SLIGHT concern

[PSUranger]

Was anyone else a little concerned/surprised by the ease with which Purdue seemed to get in on some of our wrestlers legs?

Keener was in trouble several times, Lee also needed to rely on his whizzer to get out of trouble, even Nolf was attacked multiple times.

I realize we won the takedown battle 27 - 0, I am just curious if others felt as I that our legs were too easily attacked.

 

[slushhead]

For most of the team, that's simply a by-product of their aggressiveness . . . which seems to have been a pretty effective formula over the years.

 

[billrag]

Was anyone else a little concerned/surprised by the ease with which Purdue seemed to get in on some of our wrestlers legs?

Keener was in trouble several times, Lee also needed to rely on his whizzer to get out of trouble, even Nolf was attacked multiple times.

I realize we won the takedown battle 27 - 0, I am just curious if others felt as I that our legs were too easily attacked.

Ha! Only a PSU fan could find fault when their team won a takedown battle 27-0. In fairness, I think some of these guys wrestle fairly loose to begin with and they aren't bothered by guys getting in at times. I'm not as concerned as you are (though you aren't pulling a chicken little, I realize that).

 

[Chickenman Testa]

For most of the team, that's simply a by-product of their aggressiveness . . . which seems to have been a pretty effective formula over the years.

Exactly. Count me not impressed by guys who don’t give up many takedowns, but also don’t get many. What’s the point? Is there some sort of award for fewest takedowns allowed in a year?

 

[El-Jefe]

Exactly. Count me not impressed by guys who don’t give up many takedowns, but also don’t get many. What’s the point? Is there some sort of award for fewest takedowns allowed in a year?

Yes, the Heil Award.

 

[nerfstate]

I feel the only area for concern there might be with Keener, but his Whizzer was epic night. Would love to see that thumb heal before March though.

Lee turned every one into his own TD, it's one of the things our guys do best.

 

[jrd23psu]

I was thinking about this during the match, but the reality is that Purdue did a good job with their shots. Kudos to them for being able to get to the legs. I didn't mean much since they recorded zero takedown, but they seem like a scrappy bunch who are not afraid to go at it.

 

[nitlion6]

Almost every time Purdue got in on PSU's legs it was a result of Purdue stepping back and PSU stepping into the shot (PSU aggressiveness).
They wrestle to attack and score, the personality of the team is always going to make them susceptible to wrestlers who retreat to attack.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Was anyone else a little concerned/surprised by the ease with which Purdue seemed to get in on some of our wrestlers legs?

Keener was in trouble several times, Lee also needed to rely on his whizzer to get out of trouble, even Nolf was attacked multiple times.

I realize we won the takedown battle 27 - 0, I am just curious if others felt as I that our legs were too easily attacked.

If they awarded points for getting in on a leg I would be concerned, but since they don't I am not the least concerned.

 

[BruceK-PSU83]

Was anyone else a little concerned/surprised by the ease with which Purdue seemed to get in on some of our wrestlers legs?

Keener was in trouble several times, Lee also needed to rely on his whizzer to get out of trouble, even Nolf was attacked multiple times.

I realize we won the takedown battle 27 - 0, I am just curious if others felt as I that our legs were too easily attacked.

Keener - Yes. Made it too easy for the opponent. Give Keener credit for fighting off the deep shots (three, I think) and not giving up a TD, but not a recipe for long term success. But we all should know by now what we have in Keener.

Lee - Not much. The Purdue opponent never got in deep or was close to converting when he got a leg.

Nolf - No. We've seen this many times, and it generally doesn't work out well for the opponent. And Nolf does give up an early TD at times, but rarely with any impact on the match.

 

[greenmanRD]

I thought Nick Lee exhibited a lot of skill in fighting off some of those shots to stalemates. Lee also had Limmex looking to the ref for help midway through the 2nd, so my concern is not very high with him.

 

[nitlion6]

Just a side note.
One of the more ridiculous calls last night was the stall call on Nick Lee. 3 or 4 tomes in a row the Purdue kid did a 1 or 2 step retreat and as Nick stalked him by just continuously moving forward the Purdue kid would shoot and Nick sprawled.

Poor situational understanding by the official.

 

[greenmanRD]

Just a side note.
One of the more ridiculous calls last night was the stall call on Nick Lee. 3 or 4 tomes in a row the Purdue kid did a 1 or 2 step retreat and as Nick stalked him by just continuously moving forward the Purdue kid would shoot and Nick sprawled.

Poor situational understanding by the official.

The referee in general was unimpressive last night. I thought his positioning on Nolf's cradle attempt in the 1st period was not good.

