Sandusky/CSS/Penn State - unknown info

[didier]

Thought I'd start a thread approaching this well-worn subject from a different angle. Rather than rehashing and debating what information is known about the whole subject I thought I'd start a list of specific information that has not been made available. Again, this is information we know the OAG has in their possession but the rest of us have not seen.

For instance, with the 1998 incident we have not yet seen the following:

1. Second sting operation pages in the police report. NBC's release was missing those. I've contacted them to see if they would release them. They said they would barring any legal/law enforcement issues. That was a year and a half ago.

2. Handwritten note given to PSU officer Schreffler by V6s mother following the sting

3. Missing pages from Schreffler and John Miller's (CYS) interview with victim 6.

4. Audio tape from above interview.

5.) 25 page interview of second victim BK by Schreffler and Miller

5. Missing pages from counselor John Seasock's report (not clear if those were ever available)

6.) Letter attached to Seasock's report

7.) Childline intake report

8.) DPW report of Suspected Abuse

9.) Grand Jury testimony of ADA Karen Arnold regarding why Ray Gricar didn't bring charges

10.) Grand Jury testimony from PSU Investigator Wayne Weaver

11.) Grand Jury testimony from CYS Director Terry Watson and caseworker John Miller

12.) Grand Jury testimony from Genovese and Raykovitz regarding whether they were informed of the 1998 incident.

13.) Hardcopy of email written May 27, 1998 between Harmon and Schultz regarding CYS Director speaking with Ray Gricar

For 2001, the released discovery list (which was taken down a couple hours later) mentioned 17 pages of emails from February 12, 2001 to June 5, 2001. Blehar has mentioned we are missing a communication between Schultz and Harmon regarding why he wanted the 1998 incident on Feb 12.

For Second Mile we know that the box of records titled 'S' went missing. Whether it was ever recovered has never been stated. In addition, the full GJ testimony from Genovese and Raykovitz regarding their knowledge.

Obviously as it stands we are missing a lot of information on this case. In fact, I think we have far less information available than was made public. OAG usually withholds some of their case until trial, of course, but this seems to be far more than usual. We know the above exists...it's not speculation. But will we ever see it?

 

[Osprey Lion]

Thought I'd start a thread approaching this well-worn subject from a different angle. Rather than rehashing and debating what information is known about the whole subject I thought I'd start a list of specific information that has not been made available. Again, this is information we know the OAG has in their possession but the rest of us have not seen.

For instance, with the 1998 incident we have not yet seen the following:

1. Second sting operation pages in the police report. NBC's release was missing those. I've contacted them to see if they would release them. They said they would barring any legal/law enforcement issues. That was a year and a half ago.

2. Handwritten note given to PSU officer Schreffler by V6s mother following the sting

3. Missing pages from Schreffler and John Miller's (CYS) interview with victim 6.

4. Audio tape from above interview.

5.) 25 page interview of second victim BK by Schreffler and Miller

5. Missing pages from counselor John Seasock's report (not clear if those were ever available)

6.) Letter attached to Seasock's report

7.) Childline intake report

8.) DPW report of Suspected Abuse

9.) Grand Jury testimony of ADA Karen Arnold regarding why Ray Gricar didn't bring charges

10.) Grand Jury testimony from PSU Investigator Wayne Weaver

11.) Grand Jury testimony from CYS Director Terry Watson and caseworker John Miller

12.) Grand Jury testimony from Genovese and Raykovitz regarding whether they were informed of the 1998 incident.

13.) Hardcopy of email written May 27, 1998 between Harmon and Schultz regarding CYS Director speaking with Ray Gricar

For 2001, the released discovery list (which was taken down a couple hours later) mentioned 17 pages of emails from February 12, 2001 to June 5, 2001. Blehar has mentioned we are missing a communication between Schultz and Harmon regarding why he wanted the 1998 incident on Feb 12.

For Second Mile we know that the box of records titled 'S' went missing. Whether it was ever recovered has never been stated. In addition, the full GJ testimony from Genovese and Raykovitz regarding their knowledge.

Obviously as it stands we are missing a lot of information on this case. In fact, I think we have far less information available than was made public. OAG usually withholds some of their case until trial, of course, but this seems to be far more than usual. We know the above exists...it's not speculation. But will we ever see it?

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

 

[didier]

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

This was more in relation to CSS/Penn State than Sandusky's case proper. I should change the title.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

Seriously... You did not understand this thread was about way more than Sandusky?

