That's OK if the person makes the decision. Unfortunately, the trend is toward forced isolation for older Americans.
PSU to decide on fall resumption on June 15
- Thread starter Nitwit
- Start date
What student would possibly want to stay at home for another semester?
what is your point? this virus is most deadly the more co-morbidity and older that you are. that is a fact looking at the data. coronavirus doesn't have a brain and making conscious discriminatory decision to effect certain people more than others.
I hope you aren’t calling into question Penn State’s leadership. barren’s got this.
I cant speak for everyone, but from those who are above 65 that I have talked to (including my relatives) its at least a 75/25 split in agreement with you. Its not even part based in that, its mostly D that are in the 75% who want everything open.
Things have to begin to open up. It’s a matter of finding the right balance and making options available for the elderly and those with comorbid conditions so they can take part to reduce risk, if they so choose.
The most recent data from Pennsylvania (focusing on student ages)-
Positive cases per age range-
Age
0-4: Less than 1%
5-12: Less than 1%
13-18: 2%
19-24: 6%
Roughly 9% of cases are under age 25. 91% of cases are older (53% over age 50).
In terms of significantly sick individuals- roughly 2% of hospitalizations were those who were under age 25. (82% were over age 50).
Graph of total Pennsylvania deaths over time-
As of 5/22/20 (most recent data on PA website- updated weekly)-
Between 4-20 people under age 25 have died. (I hate that the state refuses to give real numbers but just says “under 5” for some categories).
At the most, 25 people under age 30 have died from corona (range 10-25).
PA population 12.8 million (IIRC).
Total corona deaths- 4,984.
Age
0-4: Less than 5
5-9: Less than 5
10-14: Less than 5
15-19: Less than 5
20-24: Less than 5
25-29: 5
30-34: 8
35-39: 7
40-44: 22
45-49: 53
50-54: 90
55-59: 164
60-64: 279
65-69: 383
70-74: 491
75-79: 570
80-84: 712
85-89: 886
90-94: 837
95-99: 396
100-104: 71
105-109: 6
https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/disease/coronavirus/Pages/Cases.aspx
The most recent data from Pennsylvania (focusing on student ages)-
Positive cases per age range-
Age
0-4: Less than 1%
5-12: Less than 1%
13-18: 2%
19-24: 6%
Roughly 9% of cases are under age 25. 91% of cases are older (53% over age 50).
In terms of significantly sick individuals- roughly 2% of hospitalizations were those who were under age 25. (82% were over age 50).
Graph of total Pennsylvania deaths over time-
As of 5/22/20 (most recent data on PA website- updated weekly)-
Between 4-20 people under age 25 have died. (I hate that the state refuses to give real numbers but just says “under 5” for some categories).
At the most, 25 people under age 30 have died from corona (range 10-25).
PA population 12.8 million (IIRC).
Total corona deaths- 4,984.
Age
0-4: Less than 5
5-9: Less than 5
10-14: Less than 5
15-19: Less than 5
20-24: Less than 5
25-29: 5
30-34: 8
35-39: 7
40-44: 22
45-49: 53
50-54: 90
55-59: 164
60-64: 279
65-69: 383
70-74: 491
75-79: 570
80-84: 712
85-89: 886
90-94: 837
95-99: 396
100-104: 71
105-109: 6
https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/disease/coronavirus/Pages/Cases.aspx
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I thought I posted these stats in the thread yesterday but can’t find them. Thanks for recovering my fumble.Things have to begin to open up. It’s a matter of finding the right balance and making options available for the elderly and those with comorbid conditions so they can take part to reduce risk, if they so choose.
The most recent data from Pennsylvania (focusing on student ages)-
Positive cases (tested positive) per age range-
Age
0-4: Less than 1%
5-12: Less than 1%
13-18: 2%
19-24: 6%
Roughly 9% of cases are age 25 or younger. 91% of cases are older (53% over age 50).
In terms of significantly sick individuals- roughly 2% of hospitalizations were those who were under age 25. (82% were over age 50).
Graph of total Pennsylvania deaths over time-
As of 5/22/20 (most recent data on PA website- updated weekly)-
Between 4-20 people under age 25 have died. (I hate that the state refuses to give real numbers but just says “under 5” for some categories). At the most, 25 people under age 30 have died from corona (range 10-25).
Total corona deaths- 5,984.
