SIAP: PSU wrestling manager is one of the frat brothers charged in pledge's death

[Lion8286]

One of the 18 Penn State fraternity members prosecutors say played a key role in the death of a young man trying to join the fraternity is a Nashville native and prominent high school wrestler.

Jonah Neuman, 19, is accused of preventing others in the Beta Theta Pi fraternity from seeking emergency medical help for Timothy Piazza, a 19 year old who died in February after drinking heavily and falling repeatedly during a fraternity event.

Neuman reportedly "backpacked" Piazza, according to local Pennsylvania media outlet PennLive.com. The move entails putting a backpack full of books onto a drunk person in order to prevent them from rolling over and choking on their own vomit.

The Nashville native is also accused of slamming another fraternity member into the wall when the person suggested they should call for help. Neuman reportedly said they "had it under control." Hours later, Piazza died.

After graduating in 2015, Neuman enrolled at Penn State, where he served as a manager for the wrestling team, according to the team's yearbook.

http://www.tennessean.com/story/new...tive-accused-penn-state-frat-death/315968001/

 

[Dogwelder]

The world has low caliber people in it. Let's hope we are never at the mercy of only such people.

 

[HOCKEYGOD11]

Latest timeline. These kids need jail time IMO. What they did to this kid was essentially murder IMO. Anyone who says this is college kids being college kids is part of the problem. They need to be held responsible. It is truly hard to read the time line knowing what this poor kid went through that night.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...e-of-frats-deadly-night/ar-BBAZ93u?li=BBnb7Kz

 

[Lyons212]

I would assume at this point ex-manager and soon to be ex-student.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Latest timeline. These kids need jail time IMO. What they did to this kid was essentially murder IMO. Anyone who says this is college kids being college kids is part of the problem. They need to be held responsible. It is truly hard to read the time line knowing what this poor kid went through that night.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/crime...e-of-frats-deadly-night/ar-BBAZ93u?li=BBnb7Kz

A lot of benefit of the doubt given to these selfish, stupid cowards on the football board - most from blind defenders of the fraternity system. I don't understand it. If I'm in a fraternity that follows the rules re: hazing, alcohol, etc, I'd want guys like this and the Betas of the world stamped out.

The timeline is brutal reading and Jonah Neuman deserves to spend some time in the pokey (or have his wages garnished for decades). He appears to be the worst of the lot.

But they're mostly entitled rich boys who can lawyer up well, so we'll see.

 

[Lyons212]

A lot of benefit of the doubt given to these selfish, stupid cowards on the football board - most from blind defenders of the fraternity system. I don't understand it. If I'm in a fraternity that follows the rules re: hazing, alcohol, etc, I'd want guys like this and the Betas of the world stamped out.

The timeline is brutal reading and Jonah Neuman deserves to spend some time in the pokey (or have his wages garnished for decades). He appears to be the worst of the lot.

But they're mostly entitled rich boys who can lawyer up well, so we'll see.

Even if they lawyer up well, thanks to google the events of that night will follow them the rest of their lives. Makes for some interesting reading by potential future employers.

Some of them need to go to prison.

 

[tikk10]

What makes their defense especially difficult is that at least a few of them intimidated the one person who tried to do the right thing. Ordinarily their defense would involve claiming that the warning signs weren't ascertainable, but for at least one person they were, and he turned out to be sadly right. Obviously the security cam video hurts a ton too but the intimidation of the reasonable, vindicated witness is a huge problem for the defense for legal as well as the obvious optics reasons.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

Even if they lawyer up well, thanks to google the events of that night will follow them the rest of their lives. Makes for some interesting reading by potential future employers.

Some of them need to go to prison.

Yup, the Google Algorithm changed a lot.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

What makes their defense especially difficult is that at least a few of them intimidated the one person who tried to do the right thing. Ordinarily their defense would involve claiming that the warning signs weren't ascertainable, but for at least one person they were, and he turned out to be sadly right. Obviously the security cam video hurts a ton too but the intimidation of the reasonable, vindicated witness is a huge problem for the defense for legal as well as the obvious optics reasons.

Exactly - analysis that seems lost on a lot of the football board crew who are going with "they were all drunk and thought he could sleep it off" argument. Never mind the massive, blooming bruising on his torso soon after the first fall and the twitching of his body.

 

[PSUisawesome]

This was horrific

 

[Lyons212]

What makes their defense especially difficult is that at least a few of them intimidated the one person who tried to do the right thing. Ordinarily their defense would involve claiming that the warning signs weren't ascertainable, but for at least one person they were, and he turned out to be sadly right. Obviously the security cam video hurts a ton too but the intimidation of the reasonable, vindicated witness is a huge problem for the defense for legal as well as the obvious optics reasons.

Also problematic for the defense is the fact that their clients were searching on their phones such items as "head injury". That would clearly demonstrate that someone recognized the possibility that Piazza was injured. Video Tape, phone records of all the texts, internet searches and phone usage along with an eye witness...all leads to how fast the brothers sell 3 or 4 of their fellow brothers out to get the best deal.

