PSU national recruiting presence today vs 1980's-90's

[blion72]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

 

[jennjeffjoe]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

 

[psuro]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

Key words in your post: "It seems".

 

[jennjeffjoe]

This is a good question, and others with far more incite will chime in. I think the roster limitations, rise of the mid-level leagues, and more regional focus of prospective players all give rise to fewer national recruits, and more state/regional recruits. FWIW- PSU is on the rise!

 

[nits74]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

Only by those either lacking any historical perspective, having very short memories; or more likely having an anti-Paterno agenda.

 

[Raffycorn]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

In the 1980s and 1990s, we were annually a top team and program in college football. With the exception of 2005, 2008 and potentially 2009, we haven't been all that relevant nationally since the time. That matters when it comes to national recruiting, especially when it comes to pulling kids from the south when you have programs who ARE competing for national titles every year in their backyard.

 

[bdgan]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

There was a time when PA had more talent and Florida had less talent but that has changed. In order to compete nationally PSU will have to extend beyond the state of Pennsylvania. We're doing well in Maryland but have to do better in Ohio & NJ. It really hurts when Michigan and MSU get more top kids out of NJ than PSU. It also hurts when we can't get anybody from Ohio (hopefully we get Ferns).

Part of the challenge is that we must rebuild our reputation after the Sandusly mess. Some of these kids no longer see PSU as a top 10 caliber program. It's going to be a tough job but Franklin is getting paid well to get it done.

 

[blion72]

There was a time when PA had more talent and Florida had less talent but that has changed. In order to compete nationally PSU will have to extend beyond the state of Pennsylvania. We're doing well in Maryland but have to do better in Ohio & NJ. It really hurts when Michigan and MSU get more top kids out of NJ than PSU. It also hurts when we can't get anybody from Ohio (hopefully we get Ferns).

Part of the challenge is that we must rebuild our reputation after the Sandusly mess. Some of these kids no longer see PSU as a top 10 caliber program. It's going to be a tough job but Franklin is getting paid well to get it done.

it seems like if we got most of the top players in PA, NJ and Metro DC, we could at least be top 20 caliber every year. to make the jump to top 10 we are going to need to have a strong recruiting footprint in the SE/Florida. it seems that the last 5-6 years we have been so irrelevant, that HS players don't think of us as elite.

 

[JoeBatters1]

. ..... or is something else behind it?

Yes - winning or the lack thereof. PSU could recruit nationally in their prime because they were a national power and contended for national titles. If they get back to that again they will be able to pluck the occasional top prospect from outside their traditional recruiting area.

 

[Raffycorn]

I

it seems like if we got most of the top players in PA, NJ and Metro DC, we could at least be top 20 caliber every year. to make the jump to top 10 we are going to need to have a strong recruiting footprint in the SE/Florida. it seems that the last 5-6 years we have been so irrelevant, that HS players don't think of us as elite.

I mean, I'm not sure if you can blame kids for thinking we're not elite. If current recruits are 17 or 18, they would have seen us in the 2009 Rose Bowl when they were 10 or 11, and in the 2006 Orange Bowl when they were 7 or 8. For kids outside of our traditional recruiting areas, we just haven't been on the sport's biggest stages for their formative years, when their hometown programs (FSU, Florida, Alabama, Clemson, etc) have competed on that level for nearly the entire time that they've been watching football. In fact, I'd wager that if you asked most current recruits which program is more "elite" between Penn State and Michigan State, the majority of kids outside of our traditional recruiting area (and even likely a good number inside of it) would say Michigan State. In the 80s and 90s, that absolutely wouldn't have been the case and we were able to use our success to pull kids from down south similar to how Ohio State has done recently. But I'm not sure if current recruits care all too much that we were an elite program when their parents were in high school and before they were born.