Age
0-4: Less than 5
5-9: Less than 5
10-14: Less than 5
15-19: Less than 5
20-24: Less than 5
25-29: 5
30-34: 8
35-39: 7
40-44: 22
45-49: 53
50-54: 90
55-59: 164
60-64: 279
65-69: 383
70-74: 491
75-79: 570
80-84: 712
85-89: 886
90-94: 837
95-99: 396
100-104: 71
105-109: 6
https://www.health.pa.gov/topics/disease/coronavirus/Pages/Cases.aspx
We hear a lot of emotion and generalizations in discussing the issue at times (especially with a press concerned about ratings and clicks). Sometimes that skews how we evaluate events. Thought giving the raw numbers would add some perspective to the issues being discussed.
Agree 100%. Very surprised how many people don’t know the stats. I got into a battle w a sports jock in Philly w 100k listeners and followers who had no clue that 2/3rds of PAs deaths are I. Nursing homes. Yet he thought he was able to lecture on COVID safety and opening and risks and ....
This issue is too important, to be way wrong on Either side, to shoot your mouth off without knowing what you are talking about. We know infinitely more today about the virus, impacts, who is at risk, what is safe or not, then we did 2 months ago. Lessons from all over the country and the world if you take 5 minutes to look. Too few do - which is fine if you keep your opinions to yourself. Otherwise, ....
Its one of the many disturbing issues that have surfaced during this crisis.... inaccurate or very old data if you can even find it. For weeks I tried to find any information on the age range of deaths and could find nothing more recent than March and most of it was from overseas! There was nothing on the CDC site and many other reputable sites. I felt like it was very pertinent information but also felt like the experts either didn't know or didn't want it to be known.
Just my opinion ... But asking for opinions on these types of subjects is kind of pointless. You'll inevitably get responses from only the most "vocal" towards a side, and you'll get the biased opinion from whichever side a person is on. For example, you'll get 50% voicing strong opinion to open, and 50% voicing strong opinion to remain closed. Each side will be blindly opinionated.
Sometimes you have to "be the parent" and just make a decision. I think the school just needs to make a decision, live with it, and say this is what it is, and if you do not agree we 100% respect your choice to not agree, but this is what we are doing.
Would you tailgate and enter the stadium this fall if permitted? Moms too?
I think you would be surprised at how many young people are paralyzed with fear about COVID. You cannot reason with these people, and they won't do anything until the government tells them things are "safe".
I fear for their future.
Friends of my kids fall into this category. They have no clue about the real "risk" to themselves, don't understand how the virus spreads (or doesn't), and have no idea that most of the US and all of Europe are way more open than PA, with no spikes or issues observed. My kids are getting lectured by their friends about how unsafe it is for us to take a vacation. It is despicable.
question wasn't to me but I will answer. I am more concerned about the massive hassle factor to get in and around the stadium than I am about getting sick or spreading the virus 3 months from now. But I will be there one way or another I am sure.
Issue for me will be 90 year old Mom. She will want to go to the games (at least some of them) but is probably smart enough to know she should stay out. Because she lives in a nursing home I think that would be the reason that would convince her to stay away out of concern for her community. But I know part of her wants to live her life to the fullest w what time she has left...
I haven't head anyone calling for "forced isolation" for older Americans. They are calling for a process to be available for those older Americans who want to isolate. Nobody is calling for internment camps for the elderly.
I have seen many suggestions for elderly isolation. If I have some time later today I will find you articles that say as much. Agreed, no one is proposing internment camps, but they do suggest forced isolation at home. As noted in this line from a recent article....
Those arguing for a more rapid lifting of coronavirus restrictions have a refrain that goes something along the lines of: "Isolate the elderly and more vulnerable populations, and let everybody else go on with their lives."
This from an article 2 months ago:
“The UK media have been buzzing this weekend with rumours about a government plan to require people over the age of 70 to self-isolate for a period of at least four months as part of their response to the Covid-19 pandemic. "
To be clear, I am specifically talking about forced isolation of elderly in their own homes or nursing homes. I am not saying it will happen but it is being discussed. Of course, it would only be done as a protective measure...for their own safety.
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Quality of life is extremely important. I'm for those at risk/elderly to have the choice to do whatever they want and maybe push hard for special accommodations to be put in place/continue beyond the the covid pandemic to ensure their safety in the future. The early hours at the grocery store or other places is a great idea not just for now but for the future. Not sure how that can be incorporated into a stadium setting but perhaps early entry or a designated entry as a choice where a crowd could be limited. I'm not a fan of more rules for people but more options to help people feel more comfortable is what I hope to see moving forward. I hope your mom gets to whichever game she wants. She deserves to be able to enjoy it.
