Yep...agreed. I think he was a creepy guy who was far to handsy and intimate with the kids. Did he actually fondle and/or penetrate? No evidence of that.
Sandusky prison interview article
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The way for Joe to get his reputation back is for Penn State to publicly apologize to the family.
If you think that will do anything other than cause an massive wave of public backlash and drag PSU's name through the mud all over again you are deluding yourself.
PSU has to come clean to restore its reputation too!
The media is mostly a bunch of pathetic, amoral scumbags. Who cares wtf they think, write, or report? Public apology from PSU would at least tell the world that his university is not ashamed of him. What they did to Joe and his family 13 years ago was f’ng disgraceful.
Apologizing to and honoring JVP is the right thing to do…backlash be damned!
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Yes he is guilty not innocent. Too many people speaking up to simply say they are all lying and conspiring against him.
This Sandusky is a lowlife. I am a big supporter of Penn State and to see what this jacka## did to run this great university through the mud is reprehensible. The Penn State Board of Trustees were cowardly buffoons from their complete lack of a backbone to defend the university to their complete weasel acts in how they treated Joe Paterno.
I am so saddened in how Joe's name and reputation were stepped on and dragged through the mud, permanently ruined or at a minimum significantly damaged. Sandusky is to blame and then the way the idiot journalists gleefully jumped on the bandwagon was a disgrace. The BOT did nothing but rudely and cowardly fire a great man who deserved so much better. Joe even said it although he had too much class to lambast them. He said something like "I'm out with a phone call". Translation....these gutless cowards were not man enough to look me in the eye and fire me so they hide behind a phone call. 61 years of loyal, exemplary leadership and service to the university and they pull this chickensh## bullsh##.
If Jerry gets a new trial it will be another chance for the trustees to blame the alumni. That should go over really big.
No matter what comes out, good or bad, I'll never forget that ridiculous remark by McCombie. I haven't looked for it in awhile but it's apparently been scrubbed from the internet.
He said there was plenty of blame to go around, including the alumni. I went ballistic. Doesn't matter much now, but how a bigwig at PSU could go out and blame the alumni for something like this is so ridiculous it defies common sense. I'm 100% sure most of them still feel the same way. The superheroes of PSU. Have fun going broke.
No matter what comes out, good or bad, I'll never forget that ridiculous remark by McCombie. I haven't looked for it in awhile but it's apparently been scrubbed from the internet.
He said there was plenty of blame to go around, including the alumni. I went ballistic. Doesn't matter much now, but how a bigwig at PSU could go out and blame the alumni for something like this is so ridiculous it defies common sense. I'm 100% sure most of them still feel the same way. The superheroes of PSU. Have fun going broke.
It was a railroad job and rush to judgment. Since when do trials like this happen so quickly? Clearly higher ups were connected like the BOT, TSM, Pa politicians, etc… no matter how you feel he deserves a fair trial. He didn’t get it.
Sandusky was not railroaded. The grand jury sat for well over two years investigating 15 years worth of reported incidents to include the testimony of both victims and witnesses. The trial took place eight months after the grand jury released its report. The timeline is below.
But you can't make people see what they have a huge emotional investment in not seeing:
Perhaps PSUs BOT at the time needs it's name run through the mud and deserves it due to gross negligence and lazy indifference to their responsibilities. Many got hurt by their pathetic sheep like leaderless response to adversity. They handed their responsibilities over to others that were salivating predators of PSUs reputation. These predators were pleased as hell for the chance to pounce on the bandwagon in a groundswell of prejudgment.
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What do you say about at GJ presentment that was intentionally leaked which included intentional and deliberate lies about the McQuery situation? That lit the powder keg and doomed any chance of a fair trial. I think you are the one not seeing what is clearly in front of their eyes.
The BoT did nothing to establish credibility of so called victims. It was a negotiation to see who would or wouldn't be paid and how much.
Their woody for Joe and Spanier was successful.
Their woody for Joe and Spanier was successful.
You make it sound like there were many incidents to investigate. There was:
- The Aaron Fisher claim, which was deemed way too shaky to go forward with.
- The Victim 6 shower incident, where no act of sex abuse was ever alleged, even to this day.
- The McQueary episode.
Investigators convinced McQueary that Jerry was a pedo which completely made him reinterpret what he saw. We know he didn't see anything sexual, based on his report to his dad and Dranov, his report to Joe, and his email to the AG saying they exaggerated his account in the Grand Jury presentment.
