After Coon beat Snyder and tossed Superman with a body lock, Cenzo is probably feeling better.
Should we be worried about Cenzo?
- Thread starter GogglesPaizano
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1. Post something like, Should Ohio State be worried about Kyle Snyder?
2. Sit back and wait for the clicks to pour in.
3. Profit!
2. Sit back and wait for the clicks to pour in.
3. Profit!
I think that is most accurate. Gets sucked in by a strong Marinelli. Watched frame by frame.
The picture tells the whole story. If you don't sweep the leg on an inside trip, your dead. Marinelli maintains a strong post with the left leg, one could argue he is executing an outside trip. Cenzo had no leverage so he can't execute the twist to top on the way down.
More importantly it was a tactical error at that point in the match where the risk reward just to high especially against someone as strong as the bull. Truth be told I think the bull suckered him and was waiting for it.
On the good side VJ controlled the whole match to that point. Bull displayed great defense but is not the superior wrestler. Cenzo is smooth power and athleticism. I am 100% confident he will adjust and win from here out. I really wish someone had thrown the brick in the 1st period as I think VJ was robbed of 2 back points on his first inside trip - another reason why you don't go back to the well twice in the same match. As soon as he had his double overs in I yelled at the TV 'don't do it'.
That said I will go out on a limb. I think Marinelli is a bad matchup for Imar. We may see Marinelli as the #2 behind VJ in March. I really hope the seeding after big tens puts Marinelli and Imar on the same side of the bracket.
More importantly it was a tactical error at that point in the match where the risk reward just to high especially against someone as strong as the bull. Truth be told I think the bull suckered him and was waiting for it.
On the good side VJ controlled the whole match to that point. Bull displayed great defense but is not the superior wrestler. Cenzo is smooth power and athleticism. I am 100% confident he will adjust and win from here out. I really wish someone had thrown the brick in the 1st period as I think VJ was robbed of 2 back points on his first inside trip - another reason why you don't go back to the well twice in the same match. As soon as he had his double overs in I yelled at the TV 'don't do it'.
That said I will go out on a limb. I think Marinelli is a bad matchup for Imar. We may see Marinelli as the #2 behind VJ in March. I really hope the seeding after big tens puts Marinelli and Imar on the same side of the bracket.
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Hey, it was an exciting match.
Cenzo kept looking big the entire match. Tip your hat to Bull, but Cenzo got cocky and he will adjust.
That’s probably the most excitement Iowa has seen in one of their midweight matches in decades, with their usual “Head-Hands-Push-HE’S STALLLLING” Crap.
Cenzo kept looking big the entire match. Tip your hat to Bull, but Cenzo got cocky and he will adjust.
That’s probably the most excitement Iowa has seen in one of their midweight matches in decades, with their usual “Head-Hands-Push-HE’S STALLLLING” Crap.
Who makes a unbeaten 3x B1G Champ a 2 seed in the conference tourney ?
Willie had some flat Budweiser and stale Copenhagen.
Willie had some flat Budweiser and stale Copenhagen.
Willie likes to occasionally stir some mud into clear waters.
Clickity-Click
Clickity-Click
Clickity-Click
Clickity-Click
Clickity-Click
Clickity-Click
Iowa sent out Kaleb Young against Illinois
Lewis and White ducked IMar. Not his fault.
Imar 1 seed
Lewis and White ducked IMar. Not his fault.
Imar 1 seed
This is exactly why he freely admits he's not a journalist. Personally, I appreciate that he is so upfront about it.
B1G primarily uses matches from the B1G dual schedule for seeding criteria. IMAR is 8-0 with 7 bonus wins in B1G duals. Marinelli is 7-0 with 2 bonus wins in B1G duals. IMar will get the number 1 seed.
Cenzo is fine and this loss is going to turn out to be a blessing in disguise as he seemed a little over confident at times this year. Confidence is good, over confidence is why he lost the match.
To say that Marinelli had any of that planned is laughable. He didn't and wouldn't have smelled a takedown had VJ stayed in good position and finished the match that way. Give it to Marinelli/Brands as they definitely had worked on overhook defense, it showed throughout the match, and they came out on top of a Cenzo induced move.