 

[bdgan]

it seems like if we got most of the top players in PA, NJ and Metro DC, we could at least be top 20 caliber every year. to make the jump to top 10 we are going to need to have a strong recruiting footprint in the SE/Florida. it seems that the last 5-6 years we have been so irrelevant, that HS players don't think of us as elite.

We should already be top 20 the way we're going. We could be top 10 if we did better in NJ & Ohio. Florida would be a bonus.

Look at NJ this year. Michigan could get #1 Gary, #2 Walker, #5 Mitchell, #6 Haskins, and #9 Johnson. PSU will get #10 Fries and has an outside chance at #7 Fuller. NJ has to be our turf, not Michigan's turf.

I realize that most top Ohio kids are going to wind up at OSU but I think we should be able to land a couple each year. Last year we got zero. That really hurt because they had several 4* LBs and OSU was already loaded at that position. This year we got 1 kid from Ohio, #28 Gellerstat. Maybe we finally break through with #5 Ferns.

 

[Nitt1300]

between the Sandusky mess and-let's be honest- not as much recruiting effort in Joe's last few years, it's going to take a lot of work to recruit nationally

for now, getting it done regionally for the most part should be the main focus-I think Franklin has the right plan

 

[fairfaxlion2]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

We took a big step back after the early 2000s debacle, and never really recovered. In 1997 we had this supposedly amazing recruiting class, and they got here and we never did any better than getting to a Citrus Bowl. In fact in their senior year we did not even go to a bowl. To be honest, I don't think the program ever recovered from that. The 2016 class is the first one in a very long time that reminds me of how PSU was recruiting in the early to mid 1990s.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Some say we gotta get all the best I'm state....some say we gotta get the best nationally ...some say we gotta worry about UM and MSU ... Yet they always have from time to time come in and taken a few NJ or Pa kids and we have done the same from them...Freddie Scott ...Garret Taylor.....Robinson...Booker Moore...
Basically , all of the Some are FOS....The bogus sanctions knocked this great program back....the conference pussies out there, especially our own hated Joes sucess with honor....especially the presidents of Universities....psuedo academics that fashion themselves as some value to academics. Emmert saw a chance to knock down what Joe represented and the program that represented this looking together the forces....the bloated ballless forces of academic admin...who saw a witch hunt as a focus away from their emense and obvious failings. It failed....they have stadiums they can't fill...tuition is astronomical...bowl games with no one in the stands...doping ...academic...sexual sports related scandals every week... and the program these petty jealous ****ers tried to beat down won't die. All PSU has to do is find players that are PSU....it doesn't matter where they come from.... never has... never will. The criteria is simple...athletes that want to be more.
NJ..PA..NY....SC....CA....OH....McKeesport....Pconferencesentral Catholic....Allentown Allen...Halieah Lakes....Knoxville Tn....Reno Nv......So stop pointing everywhere but where it really is....our gutless BOT and the loathsome scum managing the major
conferences....and inept institutions wounded the Lion...but when at full strength with PSU men....not frontrunners....the flesh wound will be put in the rear view mirror of this program. Count on it.

 

[fairfaxlion2]

Some say we gotta get all the best I'm state....some say we gotta get the best nationally ...some say we gotta worry about UM and MSU ... Yet they always have from time to time come in and taken a few NJ or Pa kids and we have done the same from them...Freddie Scott ...Garret Taylor.....Robinson...Booker Moore...
Basically , all of the Some are FOS....The bogus sanctions knocked this great program back....the conference pussies out there, especially our own hated Joes sucess with honor....especially the presidents of Universities....psuedo academics that fashion themselves as some value to academics. Emmert saw a chance to knock down what Joe represented and the program that represented this looking together the forces....the bloated ballless forces of academic admin...who saw a witch hunt as a focus away from their emense and obvious failings. It failed....they have stadiums they can't fill...tuition is astronomical...bowl games with no one in the stands...doping ...academic...sexual sports related scandals every week... and the program these petty jealous ****ers tried to beat down won't die. All PSU has to do is find players that are PSU....it doesn't matter where they come from.... never has... never will. The criteria is simple...athletes that want to be more.
NJ..PA..NY....SC....CA....OH....McKeesport....Pconferencesentral Catholic....Allentown Allen...Halieah Lakes....Knoxville Tn....Reno Nv......So stop pointing everywhere but where it really is....our gutless BOT and the loathsome scum managing the major
conferences....and inept institutions wounded the Lion...but when at full strength with PSU men....not frontrunners....the flesh wound will be put in the rear view mirror of this program. Count on it.

