Seriously..........how do we contend with this?

[Ranger Dan]

As long as Saban can convince 5 star players to compete and maybe sit behind another 5 or 4 star, it will be an uphil battle. Great teams and great recruits aren’t the same, so teams like Clemson and others who have reasonably close talent and great coaches can still compete.

 

[tboyer]

https://n.rivals.com/news/take-two-can-alabama-land-the-five-star-img-academy-trio-

Let's start by trying to beat Michigan State.

 

[nitanee123]

Get ready to move the goal posts....I mean he admitted to it.

https://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/ncaa...-j-fluker-tweeted-april-224650823--ncaaf.html

It says he got $ from an agent. It doesn't say it was a booster nor does it link this agent to Saban or a staff member. I'll reserve judgment.

 

[Howie'81]

It says he got $ from an agent. It doesn't say it was a booster nor does it link this agent to Saban or a staff member. I'll reserve judgment.

That "vehicle" has a nice back end.

 

[Nitt1300]

Have you ever driven a dodge charger? Pile of crap. How about a 5-6 year old one?

They all drive used dodges because they are big cars that are dirt cheap. None of the kids are driving new hellcats.

Reminds me of people flipping out when Terrell Pryor got a "sports car" and it was an old 350Z that was probably worth 10-15 grand.

I spent a week with a Charger with the 485hp hemi- can't say how they will hold up long term, but if driving one doesn't make you smile then you simply have no sense of humor at all.

 

[PS4814]

It says he got $ from an agent. It doesn't say it was a booster nor does it link this agent to Saban or a staff member. I'll reserve judgment.

I know you won't but I'd recommend reading this write up from SBNation which will explain exactly why nothing is ever linked back to the school or the coach. You're never going to be able to get that "proof" that you're looking for, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/4/10/5594348/college-football-bag-man-interview

"Whatever the minimum of necessary paperwork to absolve a player of improper benefits received is, it's not a problem. A title for a moderately priced SUV can be created in a relative's name, as can a receipt of sale for a reasonable price.

"Hey, how'd he get that ride? His uncle bought it. How did his uncle buy it? Paid cash. Paid cash, how'd he do that? Shit, we don't know, but here's the receipt where he paid cash, and now y'all ain't got shit. Go tell the NCAA you think we're cheating because this kid's uncle bought him a used Tahoe in cash, you racist."

Remember, your job as a bag man isn't to hide the benefit. It's to hide the proof. In a region as passionate about college football as the American South, there's no real moral outrage when new cars or clothes or jobs for relatives appear.

"We can only get away with whatever's considered reasonable by the majority of the folks in our society. That's why it's different in the SEC. Maybe that's why we're able to be more active in what we do. Because no one ever looks at the car or the jewelry and says, 'How did you get that, poor football player?' They say, 'How did they get you that and not get caught, poor football player?'""

 

[bdgan]

Who is actually challenging Bama right now- I see nobody.

CJF is doing what needs to be done, the results will be evident soon. But Saban is the king, and will be for awhile.

If you go by the last 4 team recruiting rankings I'd say Georgia & OSU are challenging Alabama (2016-2019 to date).

Alabama 1st, 1st, 7th, 1st
Georgia 9th, 3rd, 1st, 7th
Ohio State 3rd, 2nd, 2nd, 17th

Penn State 21st, 12th, 5th, 13th
Michigan 4th, 4th, 24th, 8th
Clemson 6th, 22nd, 8th, 4th



Alabama is ranked 1st for 2019 and they still have several 5* prospects interested so my guess is that they'll remain #1. Georgia only has 17 verbals and several 5* kids interested so they should move into the top 5. OSU only has 15 so I expect them to easily get back into the top 10 but maybe not top 5. All 3 of those teams will likely finish in the top 5 for 3 out of the last 4 years.

Michigan could also finish top 5 for the 3rd time in 4 years if they get Harrison. PSU has more spots but only a few 4* showing high interest. Hopefully a top 10 finish.