 

[PSUAllTheWay]

I get having fun but will never understand the need to get drop down drunk or force others to do so in the name of 'fraternity', 'friendship', or 'bonding'. Incredibly sad.

 

[seminnylion]

reading the timeline makes me ill -- this young man was at the mercy of a pack of murderers.

some "brotherhood".

 

[BOSCO2]

This whole situation would be a great made-for-TV movie. However, after watching it, you would think to yourself "those guys were really assholes and no one would actually do what they did".

 

[PSUisawesome]

It's freakish that you have kids like Jason Nolf whose never had a drink in his life and devotes his time to the highest good for himself and those around him inhabiting the same campus as these broken f~*ks. What must it be like to be a part of something so elevated and know this is going on around you?

 

[Dogwelder]

It's freakish that you have kids like Jason Nolf whose never had a drink in his life and devotes his time to the highest good for himself and those around him inhabiting the same campus as these broken f~*ks. What must it be like to be a part of something so elevated and know this is going on around you?

That's why people have to surround themselves with high-caliber people, such as the PSU wrestlers and coaches seem to be. That's why a WW2 draftee would join the paratroop division even though the missions are more dangerous--the guy doesn't want to be around the ass clowns because the ass clowns will cause an unnecessary, ignominious death.

 

[Dogwelder]

... you would think to yourself "those guys were really assholes and no one would actually do what they did".

Neumann is a kinesiology major, but he has no empathy or respect for the human body. Nobody would write this stuff because it is too unbelievable, as Bosco said.

 

[greenmanRD]

The amount of people who want to provide an excuse for the unnecessary and preventable death of a teenager absolutely saddens me.

 

[Chickenman Testa]

The amount of people who want to provide an excuse for the unnecessary and preventable death of a teenager absolutely saddens me.

Many blinded by their love of their fraternity days to excuse the Beta guys when, in actuality, they should be shunning such Rogue organizations and their members.

Disclaimer - I had many friends in frats and my brother and father were in them ( at Penn and F&M respectively).

 

[WildTurk]

Its crazy how when humans get into a pack together they become much more vicious than if they were alone in the crime. They feed off each others aggression until its often too late. So sad

 

[purescurve]

Many blinded by their love of their fraternity days to excuse the Beta guys when, in actuality, they should be shunning such Rogue organizations and their members.

Disclaimer - I had many friends in frats and my brother and father were in them ( at Penn and F&M respectively).

I feel it's more of a " I know what you did last summer" type of deal.

 

[Dogwelder]

... Ordinarily their defense would involve claiming that the warning signs weren't ascertainable ...

I remember that there is a thing called Felony Murder that says that if you commit a felony, e.g., a bank robbery, and then someone slips on a banana peel and dies during the felony, then you own that death as a murder even though you claim that the slip-and-fall was "not your fault" because, you claim, it was instead the banana's fault.

Is there an analogous thing that could be called Misdemeanor Manslaughter that would say that if you commit a misdemeanor, e.g., furnishing alcohol, etc., and then someone dies during the misdemeanor, then you would own that death as a manslaughter even though you claim that the death was "not your fault" because, you claim, "how was I supposed to know he needed a doctor?" etc.?

 

[tikk10]

There is a thing called Felony Murder that says that if you commit a felony, e.g., a bank robbery, and then someone slips on a banana peel and dies during the felony, then you own that death as a murder even though you claim that the slip-and-fall was "not your fault" because, you claim, it was instead the banana's fault.

Is there an analogous thing that could be called Misdemeanor Manslaughter that would say that if you commit a misdemeanor, e.g., furnishing alcohol, etc., and then someone dies during the misdemeanor, then you would own that death as a manslaughter even though you claim that the death was "not your fault" because, you claim, "how was I supposed to know he needed a doctor?" etc.?

The idea behind the felony murder rule is to discourage participating in inherently dangerous felonies, like the bank robbery example, so that defendants can't assert that it wasn't there or anyone's intent that anyone died. You participated in an inherently dangerous crime, death was foreseeable, so we're going to transfer the intent of the murderer to your entire group, as if you all committed the murder. Here the predicate behavior was a hazing ritual, which some might say is inherently dangerous, but it's not a felony. And the types of felonies generally require specific intent, also not present here.

 

[manatree]

Here the predicate behavior was a hazing ritual, which some might say is inherently dangerous, but it's not a felony.

In PA, hazing is a misdemeanor, hence the misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter charges.

 

[5q]

they had them do the elephant walk. why in h e l l would anyone do that to become friends with others.

its a sad story. I wish the hurt kid was able to get out the front door when he tried a few times, as someone would have seen him out on the street and dialed 911.

I also wish the one or two people that wanted to dial 911, actually could have (I know that would have been tough to do)

 

[Lyons212]

In PA, hazing is a misdemeanor, hence the misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter charges.