Why do people keep saying that the sanctions knocked the program back? I mean, sure, they led to a few 7-5 seasons that might have been 8-4 or 9-3 instead, but is that really a gigantic setback? And were we really recruiting better than this before the sanctions? I don't think we were. we were having good seasons about once every four years. I know the sanctions were heavy but I honestly don't see the program as having been set back more than maybe two years. The biggest effect might that we don't start out the season ranked anymore.

I think for some reason people are looking back on the pre-sanctions program like it was some kind of utopia. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The last 15 years of Paterno were a minor disaster. I remember after the 2010 season, the boards were in an uproar that Paterno was not retiring. It was like he was just refusing to retire while the program was at risk of slipping back into 2000-04 territory. And even if Paterno did retire back then, there was basically this big question of whether Curley would do a true national search or just hire someone on staff already. For a number of reasons, we of course never saw that situation.

 

[Mudge1026]

There was a time when PA had more talent and Florida had less talent but that has changed. In order to compete nationally PSU will have to extend beyond the state of Pennsylvania. We're doing well in Maryland but have to do better in Ohio & NJ. It really hurts when Michigan and MSU get more top kids out of NJ than PSU. It also hurts when we can't get anybody from Ohio (hopefully we get Ferns).

Part of the challenge is that we must rebuild our reputation after the Sandusly mess. Some of these kids no longer see PSU as a top 10 caliber program. It's going to be a tough job but Franklin is getting paid well to get it done.

Penn State, historically has done well in Metro Pittsburgh, Metro Phila, DMV(Metro DC & Meto Balto), North Jersey and South Jersey. I dont know where you're getting your info but PSU's needs and NJ talent did not align this year. Now that we have an aggressive staff I expect North Jersey players to start signing in larger numbers. Overall we are not struggling in the Mid-Atlantic, we are still, reputation wise, the top dog here. Penn State needs to get back into Ohio where we had a historical presense (Paterno gave it away). This staff will cherry pick the Southeast just as we did in the 1980's and 1990's, Paterno again stopped trying, picked "low hanging fruit" closer to home.

 

[PSUEngineerx2]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

Here is some info on our recruiting history which might interest you.

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2015/1/20/7547165/recruiting-historical-the-sec-takes-off

 

[bdgan]

[QUOTE="Mudge1026, post: 1063926, member: I dont know where you're getting your info but PSU's needs and NJ talent did not align this year. [/QUOTE]

I think we could have found room for Gary & Lukusa. I know that WR isn't a position of need but there are a couple of NJ kids rated higher than Nixon and we're recruiting him.

 

[Mudge1026]

Here is some info on our recruiting history which might interest you.

http://www.blackshoediaries.com/2015/1/20/7547165/recruiting-historical-the-sec-takes-off

Excellent info, nice post!

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Why do people keep saying that the sanctions knocked the program back? I mean, sure, they led to a few 7-5 seasons that might have been 8-4 or 9-3 instead, but is that really a gigantic setback? And were we really recruiting better than this before the sanctions? I don't think we were. we were having good seasons about once every four years. I know the sanctions were heavy but I honestly don't see the program as having been set back more than maybe two years. The biggest effect might that we don't start out the season ranked anymore.