Once they had McQueary, they went on a manhunt for accusers. No one came forward. It was investigators coming for former Second Mile kids practically begging them to say something inappropriate happened with Jerry. A few saw the writing on the wall, and took the bait.
There are also plenty of rumors the veracity of his testimony was coerced. The lack of cross-examination was ludicrous and mystifying.
I think a perfect summation of the insanity of the situation was Matt Sandusky. He at first was adamantly supporting his dad. Then once the PSU BOT started dangling $$$$ in front of anyone with a pulse that had any loose association with TSM (an insane approach to take) regardless of how absurd their claims were, Matt suddenly did a hard 180. The same pattern happened for numerous other alleged victims.
At least five men who separately told the grand jury of inappropriate conduct, some of which included sexual encounters, with Sandusky while they were minors ranging from 7-13 years of age.
This was testimony to the grand jury at a time when these men had nothing to gain and no reason to fabricate such a claim. Five separate people independently concocting the same fantastic lie? Please.
In addition to the victims themselves, other witnesses who provided evidence: McQueary; two different janitors at Lasch; a high school wrestling coach; a high school principal; and two mothers who reported Sandusky's behavior with their children to authorities.
These are the ones that leap to mind. There are probably others I'm leaving out.
All of these people separately described behavior that ranged from suspicious to inappropriate to criminal.
I intend no disrespect to any of you guys, but as I see it, the only way a rational person can dismiss or explain away such a large web of evidence and testimony is if he has a huge emotional investment, for whatever reason, in believing that Jerry Sandusky is innocent.
Look, I was once a big fan of the man. He was arguably the best defensive coordinator in the game for a period of time. His Fiesta Bowl game plan to beat Miami and win Joe his 2nd national championship ranks as an all-time masterpiece.
Therefore, I was very distressed when it turned out he is a troubled man whose disordered sexual compulsions led not only to his own self-destruction but also to the disaster visited on the Penn State football program and its legendary coach.
Yet it is what it is. Sometimes reality sucks. But denying reality doesn't change it.
I believe the word of Jerry Sandusky, Dottie Sandusky, Graham Spanier, Tim Curley, and Gary Schultz more than I believe the word of Aaron Fisher, Sebastian Paden, Brett Houtz, Ryan Rittmeyer, and Michael Kajak.
Yo
You are dead on. There is no way this is all one big conspiracy against Sandusky. Too many charges and as you say independent of one another. I think people just want to believe that he is innocent because he says he is then it is easy to blame all the victims using the excuse of doing it for money. People forget that this was heavily investigated for years. It comes out in 2011 from incidents in the late 90's and early 2000's. Years of investigating to build the case. Sandusky is in denial and he is guilty. Let him rot in prison for what he did to children .
How many of those claims were made before PSU said they had an open checkbook (and would hardly scrutinize the claims) and how many were made after? That's an important thing to consider. It doesn't have to be a huge conspiracy to get all kinds of false claims organized etc. when PSU was handing out checks like candy. Of course all kinds of people would come out of the woodwork on their own accord once that happened and it unfortunately muddied the waters significantly.
IMO the most damning case against JS with the most contemporaneous evidence was the 1998 shower incident (victim 8 I think). However the state CPS investigated it in 1998 and said it was no big deal b/c they didn't even revoke his clearance to work with kids (which has a very low threshold compared to criminal charges -> beyond a reasonable doubt)!! Then 10+ years later a conflicted and corrupt AG says 1998 was criminal behavior even though the state's own child care experts at the time said it wasn't...hmmmm...somethings not adding up here.
None of the other cases including Mike's claims (which no one documented including Mike) had anywhere near the same amount of evidence as 1998.
Exactly.
In a mountain of evidence and multiple accusatory accounts, you can always isolate a discrepancy or some facts to rationalize.
But the key is the pattern...what they call the preponderance of evidence...all the dots and how they connect.
In cases of serial sexual predation, it's not the claims of any one person that make the crucial difference but rather the sheer number of victims who independently come forward and the evidence, either direct or circumstantial, supporting their stories.
I called Sandusky a scumbag. But it's more complicated than that. He was a man in the grip of a disordered sexual compulsion.
Sex is like dynamite. Some people are willing to risk blowing up their lives...and the lives of others...for the sake of it. And when the need is disordered, there is an increased willingness to take reckless risks to satisfy it.
In the end, this is what destroyed Sandusky and caused so much damage not only to his victims but also to otherwise good people caught in the blast radius of his crimes.