I have seen many suggestions for elderly isolation. If I have some time later today I will find you articles that say as much. Agreed, no one is proposing internment camps, but they do suggest forced isolation at home. As noted in this line from a recent article....
Those arguing for a more rapid lifting of coronavirus restrictions have a refrain that goes something along the lines of: "Isolate the elderly and more vulnerable populations, and let everybody else go on with their lives."
This from an article 2 months ago:
“The UK media have been buzzing this weekend with rumours about a government plan to require people over the age of 70 to self-isolate for a period of at least four months as part of their response to the Covid-19 pandemic. "
To be clear, I am specifically talking about forced isolation of elderly in their own homes or nursing homes. I am not saying it will happen but it is being discussed. Of course, it would only be done as a protective measure...for their own safety.
so what is your solution? Continued 'red' type stay at home for everybody until a vaccine is fully in place?
No. Just the opposite. Go Green. Very limited restrictions. People know the risks. They know how to protect themselves and others. Open the country up.
In Lancaster Co. PA, pop. around 500k, 3,051 confirmed cases, and IIRC one death under age 25. It was a young adult with a myriad of problems. 286 deaths total. A very strong % above age 80.
Have a good friend's husband in a nursing home in Harrisburg. I think it's Spring Valley. He has a neuromuscular and cognitive degenerative ds. He was tested because he just came back from the hospital. He tested as a asymptomatic positive. The confirmed positives there was something like 140, and 30 staff. This was about 2 weeks ago. Surprisingly, haven't heard a peep about a large number of deaths. Such an unpredictable course observed in many instances.
The info IS on the CDC site, you want demographics here you go...…………….
https://data.cdc.gov/NCHS/Provisional-COVID-19-Death-Counts-by-Sex-Age-and-S/9bhg-hcku
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The young people I have spoken with are very worried, not for themselves, but for passing on the infection should they get it, to their parents, grandparents, or other elderly relatives. What happens when they all get together at Thanksgiving for example, or the child goes home for a weekend visit during the semester? Can you imagine how difficult it would be if a student caused a parent to die from COVID-19? We know the elderly can isolate themselves until a vaccine is available but can the students isolate themselves from their parents?
It's not just that. The population is State College is not only students. There are faculty, people who work in the dining halls, maintenance staff, et al. Off campus, there are people in bars, stores, markets, etc.
Oh, did I overlook University administrators? Okay, forget all of that! Full Green Light and hit the gas!!
This is true .... but again you need to look at the stats. Even under 60 the flu is as dangerous as COVID. Parents are probably under 60. Families should make their own choices. But locking down our youth indefinitely for a virus that is extremely dangerous to those over 80 but not more dangerous than flu or pneumonia for people under 60 is dubious. No other country globally is going through these debates. Only in US.
Isn't this essentially what Sweden did and they have the highest death rate per capita in the world?
My father in law is 81 and he comes to visit his 3 grandkids everyday and could care less as to whether he gets it. He was in the military and worked in corrections for years and had to take numerous risks. He told my wife and I politely that he is not going to hide away from his grandkids. He would never blame anyone.
Because here everyone with a high school equivalency fancies themselves an expert on anything and everything. I was just at Giant for our once a week shopping and this family of idiots blew by the sign saying masks are required, past the high school kid who asked them to put a face covering on and then walked around the store making faces at literally everyone else who was wearing masks. Other countries don’t need to be told not to be effing morons.
Spain, UK, Italy, Belgium, Netherlands, France all have higher deaths per capita, off the top of my head.
No. Stop reading panic porn headlines and look at the stats yourself
This is true ... which is why sports hooliganism is a uniquely US thing.
And not that I don’t follow the rules in the stores, and there is no downside so people should, but the New England Journal of medicine on April 1 published an article that basically said the masks are useless in stores or other casual interactions...
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The Barron has rendered his opinion that PSU is planning for a return to campus in July..... nothing official until Mid June but that is how they are proceeding. Fall term a go but will probably finish remotely after Thanksgiving....
Sweden is ahead of the Netherlands in terms of deaths per capita. But you are correct with regard to the other countries in your post.
That about sums it up. The mask shaming is simply unfounded except for close and extended contact situations.
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