Call a spade a spade. Marinelli is one dimensional with basically no offense.. Club hard and collar tie and hope the other guy makes a mistake. He is tough as nails and will be hard to score on but I'll take the guy that goes for a feet-to-back up 5-2 in the 3rd any day over the stall and squat method.
To say that Marinelli had any of that planned is laughable. He didn't and wouldn't have smelled a takedown had VJ stayed in good position and finished the match that way. Give it to Marinelli/Brands as they definitely had worked on overhook defense, it showed throughout the match, and they came out on top of a Cenzo induced move.
Call a spade a spade. Marinelli is one dimensional with basically no offense.. Club hard and collar tie and hope the other guy makes a mistake. He is tough as nails and will be hard to score on but I'll take the guy that goes for a feet-to-back up 5-2 in the 3rd any day over the stall and squat method.
I'm not sure any one is saying Marinelli wasn't the aggressor (or at least relatively aggressive) throughout the match. Just that, despite all his attempts, he was unable to get through Cenzo's defense and score an offensive point (or even get relatively close) prior to Cenzo stepping in with the overhook.
I for one was definitely impressed with Marinelli. He wrestled a good, smart 7 minute match.
Cenzo did not.
I think you'll see a lot of PSU fanbois (which are people who only view things through the prism of PSU good, everyone else bad) claiming the opposite of what you wrote Its why I just got off this thread. Love to talk wrestling, but sometimes its like talking politics. People like who they like and all the facts in the world won't change their mind.
IMO--no need to worry about Cenzo--he pushed the upper body to much and got caught by a good wrestler--he has not lost that battle all year, so good timing for this to happen--next meeting with Marinelli will be different if he wrestles smart
Who do I like? Please tell me oh wise one?
Half your board thinks your guy went for a throw when he actually was the one being thrown and it was set-up. Video and interviews confirm it, but hey, go PSU!!
I don't think I've ever dropped to my knees to worship at the alter of Rutgers, the NY Giants, or any other team I support.... that seems to be the MO of a lot of posters here though. I am not saying all, but the people who think "Oh, Marinelli just got lucky" have no clue what they are talking about... AM was ranked the number 3 P4P wrestler in the country in HS and 1/2 your board can't figure out that he is good enough to beat someone in a precious blue singlet.
I agree which is why I almost never bother with this type of discussion/argument, however, this is a case of the pot calling the kettle black as you are doing the same thing you are accusing others of. Just saying.
Banjo, I've had good discussions in the past with you and think you genuinely bring a good devil's advocate approach at times but I think you're a little off here. Marinelli admitted in the interview that he went for the lock only after VJ went after double overs anticipating the inside trip.. So I think there is maybe some confusion between posters, not so much as to one of you being right/wrong. Cenzo initiated the move without question (tape proves that as Marinelli doesn't have magic powers to move Cenzo's right leg inside of his left) but Marinelli was expecting the attempt and countered beautifully. It was a counter move. If Joseph doesn't attempt the trip, he doesn't end up on his back. Did Marenelli mean to throw Cenzo to his back, absolutely, but would Marenelli have thrown him with out Cenzo initiating the trip, Absolutely not. I welcome a different take but I think this all stems from a lack of communication. Maybe I'm wrong.
Hmm what's that smell? Oh right, . . . Dead Horse.
AM scored more points. It was fun up until it wasn't. Buffalo, Buffalo, Buffalo. . . .
But good post @pawrest01, my take as well.
AM scored more points. It was fun up until it wasn't. Buffalo, Buffalo, Buffalo. . . .
But good post @pawrest01, my take as well.
No one is saying the Bull got lucky, multiple posters have given credit. You are the one not giving credit, when you talk about two awarded takedowns are not repeatable and that the Bull took more shots(last I checked shot attempts are not awarded points).
I see it as Marinelli, once he had locked hands, was moving forward forcefully, so Cenzo decided he was going to use that momentum to begin the inside trip, except he didn't account for Marinelli being more than prepared for it. Marinelli doesn't initiate a throw, Cenzo did, Marinelli successfully countered. But Marinelli initiated the sequence by charging into Cenzo, forcing him to make a bad choice.
Better communication does solve all.