 

[tboyer]

I think Penn State is doing a great job but We need to take advantage of our chances. I think Penn State will continue to be a top 10 program with a chance once every 5-10 years to get into the playoff. Last year was our chance and we lost to Michigan State and screwed it up. I see 10 wins this year which is awesome and a good team again next year but I do not see a top 4 team next year. Continue to build depth and maybe in a couple of years we will have our shot again

Exactly, the next step for this program is to not lose three of four to Michigan State. Winning the MSU game would mean playoffs last year and a much better bowl this year.

 

[BrucePa]

Look across campus to the wrestling program. This year will be the 8th national title in 10 years. That's a dynasty.

You might think wrestling is not a major sport, but Jan Johnson was also on the wrestling team at one point -- he didn't do so well -- and Micah Parsons wants to wrestle for Cael. Ohio State and Iowa are trying to catch Penn State. So is Cornell and Michigan. They can't come close.

Cael has about 35 wrestlers in the room, and can only dole out 9.9 scholarships per year. Dominance in arguably the most grueling of the NCAA sports is something Penn State can claim to be familiar with....

 

[fastlax16]

Oh my bad....I didn't realize you had done the breakdown on every kid and year they got. Sorry, let's move on to the cash part then. I love it when someone thinks they made a good point and they failed...chin up there.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-fo...330/dee-liner-cash-instagram-alabama-football

Forget that players who left there admitted to improper gifts....it's all just made up. You apparently think that....too funny.

Way to go off the rails. I didn't say its all made up, I have no doubt players take impermissible benefits. Just your specific post about the cars isn't a big deal. OMG a player got a dui in a 6 year old dodge, must have gotten that car illegally.

The article you posted from 2016 talks about 2011 and 2012 dodge chargers... I do think people getting bent out of shape over crappy used cars and saying things like, "Hand out Dodge Chargers like they are candy." is humorous. If Trace and Miles drove new Honda Civics no one would go "Oh the key to Penn State's success is Honda Civics.".

 

[Agoodnap]

Not sure if everyone realizes it, but football players on full scholarship can afford a pretty nice vehicle without cheating. Here's how:

Stipend $3,000 - $5,000 dollars per year depending on school

Stafford Subsidized Loan (the type that don't accumulate interest)
Freshmen: $3,500
Sophomore: $4,500
Juniors/Seniors: $5,500

So that leaves somewhere between $6,500 to $10,500 per year, tax free. You could drive/lease a real nice car and still pay your bar bill with that amount of money coming in per year.

 

[fastlax16]

I spent a week with a Charger with the 485hp hemi- can't say how they will hold up long term, but if driving one doesn't make you smile then you simply have no sense of humor at all.

Depends on what you're used to but Scatpacks/392s/SRT models are fun. None of the players are pictured with them. Drive an sxt with the v6 or an r/t with the underpowered v8, especially the sxt, and fun isn't the first thing that comes to mind. Nor is resale value.

 

[nitanee123]

I know you won't but I'd recommend reading this write up from SBNation which will explain exactly why nothing is ever linked back to the school or the coach. You're never going to be able to get that "proof" that you're looking for, but that doesn't mean it isn't happening.

https://www.sbnation.com/college-football/2014/4/10/5594348/college-football-bag-man-interview

"Whatever the minimum of necessary paperwork to absolve a player of improper benefits received is, it's not a problem. A title for a moderately priced SUV can be created in a relative's name, as can a receipt of sale for a reasonable price.

"Hey, how'd he get that ride? His uncle bought it. How did his uncle buy it? Paid cash. Paid cash, how'd he do that? Shit, we don't know, but here's the receipt where he paid cash, and now y'all ain't got shit. Go tell the NCAA you think we're cheating because this kid's uncle bought him a used Tahoe in cash, you racist."

Remember, your job as a bag man isn't to hide the benefit. It's to hide the proof. In a region as passionate about college football as the American South, there's no real moral outrage when new cars or clothes or jobs for relatives appear.

"We can only get away with whatever's considered reasonable by the majority of the folks in our society. That's why it's different in the SEC. Maybe that's why we're able to be more active in what we do. Because no one ever looks at the car or the jewelry and says, 'How did you get that, poor football player?' They say, 'How did they get you that and not get caught, poor football player?'""

