This is partially why so many future events (like Arts Fest, Grange Fair) have been canceled. They aren't worried about covid spreading. They're worried about people not attending and for those that do, getting sued if someone gets infected and can reasonably tie it to being at that event.
PSU to decide on fall resumption on June 15
- Thread starter Nitwit
- Start date
This is partially why so many future events (like Arts Fest, Grange Fair) have been canceled. They aren't worried about covid spreading. They're worried about people not attending and for those that do, getting sued if someone gets infected and can reasonably tie it to being at that event.
Forget this nonsense regarding whether or not there will be sports in the Fall. Most important thing is the well being & safety of students and those that are also athletes. We have no idea whether this virus will abate over the remainder of the Summer or whether it will FLARE up in the Fall when children/young adults believe they are indestructible.
I'm not debating you about the health of people. Of coarse the health of people is important. No one wants to see people die. Republicans don't, Democrats don't ... no civil and humane person wants to see people die. But, as we are seeing the dominoes are beginning to fall for things opening. IMO, opening is inevitable. From what I've experienced in life, once the "conversation starts", then it's just a matter of time. Over the coarse of the last week we've seen more and more states opening or lifting bans, we've seen businesses begin to open or lift bans, and we've heard the conversation from sports leagues about resuming play. In the last 24 hours the owner of the Miami Dolphins declared there would be a season. Again, experience tells me that once "conversation starts", then the dominoes begin to fall. I believe now it's just a matter of figuring out "how" not "if".
Keep in mind the fact that only 4 per 100,000 have died in PA who are under 60. Under 60. More over 100 Years old have died than under 45.
there is no, none, nada, bupkis reason to discuss the “well being of students” with regard to this virus. It simply is NOT more dangerous than the flu or pneumonia for young people. It isn’t. Full stop. And it is literally (a word I actually know how to use) 50x less “dangerous” for that demographic than suicide/murder.
The only semi-legit argument with regard to college campuses is young people as “spreaders”. I got into a debate a few weeks ago about whether or not PSU students interact closely (within 6 feet) with anyone over 30. I said rarely, someone I am sure way smarter than me said often. My sophomore daughter agreed w me but what do I know? Not interested in that debate again....
but the data and science and facts say definitively that young people are absolutely not in danger. There is no data that says they are. Nowhere in US and nowhere globally.
there is no, none, nada, bupkis reason to discuss the “well being of students” with regard to this virus. It simply is NOT more dangerous than the flu or pneumonia for young people. It isn’t. Full stop. And it is literally (a word I actually know how to use) 50x less “dangerous” for that demographic than suicide/murder.
The only semi-legit argument with regard to college campuses is young people as “spreaders”. I got into a debate a few weeks ago about whether or not PSU students interact closely (within 6 feet) with anyone over 30. I said rarely, someone I am sure way smarter than me said often. My sophomore daughter agreed w me but what do I know? Not interested in that debate again....
but the data and science and facts say definitively that young people are absolutely not in danger. There is no data that says they are. Nowhere in US and nowhere globally.
you just read that? You reading periodicals from 2 months ago?
But what about all the elderly whom will become infected by these young people? Are you forgetting about their safety? Or don’t their parents and grandparents lives matter to you because they’re old. Happy Thanksgiving
Serious question....If the C-19 has about a 1% mortality (very very low) rate in anyone 70 or younger, and the risk factor really just increases among people 70 and older, then shouldn't we all be trying to figure out a way to isolate that "at risk" group and allowing the "other groups" to move on with their lives?? I'm not offering an answer. The answer would have to come from someone way smarter than me. I'm just thinking about what makes common sense logic to me. We have a virus that is now proving to have a very low mortality rate to younger age groups, yet we are keeping those groups in quarantine. Apparently masks are a key. Seems like many State Governors : PA, MI, NY, CA, IL.... are requiring masks to be worn. So obviously these governors have info & knowledge that masks are a key. Can we not just require (strongly ask) people 70 and greater to continue to wear masks? Can we give tax incentives and tax breaks to businesses who are willing to have special hours to accommodate the elderly? For example, tax breaks on payroll taxes to restaurants who are willing to open from 3pm-5pm only for elderly? Tax breaks and payroll tax exemptions for grocery stores, car dealers, retail stores... who are willing to open from say 6am-8am only for the elderly??? I know these things are not perfect, but it's "make the best of a bad situation". I do not want to see the elderly cut off from life and forced into assisted care facilities like they are dogs. That's horrible. But you'd think brighter minds could come up with feasible plans to protect the elderly and allow them to live, while also allowing the other 99% of us who are not "high risk" to move on.