 

[marshall23]

In the absence of the referenced material and mindful that records were shredded with impunity at TSM......"it is reasonable to assume" that while Sandusky may rightfully be imprisoned, DPW,CYS, The Commonwealth OAG, Centre County AG and LE all failed to protect children and TSM intentionally put them at risk. Yet none of the people employed by or directing these agencies have been held accountable. I can't help but wonder why?

 

[bjf1991]

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

Thanks

Now EVERYONE knows just how much weight to give to your opinions


Thankfully, since that is "THE END" for you.....we will no longer be privileged with access to your masterbatory ejaculations on the more significant aspects of this situation


Ciao

 

[BUFFALO LION]

This was more in relation to CSS/Penn State than Sandusky's case proper. I should change the title.

Every time I read that crap my head wants to explode. You make outstanding points. The stuff that is being hid is what convinces me this is nothing more than a CorButt hatchet job on Spanier's and Penn State.

The fact that they are protecting creeps like Raykovitz and Genovese who had a REAL connection to this situation, and going after ONLY Parties that reported it TO THEM, along with keeping Arnold hushed up, convinces me more than ever that either Sandusky is no more guilty than you or me, or CorButt is hiding a Child Prostitution ring of Galactic proportions.

If I was a betting man, I would guess that my first theory, that Sandusky was nothing more than an innocent pawn used to destroy Spanier and Penn State, would be the correct theory. Because if it was my second theory, a Child Prostitution ring, I can't believe the Feds wouldn't have exposed it by now.

 

[BUFFALO LION]

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

The end???? Thanks for your input Mr. Raykovitz, you piece of low life garbage.

 

[MtNittany]

I think the pa oag did a little more than "failing to protect kids". That's a subjective, broad moniker.

They rigged an entire prosecution - from beginning to end - at every possible opportunity. And the judge played right along. That should scare the hell out of anyone living up there.

 

[Art]

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

Fits conveniently up your ass where all of your intellectual activity takes place.

 

[Stufftodo]

Every time I read that crap my head wants to explode. You make outstanding points. The stuff that is being hid is what convinces me this is nothing more than a CorButt hatchet job on Spanier's and Penn State.

The fact that they are protecting creeps like Raykovitz and Genovese who had a REAL connection to this situation, and going after ONLY Parties that reported it TO THEM, along with keeping Arnold hushed up, convinces me more than ever that either Sandusky is no more guilty than you or me, or CorButt is hiding a Child Prostitution ring of Galactic proportions.

If I was a betting man, I would guess that my first theory, that Sandusky was nothing more than an innocent pawn used to destroy Spanier and Penn State, would be the correct theory. Because if it was my second theory, a Child Prostitution ring, I can't believe the Feds wouldn't have exposed it by now.

Corbett is long gone, so the cover up wouldn't be by him.

1998, which only tangentially involves Paterno (at least to date), is exceptionally odd. Just how the DA's Office handled the case raises numerous red flags.

1. Arnold was removed, even though she was designated as the abuse prosecutor in the office.

2. No one from the DA's Office interviewed Victim 6 (though they possibly interviewed the second victim).

3. Gricar made his decision before Schreffler interviewed Sandusky. Even with Schreffler's second request Gricar still said no.

Then we have that meeting involving Gricar, Schreffler, Ralston, ADA Sloane, and Fran Ganter at the "football building" on October 13, 1998; it was about an investigation. Sloane was reported to have been involved in the case in 1998.

Ad then some strange things happened after the Freeh report was released.

1. In 9/12, Sloane was charged with getting marijuana (and some pills) from an friend in CA. He denied it at the time, but faced 7 years and $10 K fine.

2. 11/12, Spanier indicted, Curley and Schultz were re-indicted. The presentment is released and it goes into great detail about 1998; there were not charged with committing any crime in 1998.

3. 2/13, Ganter resigns as AAD and gives 24 hours notice. He cancels a previously scheduled interview with the Altoona Mirror. Despite being employed by PSU for 40+ years, there is absolutely no send off.

4. 8/13, Sloane pleads guilty, changing his position. He gets 7 years probation and a $200 (Two Hundred Dollar) fine.

Very strange.

 

[Nittany Ziggy]

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

Congratulations! Not everyone can be as comfortable in their own skin with such a "broad" world view....

 

[MtNittany]

Congratulations! Not everyone can be as comfortable in their own skin with such a "broad" world view....

Is that one of Shubin's memory "enhancement" devices?

 

[WDLion]

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

Seig Heil!