I will admit on this topic, I am not behaving like/communicating like a grown up.
I will also say we'll find out in East Lansing or Cleveland who the better guy is.
Just out of curiosity, who do you feel has the edge going forward or is there no edge?
My take is it's very similar to the Nickal vs Martin saga with Marinelli catching Cenzo off guard but it's evident who the better wrestler is.. Maybe he beats Cenzo 2/3 out of 10 meetings...
Curious to hear a nonPSU fans' take if you don't mind.
I think up until this year MyMar and Bo was pretty even (Bo 60/40). I think Bo has separated himself.
With VJ and AM..... its tough. I did bet small stakes on AM. That aside...
Neutral: Its a wash. I don't think either guy can score on the other at will. It will be one takedown most likely off a counter. I would have to give it to VJ by the smallest of margins as I see more speed from him than I do AM and in neutral, speed/explosiveness is generally the deciding factor (all other things being equal).
Mat game (AM on top): I think these St. Paris Graham kids have elite mat skills as freshman. Jeff Jordan doesn't do freestyle in the summer, its all folk. As a result, his guys come into college better on the mats. I think a very very slight edge goes to Marinelli here. I don't know if he gets riding time, but I do think he makes VJ earn the escape which certainly affects the match.
Mat game (VJ on top): VJ lives in a room where the purpose of being on top is to turn a guy, and not just accumulate riding time. That being said, i don't think he can turn AM. I think AM gets out from bottom easier than VJ does.
Intangibles: AM hasn't won a national title. Until he does, that edge is by default VJ's.
All in all, I think VJ is the favorite by the smallest of margins. On a technical level, I think the two are elite. I also think AM has the skill set to beat VJ. A ton of strength, sound technique, and tenacity.
Banjo, I do have to say that your posts in this thread versus other ones almost seem to be from two different people. Lets get back to talking pizza and let BIGs and NCAA's sort themselves out.
I will admit when I am wrong, and I certainly went back and re-read these wondering if I was drunk when I wrote them. Poor communication coupled with defensiveness makes for crap results. I'll own it.
Most pots and kettles think their handle differenciates them. But to both the handle only serves as something to hold on to.
That when held onto too long or too hard burns both equally.
#winterwalksinthewoodsbyjackhandy
Who is trying to throw who?
Image credit to Flo Sports.
Props to Marinelli. Cenzo had control of the bout and he took it from him. My question is: Does anyone else feel Marinelli's giant knee brace might have actually worked in his favor here?
I am a YUGE Bo fan, but I am ashamed to admit that the few matches prior to the tOSU bout had me a little worried, that plus the "talk" about how Myles seemed to have stepped it up. Bo made me even more ashamed at my thoughts after the last two bouts. I am 100% fully back on board with Bo. He has separated himself IMHO!
I do have to say one of the reasons he is a favorite of mine was his actions after the NCAA loss in NYC. I was there for my first ever trip and my son's and I got tickets to the post tourney social. After losing you could tell that it was the last place he wanted to be, but he was very gracious to everyone that talked to him. A very standup young man that earned my respect forever.
I get why you think it is a wash on thier feet but i assure you it's not. Several wrestlers got into Cenzo's legs this year with similar results. He has hips of steel. AM's only TD was a counter of an ill advised throw attempt. Gee I'm will to do a charity bet on this match.
I respect that take but disagree on the neutral part. I think the neutral game is 70-30 Cenzo but agree on AM's top game being slightly better. Cenzo 100 percent had to work to get that escape which is not usual.
Can't wait to see a hungry Cenzo in a rematch, B1G's is going to be nuts. Thanks for entertaining my questions Banjo, as usual it was nice debating with you.
And AM has great defense. I think VJs speed is what gives him a leg up, although I think its a small one.
Casino Banjo is closed =)
interesting thoughts on the SPG kids .... makes you wonder why, for a high level wrestler, Micah Jordan is so bad on bottom
Lack of practice from elite top guys? I have no idea. I would have to imagine as everyone starts getting coached by college coaches that advantage can be neutralized??? Can't come up with a better answer, but SPG kids as freshman tend to look better on the mats than non SPG freshman (painting with a broad brush)
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