Should we be worried about Cenzo?

[Ranger Dan]

I don’t think it is evidence that Joseph isn’t number 1 at 165. I think this tells us that Marinelli is a legit top 5 guy and may be a great competitor to challenge Joseph for the next couple of years. It will be fun to see what happens at 165 in the Big Ten championships this year.

 

[Ranger Dan]

it was a 3 points of contact takedown, not a guy is on his belly takedown

Aren’t these both worth 2 points?

 

[dunkej01]

I am going to walk the dog, I'll rewatch the match on DVR. I don't remember at any point thinking Marinelli wasn't offensive, etc. I'll check again after the walk.

He was offensive, especially when you watch next to his matches against other top competition. Bull brought his A game, and he was prepared for the match. Kudos to him, but I still take VJo in a rematch and would give good odds on it too.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Aren’t these both worth 2 points?

Certainly is worth two points, but its a not a take down that indicates to me dominance etc. Its worth 2 points. I was accused of only looking at the box score so I watched the match again. The box score makes it look closer than it actually was.

 

[pish69]

Certainly is worth two points, but its a not a take down that indicates to me dominance etc. Its worth 2 points. I was accused of only looking at the box score so I watched the match again. The box score makes it look closer than it actually was.

I’ll make it simple for you. Did Bull get close to ANY take downs other than the failed throw?

Did Cenzo have two take downs?

Do you believe Maranelli could have taken down Cenzo one time in the last minute if Cenzo didn’t go big? To add to this he would have had to taken him down twice.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Did Bull get close to ANY take downs other than the failed throw?--nope, but if you watch the match (crazy concept), when VJ went overhooks EVERY time but this one, AM got out. This time he embraced. Maybe it wasn't a failed throw but an actually successful one by AM???

Did Cenzo have two take downs?--- yes, but he also gave up backs on the same move he hit and couldn't get backs on. The first takedown isn't repeatable. Straight on double with zero set-up against AM? Good luck scoring like that a second time.

Do you believe Maranelli could have taken down Cenzo one time in the last minute if Cenzo didn’t go big? To add to this he would have had to taken him down twice.[/QUOTE]--- If we are removing trips from counting score, then VJs trips can't count either (goose meet gander). So therefore, VJ got one TD and it was one he won't score again on a guy like AM. He also wasn't very active during the match (in all fairness no one looks active in AM matches).

We can play the spin game all day every day.

 

[LumbeeIndian]

Didn’t someone give you 5 to 1 odds on the next meeting between the two. If I were as confident as you I’d empty out my saving account. How much are you placing on it?

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

--- If we are removing trips from counting score, then VJs trips can't count either (goose meet gander). So therefore, VJ got one TD and it was one he won't score again on a guy like AM. He also wasn't very active during the match (in all fairness no one looks active in AM matches).

We can play the spin game all day every day.

Didn’t someone give you 5 to 1 odds on the next meeting between the two. If I were as confident as you I’d empty out my saving account. How much are you placing on it?[/QUOTE]

I didn't see that... $10 to $50? I'll donate to NLWC (the training club, not team) and if AM wins, they donate to SKWC? Low stakes action wherein I can talk crap (or have crap talked to me) is perfect!

 

[pish69]

How about a sig bet Banjo? If Cenzo wins next meeting you must get rid of your handle and change it to BoxScoreBanjo. If Maranelli wins I will change my handle to something you’d like?

Bet?

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

How about a sig bet Banjo? If Cenzo wins next meeting you must get rid of your handle and change it to BoxScoreBanjo. If Maranelli wins I will change my handle to something you’d like?

Bet?

Damn, I gotta come up with something good cause BoxScoreBanjo is def. good lol.

I can do that, keep it up for one season? but if its an injury default, lets just call it a scratch? Don't wanna benefit from injury. Seems like bad karma.

Wait get rid of means delete? Or change? I am not tech savvy. Sorry.

 

[PSU Mike]

So glad to read all the folks here who get it. that cenzo match is why we are 6 out of the last 7 and others are sniffing the podium.

As my bad ass was out shoveling snow for the 6th time in 7 days I was thinking just that. I think SOME of the HR types are more measured in their response to the victory because they are starting to understand this too. Nick Lee wanted a major and got sloppy. That’s a soph and a freshman with that attitude, so it’s not going away.

 

[pish69]

Damn, I gotta come up with something good cause BoxScoreBanjo is def. good lol.

I can do that, keep it up for one season? but if its an injury default, lets just call it a scratch? Don't wanna benefit from injury. Seems like bad karma.