 

[ThePennsyOracle]

It's really sad that one of the first things one does on a Sunday morning is head to BWI to make yet another post about a convicted pedophile.

 

[sluggo72]

It's really sad that one of the first things one does on a Sunday morning is head to BWI to make yet another post about a convicted pedophile.

Problem is this post wasn't about JS quilt or not it's about Sneaky Pete saying they view JVP the same as Bill Cosby

 

[roswelllion]

I have all the information I need. Sandusky was judged to be guilty and is in jail.
Case closed. The end.

Osprey,
Get back to your marches.

 

[psuro]

Seriously... You did not understand this thread was about way more than Sandusky?

Did you really expect him to?

 

[Crusher1950]

Everything is tied into the Ray Gricar missing saga. He knew what was coming down and someone took care of him

 

[didier]

It's really sad that one of the first things one does on a Sunday morning is head to BWI to make yet another post about a convicted pedophile.

My title was misleading (and I don't know how to edit it). My OP has little to do with Sandusky himself but the whole situation....and to illustrate how much info the OAG has and how little of that we've actually seen. I wanted to start a list of items to check back on in the future...hopefully the courts will make them available either in trial or to the media.

 

[interrobang]

We still don't know what MM told P/C/S/S what he saw. We only know what he thinks he saw and what message he thought he got across to C/S/S. We don't know what he actually told them

 

[Stufftodo]

Everything is tied into the Ray Gricar missing saga. He knew what was coming down and someone took care of him

There, so far, has been no record of contact between Gricar specifically or the Centre County District Attorney's Office relating to 2001. Sandusky didn't "come down" until six years after he vanished.

One other point to ponder, there is no paperwork from the 1998 incident in the DA's Office. That may be unusual or not, but it is clear Gricar was not keeping a file on Sandusky. If he had, there would be paperwork.

Interrobang, it is clear that since Courtney was called and plan was to call DPW, that the message was loud and clear.

 

[The Spin Meister]

My title was misleading (and I don't know how to edit it). My OP has little to do with Sandusky himself but the whole situation....and to illustrate how much info the OAG has and how little of that we've actually seen. I wanted to start a list of items to check back on in the future...hopefully the courts will make them available either in trial or to the media.

---
To edit the title, look just below the header and you will see a small wrench. (onlyt he author of each thread can see this) Place the cursor over it and a drop down menu will show. Click on 'edit title' Then you can edit the title and click on 'save edit'

 

[Nellie R]

Corbett is long gone, so the cover up wouldn't be by him.

1998, which only tangentially involves Paterno (at least to date), is exceptionally odd. Just how the DA's Office handled the case raises numerous red flags.

1. Arnold was removed, even though she was designated as the abuse prosecutor in the office.

2. No one from the DA's Office interviewed Victim 6 (though they possibly interviewed the second victim).

3. Gricar made his decision before Schreffler interviewed Sandusky. Even with Schreffler's second request Gricar still said no.

Then we have that meeting involving Gricar, Schreffler, Ralston, ADA Sloane, and Fran Ganter at the "football building" on October 13, 1998; it was about an investigation. Sloane was reported to have been involved in the case in 1998.

Ad then some strange things happened after the Freeh report was released.

1. In 9/12, Sloane was charged with getting marijuana (and some pills) from an friend in CA. He denied it at the time, but faced 7 years and $10 K fine.

2. 11/12, Spanier indicted, Curley and Schultz were re-indicted. The presentment is released and it goes into great detail about 1998; there were not charged with committing any crime in 1998.

3. 2/13, Ganter resigns as AAD and gives 24 hours notice. He cancels a previously scheduled interview with the Altoona Mirror. Despite being employed by PSU for 40+ years, there is absolutely no send off.

4. 8/13, Sloane pleads guilty, changing his position. He gets 7 years probation and a $200 (Two Hundred Dollar) fine.

Very strange.

There is no "mystery" or correlation about #1 and #4 in your second list. It was about "an investigation". Another investigation. There can be more than 1 investigation going on at a time. Check into how Sassano, a narcotics agent, may have come to be involved with the Sandusky investigation.

 

[Nellie R]

There, so far, has been no record of contact between Gricar specifically or the Centre County District Attorney's Office relating to 2001. Sandusky didn't "come down" until six years after he vanished.

One other point to ponder, there is no paperwork from the 1998 incident in the DA's Office. That may be unusual or not, but it is clear Gricar was not keeping a file on Sandusky. If he had, there would be paperwork.

