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Seems that many fans here are having trouble adapting to PSU post JoePa

Rip_E_2_Joe_PA

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Jun 9, 2002
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Under Joe the tenure of the PSU staff was always the subject of sports writers. Many of us old timers can sit and rattle off all the OC, DC all the coaches on the staff from when Joe started till the time he left and do it quickly. That WAS stability but also in many ways WAS complacency.

Today, coaches moving upward and onward from a program is a sign of the success of the program not the opposite. Rattle off the teams that have occupied the top 10 frequently the past couple decades and assistant coaches in those programs move upwardly and onward in great frequency.

Those we call the chicken little crowd here have not yet adapted to the new PSU and probably long for the security of the old PSU ways. I, for one, do not. For the program to be vital and dynamic coaches must come and go and for that to happen in a way that enhances the program a master CEO is required to manage the organization. We have one of those.... a very good one and a very young one.... and it is exciting and not frightening or troubling to many of us.... I hope it is that way for all PSU fans soon.
 
Under Joe the tenure of the PSU staff was always the subject of sports writers. Many of us old timers can sit and rattle off all the OC, DC all the coaches on the staff from when Joe started till the time he left and do it quickly. That WAS stability but also in many ways WAS complacency.

Today, coaches moving upward and onward from a program is a sign of the success of the program not the opposite. Rattle off the teams that have occupied the top 10 frequently the past couple decades and assistant coaches in those programs move upwardly and onward in great frequency.

Those we call the chicken little crowd here have not yet adapted to the new PSU and probably long for the security of the old PSU ways. I, for one, do not. For the program to be vital and dynamic coaches must come and go and for that to happen in a way that enhances the program a master CEO is required to manage the organization. We have one of those.... a very good one and a very young one.... and it is exciting and not frightening or troubling to many of us.... I hope it is that way for all PSU fans soon.

I think it's more about the lack of something to talk about. Games are over, we are not in the NC mix thanks to MSU. May as well go on and on about our assistants leaving.

Fact is it isn't just the complacency before... it's about the money.

I find it funny that schools are today paying 5x what they were paying coaches just 5 years ago with net, the same results.

Coaching is zero sum. Teams win or lose and all teams in conferences make the same money either way. I can't name many programs doing considerably better because they are paying a coach $5mm today vs. the $1mm or so from 5 years ago.

LdN
 
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I think it's more about the lack of something to talk about. Games are over, we are not in the NC mix thanks to MSU. May as well go on and on about our assistants leaving.

Fact is it isn't just the complacency before... it's about the money.

I find it funny that schools are today paying 5x what they were paying coaches just 5 years ago with net, the same results.

Coaching is zero sum. Teams win or lose and all teams in conferences make the same money either way. I can't name many programs doing considerably better because they are paying a coach $5mm today vs. the $1mm or so from 5 years ago.

LdN
It's like we're living in a CFB head coaching "market bubble". It's understandable since those awarding these exhorbinant salaries are actually expending "other people's money/donations".
 
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I think it's more about the lack of something to talk about. Games are over, we are not in the NC mix thanks to MSU. May as well go on and on about our assistants leaving.

Fact is it isn't just the complacency before... it's about the money.

I find it funny that schools are today paying 5x what they were paying coaches just 5 years ago with net, the same results.

Coaching is zero sum. Teams win or lose and all teams in conferences make the same money either way. I can't name many programs doing considerably better because they are paying a coach $5mm today vs. the $1mm or so from 5 years ago.

LdN

Nor can I but it is the way of our times and not only in college sports but in all organizations and corporations....
 
Under Joe the tenure of the PSU staff was always the subject of sports writers. Many of us old timers can sit and rattle off all the OC, DC all the coaches on the staff from when Joe started till the time he left and do it quickly. That WAS stability but also in many ways WAS complacency.

Today, coaches moving upward and onward from a program is a sign of the success of the program not the opposite. Rattle off the teams that have occupied the top 10 frequently the past couple decades and assistant coaches in those programs move upwardly and onward in great frequency.

Those we call the chicken little crowd here have not yet adapted to the new PSU and probably long for the security of the old PSU ways. I, for one, do not. For the program to be vital and dynamic coaches must come and go and for that to happen in a way that enhances the program a master CEO is required to manage the organization. We have one of those.... a very good one and a very young one.... and it is exciting and not frightening or troubling to many of us.... I hope it is that way for all PSU fans soon.

I agree with much of your post. (And I think I understand what you are saying! ;))

You may be right about some of us lifelong fans needing time to process the fact that PSU is now much more like other top-tier programs in that assistant coaches, and even players, will come and go far more often than we have ever seen or imagined at one time.