Some were also charged with aggravated assault which is a felony and could result in a prison term of up to 20 years.

 

[LemonPie]

the kids were just thinking, "What would Paterno do?"

 

[Lion8286]

the kids were just thinking, "What would Paterno do?"

You're just full of stupid, aren't you?

 

[jrd23psu]

I get having fun but will never understand the need to get drop down drunk or force others to do so in the name of 'fraternity', 'friendship', or 'bonding'. Incredibly sad.

This is why I never joined a fraternity. I have very good friends who did at PSU along with a brother who joined at another school, and I've been told what pledges go through. The way a pledge is treated is absurd, and as somebody who was no longer in high school I had no interest in being treated like I was piece of garbage in the name of "brotherhood."

Fraternities always hide behind the idea that they all had to go through it. It still doesn't make it right, though. There needs to be a serious crackdown on the Greek life at PSU, and probably almost every other school in the country.

 

[greenmanRD]

Please don't turn this board into the McAndrew one.

 

[Dogwelder]

... Fraternities always ...

Always?!?

 

[matter7172]

Two things. My wife worked with the victim's father, so it was another level of tragic for me. Also, I pledged a frat in college and went through the hazing. I had no desire to inflict that kind of abuse on another human being but found it hard to respect those who did. The final straw for me was the first "Hell Week" after I was a brother. There was a pledge who had fallen from a rooftop at the school (capstone gave way while he was on it) and had been severely and permanently injured by the fall. He was singled out because he couldn't do the physical items demanded of him during the hazing and ridiculed for it. And this guy had been a starting guard on the football team - one tough and game individual. That may have been more cruel than putting the rest of the pledges through the ritual. I was done at that point. To me, hazing is nothing more than sanctioned abuse. I don't think it has any place in higher education. I hope justice is done.

 

[tikk10]

In PA, hazing is a misdemeanor, hence the misdemeanor involuntary manslaughter charges.

Thanks, I didn't know that. In NY it's a misdemeanor as well but I've never encountered it here either. I just looked up both and NY's is a sentence (key language "intentionally or recklessly engages in conduct which creates a substantial risk of physical injury"), PA's is a long, dense paragraph (key language "recklessly or intentionally endangers the mental or physical health or safety of a student") followed by a laundry list of hazing examples they'd evidently encountered. The conduct required to violate Pennsylvania's hazing law is pretty broad, I imagine anyone looking for violations can find them easily enough.

 

[manatree]

Some were also charged with aggravated assault which is a felony and could result in a prison term of up to 20 years.

I'm thinking that those assault charges are related to specific actions captured on video not just the general hazing action(s). I believe that it was mentioned in the presentment that various people slapped him in the face, struck him in the stomach, threw him back on the couch, etc.

 

[royboy]

Its crazy how when humans get into a pack together they become much more vicious than if they were alone in the crime. They feed off each others aggression until its often too late. So sad

Animal Farm by George Orwell.

1984 by George Orwell.

These books are still relevant. Must reading.

 

[PSUisawesome]

That's why people have to surround themselves with high-caliber people, such as the PSU wrestlers and coaches seem to be. That's why a WW2 draftee would join the paratroop division even though the missions are more dangerous--the guy doesn't want to be around the ass clowns because the ass clowns will cause an unnecessary, ignominious death.

And it was a relative few functional units the handled the bulk of the fighting. Apropos of nothing but you brought up World War Two and I couldn't resist.

 

[royboy]

And it was a relative few functional units the handled the bulk of the fighting. Apropos of nothing but you brought up World War Two and I couldn't resist.

Off-topic, but go ahead and expound on that; I'd be interested to hear what your reading indicates and some specific details.

I'm guessing you'll cite some Marine units in the Pacific, certain Armored units in Europe, along with Airborne and Ranger units, such as those that played a vital role in Normandy. And who best represented the Navy?

 

[a_mshaffer]

I liked my kids frat hazing process.... you have to be a designated driver on call (thus no drinking) then cleaning up after parties. Good clean work!

 

[psualt]

they had them do the elephant walk. why in h e l l would anyone do that to become friends with others.

its a sad story. I wish the hurt kid was able to get out the front door when he tried a few times, as someone would have seen him out on the street and dialed 911.

I also wish the one or two people that wanted to dial 911, actually could have (I know that would have been tough to do)

Here's what I don't get..why couldn't they dial 911? Could they physically not leave and call 911. If you know it needs to be done then you just do it.

 

[Dogwelder]

Here's what I don't get..why couldn't they dial 911? Could they physically not leave and call 911. If you know it needs to be done then you just do it.

Physically they could have left. But mentally they were not capable of leading themselves when it was time to lead. Were any of them Boy Scouts? Sports team leaders? Exposed to books about leaders? Went to church? Where do such kids come from? What did their parents teach them? WTF!?!