That's why the elderly and at risk need to be protected.
Not sure if you are being sarcastic or not, but I mentioned that students being potentially carriers is the only reason to keep them off campus. I think it is dubious reason but not arguing the point - argues it two weeks ago and not going to convince anyone.
what I said (again apologies if you were being sarcastic) is that the health and welfare of the students themselves in not a reason to keep them off campus. I was very clear.
mans are you seriously implying that the solution to not infecting grams at Thanksgiving is to keep college students off campus? There isn’t an easier answer... like ... I don’t know ... keeping grama away? Is there a grama anywhere who would say “please
Don’t let my 20 year old granddaughter have a normal Fall because it will ruin my Thanksgiving dinner?
but if it is important to you to put words in my mouth and then argue against them, have at it
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aalion, question -- where and when did you get doctor of medicine? Seem to know more than my doctor who I just left about an hour ago.
How exactly are these elderly people getting infected by the young people being on campus? If it’s when the young people return home, then either a. Have the young people not come home for Thanksgiving or b. Have the elderly people stay at their own home for Thanksgiving. Doesn’t seem that difficult.
I sure as hell ain’t a doctor. But if you have stats and data that contradicts what I have said, please educate me. What have I said that is false? Does your doctor say that it is false that more people over 100 have died than under 45 in PA? Love to see the source. Does your doctor contradict that only 4 in 100k in PA under age of 60 have died? Is that false? Please provide facts... not headlines. I can.
Protecting those at risk without causing total chaos among those who are not makes way to much sense ....
God, I hate all this elderly isolation bullshit. Stay at home, go to the store at 6 in the morning, wear a mask if you stick your face out the door....eff it all. Let me live my life like everyone else. I know the risks. I will take my chances.
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Students need to know so they can decide if they want a dorm room or do online from home. International students need to make travel arrangements. Six weeks isn't a lot of time.
The only thing they can say on June 15 (or any other date) is "we intend to be on campus". PSU can always retract it at any point in time. There is nothing PSU can do about it if there is a "second wave", a massive lawsuit, a governor mandate, or whatever. Kinda like when they pulled the plug on the spring semester. They can always say no or reverse themselves and that is true of any organization, business, school, or whatever... all anyone can do now is head down the opening path. And reverse if they learn more.
They aren't making the call early. They are making the call so that they can properly prepare. This is not a rush to judgement or a hasty decision. June 15 is perfect.
Meanwhile, the SEC and certain other B1G teams will have 2-3 weeks of additional practice. Is that perfect?
It's not like I know "hundreds" of elderly people, but the elderly people I know would fall into 2 categories on this: 1. They'd be saying that the young people need to move on with their lives and the young people need to "live", and 2. They'd say they do not want to spend their final years being forced into some sort of assisted living or isolation living in homes.
God, I hate all this elderly isolation bullshit. Stay at home, go to the store at 6 in the morning, wear a mask if you stick your face out the door....eff it all. Let me live my life like everyone else. I know the risks. I will take my chances.
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My suggestion was to give the elderly access to things that minimize impact to the rest of us... do you go to grocery stores at 6am?? Down here in ATL our grocery stores do not even open till 7am. So asking grocery stores to have a special "elderly hour" from 6am-7am would not effect anyone else. a) we would not be going at 6am anyhow, and b) they were not even open at 6am so they are not taking anything away from me.
Do you and your family really do diner from 3pm-5pm??? How many times have you gone out to eat at 4:45?