JVP was big on not just loyalty, but also the consistency which brought better results over the long run. He was right; and a good number of the old-time coaches kept a good portion of the major cogs of their staffs together for significant periods of time. I'm not sure I would label it complacency, though. Imo, it was more of sticking to the process, sticking with what has been proven to be successful over the long run. However, those times have changed, to some degree before 2011, but certainly it is in full bloom in 2017.

Franklin is a really nice blend for us.... he also believes in loyalty and the success that is partly bred through consistency... but he understands the realities of today's college game, the pressures, the money, the goals that these type-A coaches have to find their own success. While I cannot imagine leaving the beauty of State College for Starkville MS (no offense to StarkVegas!), I don't have the same long-term goals and aspirations as many of these coaches do.
I'm ok with that, or getting there fast, and I'm as old-school, pro-JVP, loved-the-way-it-was as anyone. We knew that post-JVP, things would change in many ways. The only untouchable for me is Success With Honor, and Franklin is keeping that going as well as we could want.

JoMo leaving was one thing; Huff leaving made me a little sad for a few minutes. But I knew that we would, at some point, start to lose a coach or two every year or two. I am trying to accept that as the new normal. It's a good sign in many ways; the necessary timing of those moves will always be a potentially bad thing. Franklin is the constant; we cannot lose him for another 5 or 6 years at least, and I certainly hope we keep him well beyond that (given his trajectory and approach is about what it is now). He'll get feelers or offers or crazy money thrown at him each year. (Just like JVP did early on, in the simpler terms of those times.)

The irony of course will always be that JVP's sense of loyalty to coaches and to players and to PSU - at the cost of more wins or more shots at the B1G title or the NC - was rather unique among the elite programs. Not saying he didn't want to win; he absolutely was highly competitive, but just not at all costs. But we were accused of having the exact culture problem - winning is the only thing - that nearly all other programs had and have except for us. We criticize JVP's loyalty, we criticize him for many reasons, which shows that it was more we fans who had and still have the culture issue, while JVP and his staff did not.

Here's to Franklin not having to hear the same criticisms while maintaining Success With Honor. Do your thing, James, and we'll once again see many great seasons accomplished by terrific young men who are outstanding athletes. That's the PSU way.
 
Under Joe the tenure of the PSU staff was always the subject of sports writers. Many of us old timers can sit and rattle off all the OC, DC all the coaches on the staff from when Joe started till the time he left and do it quickly. That WAS stability but also in many ways WAS complacency.

Today, coaches moving upward and onward from a program is a sign of the success of the program not the opposite. Rattle off the teams that have occupied the top 10 frequently the past couple decades and assistant coaches in those programs move upwardly and onward in great frequency.

Those we call the chicken little crowd here have not yet adapted to the new PSU and probably long for the security of the old PSU ways. I, for one, do not. For the program to be vital and dynamic coaches must come and go and for that to happen in a way that enhances the program a master CEO is required to manage the organization. We have one of those.... a very good one and a very young one.... and it is exciting and not frightening or troubling to many of us.... I hope it is that way for all PSU fans soon.
I don't know about assistant coaches but teams like ND and Tennessee have changed head coaches pretty often. I don't think that was a sign of success.
 
Coaching stability is still what every coach wants. Franklin was just praising the program and how we now have everyone in the same page and poof we lose 2 guys. Not good.

You can’t compare because now every HC is making 5 million +/- with coordinators making 1 mil. That’s not even in the salary ballpark for most of JoePas career who was only himself making 1 mil. Jimbo is about to get a 10 yr 75 mil. contract at aTm.
 
Under Joe the tenure of the PSU staff was always the subject of sports writers. Many of us old timers can sit and rattle off all the OC, DC all the coaches on the staff from when Joe started till the time he left and do it quickly. That WAS stability but also in many ways WAS complacency.

Today, coaches moving upward and onward from a program is a sign of the success of the program not the opposite. Rattle off the teams that have occupied the top 10 frequently the past couple decades and assistant coaches in those programs move upwardly and onward in great frequency.

Those we call the chicken little crowd here have not yet adapted to the new PSU and probably long for the security of the old PSU ways. I, for one, do not. For the program to be vital and dynamic coaches must come and go and for that to happen in a way that enhances the program a master CEO is required to manage the organization. We have one of those.... a very good one and a very young one.... and it is exciting and not frightening or troubling to many of us.... I hope it is that way for all PSU fans soon.

WHAT do you expect? You're dealing with apes.
 
Under Joe the tenure of the PSU staff was always the subject of sports writers. Many of us old timers can sit and rattle off all the OC, DC all the coaches on the staff from when Joe started till the time he left and do it quickly. That WAS stability but also in many ways WAS complacency.

Today, coaches moving upward and onward from a program is a sign of the success of the program not the opposite. Rattle off the teams that have occupied the top 10 frequently the past couple decades and assistant coaches in those programs move upwardly and onward in great frequency.

