My original statement was that Flyers fans (of which I'm one) are the dumbest fanbase in sports in general. Violence is pervasive, it's not unique to Philadelphia. Where else did someone jump into the penalty box to fight Tie Domi? Or punch a police horse? Those things aren't in the same class of outright violence, but they are far dumber.
Shots fired by crybaby Manning
- Thread starter pish69
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I disagree. It's anonymous people on the internet. Some posting with multiple handles. HR doesn't represent the Iowa fanbase and never should be viewed that way.
You are suggesting taking the small sample size of homer HR posters and multiplying them to equal the couple hundred thousand Iowa wrestling fans out there. It's doesn't work that way.
No it was funny as shit which it was meant to be. Of course I don't really believe that but that's what makes it funny
So get Vodka to join you and stop posting. It would significantly increase the perception of Iowa wrestling fans on the forums.
Don't scratch that thin skin. We don't want you to bleed out.
Was it Terry or Tom?
I’m going to make a rare exception here and agree with smalls.
If injured wrestlers hide the severity of their injuries by not actually wrestling in conference tournaments, how the heck are Iowa Hawkeye wrestlers going to be able to make informed bets on outcomes at NCAAs?
This is yet another unfair disadvantage for the Hawkeyes.
So, essentially we have three choices: 1) make all 33 allocations to the conferences, which forces everyone to wrestle to make Nationals, or 2) continue with the status quo. or 3) some hybrid. In the first scenario, I think Carter wrestles at B1Gs and qualifies, but Nolf probably would not have been able to go at B1Gs and therefore would not have qualified, or won, that year. So I guess it's a question of will there be some kind of allowance for guys far superior to the field but injured to still qualify for Nationals. In my humble opinion, there should at least be some allowance for this scenario.
Nolf placed 6th in 2018, wrestling 2 matches and then MFF’ing out. I think I’d be fine with option 1 going forward.
I’ve always had the opinion that the “wild card” / “at-large” concept exists specifically for the purpose of ensuring that anomalies do not unfairly punish deserving wrestlers, whether the anomaly be a last-minute injury or some fluky loss in a qualification tournament.
Of course, there must be limits on such a concept to ensure fairness, which I believe the Coaches Rank-RPI-Win% model does quite reasonably. Under that model, it is fair for Starocci to make NCAAs without truly wrestling in the qualification tournament. Willie’s philosophical view on that last point is very narrow.
Everyone wants the very best wrestlers participating at Nationals at their best condition possible. With that goal in mind, I have no problem with an injured wrestler forfeiting a “qualification” tournament and being selected to participate at Nationals on the basis of his regular season achievements.
And with that last point in mind, I’ll say one more thing: anyone who bellyaches about duals not mattering cannot then turn around and imply that a wrestler who earned it during the dual-meet season should be barred from Nationals if he doesn’t wrestle at the conference championship. That would be rather hypocritical, placing disproportionate importance on the conference tourney and further diminishing the importance of duals.
This. Tough matches (or top guys wrestling at all) in duals would become way more rare - especially late in the season
What if the conf tourney played NO special role in choosing who goes to nationals and instead it just counted equally to the regular season duals and we considered the wrestlers’ body of work for the whole season to pick who goes to nationals? Or you could give just the conf champ at each weight an auto qualification to nationals.
Then duals and conf championship performance matter equally, right? And top competitors who may be injured but can’t go at the conf tourney would still get in on the strength of their regular season performance. Or am I missing something (entirely possible/likely)?
Some might argue that this would incentivize wrestlers to skip the conf tourney thereby diminishing its value, especially the top ranked guys would be sure to get in to nationals on the strength of their regular season performance alone. But maybe the seeding hit they would take for missing those several matches would offset that incentive?
Or we could just keep it the way it is and acknowledge any system of assigning NCAA tournament bids is going to have its flaws. I haven't seen any proposals that make mote sense than what we have now.
Attached or attacked?
Neither would be a good look, but let's hope that if was the former, it was not done in public.
I'll simply add this. I do not believe it is remotely fair to penalize an athlete because they get injured. Conference Championships be damned. Everyone knows, Carter is the best at the weight. He has proven it 3 years in a row. Now, some are saying he's the 9th best? Lmao. You cannot defend that. There is no way in hell Carter is the 9th best wrestler at his weight.
I'm totally fine with lower seeding for wrestlers who miss the conference championships. However, like most others here, it pisses me off that Lewis is the one getting penalized. At least put Cstar at the 10 seed. It's not that hard.
