Should PSU Basketball move back to Rec Hall?
- Thread starter dcf4psu
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FWIW - I don't think its a huge hairy deal.......but the idea that it WOULD BE a "huge hairy deal" for PSU to "get back" the money that was stolen from it is silly (even if you create false premises to make it seem so).
Just to illustrate, and then I am going to exit.....lest any circle-jerk ensue (what's the odds on THAT happening?
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If the B1G brought in $36 Million per year of "divisible" bowl money in each year that they held back the PSU share (so lets say PSU had $3,000,000 stolen from them per year for two years, and each other member school received $3,000,000 per year......I don't know the exact figures, and it doesn't matter to illustrate the point):
Lets say next year the B1G brings in $42,000,000 of "divisible" bowl money (I'll assume that all 14 members are now entitled to "full shares"....though I do not know that for a fact....but, again, it doesn't matter wrt the illustration).
Before doling out the booty of $42,000,000....the B1G should portion out the $6,000,000 of stolen revenue they owe to PSU - and forward that to PSU (making them "whole" for the years in which funds were stolen from them) - and then allocate out the remaining $36,000,000 equally to the 14 member schools.
This would make the situation "whole".....PSU, and every other member of the conference, would now have their equal allocation of the Bowl revenue pot. (assuming PSU wouldn't insist on also receiving interest on the stolen money
And the fact that the B1G decided to steal money from PSU - and give it to "charities" (I believe it is your contention that the B1G did give this money to "charities", and I won't argue the point with you) becomes a cost burden that would be shared equally by all member schools (including PSU)....and all member schools would now be "equally treated" with respect to the allocation of all Bowl revenues.
It ain't even hard.
It's as simple as falling off a log......unless one DOESN'T WANT TO understand it.
Of course dividing the money up is a simple math problem. Anyone can do the math (BTW - we're talking $13M not $3M - but as you said, that's irrelevant).
What you don't seem to understand is that before you can just hand Penn State $13M, you are going to have to get the other 13 school presidents to each agree lose over a million dollars worth of their monies. Why would they ever agree to that? Out of the kindness of their hearts? I don't think so. There is still a general consensus among the other schools that Penn State did something wrong. The Presidents are not going to decide to give up $1M each just because some people in the PSU fan base want the money back.
IIRC every other school took PSU's money (split equally among them) to distribute to charities they chose in their states. I don't remember any of them refusing the money. At the end of the day everyone would be whole with the same money amount distributed per school over the years.
So if Penn State had a roster of 10 year old girls and lost a game at Rec Hall by 80 points, you would come to the conclusion that Rec Hall doesn't provide a home court advantage?
The home court doesn't matter if you don't have the roster. All those seasons you mentioned, I'm going to guess Penn State wasn't anyone's preseason favorite.
That's correct - and we'd be in the exact same boat in the Big Ten. We're not going to be anyone's preseason favorite and playing in Rec Hall isn't suddenly going to make us contenders. We need better Jimmies and Joes and playing in Rec Hall isn't something recruits would be enthralled about.
Dan Dakich during the ESPN broadcast of Penn State's game Saturday said he believes Penn State will be among the top 3 teams in the Big Ten in the next couple years with this core group.
When did it become "stylish" to require that thieves "want to" give you your money back? Before you demand the return of what was stolen from you?What you don't seem to understand is that before you can just hand Penn State $13M, you are going to have to get the other 13 school presidents to each agree lose over a million dollars worth of their monies. Why would they ever agree to that? Out of the kindness of their hearts? I don't think so.
Words........Fail.
Or, have you forgotten that the B1G acts only based upon the direction and approval of the University Presidents?
Good God.......It takes an idiot whisperer
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The only comparison that takes all unrelated variables is to look at the difference between home and away winning percentage in Rec Hall vs BJC. I don't have access to this data, unfortunately.
Do you actually think playing in Rec Hall is going to win more games? Did you miss the Princeton game where Penn State squandered a 20 point lead in the second half in 2013 to lose a game in Rec Hall. I am sure the 4,509 and the 4,803 really helped Penn State beat power houses Louisiana Monroe and Canisius.