Those we call the chicken little crowd here have not yet adapted to the new PSU and probably long for the security of the old PSU ways. I, for one, do not. For the program to be vital and dynamic coaches must come and go and for that to happen in a way that enhances the program a master CEO is required to manage the organization. We have one of those.... a very good one and a very young one.... and it is exciting and not frightening or troubling to many of us.... I hope it is that way for all PSU fans soon.

Any fan who has trouble "adapting" to a new football coach needs to see a shrink.
 
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later In Joes career there was stability not because of sticking to any process, it was because no one else wanted the coaches that were here save for the ones that actually got jobs after Joe was pushed out. Don’t kid yourself, no one was beating down the door for Jay, Galen, or Dick Anderson.
 
Joe became a head coach in 1966.His principles and philosophies worked to the tune of 409 wins. James is off to a great start with 35.
Is it so difficult to appreciate the contributions and successes of each? James became a head coach in 2010....can we say things have changed in 45 years? Did you have air conditioning, power steering,brakes and windows in your car then? I didn't, but I had some cars that I really liked. I loved Joe and will never disparage any part of his tenure. I think that is foolish. But good lord.....he passed away, what 6 years ago?The world has changed and along with it coaching.
 
later In Joes career there was stability not because of sticking to any process, it was because no one else wanted the coaches that were here save for the ones that actually got jobs after Joe was pushed out. Don’t kid yourself, no one was beating down the door for Jay, Galen, or Dick Anderson.
05,08,09 PSU finished in the top 10 and they were 8-1 when Joe was fired. Who the hell was coaching the team?
PS Isn't PSU currently ranked 9?
 
05,08,09 PSU finished in the top 10 and they were 8-1 when Joe was fired. Who the hell was coaching the team?
PS Isn't PSU currently ranked 9?

What you said has 0 do to the fact that no one else was trying to hire coaches like Jay, Dick, or any of the offensive coaches. The ones that got jobs after BOB took over were the ones that were coaching teams and were good.
 
What you said has 0 do to the fact that no one else was trying to hire coaches like Jay, Dick, or any of the offensive coaches. The ones that got jobs after BOB took over were the ones that were coaching teams and were good.
Coaches like Hall and Anderson may not have attracted interest because of their age, not because they were bad coaches.

Many agreed that Jay was hired solely because of Joe but there's little doubt that his last name is keeping him out of football. Look at what happened to Schiano. Nobody is going to touch Jay with a 10' pole regardless of his ability.
 
Larry Johnson.
He must be killing the OSU program by now.
 
Always funny when I read these posts. When you are winning, like Iowa 2 years ago, it is because of the stability of the staff. When you are losing, like Iowa last year, it is because of the complacency of the staff.
The solution the way i see it is to win.

Otherwise, we may have to fire coaches Pry, Gattis, and Chaos soon.
 
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Thanks. BTW, I am having problems with .pdf preview. Seems I can't close the document once I view it. Any help with that?
 
What you said has 0 do to the fact that no one else was trying to hire coaches like Jay, Dick, or any of the offensive coaches. The ones that got jobs after BOB took over were the ones that were coaching teams and were good.
of course....the teams were on autopilot.
 
later In Joes career there was stability not because of sticking to any process, it was because no one else wanted the coaches that were here save for the ones that actually got jobs after Joe was pushed out. Don’t kid yourself, no one was beating down the door for Jay, Galen, or Dick Anderson.
Galen and Dick retired from coaching. We are down to Jay?
 
Remember that Joe regularly turned down raises to have that money go to his assistants. They were some of the best compensated assistants in all of CFB while Joe made $800K.

Today it is miltimillion dollar head coaches with million dollar assistants that people track flights and twitter accounts to see if they are moving to their favorite program. I understand the current process, but it doesn't mean I have to like it!

Love CJF and what he is doing for PSU, but six years later I still miss Joe too!
 
Let’s not sugarcoat things. Penn State underperformed the last 10 years of Joe’s career. Penn State is a top 10 program and we weren’t anywhere close to being a top 10 program those last years.
Mainly because the offense was brutal and way underperformed it’s talent.
The switching between Bolden and McGloin was the height of absurdity. Bolden was probably the worst starting QB in Penn State history but somehow he kept getting reps over McGloin who was one of our better QB’s.
And the team was a mess, the QB coach almost gets in a fight with the defense, a teammate gets in a fight with McGloin and gives him a concussion before a bowl game and all the off-field incidents. Heck we had a team captain and starter break into someone’s apartment and beat someone up and not miss a start.
I can’t imagine any of that happening when Joe was in his prime.
And for those who don’t think the offense was underperformed, just look what happpened with the offense when BOB came in.
Joe was a great coach, but he stayed too long.
 