Wait get rid of means delete? Or change? I am not tech savvy. Sorry.

I would say we keep it till start of next season.
Just create another account and use that one. You don’t have to delete one you have but you have to use BoxScoreBanjo until start of next season.

I agree injury default don’t count.

Bet? You can take your time coming up with name for me. Yours is already in the books!

Nova like calling me Sir Pish, I’d be happy with that one

 

[tikk10]

In any rematch, give me the guy who was getting the takedowns over the guy who nailed one big move. All credit to Bull because that was his initiative, but Cenzo didn't need to give him that opportunity, but apparently welcomed it rather than tried to prevent it, which would've been easy enough to do given the time remaining.

 

[pish69]

Nick Lee wanted a major and got sloppy. That’s a soph and a freshman with that attitude, so it’s not going away.

Great point. Nick Lee was up 11-6 with riding time and got a little reckless going for major.

He gives up the takedown to win 11-8. Guys like BoxScoreBanjo thinks it was close 3 point win. The PSU fans know better. We appreciate the fact we don’t sit on regular decisions. Always going for bonus.

 

[PSUcup1]

Didn’t someone give you 5 to 1 odds on the next meeting between the two. If I were as confident as you I’d empty out my saving account. How much are you placing on it?

I didn't see that... $10 to $50? I'll donate to NLWC (the training club, not team) and if AM wins, they donate to SKWC? Low stakes action wherein I can talk crap (or have crap talked to me) is perfect![/QUOTE]

It was me who offered the bet.

I can agree to those terms if that works

 

[lockhavenlion3]

Marinelli needed two takedowns to win and does not win that match if Joseph plays it safe. How many wrestlers would have went for that while winning? Crazy is that match does not really bother me. I know VJ made a mistake, but that’s what is awesome about PSU wrestlers is that go after it!! Now time to give Marinelli some credit. He is a stud who never gave up and made him pay for his mistake. Congrats on a big win.

bo, two years ago.

 

[07mantle]

interesting match at 165 ...my take away is both VJ and Maranelli got some mutual respect for each other ...at the start of the match Maranelli ....with the out of left field club to the head and then tries to go physical, upper body with VJ ....and the next thing it looks like VJ is using Maranelli like a divining rod looking for water and Alex is looking quickly for the nearest back door exit... later in the match VJ tries to do the same thing, misses the leg on the trip and Maranelli comes out with advantage. I know a lot of Iowa folks felt AM was going to win...however I doubt they actually saw him winning quite in this fashion... great win for Alex and surely a confidence builder. On the same note, VJ wrestled at the end of the match like we have grown accustomed to in that the majority of the PSU guys will keep wrestling for points ...had he gone conservative we likely wouldn't have two pages of comments about his match. I like a comment earlier in this thread that all we really know after last night is that VJ is still right at or near the top and that Maranelli is for real and definitely in the top 5 or better.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Damn, I gotta come up with something good cause BoxScoreBanjo is def. good lol.

I can do that, keep it up for one season? but if its an injury default, lets just call it a scratch? Don't wanna benefit from injury. Seems like bad karma.

I would say we keep it till start of next season.
Just create another account and use that one. You don’t have to delete one you have but you have to use BoxScoreBanjo until start of next season.

I agree injury default don’t count.

Bet? You can take your time coming up with name for me. Yours is already in the books!

Nova like calling me Sir Pish, I’d be happy with that one

Its a bet! I will come up with something good but def. need time.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

I didn't see that... $10 to $50? I'll donate to NLWC (the training club, not team) and if AM wins, they donate to SKWC? Low stakes action wherein I can talk crap (or have crap talked to me) is perfect!

It was me who offered the bet.

I can agree to those terms if that works[/QUOTE]

I'll take that bet too. Its for charity, so I don't mind one bit if I lose money on this. If it grows wrestling its worth it.

Action closed on Casino Banjo.

 

[RoarLions1]

Not concerned one bit. Regular season loss, and a great learning experience. Congrats to Marinelli, but give me Cenzo in the post-season. Too many raw emotions the day after the dual. All will be fine.

 

[Ja1339]

If Spencer doesn't have the shirt pulled and Nolf doesn't get hurt the shutout would have been in play. If so is Cenzo taking less risk?

 

[Hotshoe]

Yea, Marinelli didnt have any take downs, until he took VJ down! I guess that doesnt count.

How many back points did VJ have? How many back points did Marinelli have? Can play this game all day long.