Jerry, Jerry, Jerry.
Did you ever read the accounts each alledged abuse gave before and after $$$ were involved?
How do you defend Matt Sandusky?
Media - so true and well said. Penn St - will continue to alienate those who have studied the issue until the truth comes out and they apologize and clear Joe's name. They are lying!
And I don"t believe any of the BOT - Suhey, Clemens, Lupert, etc. No investigation of the Second Mile - disappeared.
propers of evidence clearly show Sandusky’s innocence. It’s laughable to conclude his guilty if you look at all the evidence hilarious that people still actually think he’s guilty
Yes and no. First what is creepy and what is illegal are two different things. Second, those grand jury witnesses had lawyers who told them a conviction would lead to a civil suit and money. Third, the janitor never testified. He has dementia. A friend of his recounted the janitors story. In a mystifying ruling, the judge deemed this to not be hear say in what was the strangest ruling of the trial and the one that made me realize the fix was in. There was no way to cross or defend and could easily have been creepy but not illegal.
Let's not forget that the original witness, who was not permitted to testify, was asked point blank if the person he saw was Sandusky and he said "no".
Well the grand juries - which usually indict asap after the prosecutors ask - declined to do so many times. The recruiting machine was Alabama like though and enough men who had denied abuse changed their story and ultimately there was an indictment.
And the the trial was fast tracked - not sure they track stuff like this but I suspect it may have been the quickest indictment to trial ever with such type of charges.
And by the way if anyone is watching the Karen read trial - there isn’t a doubt in my mind Sandusky would be found not guilty with a defense team and resources like she had and sufficient time to prepare.
Is Sandusky guilty or innocent? I don't know; was not in court to hear the testimony, but I am absolutely convinced that the trial was a shame. Prosecutor later reprimanded for improper actions and a inadequate Defense Attorney, and a Judge -- Oh well. And a jury that I believe wanted to get home for the holiday.
Obli, you're straining very hard not to see the elephant in the room.
I mean, seriously, do you maintain that five separate lawyers plotted with five separate victims years before Sandusky was actually indicted to give false testimony to a grand jury in the expectation of a big-time payday down the road? Is there any evidence to back up that claim?
Then again, such an assertion is in keeping with the tortured rationale for dismissing McQueary's damning account, repeated at trial, of what he saw and heard that night in 2001. Did Mike fabricate a story he could use to ruin his own life? Do you think he wanted any part of that horrible experience?
I won't even get into the independent statements of all the others I listed in my above post.
At any rate, all this and more is why my opinion...shared by a unanimous jury and the overwhelming majority of neutral observers...and supported by a large volume of evidence and testimony on the part of an array of separate witnesses and victims...is that Sandusky is guilty as sin of not only creepy but also criminal behavior. He's where he belongs right now. And he's going to stay there.
I mean, for God's sakes, if you guys want to pick a hill to die on, make it Joe...not Jerry. In terms of a headlong rush to judgment, Joe's the guy who was arguably railroaded.
Somehow, however, I don't think either one of us is going to convince the other in this matter.
Yes. Absolutely. If you know lawyers you know this to be true. Ask anyone who has had a contested divorce. It is common for the two opposing lawyers to wink and nod to inflame the parties to get emotional anger instead of common sense agreement in order to get more billable hours
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Yes there is.
Go read/listen to the initial and final storiea of each claimant that Zeigler released in his podcasts.
And. Can you still defend Matt Sandusky.
He is the epitome of every claimant
Also weren’t multiple victims represented by the same ambulance chasing lawyer? If so there was no need for 10 different lawyers to all be in on some big conspiracy. Again when an entity with deep pockets like PSU starts handing out checks with barely any scrutiny there doesn’t need to be a big conspiracy for multiple people to come fwd with bullshit stories.
New York State chief judge Sol Wachtler famously said a grand jury would indict a ham sandwich.
Now add that Eschbach LIED in the Grand Jury Presentment about what McQueary told her. For the life of me I don't know why she wasn't disbarred.
The rotten BoT simply went after Joe and Spanier out pure revenge and political motivation. The illegal consent decree was horse crap.
TSM was closed tighter than a bulls ass in record time. LE allowed shredder trucks to conduct their misdeeds in destroying evidence.
The scurrilous BoT acted to protect friends and family at TSM. TSM had a clause in their bylaws whereupon members would not be exonerated for misdeeds and would be personally responsible.
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