I think for some reason people are looking back on the pre-sanctions program like it was some kind of utopia. Nothing could be farther from the truth. The last 15 years of Paterno were a minor disaster. I remember after the 2010 season, the boards were in an uproar that Paterno was not retiring. It was like he was just refusing to retire while the program was at risk of slipping back into 2000-04 territory. And even if Paterno did retire back then, there was basically this big question of whether Curley would do a true national search or just hire someone on staff already. For a number of reasons, we of course never saw that situation.

Bad Choice of words. Joe was a figurehead and should have had a successor named even before the program slide in 2000-2004....or have been replaced. I never understood the "he earned" the right to stay nonsense. No one earns the right to damage a program they helped build even it they were primarily responsible for building to do his job was just another failure of the BOT. There is no reason the BOT could not have retired Joe or hired a replacement for him and given him the option to be an arms length spokesman for the programs off the field achievements or just University spokesman and retired him from HFC except the BOTs weakness. All this aside, and 2 11 wins seasons back to back as well, The intent of Emmert and the band of failures that he cobbled together with clear intent to punish the program fell flat on it's face. The last 4 years have not been as bad as people make them out to be nor as the hoard of excess baggage institutional overburden wanted it to be. The program needs to recruit great recruits that fit the programs goals and vision wherever those athletes may reside. I see no need, as some state here for some formula for recruiting some particular region of the county.

 

[dcf4psu]

Until 1992 the maximum number of scholarships allowed was 95. It then was made 85 where it still is today. That certainly had am impact on recruiting and recruiting strategy. Something I have said for many years that Paterno did not adjust well to - the record after the undefeated 94 team bears that out.

 

[bdgan]

Bad Choice of words. Joe was a figurehead and should have had a successor named even before the program slide in 2000-2004....or have been replaced. I never understood the "he earned" the right to stay nonsense. No one earns the right to damage a program they helped build even it they were primarily responsible for building to do his job was just another failure of the BOT. There is no reason the BOT could not have retired Joe or hired a replacement for him and given him the option to be an arms length spokesman for the programs off the field achievements or just University spokesman and retired him from HFC except the BOTs weakness. All this aside, and 2 11 wins seasons back to back as well, The intent of Emmert and the band of failures that he cobbled together with clear intent to punish the program fell flat on it's face. The last 4 years have not been as bad as people make them out to be nor as the hoard of excess baggage institutional overburden wanted it to be. The program needs to recruit great recruits that fit the programs goals and vision wherever those athletes may reside. I see no need, as some state here for some formula for recruiting some particular region of the county.

The BOT was certainly full of cowards. Many complain that Joe and the football program had too much power but in reality the only power Joe had what what they allowed him to have. They should have insisted on a succession plan. Hopefully with Joe's full support but it was going to happen with or without him.

Recruiting suffered when Joe got too old and no longer made in home visits but PSU still had some good recruiting classes and a pretty good record on the field:

2005: 11 wins
2006: 9 wins
2007: 9 wins
2008: 11 wins
2009: 11 wins
2010: 7 wins
2011: 9 wins

The NCAA failed to kill PSU football but they certainly inflicted a lot of damage. Our reputation as an elite program has evaporated and the rebuilding process will be difficult. PSU averaged 10 wins during the last 7 years under Joe and it's not going to be easy to get back to that point, especially playing in the same division as OSU, UM, and MSU. I disagree with your comment that PSU doesn't have to recruit strong in certain regions. We are not a national program like Notre Dame. It's very difficult to attract the top kids from Florida and Texas. We need to get it done in PA, MD, NJ, OH, & VA.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

[QUOTE="Mudge1026, post: 1063926, member: I dont know where you're getting your info but PSU's needs and NJ talent did not align this year.

I think we could have found room for Gary & Lukusa. I know that WR isn't a position of need but there are a couple of NJ kids rated higher than Nixon and we're recruiting him.[/QUOTE]

Didn't PSU pull two top WR's out of NJ last year? Nixon is a stud with offers from everyone regardless of where he is "ranked". Gary has no interest in PSU at all. It's not like the staff did not try there. One year trends are the best things to go off of online.