Interrobang, it is clear that since Courtney was called and plan was to call DPW, that the message was loud and clear.

Files don't have to be on paper. They can be on destroyed hard drives. So no, it's not clear.

Why do you think Kane required Fina to surrender his?

It is not clear that the call to Courtney was anything more or less than asking what the protocol was to report suspicious behavior.

 

[Stufftodo]

Nellie, the Chambers Report was faxed to the DA's Office, It wasn't online. Further, the DA got his laptop in 2003-04.

It is clear that:

A. Paterno informed Curley and /or Schultz.

B. There was obviously a child abuse report, or the would not have called in Courtney.

Nellie, we do not know what the "investigation" was about. It is unusual because these were the same people involved in the 1998 Sandusky investigate from May and June. It could be a coincidence or might not be. Considering Schreffler and Ralston are from different departments, it is unusual and raises some red flags.

 

[Nellie R]

Nellie, the Chambers Report was faxed to the DA's Office, It wasn't online. Further, the DA got his laptop in 2003-04.

It is clear that:

A. Paterno informed Curley and /or Schultz.

B. There was obviously a child abuse report, or the would not have called in Courtney.

Nellie, we do not know what the "investigation" was about. It is unusual because these were the same people involved in the 1998 Sandusky investigate from May and June. It could be a coincidence or might not be. Considering Schreffler and Ralston are from different departments, it is unusual and raises some red flags.

Who said anything about "online"?

B. No it is not obvious. There is clearly a plausible alternative theory, which fits with expert assessments on how people in a POC-PCSO predator case simply do not recognize what a grooming incident is. And in this case that included several child pros that we heretofore assumed are trained to be able to detect this.

 

[kevina001]

Two things I want clarification on:

1. Is there an audio recording of Joe's grand jury testimony? Specifically, the part where he testifies, "I don't know what you'd call it. It was of a sexual nature". Knowing how Joe spoke, I am making an educated guess that he didn't say that. My guess is that he asked the question out loud to himself, like he would commonly do, i.e. "I don't know what you'd call it. Was it of a sexual nature?" with a shoulder shrug. I definitely could be wrong, but I'd love to hear the recording. That would obviously change a lot.

2. I want Allan Myers to testify about what happened the night McQueary came into the Lasch Building. Myers obviously has his money, and supposedly was abused by Sandusky. But I want him on the record, under oath, about whether he was abused THAT NIGHT. If not, (which is what he's said multiple times to multiple people) the whole thing is bunk.

 

[Legion of Lions]

Two things I want clarification on:

1. Is there an audio recording of Joe's grand jury testimony? Specifically, the part where he testifies, "I don't know what you'd call it. It was of a sexual nature". Knowing how Joe spoke, I am making an educated guess that he didn't say that. My guess is that he asked the question out loud to himself, like he would commonly do, i.e. "I don't know what you'd call it. Was it of a sexual nature?" with a shoulder shrug. I definitely could be wrong, but I'd love to hear the recording. That would obviously change a lot.

2. I want Allan Myers to testify about what happened the night McQueary came into the Lasch Building. Myers obviously has his money, and supposedly was abused by Sandusky. But I want him on the record, under oath, about whether he was abused THAT NIGHT. If not, (which is what he's said multiple times to multiple people) the whole thing is bunk.

ANSWER TO Question #2 - On the night of the shower incident - the one that MM reported and the one the OAG reported as "anal rape" - the under oath response from the "victim" was "...nothing happened..."

Seems like game - set - match to me! This is why the reactions in 2001 to MM's 2001 conversations with ANYONE did not raise the red flag that was engineered into the post 2010 era. MM's testimony changed - why??? Try OAG misconduct...it makes the most sense and it is CONSISTENT with the certifiable attempts made with other "victims" and witnesses.

Next...You will NOT find an audio record of JVP testimony for the same reason that you will not find TSM operational and financial records...they were all destroyed or "conveniently" lost.

REMEMBER....You can not support a lie with facts and therefore you need to destroy anything that documents facts if you want to maintain a lie.

I submit you are looking at an ENGINEERED LIE with anything the OAG did in this situation.

 

[Stufftodo]

2. I want Allan Myers to testify about what happened the night McQueary came into the Lasch Building. Myers obviously has his money, and supposedly was abused by Sandusky. But I want him on the record, under oath, about whether he was abused THAT NIGHT. If not, (which is what he's said multiple times to multiple people) the whole thing is bunk.