Dude, you're flat out wrong, and you obviously know it. VJ was up 5-2, understand? He could have coasted and won easily. He missed the trip. Watch the video, as it's plain as day. So what?

 

[Hotshoe]

Marinelli was not setting that up for 4-5 seconds! It was VJ that initiated the throw and AM was able to sag his hips back and down and keep his body lock! It was a nice counter and he deserves credit for the win! He won the match but he did not out wrestle VJ. Vincenzo was up 5-2, had scored 2 TD to 0 and never looked in danger until that throw attempt went bad!

Holy cow! Somebody actually watched the match!

 

[Hotshoe]

Just rewatched... .

First period: Marinelli, clear aggressor. He took 2 full shots, 2 half shots to VJs 1 shot and one 1/2 shot. Yes VJ scored on his full shot, but never got Marinelli down to the mat (it was a 3 points of contact takedown, not a guy is on his belly takedown) VJ wasn't interested in collar ties, didn't aggressively ride. Simply tried to use overhooks to throw a guy nicknamed "bull". Box score not indicative of period's action.

Second period:
VJ starts down, out in 30 seconds. Marinelli made him earn the escape with multiple mat returns. 2 Shots for AM, reatatck by joseph with the trip. hits it. Escape AM. Heavy hands through end of period.

THird:

AM down, out in 15 seconds. VJ goes back to over hooks, AM bear hugs, wins the hips battle.. gets trip and back points. Escape. Now 9-6. 3 late Shots by VJ while AM runs out last minute.

Yeah, I wasn't wrong. I rewatched that match and AM was clearly WAY more aggressive up until the last minute. I didn't see VJ try to set up an offense except for trips, even on offense. His take down didn't come from a set up, it was a shot from space.

LMAO. Who had the takedowns? Shot from space? Ahhhh, you don't like double leg takedowns now? Marinelli did absolutely nothing till the very end. The only points he had, well into the third were escapes. VJ took a chance and didn't even need to. Give me a break. I assure you, VJ will never have that happen again. VJ missed the trip, that happens, game over. Clearly, you didn't watch what you said you did. I have. I have it taped. Who got the takedowns? Yeah, I already know. Try again.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

Holy cow! Somebody actually watched the match!

That was the only time Marinelli didn't try to get out of the overhooks and instead embraced them. It looked to me like marinelli executed his throw. Not that VJ failed at his if that makes sense.

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

LMAO. Who had the takedowns? Shot from space? Ahhhh, you don't like double leg takedowns now? Marinelli did absolutely nothing till the very end. The only points he had, well into the third were escapes. VJ took a chance and didn't even need to. Give me a break. I assure you, VJ will never have that happen again. VJ missed the trip, that happens, game over. Clearly, you didn't watch what you said you did. I have. I have it taped. Who got the takedowns? Yeah, I already know. Try again.

I didn't say I didn't like doubles. I said shooting from space w/o a set-up isn't repeatable against a guy as good as marinelli.

It also didn't look like VJ took a chance with his throw. It looked like AM tried to hit his own throw.. Again, there were multiple "VJ throws in overhooks" moments and in all but ONE AM tried to avoid it. The "failed throw" as you call it looked like a pre-orchastrated move based on his actions in this scenario vs the previous few VJ tried.

Again, if you're not gonna count the trip AM executed (yes, he executed it) then you can't count VJ's and the match was decided based on a takedown from space with no set-up which I don't think is repeatable.

The real question it seems is does it look like AM was going for that move? Based on how the overhooks were defended previously in the match, yes, I think he was.

We'll find out at the next meeting since I did bet 2 forum members on the next outcome!

 

[WildTurk]

The Bull is strong! Doesn't get enough credit for his throw..

 

[Lyco1990]

The Bull is strong! Doesn't get enough credit for his throw..

What throw? Congradulations to him for being prepared for the inside trip. Great counter, no throw involved.

 

[Hotshoe]

I didn't say I didn't like doubles. I said shooting from space w/o a set-up isn't repeatable against a guy as good as marinelli.

It also didn't look like VJ took a chance with his throw. It looked like AM tried to hit his own throw.. Again, there were multiple "VJ throws in overhooks" moments and in all but ONE AM tried to avoid it. The "failed throw" as you call it looked like a pre-orchastrated move based on his actions in this scenario vs the previous few VJ tried.

Again, if you're not gonna count the trip AM executed (yes, he executed it) then you can't count VJ's and the match was decided based on a takedown from space with no set-up which I don't think is repeatable.

The real question it seems is does it look like AM was going for that move? Based on how the overhooks were defended previously in the match, yes, I think he was.