It's a cluster, no doubt. For me, it's simply a philosophical difference. I will never accept an athlete getting dinged due to an injury. I can't think of another sport that does this.
fly over states. Most of Pa is considered a flyover for the eastern 1/4 of Pa lol. Most of us who live in the central part, hope they all just fly over.
the only reason anyone thinks that it's ok to sit out/ff out of a conference tournament is b/c the rules allow it.
exactly 0% of PA Wrestling fans would be exasperated if a state medal contender got hurt at Districts and couldn't go to regionals or Hershey.
it's a matter of perspective.
you're ok with college guys passing the buck for a couple more weeks b/c the rules allow it, and that's what you're used to.
but those rules exist absolutely no where else in the sport.
exactly 0% of PA Wrestling fans would be exasperated if a state medal contender got hurt at Districts and couldn't go to regionals or Hershey.
it's a matter of perspective.
you're ok with college guys passing the buck for a couple more weeks b/c the rules allow it, and that's what you're used to.
but those rules exist absolutely no where else in the sport.
You are absolutely correct ( As usual
). One thing I learned early as a teacher and parent: "Why do kids do what they do?" Because they can. Plain and simple truth. If it wasn't allowed.......they would adapt.PS: We should get some sleep
Everyone always talks about injuries that usually happen weeks in advance when discussing the issues with not wrestling in the conference championship. But what if someone gets a really nasty 24 hr bug or a case of food poisoning and just can’t wrestle for a few days but feels fine after that? (These things have happened). Do we just say tough break but their season is now over? The at large bids are also meant to cover those kinds of cases. I don’t know how it can be avoided without doing someone an injustice.
Sleep is for wussies! 😁PS: We should get some sleep
That happened to a kid at our HS this year at regionals. Was home for Hershey with multiple wins over kids that ended up on the stand.
Tough break but everybody knew the deal
That's not entirely true. World team qualifier matches have been postponed because one competitor was dinged up.
But you're right about the PIAA part -- it happens every year, and nobody bats an eye other than to say what a shame for that kid.
Which scenario would be the most unfair, one in which Bubba Wilson falls short of qualifying or one in which the championship is decided without a 3-time returning champ in the field.?
I favor the status quo or perhaps a few tweaks, but definitely not #1. If the goal is to identify the best 33 wrestlers at each weight, then each wrestler's body of work during the season can't be ignored in favor of a single weekend qualifier.
It's never going to be perfect, but the fact that Manning has to reach all the way back to 2017 to find support for his rant tells me it's not broken.
I favor the status quo or perhaps a few tweaks, but definitely not #1. If the goal is to identify the best 33 wrestlers at each weight, then each wrestler's body of work during the season can't be ignored in favor of a single weekend qualifier.
It's never going to be perfect, but the fact that Manning has to reach all the way back to 2017 to find support for his rant tells me it's not broken.
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That simply is not true. Talk about hyperbole. I explained above exactly why I think it is ok, and it has nothing to do with bias associated with existing rules. I’m not the only one of that opinion. Again, your philosophy on this is very narrow-minded.
We want the best at Nationals in their best shape possible, under a system that has safety nets built in to help ensure fairness. The current system has that. I would bet that qualification for Nationals riding almost entirely on a single event is not what most in the wrestling community (wrestlers, families, coaches, fans) wants.
The only injustice with the current rules that allow Carter to wrestle is that #34 doesn't wrestle. That bothers me far far less than a 3x champ not wrestling. The NCAAs are supposed to showcase our best in the sport so that the sport can shine on a national stage. The people making the rules need to keep that in mind at all times. I feel the current rules are fair.
I think I need reminded on the whole conference allocation thing. Why don't simply pull the top 33 after conferences. Good place to take some steps up and/or down. Guess this gets into how do you rate the 20 thru 33 seeds... back into another argument...
It's 100% true. if it wasn't, you would have started a thread long ago on how the PA post season is unfair.
What we have now is a bastardization of system trying to balance a season with a weekend. I'm advocating for de facto results as opposed to 'what people think'.
^^^ This is what you think. There isn't proof of that at the conference tournament. Not in their current condition. (we also don't WANT to see forfeits at the conference championships).
This isn't about Carter Starocci.
It's about Dustin Schlatter, Darrion Caldwell, Nick Suriano.
The 4 at large selections at 174 were all ranked higher in the coaches poll than Wilson so it's not like he got ripped off.
If the regular season doesn't matter and making NCAA is entirely dependent on your conference tournament then why bother having a regular season?
If Purdue basketball team all got sick and had to forfeit in the B1G tournament why shouldn't they still get an at large bid. Or if UConn or Houston got upset in their 1st round game does it negate their 29-3 season? Of course not. That's what at-large bids are for.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
If Purdue basketball team all got sick and had to forfeit in the B1G tournament why shouldn't they still get an at large bid. Or if UConn or Houston got upset in their 1st round game does it negate their 29-3 season? Of course not. That's what at-large bids are for.
If it ain't broke don't fix it.
And I don’t think many would consider the #34 not wrestling an injustice.. I would think most would consider that fair and just.
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