If Rec Hall was such a help then Penn State would have had more than 1 NCAA tournament appearance from 1966 until 1996 when they left the place.
I'd be willing to bet that the numbers for the Armory would beat both Rec Hall & the BJC.
I think you are wrong... it may not work for the long haul, but a electric, filled to capacity rec hall would be a lot more attractive than a 1/3rd filled BJC. This would only work if you held a carrot out to recruits saying that Penn State would be building a better basketball venue.
LOL
Actually - - - might want "those numbers" with the same teams competing for both the Home and Visitor's sides in each venue? Ya' think?
Which, just as obviously, makes it a simply theoretical and subjective exercise.
Alas
When did it become "stylish" to require that thieves "want to" give you your money back? Before you demand the return of what was stolen from you?
Or, have you forgotten that the B1G acts only based upon the direction and approval of the University Presidents?
Good God.......It takes an idiot whisperer
Like I said, despite what you may think, the general consensus is that Penn State's administration did do "something" wrong. I'm sure the President's still believe that they were justified in fining PSU. Unless you can convince them otherwise, the money isn't coming back. You might think they stole it, they sure as hell don't - and it's their opinion, not yours, that matters.
I knew you couldn't keep your promise to stay away. You took the bait."....lest any circle-jerk ensue (what's the odds on THAT happening?
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If, and I say IF, the schools received our share of the bowl money and KEPT it, I would agree with you. But they were given it with the caveat that it had to go to charity. I'm assuming they did as instructed. Therefore, they in essence never received "extra" money that went into their budget. Therefore, paying us back requires they dig into their share of the money they were entitled to, not any "extra" monies that they didn't deserve.When did it become "stylish" to require that thieves "want to" give you your money back? Before you demand the return of what was stolen from you?
Or, have you forgotten that the B1G acts only based upon the direction and approval of the University Presidents?
Good God.......It takes an idiot whisperer
Good God... and you're teaching finance?
Thankfully, i never had any students as pathologically stupid as you......otherwise the efforts would have been moot
The schools never saw any of the money. They designated the charities that were to receive the funds and the Big Ten sent the checks.
How about using the approach that Villanova uses. I don't know the exact formula they use to decide the venue, but it seems that for most non-conference games and mid-week conference games that will not draw a ton of people, they use the on campus Pavillion. For the bigger drawing games, they move downtown and use the bigger Wells Fargo Center. St. John's does something similar with their on campus arena and MSG. Why couldn't Penn State use a similiar approach with Rec Hall and the BJC?
So taking to recruits to see a 1/2 filled Rec Hall is more attractive. A place which doesn't even have a locker room facility for basketball teams? You completely neglect the fact the last two games in rec hall weren't close to being filled.
Are you going to write a check or the several millions to renovate and expand the facility to add locker rooms and other support facilities for the basketball team? Using the other sports locker room, transporting the court, and hoops is fine for a one off game but it won't work for playing a half schedule.
Even though Rec Hall is a near twin to the Palestra - all comfy-cozy and a nightmare for visiting teams, Penn State has had a middling basketball existence since forever. Moving back to Rec Hall isn't suddenly going to make the program better -- better players will. To attract those better players, you better have facilities that stack up against the competition, and Rec Hall would never meet their expectations.
That is such a bad argument.
Playing in Rec Hall doesn't guarantee a 100% winning percentage and no blown leads, but Rec Hall is a louder and more intimidating environment than the BJC.
If Vegas put out a point spread for Penn State/Minnesota this weekend at the BJC and Penn State/Minnesota at Rec Hall, Penn State would be s bigger favorite in Rec Hall. 10000% guaranteed.
If you don't think playing in Rec Hall is worth any points to Penn State you might as well argue there is no such thing as a home court advantage.
Playing in Rec Hall is about playing the percentages not guaranteeing wins.
What previous teams accomplished at Rec Hall isn't relevant. Relative to the completion, Penn State is closing the talent gap more than it ever has.