Here's my 2 cents. I'm just going to shot gun this:
1. The author of the article even says he cannot provide proof (names, locations, etc..). I understand why, but let's just take that with a grain of salt.
2. NFL rosters are littered with kids who grew up in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida. The talent in the SEC region is unmatched. So it is no wonder that the SEC dominates rankings. All the $ in the world isn't going to make a kid more talented....the talent is already there.
3. Does impropriety exist? I don't doubt it. Does it occur to the extent that it is changing the landscape of college football? I highly doubt it. As stated above, there is alot of SEC talent to begin with. Further, if it is as prevalent as the author of the article states, then where is the proof? Are you telling me there are no 5-star recruits who received $$ but didn't have a NFL career that wouldn't love to sell their story to Hollywood for big $$??
4. Why would Alabama need to do this? They have (arguably) the greatest college coach in history. 5-star kids who believe they will be earning multi $$ in 3-4 years are willing to sit the bench! Are they doing this because they are getting a car or a TV? I just don't see it. (And again...it may happen but I just don't think its that prevalent.)

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Here's my 2 cents. I'm just going to shot gun this:
1. The author of the article even says he cannot provide proof (names, locations, etc..). I understand why, but let's just take that with a grain of salt.
2. NFL rosters are littered with kids who grew up in Alabama, Mississippi, Georgia, South Carolina, and Florida. The talent in the SEC region is unmatched. So it is no wonder that the SEC dominates rankings. All the $ in the world isn't going to make a kid more talented....the talent is already there.
3. Does impropriety exist? I don't doubt it. Does it occur to the extent that it is changing the landscape of college football? I highly doubt it. As stated above, there is alot of SEC talent to begin with. Further, if it is as prevalent as the author of the article states, then where is the proof? Are you telling me there are no 5-star recruits who received $$ but didn't have a NFL career that wouldn't love to sell their story to Hollywood for big $$??
4. Why would Alabama need to do this? They have (arguably) the greatest college coach in history. 5-star kids who believe they will be earning multi $$ in 3-4 years are willing to sit the bench! Are they doing this because they are getting a car or a TV? I just don't see it. (And again...it may happen but I just don't think its that prevalent.)

Why did the get caught 2 times before and put on probation? You somehow think that culture just went away...ok.

 

[RU31trap]

Nick Saban and Alabama are measured by their National Championships. He recruits kids that do not want to be lectured about attending class or graduating, instead they want to hear stats on first round draft picks and signing a multi-million dollar contract. That will not work here at Penn State. On several occasions I’ve heard Coach Franklin stress the importance of attending class, getting a good education and hopefully graduating. If my memory serves me right, Coach Paterno said an athlete who does not take advantage of the free education afforded him is short changing himself, he was right. The SEC and Alabama will always win this recruiting argument.

 

[Art]

Not sure if everyone realizes it, but football players on full scholarship can afford a pretty nice vehicle without cheating. Here's how:

Stipend $3,000 - $5,000 dollars per year depending on school

Stafford Subsidized Loan (the type that don't accumulate interest)
Freshmen: $3,500
Sophomore: $4,500
Juniors/Seniors: $5,500

So that leaves somewhere between $6,500 to $10,500 per year, tax free. You could drive/lease a real nice car and still pay your bar bill with that amount of money coming in per year.

Nice try, but if a kid receives a scholarship that covers the full cost of attendance he doesn't qualify for a subsidized Stafford loan.

 

[nitanee123]

Why did the get caught 2 times before and put on probation? You somehow think that culture just went away...ok.

Please clarify. To which incidents are you referring?

 

[Connorpozlee]

I have no way of knowing for sure, but I think of all the teams in the SEC, the one least likely to cheat is Alabama. They have no reason to and the risk is greater than the reward.

Don’t kid yourself into thinking Alabama isn’t offering up some side benefits.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Please clarify. To which incidents are you referring?

Google it. Maybe you're a bit younger and just didn't know they were busted in the past.

 

[Grass]

The funny thing is the dropping down to 85 scholarships was supposed to bring parity to college football. Until all conferences have the same rules in regards to recruiting nothing will change. They could start by getting rid of the over-signing.

