and now a slight upgrade to the ACC.
Why did you pick a strange number if years by going back to 2000? 10 years would would have made more sense. But then you couldn't include our "dark years". We're not stupid.
Pitt has a losing record over the last 3 years. Pitt has a losing record over the last 30 years. There is no number of years you can go back that PSU has a losing record.
You really need to get out of Pittsburgh. I travel often, and I do ask. They mainly think PSU is a great school with great fans and tradition, and that JoePa was a great man/coach that got screwed over by the media. RARELY you run in to an ignorant "fan" who thinks like you do.
Never fails, one Pitt fans extends a thread needlessly for pages, struggling to pretend they are just a fan if PA football, another shows up and says "XXX replies, no rivalry here". Do you draw straws?
One quick visit to the Lair should provide enough evidence to any PSU fan with even a smidge of intellect and pride just why we should NEVER EVER play Pitt again on equal terms. Ever.
We should just step back and let them die on the vine. If we did that, in a few years they would be playing Westminster.
We should just step back and let them die on the vine. If we did that, in a few years they would be playing Westminster.
I picked 2000 because it's a round number and the last time Pitt and PSU played. Made sense to me. This is what the two teams have done since they last played. It's also around the start of the BCS - the actual modern era of college football. So, it was between 1998 (the true beginning of the BCS) and 2000 (the last time the two teams played). It wasn't some highly thought out plan to make PSU look bad. I know you guys think I'm up to no good or something, but I'm just trying to have a conversation without getting attacked every post.
Yeah, I don't see this thread an indication of the game needing to be played. It's mostly been you, a few other PSU posters here and there, and I. Then, some trolls in between.
I think the changing financials in the coming years, a potential shift in the landscape where P5 teams only play P5 teams, eight-team playoff, and the success of the upcoming four games will all lead to a long-term deal. Maybe I'm just hopeful though. My main concern is wanting a rivalry game on the schedule annually. It was more fun when Pitt played PSU, WVU, and/or ND every single year.
Ummm, let me see if I have this straight Mr. Know-Everything-About-CFB Oregon, Not A Pitt Fan....so the "modern era" of football started 15 years ago??? LMFAO, I don't think so nimrod - the term has a specific meaning and it has nothing to do with the BCS dork-boy. BTW genius, the seminal organization created by the "power conferences" that control NCAA D1 FCS Football, and the direct progenitor of the current "BCS Organization", was the "Bowl Coalition" which dates all the way back to 1992. The Bowl Coalition (1992-1994) became the Bowl Alliance (1995-1997) in 1995 when the Rose Bowl and it's conference affiliations was added to the Bowl Coalition structure. The Bowl Alliance renamed itself the BCS in 1998 when it created an algorithm - e.g., it's own ranking system - for placement of teams. The organization again changed its name when the "+1 Bowl System" was created for the 2014 Season - it's latest new-new name is now The BCS Playoff Committee despite the fact that the system being used is not, in fact, a playoff. But again, you are full of crap as per usual that anyone who knows anything about football would suggest that the "modern era" (which has to do with the rules, the size/shape of ball, use of the passing game in offensive strategy, etc..) began in 2000. LMFAO, you are the definition of the axiom about one's own bloviating proving what a moron they are...
During the period between 2000-2015, Penn State had it's worst 5 year stretch of football in Modern History(and it's not close) as well as being sanctioned for the last 3 years. In spite of the fact that Penn State absolutely sucked for 8 of the 15 years, Penn State was still able achieve 8 more wins than Pitt football during that span. That should tell you all you need to know about Pitt football and realize it's only going to get worse moving forward.
Pitt has finished the season ranked just 3 times in the last 25 years (never higher than 15th). That figure puts them on par with the great powerhouses of Colorado State, Hawaii, Marshall, Southern Mississippi.
People ask why this rivalry has lost its luster and Pitt nosediving from relevance in the mid-80s and never recovering has everything to do with that. No other in state rivalry featuring P5 schools has met with so much ineptitude on one side.
How can this go on for 150+ posts? Our athletic department are going to make scheduling decisions based on logic, not emotion It's going to be based on financial return. The support of 31 sports demand this. Now if the emotion of fans is such that it becomes a financial plus to schedule Pitt every year, that'll happen. So all of you fans who want to schedule Pitt every year, make sure you attend every home game with Pitt - fill the stadium 107,000+. Do not miss an opportunity to show that playing Pitt every year is a viable option.
However, unless you just like arguing, this thread is going nowhere.
However, unless you just like arguing, this thread is going nowhere.
That's actually the reasoning behind my first post in this thread. Is a home and home with Pitt more financially beneficial than PSU's current scheduling strategy? Or, along with the BTN and new TV deal, is it worth "losing" some money on the Pitt game to have a consistent rival and a guaranteed OOC sellout for PSU? I'm of the thinking that playing Pitt makes PSU more money than any OOC opponent other than the big-time games.
I'm of the mindset as a fan that more games that interest me are priority number one. Call it selfish, but I'd rather play PSU than a MAC school because it's a better game to watch, helps strength of schedule, better atmosphere (home and away), is a rivalry, better for recruiting, and more. I don't care about supporting the other sports at the school. You're not going to drop swimming because you only get six home games some years. I go to all Pitt home games, but I also would go to games at PSU or WVU to show those administrations that this rivalry game is valuable to them. I would try to spend money in State College or Morgantown to further prove that.
In the end, I think there are a lot of places in college football to make decisions for monetary reasons solely, but I like to think that a rivalry game is worth losing some money over.
Spot on - if ASWP were even marginally relevant on the national scene anymore, there would be a lot more interest in Pitt football and the calls for the game to be played would be louder. As it is, the only noise for the game to be played is coming from a handful of ASWP-based internet trolls...
With Barbour being a woman, Pitt must think she will cave easily to their demands.
Good point. If Pitt became a perennial ranked team who landed big time recruits, PSU would likely want to play them more. Pitt seems to think they can only be successful if they're attached to PSU in some way.
Good point. If Pitt became a perennial ranked team who landed big time recruits, PSU would likely want to play them more. Pitt seems to think they can only be successful if they're attached to PSU in some way.
Penn State and Pitt both have a lot of Alum in the media. I tend to think this drives some of the nostalgia for this game. I get the hatred each fan base has for one another. However, when you take emotion out of it...two things become clear. It would be impossible to make this a yearly scheduled game. It would sell tickets for both schools because of proximity and their mutual dislike of one another.
James Franklin. "It would be great for the state, great for college football," said Franklin to ESPN's Brett McMurphy when asked about playing an annual game against the Panthers. "I'm in favor of it"
Bill O'Brien. “I think it should be an annual rivalry,” O'Brien said. “I think it's about both schools wanting to do it and making it happen ... I have a tremendous amount of respect for (new Pitt head coach) Paul Chryst and their program, and that's a great rivalry."
Maybe it should be set up as a home and home every four years. That way every recruit gets one home and home away game against a rival. PSU could set it up so their away game at Pitt. comes in years they have 5 Big Ten games. I think PSU could afford one year every four with only six home games if the new TV deal gets the Big Ten what it thinks it will get.