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I'm curious. How much of a difference do you think that it would make. Half a point? A full point? 5 points?
Those players that are closing the talent gap wouldn't be at Penn State if basketball was still in Rec Hall.
How much more intimidating is a half full rec hall compared to a 1/3 full Jordan Center? How electric will it be if Penn State is drawing 4k in the building? People make the false assumption that it going to sell out every game and be packed. The last two games played there has about 2,000 empty seats.
Those were not attractive games against good teams. Also, its a supply and demand problem. If I can't get tickets to see MSU, then maybe I get tickets to see a lesser opponent. Right now, anyone can buy tickets for whatever game they want, or season tickets for that matter. There should always be more demand than there is supply...
They had more than that. Actually there were 2000 unsold seats plus a bunch more that were sold but people just didn't bother to attend. Rec Hall probably wasn't even half full for the Thursday game.
REC HALL.....
ESPN’s Lisa Salters And Her Penn State Connection 0
By Derek Bannister on January 9, 2017 at 4:17 am Athletics, Features
Penn State has a plethora of famous and successful alumni. From Mark Parker, the CEO of Nike, to Lara Spencer, a host of Good Morning America, many of Penn State’s hundreds of thousands of alumni are household names.
Add to that list Lisa Salters – a staple of the Monday Night Football team on ESPN – who played guard for the Lady Lions back in the day. Salters has covered more than 75 games for ESPN over the course of five years, and is a widely recognized part of ESPN’s primetime football coverage.
Salters graduated from Penn State in 1988 with a degree in broadcast journalism and played for the women’s basketball team from 1986-87. In fact, she is the shortest player to ever play for Penn State, coming in at just 5’2″.
Like many Penn State students and alumni, she hails from “just outside of Philly.” Salters is a native of King of Prussia, so covering Philadelphia Eagles games means visiting home and, of course, visiting the King of Prussia Mall. She’s not so different from us after all.
CLICK ON PIC TO ENLARGE
ESPN’s Lisa Salters And Her Penn State Connection 0
By Derek Bannister on January 9, 2017 at 4:17 am Athletics, Features
Penn State has a plethora of famous and successful alumni. From Mark Parker, the CEO of Nike, to Lara Spencer, a host of Good Morning America, many of Penn State’s hundreds of thousands of alumni are household names.
Add to that list Lisa Salters – a staple of the Monday Night Football team on ESPN – who played guard for the Lady Lions back in the day. Salters has covered more than 75 games for ESPN over the course of five years, and is a widely recognized part of ESPN’s primetime football coverage.
Salters graduated from Penn State in 1988 with a degree in broadcast journalism and played for the women’s basketball team from 1986-87. In fact, she is the shortest player to ever play for Penn State, coming in at just 5’2″.
Like many Penn State students and alumni, she hails from “just outside of Philly.” Salters is a native of King of Prussia, so covering Philadelphia Eagles games means visiting home and, of course, visiting the King of Prussia Mall. She’s not so different from us after all.
CLICK ON PIC TO ENLARGE
There were virtually no expectations for last year's team and those games were played against obscure midmajor teams.
You move the team to Rec Hall for the home court advantage you enjoy against Big Ten teams, not Louisiana Monroe.
With where the program is today, Penn State would sell out the rest of the Big Ten schedule in Rec Hall.
Playing Conference games in Rec Hall is - I believe - a non-starter
Some of the pre-conference games - IMO - is another deal altogether
No shi* Sherlock. And we'd be giving up tens of thousands of dollars in lost revenue for virtually every game even though we sold out Rec Hall. Rec Hall seats 6000 for basketball. In the eight home Big Ten we had last year, we drew 63,000 fans. Had those games been played at Rec Hall, the max we could have drawn would have been 48,000. That's an extra 15,000 fans. At a conservative $12 a game, you're talking $180,000 in lost revenue - and we're not even factoring in concession sales or parking fees.
Yup and that's part of the problem. In general, Central Pa fans would much rather watch wrestling than basketball. We just don't have a good knowledgeable fan base that you can count on packing the arena game after game like most of the other Big Ten schools.
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