Yes. I 100% agree. If an elderly person wants to "take thier chances", then by all means they can. They can go sit in Beaver Stadium with 107k in September, they can go to concerts, they can go to grocery stores, restaurants... any time they like........ All I was suggesting was to give them access to special hours/restricted hours to help isolate them IF they do NOT want to take a chance.
If I'm at Beaver Stadium in September and an 80-year old guy sits down next to me.... then good for him. Would not bother me one bit. It's his choice.
Just saying to give them special options.
So- the bottom line is that we don't know and that we won't know until we do know, if we know then.
Why not herd people with comorbidities into groups like you want to do with the elderly? Seems that combidity is a bigger problem than age. Elderly are often more apt to have comorbidities, but not all fall into that bracket. Some elderly are healthier than people a lot younger than them. Smacks of age bias.
obviously you have not looked at any data with a statement that is so ill informed. 80% of the deaths in PA are from nursing homes and a large majority of the deaths in the USA are people over 65 years old. it is a medical fact that after the age of about 70 years old the body's own immune system starts to decrease in efficiency. and yeah, this disease also seems to be much high fatality for those with hypertension/high blood pressure and the extremely obese, so a wake up call for that bunch to get their diet and exercise regime straight to get in much better health.
The politically incorrect corona virus targetting the old and pre-existing condition people should be ashamed of itself. We should stick the PC police on that corona virus to make it stop doing that as that is just mean.
You said this....."shouldn't we all be trying to figure out a way to isolate that "at risk" group and allowing the "other groups" to move on with their lives??" and this "Can we not just require (strongly ask) people 70 and greater to continue to wear masks?"
There are other suggestions I have read or heard, even more draconian, to effectively sequester those over 65 from the rest of society and let everyone else get back to normal. I have no doubt there are some governors in this country that would do that in a heartbeat if they could get away with it. Fckem all. Options are one thing, but compulsory controls for those over 65 is another and that is where we are headed. That said, I am headed to work. I'm a 60/60. Over age 60 and work over 60 hours a week. My choice. Let me keep it that way.
Cletus: You paint with a very wide brush. Only 5 percent of the elderly population are in nursing homes. You can't extrapolate the nursing home data to that of all elderly.
I have looked at the data and the overwhelming amount of deaths come from people with comorbidity.
I have looked at the data and the overwhelming amount of deaths come from people with comorbidity.
And a tremendous percentage of Americans have some type of prexisting condition, some more minor than others. Where would you draw the line with that?
CG: I wouldn't draw the line. I think we can all make adult decisions on what we want our exposure to be. I don't think we need to categorize anyone, since not everyone in a demographic are identical. Too much variability to make blanket statements.
agreed. an a person making the decision to "isolate" doesn't mean that they do a bubble boy imitation. It means that they take extra precautions others aren't. Don't work, go out only when you have to, visit with people that you trust have taken similar precautions.....
This isn't rocket surgery.
Judging by this poster's history of being spot on with things, I'd say the chances of students on campus being 100%.
https://bwi.forums.rivals.com/threads/‘the-people’-to-the-rescue.266855/
I guess I understand the liability part, but who is liable if a student gets regular flu and dies? Who is liable if a student goes crazy and does something?
What you may see out of this is the rise of the community college. They will stay open, they will play ball, they will see this as the ability to take an edge on the bigger, more expensive 4 years.
I know 3 very well. All in State College nursing homes. All want their grandchildren to have a normal Fall and would be appalled if they were the reason they could not.
My parents are both passed away. My Dad 3 years ago, and my Mom now over a year. I can only think of the way they'd handle this. They passed away at 77 & 75 respectively. I know they would have said "bull crap" on being isolated like "bubble people". They would not have done anything stupid, or put anyone in risk, but they definitely would have wanted to go about their lives (while being careful) and they would have wanted their children and their grand-children to live their lives. Like you said, they would have been appalled if they were painted as the reason why their oldest grand-daughter could not have a Senior Prom or a HS graduation, or their youngest grand-child could not participate in sports. They would have been 100% against those actions.
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