 

[AWS1022]

The BOT was certainly full of cowards. Many complain that Joe and the football program had too much power but in reality the only power Joe had what what they allowed him to have. They should have insisted on a succession plan. Hopefully with Joe's full support but it was going to happen with or without him.

Recruiting suffered when Joe got too old and no longer made in home visits but PSU still had some good recruiting classes and a pretty good record on the field:

2005: 11 wins
2006: 9 wins
2007: 9 wins
2008: 11 wins
2009: 11 wins
2010: 7 wins
2011: 9 wins

The NCAA failed to kill PSU football but they certainly inflicted a lot of damage. Our reputation as an elite program has evaporated and the rebuilding process will be difficult. PSU averaged 10 wins during the last 7 years under Joe and it's not going to be easy to get back to that point, especially playing in the same division as OSU, UM, and MSU. I disagree with your comment that PSU doesn't have to recruit strong in certain regions. We are not a national program like Notre Dame. It's very difficult to attract the top kids from Florida and Texas. We need to get it done in PA, MD, NJ, OH, & VA.

We were helped in those years by a down Big 10 as well. Combine that with a weak OOC schedule and we accumulated some wins. But I don't think we were up there with the top tier programs (other than 2005 where I think we were as good as anyone).

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

Until 1992 the maximum number of scholarships allowed was 95. It then was made 85 where it still is today. That certainly had am impact on recruiting and recruiting strategy. Something I have said for many years that Paterno did not adjust well to - the record after the undefeated 94 team bears that out.

Yet Joe still had 3 11 win seasons after the 3 terrible seasons. I honestly think losing his brother and decline in functionality due to age really hurt Joe....his health was in decline and poor for a long time.

 

[thk1414]

it seems like we were able to recruit the southeast including Florida along with west coast during the 1980's and early 90's very well. we used to get top players out of the Carolinas and Florida that were nationally recruited. we also frequently got prospects from the top 10 national recruits no matter the location (Courtney Brown, LaVar, Tim Johnson, etc). in 1990 we would be the top choice of a top rated DT from NJ. today we are not in the mix, even though it is a position of dire need = meaning likely a top recruit starts next year.

today we do not seem to be able to do this nearly as well, even though we have what is thought to be the best recruiting staff in school history. is this a product of being in the BIG, or is something else behind it?

I'm convinced we do have the best recruiting staff in the country, or certainly as good as any. The one missing, and critical, element is winning....and that will come as our roster is restocked. Sky is the limit after that.

 

[Raffycorn]

Yet Joe still had 3 11 win seasons after the 3 terrible seasons. I honestly think losing his brother and decline in functionality due to age really hurt Joe....his health was in decline and poor for a long time.

I think that's certainly a part of it - and as much as folks might not want to mention it, the program losing its 30-year defensive coordinator certainly led to a transition period/watershed moment for the program (even if our struggles in the dark years were more offensive than defensive).

 

[Art]

I think we could have found room for Gary & Lukusa. I know that WR isn't a position of need but there are a couple of NJ kids rated higher than Nixon and we're recruiting him.

Didn't PSU pull two top WR's out of NJ last year? Nixon is a stud with offers from everyone regardless of where he is "ranked". Gary has no interest in PSU at all. It's not like the staff did not try there. One year trends are the best things to go off of online.[/QUOTE]


True. Like it or not, there is a limit on the number of recruits PSU can take in any given year. Gary was a clear miss. Walker and Sanders are interchangeable and PSU wasn't taking two RBs this year. PSU also lost interest in Mitchell and the two Camden kids early and had none in Lukusa.

You'd like to think that the coaches put more thought into recruiting than simply having an objective to take the five or six highest ranked (by Rivals) kids in NJ.