Rasheed
- Thread starter YoungGunsWC
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Well established by internet experts that Cael can't coach. Of course, March results establish quite clearly that he not only can coach, but that he (and Cody, Casey, etal) not only can coach but are the best in the US.
I've asked several refs that officiated in Caver Hawkeye while Gable was the coach. Each of them pretty much said the same thing -- they quickly tuned out Gable, and were oblivious to whatever he was saying. I've never reffed college, but that's pretty much my experience in all other levels. Unless the wrestlers are on the edge, right next to where the coach is, I'm rarely even aware of anything a coach says during a match. And even in those situations, there's not a thing a coach could say that would have any impact on my calls. (The only exception is if they cross the line, and say something inappropriate, and then they are either going to get a quick lecture, or a team point deducted, or dismissed from the match.) It's probably hard to believe, but most refs are so focused on the two wrestlers that they rarely if ever hear the coaches, and are completely unaware of the fans during a match. So the issue isn't what I believe, it's what you believe.
I have not talked with the ref or the AR that reffed that match about the situation, so I can't speak to what they saw, what influenced them, etc. On a broader scale, defensive pins are not nearly as cut and dry as many fans seem to think. Refs are not usually looking for them. In addition, the guidance that was provided to refs at that time (it's since been changed at the college level, but remains at lower levels) was to not worry about a possible defensive pin until the wrestler in that position exhibits concern about their position.
as I said earlier, believe what you want. I'm trying to help you, as well as others reading the thread, by providing actual experience, the guidances provided, as well as summaries of discussions I've had with a lot of college refs. There are some refs that never admit a mistake, but I'm not aware of any such refs among the top college refs. Those that move up the chain, so to speak, get there on a combination of talent, thousands of matches, a lot of critical analysis by replaying in their mind every controversial call and many non-controversial calls they've been involved in, and the ability to take constructive criticism from other refs. Those refs that get influenced by coaches, the fans, or the environment do not move into the ranks of top college refs.
Reffed when much younger. Also have studied psychological behavior.
I got a phone call wanting to know if I could cover a contract for a district 10 AA match and I truly had no idea who most of the kids were. In normal circumstances that is not the case. Anybody who says they are not aware of who the competitors are and even if so that awareness has no impact is not being honest with themselves.
The simple act of consciously working to remain impartial has an impact.
Of course there is the fact that sometimes a ref simply does not make a call because he did not see it. I ask Milford Pittman once why he did not call the pin and he told me, "ah man, the move was a change of direction and happened so damn quick I did not get there in time to see it."
Gable did not just influence Carver Hawkeye Arena calls. At nationals in close matches Gable would start calling for a stall call and thousands of Hawk fans would reinforce the demand for the call and everybody sitting in the arena knew as assuredly as the clinic researcher knew to expect the dog to salivate at the sound of a bell the stall call was coming quickly.
To make a statement that while officiating, officials can suspend human psychological tendencies is a bit silly.
I got a phone call wanting to know if I could cover a contract for a district 10 AA match and I truly had no idea who most of the kids were. In normal circumstances that is not the case. Anybody who says they are not aware of who the competitors are and even if so that awareness has no impact is not being honest with themselves.
The simple act of consciously working to remain impartial has an impact.
Of course there is the fact that sometimes a ref simply does not make a call because he did not see it. I ask Milford Pittman once why he did not call the pin and he told me, "ah man, the move was a change of direction and happened so damn quick I did not get there in time to see it."
Gable did not just influence Carver Hawkeye Arena calls. At nationals in close matches Gable would start calling for a stall call and thousands of Hawk fans would reinforce the demand for the call and everybody sitting in the arena knew as assuredly as the clinic researcher knew to expect the dog to salivate at the sound of a bell the stall call was coming quickly.
To make a statement that while officiating, officials can suspend human psychological tendencies is a bit silly.
Gable had no influence ... this may be the most comical post ive ever read on here .... with that Im done with the topic. I appreciate the back and forth
Dave Witvoet was absolutely not influenced by the fact that he grew up a Michigan fan when reffing Michigan football games, especially if there was anything on the line.
The man, like all refs, was above reproach
The man, like all refs, was above reproach
To be fair, what was being discussed was whether officials could be influenced by the situations or contestants of a competition. Generally speaking I was thinking subconscious influences.
Witvoet just flat out is a lying, cheating SOB who was not influence by subconscious responses. He was always very conscious of his actions and proceeded without any apparent qualms of the impacts of what he was doing.
Have always been a fan of Rasheed's and was wondering whether he would ever be able to emerge from behind all of the studs between 165 - 197. Glad he is getting his chance to show what he can do and hopefully he can stay healthy. It's a great thing we have three top notch 197lb'ers as they are all injury prone. This sage is probably not over yet.
Many time the wrestler needs to cut because there is a time factor as well. If you cert with your weight too high, you might not have enough weeks available to make your desired weight by a certain date. When you can only drop 1 1/2% per week, time is a factor
Asking refs if they are always impartial is like asking lawyers if they are always on the side of justice.
I'll go with what I observe, not what they say
Thanks. I have to say it has only been since Cael was hired that I began following PS wrestling..... Before that only football where i definitely just looked for news and not discussion. Please note most of my 33 posts have been in the last year or so and all in the wrestling room since it's my favorite sport. I'm really picking up the pace.
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Back in topic. We all can agree that refs are the worst and a necessary evil that we are grateful for.
1. Rasheed's comments are exactly why we all love the team so much and recruits might be willing to come for "much less". Rasheed just had the tournament of his life and was worried about cutch and talking about the team. "comeon Its penn state" said it all.
2. Nolfs interview was even better. He basically called the year a disappointment because he didn't pin everyone and was a beautiful cyborg answering the other questions.
To get THE definitive answer maybe we should get Mike C. to ask about it?
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