How hard would it be to put in ONE PLAY where TM goes under center and they run SB up the middle. I know I'd feel better about 4th and 1 on the goal line. Just sayin...
Short yardage package
- Thread starter okinburg1
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Call in to the coach's show on Thursday and ask Franklin. He always appreciates novel questions.
A stubborn coach at PSU.....
Either that or have McSorely just dive foward. It doesn't take John Urschel to figure out getting 1 yard from 2 yards back is easier than getting 1 yard from 7.
When you watch the skill level and vision of Barkley versus Iowa it's hard to imagine a wildcat formation isn't a reasonable option or even a package involving our backup QB. Great game and in the end a huge win. Love this team and coaching staff....
Posters here went absolutely nuts about the wildcat formation when Bill O'Brien used it. They f'g hated it....it was soooooo stupid. So we've come full circle.
Like inside the 5 during a tight road game when the offense isn't showing the ability to finish drives?
it aint happening, just saying'
Exactly. They don't even use it in victory formation so why would we expect them to use it on the goal line.
It's very simple. Direct snap to Barkley. Don't know why it's not part of their package.
Because it's very one dimensional. Adding Trace and Gesicki for a RPO means the defense has to respect Saquon's legs, Trace's legs and Gesicki's catching.
Unless I missed it.....They won didn't they? I know they have many of these in their playbook. They game plan to their opponent. We fans after the fact pull potential plays and sets out of our ass and the coaches do it in real time and after studying the opponent.... I expect we will see more as the season progresses.
If you think the staff game planned to win by 2 on the last play of the game after Iowa miraculously scored too fast to even give us the opportunity... I'll have what you're having. Just because you won doesn't mean there isn't room for improvement. When you put up almost 600 yards of offense and don't even score 20 points,clearly some things weren't working.
That is very true. I have never liked the high school/d3 type of offense. I know it is the current trend and it works but I don't like it. I would love to see Barkley is a pro-set (which will be next year) but I know it isn't happening so I don't pine for it. PSU needs to needs to find something in their offense that is more effective in short yardage situations.
You lose a lot of games scoring 3 instead of 7.
It's never going to happen with this coaching staff. Never. I'm not sure why this keeps getting brought up on a weekly basis, our offense is not going to take a snap under center.
I have accepted that they will not put in a single goal line play under center in the playbook, which astounds me. But that's not their philosophy, OK. What I would like to see instead then is Tommy Stevens taking those short yardage snaps instead of Trace. Put in a Blake Bell"dozer" package as Oklahoma did a few years back. At 230 pounds, he can move the pile if he keeps it.
When you need a critical yard or less, its foolish not to have a plan. Running 6 yards to gain 6 inches is stupidity and even very bright men can be stubborn to a fault. If not addressed it could very well cost PSU dearly.
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anon_1eeb2b426hv3y
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JoMo does not do...........non-RPO plays. Would love to see that "trick play run every 3 series. Oh, and add a 7 yard out. HaHa! What scares me is the offensive plays he will he call once SB is gone because I am not seeing..........genius. Did SB really have 50 plus touches? The most touches in a year is a record that I do not SB to obtain. Think diversity and give someone else the kick off job.
Has a good reason ever been given, other than "we don't do that?" If JoMo is as football smart as we all think he is, you'd think he would agree that running 1 or 2 yards to gain 6 inches is better than running 6+ yards, as another posted stated. Also, no chance of a bad snap if the QB (McSorley or Stevens) is under center.
The horses are there.... a three back set with the backs PSU has.... and either Tommy or Trace would be a scary thing to try to defend....
Even split backs (imagine 230 lb Williams and Warner) inside the 10 would create a big problem for defenders....
If this team ever hopes to win a national title in the future they are going to have to be way more consistent in short yardage situations. What they are doing now isn't working. Period. They struggle converting 3rd downs and anyone who doesn't see that is blind. This offense still isn't clicking like most experts predicted and the Pitt game was very telling. ISU scorched Iowa for 41 points and made it look easy. What do you think is going to happen against Michigan and OSU? I'm not being negative just being realistic.
I don't think it's quite that simple. One play, then you are telegraphing what you will do. Everyone knows what's coming. Therefore, you need other variations off of that look to keep defenses honest. I think this coaching staff is very savvy and can recognize the shortcomings of this scheme. I am as old school as they come but this offense is growing on me. It pressures defenses in ways other offenses cannot. There were plays open to break the game open we just missed on execution. You can credit Iowa or blame us, probably some of both. Everything is a trade off, get something here and give up something else. Explosive offense with some deficiencies or grind it out with some different deficiencies..... the game against Iowa was one we probably lose in the grind it out. They did a great job of keeping Trace in the pocket, Contained, hands up to take passing lanes away. That disrupted our game. Hopefully, this was a learning experience on how to execute in these situations. We are less than 2 years in this system and are number 4 in the country......smile.
Especially when you're kicking FGs with snaps from the one yd line AND you miss a pair of 3s in the same game.
Is there any empirical evidence that teams running the type of offense that PSU does have a lower rate of first downs on 3rd or 4th and 1 than teams that run offenses where the qb is under center?
I like how people who dont coach football seem to have a better command of this stuff than the guys that do.
I like how people who dont coach football seem to have a better command of this stuff than the guys that do.