Based on his statement to Amendola's investigator, he was not the person McQueary saw that night. He might have been molested at some other point, but he has the wrong year and he stated that he did not see McQueary.

Sluggo72, he said that he was absolutely sure of the date, not that it was either 2001 or 2002, like McQueary did. Now, Myers might have been in the shower with Sandusky in 2002, heard a locker door slam, and no sex occurred. That is possible, but that is not the victim from 2001.

 

[sluggo72]

Based on his statement to Amendola's investigator, he was not the person McQueary saw that night. He might have been molested at some other point, but he has the wrong year and he stated that he did not see McQueary.

relative to the date, why is he held to a higher standard than everyone else? Because you see me, does not mean I saw you.

 

[Stufftodo]

Who said anything about "online"?

B. No it is not obvious. There is clearly a plausible alternative theory, which fits with expert assessments on how people in a POC-PCSO predator case simply do not recognize what a grooming incident is. And in this case that included several child pros that we heretofore assumed are trained to be able to detect this.

I should say, in a digital format. The things were not sent digitally. There was no digital record either,

Notice I said a report of child abuse. Courtney was called for that. This further was not a report of "grooming" but sex with a small boy.

 

[didier]

Based on his statement to Amendola's investigator, he was not the person McQueary saw that night. He might have been molested at some other point, but he has the wrong year and he stated that he did not see McQueary.

Sluggo72, he said that he was absolutely sure of the date, not that it was either 2001 or 2002, like McQueary did. Now, Myers might have been in the shower with Sandusky in 2002, heard a locker door slam, and no sex occurred. That is possible, but that is not the victim from 2001.

Should note that another incident was witnessed by a janitor Brian Huffman around the same time as Mcquearys. It's possible Myers was the boy in that case since he thought someone saw them.

 

[Legion of Lions]

Based on his statement to Amendola's investigator, he was not the person McQueary saw that night. He might have been molested at some other point, but he has the wrong year and he stated that he did not see McQueary.

Where do you get this stuff??? Then....Who was it in the shower if in 2001 MM did not feel that it was a situation where he needed to get a "victim's" name?

Is this more of the ...."...known but to God..." OAG convenience??

Provide the statements supported by factual references.

 

[Stufftodo]

Where do you get this stuff??? Then....Who was it in the shower if in 2001 MM did not feel that it was a situation where he needed to get a "victim's" name?

Is this more of the ...."...known but to God..." OAG convenience??

Provide the statements supported by factual references.

I got this from "Framing Paterno."

http://www.framingpaterno.com/sites/default/files/Interview_Vic_2_Redacted.pdf

He said, "The date was March 1, 2002, I am very positive." and "I never saw McQueary look into the shower that night. I am sure." I would encourage you to read the full interview.

Now, in 2002, Myers may have been in the shower with Sandusky, and there was no molestation. He may have heard a wooden locker door close. He was not the victim McQueary saw in 2001.

 

[kevina001]

Now, in 2002, Myers may have been in the shower with Sandusky, and there was no molestation. He may have heard a wooden locker door close. He was not the victim McQueary saw in 2001.

This is incorrect. When Jerry was contacted by Penn St in regard to the McQueary incident, Jerry told Myers that he might be contacted about the incident. Myers corroborated this.

 

[Stufftodo]

This is incorrect. When Jerry was contacted by Penn St in regard to the McQueary incident, Jerry told Myers that he might be contacted about the incident. Myers corroborated this.

As I said, Myers may have been in the shower in 2002; I don't doubt him. Somebody else could have been there closing the wooden locker door. Sandusky could have told him to expect a call. That still was not Victim 2.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Oh...back to the Meyers is or isn't the victim stuff. Good news for sure here as both sides are pretty close to agreeing here.

 

[kevina001]

As I said, Myers may have been in the shower in 2002; I don't doubt him. Somebody else could have been there closing the wooden locker door. Sandusky could have told him to expect a call. That still was not Victim 2.

So your take is that Victim 2 is NOT the person who says he is Victim 2, not the person who Jerry says is Victim 2, not the person that Joe Amendola says is Victim 2, and not the person who received a payout for being Victim 2. Instead, Victim 2 is a person "known only to God" who has never come forward in spite of an incredible financial incentive to do so. Sounds like a reasonable take....

 

[LundyPSU]

I should say, in a digital format. The things were not sent digitally. There was no digital record either,

Notice I said a report of child abuse. Courtney was called for that. This further was not a report of "grooming" but sex with a small boy.

What was Courtney's testimony in the recent MM v. PSU trial?