We'll find out at the next meeting since I did bet 2 forum members on the next outcome!

This is reality, and I don't bullshit. Please get this. Lee dominated. See how easy truth is? Marinelli is fortunate VJ took a chance he didn't need to. Marinelli never got a takedown in 2 and 1/2 periods. He won. So be it. He won't again. "VJ relaxed too much." Cael Sanderson.

 

[07mantle]

The Bull is strong! Doesn't get enough credit for his throw..

don’t think PSU people aren’t aware that AM is strong ... agree with Lyco ....he was ready when VJ tried inside trip ... and countered to his advantage ... two very strong young men out there ... did you notice in 1st period when AM tried to go upper body right off the bat and it looked like Vincenzo was using AM like a divining rod looking for water and AM basically saying ... this is not where I want tobe

 

[minnhawkeye]

Can't believe some one would start a thread like this.
Only one match and they could meet 2 more times this year..
No reason to even think or have any concern over VJ and what occured last nite..
Bull one and I give him the credit due.

 

[PSU Mike]

don’t think PSU people aren’t aware that AM is strong ... agree with Lyco ....he was ready when VJ tried inside trip ... and countered to his advantage ... two very strong young men out there ... did you notice in 1st period when AM tried to go upper body right off the bat and it looked like Vincenzo was using AM like a divining rod looking for water and AM basically saying ... this is not where I want tobe

I was surprised Cenzo had as much left in the 3rd after that.

 

[WildTurk]

don’t think PSU people aren’t aware that AM is strong ... agree with Lyco ....he was ready when VJ tried inside trip ... and countered to his advantage ... two very strong young men out there ... did you notice in 1st period when AM tried to go upper body right off the bat and it looked like Vincenzo was using AM like a divining rod looking for water and AM basically saying ... this is not where I want tobe

Yes i saw that. Very nice takedown by Cenzo. Alex certainly returned the favor when it mattered. Where you don't want to be is on your back late in the match.

 

[07mantle]

I was surprised Cenzo had as much left in the 3rd after that.

that crossed my mine also ... that had to take a little fuel out of the tank

 

[07mantle]

Yes i saw that. Very nice takedown by Cenzo. Alex certainly returned the favor when it mattered. Where you don't want to be is on your back late in the match.

touché ....neither one wants to try to impose their will without there being some opening there

 

[BanjoSaysWoof]

This is reality, and I don't bullshit. Please get this. Lee dominated. See how easy truth is? Marinelli is fortunate VJ took a chance he didn't need to. Marinelli never got a takedown in 2 and 1/2 periods. He won. So be it. He won't again. "VJ relaxed too much." Cael Sanderson.

Let's recap the "VJ puts in overs" situations, and how AM wrestles in those situations:

2:54-2:30 in period 1.... AM tries to get the heck out of there. Circled out, didn't push back.

1:00 in period 2.... VJ hits his trip. AM tried and failed to get out of it.

1:30 in 3rd-- Marinelli wraps his arms around Joseph, Sucks him and, and is clearly the initiator of that move. VJ didn't slip up or try something. Someone tried something on him and that person hit it.

I don't see the "unnecessary chance" you see. I see Marinelli go for a bear hug and hit a trip. VJ didn't "take a chance there"... Marinelli took the chance.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

The title of this thread is absolutely ridiculous. It's nearly impossible to go undefeated for the entire season. Most eventual NCAA champs don't, including Cenzo, Hall, and Bo last year. Zain was taken into OT by Sorenson.

 

[JBott]

That was the only time Marinelli didn't try to get out of the overhooks and instead embraced them. It looked to me like marinelli executed his throw. Not that VJ failed at his if that makes sense.

This is not meant to be disrespectful in any way, but to say that TD's where the opponent lands on all fours is less impressive then a TD where the opponent ends up flat and also say that AM " initiated" the throw shows how much you still need to learn about wrestling! Again, AM deserves the victory, but he DID NOT out wrestle VJ!

 

[JBott]

Certainly is worth two points, but its a not a take down that indicates to me dominance etc. Its worth 2 points. I was accused of only looking at the box score so I watched the match again. The box score makes it look closer than it actually was.

Lol!

 

[LDandy]

Not worried in the least. Cenzo was completely in control the entire match and had he played things a little safer he would have won by a comfortable decision. Instead he tried to go upper body against a really strong kid, lost his balance and ended up in trouble. I like that he fought off his back and did not get pinned. I strongly suspect Cenzo will watch film of the match, work on some things in the room and likely handle Marinelli the next time they match up.