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Let me ask this - how many times, watching Penn State "back in the day," did you know what was coming when they lined up in a certain formation? Especially in short yardage, I used to watch games with my brother and we would correctly predict the play ourselves. Now, if we knew it was coming, you knew darn well the other team did too, but most times they couldn't stop the play. Why? Overwhelming numbers in your favor will usually allow you to push the pile at least a little bit, which is why so many teams, from high school to college to pro, use a "bunch formation" or whatever terminology you like, in short yardage situations.
Don't get me wrong. I love the new offense. With more talent parity, getting your playmakers in space is obviously effective for generating points and winning games.
Let me ask this - how many times, watching Penn State "back in the day," did you know what was coming when they lined up in a certain formation? Especially in short yardage, I used to watch games with my brother and we would correctly predict the play ourselves. Now, if we knew it was coming, you knew darn well the other team did too, but most times they couldn't stop the play. Why? Overwhelming numbers in your favor will usually allow you to push the pile at least a little bit, which is why so many teams, from high school to college to pro, use a "bunch formation" or whatever terminology you like, in short yardage situations.
I'm the first to admit that I'm not a D1 coach, just a retired HS coach. However, in some respects football is basic. In short yardage, a defense will shoot gaps. Penetration kills a short yardage play. Don't you think a defense has more time to command a gap when the O starts 6 or 7 yards deep?
If your looking beyond a sneak, short yardage usually comes down to wedge blocking or block down inside gap and kick out. Short yardage plays certainly are not designed normally for deception. Still difficult for a defense to stop when you only need inches.
Agreed to a certain extent. The short yardage blocking is as much a mentally as anything. Teams not used to that slobber knocker game can struggle. Our offense is not slobber knocker yet. We are getting better linemen and I believe we wii get there with experience. I think this offense is taking advantage of our skilled players while the line develops in the future.
This gets asked like very week and it gets explained every week. Going under center is literally an entirely different offense. The biggest concern NFL coaches had for Marcus Marriota was that he had never taken a snap under center and it took him a long time to learn how to do it.
Going under center is something that you need to practice every single practice, for the majority of practice. You see problems with QB-center exchanges in the NFL when a center gets hurt and those guys are the best of the best, who play on the same team.
It's never going to happen. It's a completely different offense, and you cannot waste your time practicing going under center for 10 minutes a practice because it's meaningless.
I wish this question would die.
Going under center is something that you need to practice every single practice, for the majority of practice. You see problems with QB-center exchanges in the NFL when a center gets hurt and those guys are the best of the best, who play on the same team.
It's never going to happen. It's a completely different offense, and you cannot waste your time practicing going under center for 10 minutes a practice because it's meaningless.
I wish this question would die.
It has nothing to do with philosophy and it's not just "adding it to the playbook." It's an entirely different offense and requires the QB to do entirely different things, along with the center and the running back. It's far, far more complicated than the people on this board understand. If you don't run a pro style offense you don't go under center. It's not an option.
Short yardage plan for Indy whenever we're 3&2 or 4&2 or less: take a 5 yd delay of game penalty so we're no longer in a short yardage situation.
I started this thread, talking about one play, not changing the entire offense.
However, it sounds as though it would be incredibly time consuming to be able to go under center, even if that logically seems like the best way to pick up one yard or less.
Honest question, since I never played - is performing or receiving a snap under center like riding a bike? Is it something that just comes to you if you haven't done it for a while, or is it something that must be re-learned with hours of practice? I am being 100% serious, because my guess would be the former but some posters are definitely saying it is the latter.
However, it sounds as though it would be incredibly time consuming to be able to go under center, even if that logically seems like the best way to pick up one yard or less.
Honest question, since I never played - is performing or receiving a snap under center like riding a bike? Is it something that just comes to you if you haven't done it for a while, or is it something that must be re-learned with hours of practice? I am being 100% serious, because my guess would be the former but some posters are definitely saying it is the latter.
The problem is very few ever go under center anymore. The game has changed at lower levels and it is going up the ladder.
You seriously think only pro style offenses have short yardage packages under center? Plenty of offenses are not pure pro style, run spread principles, and go under center in those situations. I'm talking 3 or 4 plays, not radically revamping the playbook. I have faith that our kids could handle learning such a limited package.
More to the point, it is absolutely about philosophy. Moorhead believes spreading a defense out is the way to go. Short yardage plays under center compact the defense. It goes against his philosophy, and that has proven to be mostly ineffective in short yardage against good defenses as it is for most teams in shotgun in that situation. Choosing to make 3rd & 1 into 3rd & 5 doesn't realistically make sense, but that's his offensive philosophy.
We have a decent #2 quarterback and a decent #2 center. Have them dedicate time to practicing the snap. Hell they can do it on their own for a few minutes a day to get it down. If you don't want Tommy missing some practice time to do it during that time, then have Clifford practicing it.
We want something for 4th and 1 that allows for a QB sneak and/or Barkley to get the ball closer to the line of scrimmage with a head of steam. Yes, you give up other options, but what we have isn't working. If we can put a package in for Tommy to run a 2QB set, I think we can work in some better short yardage options.
Gisecki can go in motion and turn up into the line, or line up in the backfield as a traditional H-Back for extra blocking.
Give us an under center snap package with about 5 plays including the QB sneak and simple blocking assignments for the line where we just line up and say we are going to knock the man in front of us on his a$$. That's all most of us are asking for. If you have time to put in gadget plays during practice, you have time to install that without taking away from your base offense.