 

[step.eng69]

That "vehicle" has a nice back end.

"ride"

 

[Howie'81]

"ride"

I'm keeping it PG.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

The funny thing is the dropping down to 85 scholarships was supposed to bring parity to college football. Until all conferences have the same rules in regards to recruiting nothing will change. They could start by getting rid of the over-signing.

I've said for years that you can get 22-23 a year, every year. No more, no less. You lose people to injuries or transfers...too bad. You can still shirt players and give medical waivers, but none of this hiding ships or sliding the numbers.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

I've said for years that you can get 22-23 a year, every year. No more, no less. You lose people to injuries or transfers...too bad. You can still shirt players and give medical waivers, but none of this hiding ships or sliding the numbers.

So, programs that produce NFL players at a high rate are going to be at a disadvantage in terms of depth. Not sure how that's fair. Obviously Alabama and Clemson are going to have more transfers and kids leaving early. You're setting a scenario in which a school can have 100 while another might have in the 60s. It doesn't work.

Don't get me wrong. I like the theory but it doesn't work in practice.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

So, programs that produce NFL players at a high rate are going to be at a disadvantage in terms of depth. Not sure how that's fair. Obviously Alabama and Clemson are going to have more transfers and kids leaving early. You're setting a scenario in which a school can have 100 while another might have in the 60s. It doesn't work.

Don't get me wrong. I like the theory but it doesn't work in practice.

Was it fair when the SEC was over signing like crazy? It was no coincidence that the SEC skyrocketed during that period in a huge way. Every school playing by the same rules is now unfair, really? I'm not buying that either.

23x5 = 115. Between shirts, transfers, and early NFL entries...you're saying they will lose 11 a year in every class? While it is possible...it's not going to be the average or close to it.

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Was it fair when the SEC was over signing like crazy? It was no coincidence that the SEC skyrocketed during that period in a huge way. Every school playing by the same rules is now unfair, really? I'm not buying that either.

Over-signing wasn't fair either. But one system being wrong doesn't mean we should go to another system that is wrong. You system is putting players health at risk if you have some teams with 60 scholarship players while others have 100. It doesn't work. That's the exact same reason the sanctions against us should have never existed because, at the end of the day, the kids come first.

There needs to be a set number for all schools not a set number per year. Franklin encourages kids to graduate in 3 years. Hopefully a lot are gone after that. Grad transfers, NFL or just moving on with life. There should be very few players that stay for 5 on a top tier program like we want.

 

[PennStateNate]

Trust me guy's it's not a fair recruiting landscape and the NCAA is not going to step in and make it fair anytime soon.

What are they going to do? Tell kids they can’t go to that school. Good luck with that.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Over-signing wasn't fair either. But one system being wrong doesn't mean we should go to another system that is wrong. You system is putting players health at risk if you have some teams with 60 scholarship players while others have 100. It doesn't work. That's the exact same reason the sanctions against us should have never existed because, at the end of the day, the kids come first.

There needs to be a set number for all schools not a set number per year. Franklin encourages kids to graduate in 3 years. Hopefully a lot are gone after that. Grad transfers, NFL or just moving on with life. There should be very few players that stay for 5 on a top tier program like we want.

Your numbers aren't working right and they are exaggerated. You are saying that they would lose half of every single class for 5 years. Nobody would be getting any special numbers or hiding any ships. Some years will be leaner than others for everyone at some point or another.

 

[nitanee123]

Google it. Maybe you're a bit younger and just didn't know they were busted in the past.

I asked you to clarify so that I could Google it. Who is "they"? And I'm not sure what you mean by "busted"? (If I'm not mistaken, aren't there only 2 schools, one of which being PSU, that haven't been sanctioned?)

 

[lj4heisman1]

I spent a week with a Charger with the 485hp hemi- can't say how they will hold up long term, but if driving one doesn't make you smile then you simply have no sense of humor at all.

Same here....went to the rental counter at salt lake airport said i could have a ford cruze or a dodge charger. I said um........... i will take the charger. Same price. was a gas to drive. Lots of fun with it for a week on the wide open roads in utah idaho wyoming and montana.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I asked you to clarify so that I could Google it. Who is "they"? And I'm not sure what you mean by "busted"? (If I'm not mistaken, aren't there only 2 schools, one of which being PSU, that haven't been sanctioned?)