Remember that Joe regularly turned down raises to have that money go to his assistants. They were some of the best compensated assistants in all of CFB while Joe made $800K.

Today it is miltimillion dollar head coaches with million dollar assistants that people track flights and twitter accounts to see if they are moving to their favorite program. I understand the current process, but it doesn't mean I have to like it!

Love CJF and what he is doing for PSU, but six years later I still miss Joe too!
With you on Joe. I knew I’d love PSU football less once he moved on. And it was true.

CFB has changed and it’s a mixed bag. Still love PSU but it’ll never be what it was. Given that CFB has changed and how, I really like what CJF has brought to PSU and I hope he can keep his thing going for a long time.
 
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Let’s not sugarcoat things. Penn State underperformed the last 10 years of Joe’s career. Penn State is a top 10 program and we weren’t anywhere close to being a top 10 program those last years.
Mainly because the offense was brutal and way underperformed it’s talent.
The switching between Bolden and McGloin was the height of absurdity. Bolden was probably the worst starting QB in Penn State history but somehow he kept getting reps over McGloin who was one of our better QB’s.
And the team was a mess, the QB coach almost gets in a fight with the defense, a teammate gets in a fight with McGloin and gives him a concussion before a bowl game and all the off-field incidents. Heck we had a team captain and starter break into someone’s apartment and beat someone up and not miss a start.
I can’t imagine any of that happening when Joe was in his prime.
And for those who don’t think the offense was underperformed, just look what happpened with the offense when BOB came in.
Joe was a great coach, but he stayed too long.

Last ten years: '01 - '11 (so 11 years, but your time frame is a good reference point).

Over that span... yes, underperformed vs. the previous 35 seasons overall.
Still:
'05, '08: B1G Champions. Prior to '05, JVP told us we would be back if he could keep the staff together, and knowing he had a top recruiting class coming in in '05, and he delivered.
'09: A disappointing 11-2. Still, a solid season with a solid bowl win.
'11: 8-1 until JVP left. Not much offense, but an outstanding defense to that point. Bolden proved to be a bad QB over his time here. McGloin proved to be a very good QB later in his time here.

We were a Top 10 team within that time frame in 3 or 4 season; as for being a Top 10 program in that time.... we were close. Top 15 maybe? The later part of the '00 decade made up for the earlier part to some degree. Not many other programs were consistent through that time. Ohio State was, Michigan was not. USC was, Oklahoma was, Bama was not. Florida was, FSU was, Nebraska was not. We had slipped into the middle of the traditionally elite programs, maybe? Still better than 80% of Div. 1A teams, though.

Joe had lost his fastball, as we all said at the time, and most of us wanted him to retire anydaynow! from about '04 on. I certainly did. But I felt he had earned the right to go on his own terms. I was like most every other fan, often saying 'I wonder what another staff could do with this talent?'. I was ok with the 9-4 and 8-5 seasons for a short time until he retired and we hired a great coach who would without a doubt take the same team to 10-2, 11-2, 12-1. I was looking at the long term, not the Must Win Now approach.

And sure enough, the talent was there, and a fresh approach by a new staff brought it out as much as could be done. Without the sanctions nonsense, we would not have missed a beat in getting back to the top, imo.
 
Under Joe the tenure of the PSU staff was always the subject of sports writers. Many of us old timers can sit and rattle off all the OC, DC all the coaches on the staff from when Joe started till the time he left and do it quickly. That WAS stability but also in many ways WAS complacency.

Today, coaches moving upward and onward from a program is a sign of the success of the program not the opposite. Rattle off the teams that have occupied the top 10 frequently the past couple decades and assistant coaches in those programs move upwardly and onward in great frequency.

Those we call the chicken little crowd here have not yet adapted to the new PSU and probably long for the security of the old PSU ways. I, for one, do not. For the program to be vital and dynamic coaches must come and go and for that to happen in a way that enhances the program a master CEO is required to manage the organization. We have one of those.... a very good one and a very young one.... and it is exciting and not frightening or troubling to many of us.... I hope it is that way for all PSU fans soon.
Truthfully, almost all of the schools had more stable coaching staffs 30+ yrs ago. The coaching carousel is not just new to PSU, while certainly we were one of the last to hop aboard, the number of coaching changes in any given year in the 80's, 70's, 60's ... even the 90's, was nothing near what we see today. Money has become so overwhelmingly important for the schools that even winning seasons result in coaches, and not just head coaches, being let go, pushed out, fired. That opens up spots to be filled by more successful coaches to move into from other schools, which opens more slots for people to move up, which opens .... You get the point.
 
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Today, coaches moving upward and onward from a program is a sign of the success of the program not the opposite.
Todd Graham must have been a fantastically successful coach at Pitt! I guess we should all hope that we get coaches that leave quickly because then they MUST be good!
 
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