Google Alabama football probation or NCAA sanctions. So I guess you really weren't aware of their history. That kind of makes sense as to why you may feel they are just that good with no help. I mean Tuscaloosa is almost like the Caribbean so I get why kids from around the nation are beating down that door. Oddly enough after their last round of probation they actually pulled back to the middle of the pack for a while. Probably just an odd coincidence. Now, don't get me wrong...they are a great football program, but this idea that nothing is going on there is pretty naive. I spent too much time around LSU and SEC fans I guess.

https://www.ledger-enquirer.com/sports/college/sec/university-of-alabama/article29055703.html

 

[sss]

Please clarify. To which incidents are you referring?

Google Albert Means and his recruitment. Yes, I realize this is back in the early 2000s. But if the going rate for a top DT was >100K back then, imagine what the skill players were getting. Did all those boosters and culture disappear when Saban took over? Maybe, but ,maybe not.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Google Albert Means and his recruitment. Yes, I realize this is back in the early 2000s. But if the going rate for a top DT was >100K back then, imagine what the skill players were getting. Did all those boosters and culture disappear when Saban took over? Maybe, but ,maybe not.

150k to his coach.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...b19d262/?noredirect=on&utm_term=.8a6d8cdf3124

 

[2020 is Our Year]

Your numbers aren't working right and they are exaggerated. You are saying that they would lose half of every single class for 5 years. Nobody would be getting any special numbers or hiding any ships. Some years will be leaner than others for everyone at some point or another.

I'll pull up the Bama roster tonight and do a breakdown. They would lose most of the 5th year and 4th year classes and probably 1/3 to 1/2 of their third year class. Again, I'll run numbers tonight but elite programs don't keep kids for 4-5 years as the standard

 

[LaJolla Lion]

I'll pull up the Bama roster tonight and do a breakdown. They would lose most of the 5th year and 4th year classes and probably 1/3 to 1/2 of their third year class. Again, I'll run numbers tonight but elite programs don't keep kids for 4-5 years as the standard

They also don't have 40-50% of their class leave early every single year. You don't make rules to cater to 1-2 schools, that isn't how it works. You make rules for the good of the sport and equality in the sport. I don't even understand how anyone could argue this is unfair, but you did it. Congrats. You have no idea on how it would impact them as they would have to adjust to the new rules and maybe instead of running off a 4th year guy, they bring him back. Oh heaven forbid they had to do that. You just basically made up a scenario in your head and now are working to get there...run with it.

 

[marshall23]

Fans who dream of PSU reaching the level that Alabama has been at for the last few years, are dreaming. One year...yes....5-10 years in a row? LOL

 

[fastlax16]

They also don't have 40-50% of their class leave early every single year. You don't make rules to cater to 1-2 schools, that isn't how it works. You make rules for the good of the sport and equality in the sport. I don't even understand how anyone could argue this is unfair, but you did it. Congrats. You have no idea on how it would impact them as they would have to adjust to the new rules and maybe instead of running off a 4th year guy, they bring him back. Oh heaven forbid they had to do that. You just basically made up a scenario in your head and now are working to get there...run with it.

Seems to be how it works in the big ten.

 

[Agoodnap]

Nice try, but if a kid receives a scholarship that covers the full cost of attendance he doesn't qualify for a subsidized Stafford loan.

I would have agreed with you however one of my daughters friends who is on full scholarship took out a Stafford loan in order to lease a car. As it turns out, transportation is important to obtaining an education and is considered part of the cost of an education. This of course demands that you need a car, which is easy to make a case for by most students.

Again, I would never have thought this was possible but I talked to this girl and she has a Stafford loan and is using it to lease a car. I suspect that the loophole may be lease Vs buy.

 

[Delco Lion]

Contend? We are F'ng Penn State. It is what it is and I would not want it any other way. Whose with me??

 

[rudedude]

I would love to see how an SEC team would fare vs us at home with weather like we had for Wisconsin or Maryland.