 

[LemonPie]

I mean, Nick Lee isn't going to win those scrambles against Yianni or Meredith, but maybe the game plan changes a bit in those matches.

 

[tabenn]

Was anyone else a little concerned/surprised by the ease with which Purdue seemed to get in on some of our wrestlers legs?

Keener was in trouble several times, Lee also needed to rely on his whizzer to get out of trouble, even Nolf was attacked multiple times.

I realize we won the takedown battle 27 - 0, I am just curious if others felt as I that our legs were too easily attacked.

I look at this as a big positive--Purdue got in on legs a lot and scored 0 TD, Defense and re-shot is a big part of PSU success. PSU wrestlers have the best far ankle defense in college wrestling.
I do not have the numbers to back this up--but I would bet that PSU is the best in the country at scoring off opponents shot.

 

[dicemen99]

The referee in general was unimpressive last night. I thought his positioning on Nolf's cradle attempt in the 1st period was not good.

A call he made in the Nevills match had me curious.

He started the 5 count after Nick got the TD. Nick attempted to move up, but was blocked by his opponent in doing so. He then released his hold and put both hands in the air to try to avoid the stall call - essentially releasing his opponent. His opponent stayed in position and got the stall call AND the restart in the defensive position.

Would like to get an interpretation on this from someone more informed on that then me.

 

[nitlion6]

I mean, Nick Lee isn't going to win those scrambles against Yianni or Meredith, but maybe the game plan changes a bit in those matches.

You and the rest of us know there is a plan and Nick will be prepared.

 

[nitlion6]

A call he made in the Nevills match had me curious.

He started the 5 count after Nick got the TD. Nick attempted to move up, but was blocked by his opponent in doing so. He then released his hold and put both hands in the air to try to avoid the stall call - essentially releasing his opponent. His opponent stayed in position and got the stall call AND the restart in the defensive position.

Would like to get an interpretation on this from someone more informed on that then me.

I could be mistaken, but in that situation I believe if the defensive wrestler is not allowing the offensive wrestler to move up there should be no count.

 

[nerfstate]

Can anyone explain the illegal hold call on Shak? It was not a full Nelson....

 

[nitlion6]

Can anyone explain the illegal hold call on Shak? It was not a full Nelson....

From my seat I could not see exactly what the issue was. Not much chirping from the bench led me to believe he did something he should not have.

 

[nerfstate]

Casey definitely cornered the ref after the bout, from my vantage, it seemed to be about the call.

 

[slushhead]

The referee in general was unimpressive last night. I thought his positioning on Nolf's cradle attempt in the 1st period was not good.

Certainly not as good as Gifmaster-LP's positioning.

 

[GOLDBANGER]

The referee in general was unimpressive last night. I thought his positioning on Nolf's cradle attempt in the 1st period was not good.

I thought stalling was called aggressively, and if called as it was last night is, in the long run, to our advantage. The officiating overall last night was as good if not better than what we typically see, my opinion, for what it's worth.

 

[slushhead]

A call he made in the Nevills match had me curious.

He started the 5 count after Nick got the TD. Nick attempted to move up, but was blocked by his opponent in doing so. He then released his hold and put both hands in the air to try to avoid the stall call - essentially releasing his opponent. His opponent stayed in position and got the stall call AND the restart in the defensive position.

Would like to get an interpretation on this from someone more informed on that then me.

Didn't see it, but by your description, it sounds like the "release" didn't qualify as an escape (due to defensive wrestler maintaining position). I'm betting the official has only 2 options to discontinue the 5-count:
(a) offensive wrestler improves position to work up above hips; or
(b) defensive wrestler escapes.

If neither of those happen, then 5-count continues and stall is called.

Just my guess without checking the rule book. As we know, simply letting go of a guy doesn't generate an automatic, instantaneous escape. There has to be a subsequent change in position, and that generally doesn't occur in less than 1 second (I'm assuming Nick let go when the count reached 4+).

 

[NoVa Lion]

From my seat I could not see exactly what the issue was. Not much chirping from the bench led me to believe he did something he should not have.

Pretty sure it was a choke hold. Shak had one arm around the guys throat but he reached over with his other arm and as soon as his hand touched (he didn't lock it) the other arm the ref blew the whistle.

 

[dicemen99]

Pretty sure it was a choke hold. Shak had one arm around the guys throat but he reached over with his other arm and as soon as his hand touched (he didn't lock it) the other arm the ref blew the whistle.

I thought it was an illegal headlock. Encircled the head without the arm. I'll go back and rewatch.

 

[LemonPie]

You and the rest of us know there is a plan and Nick will be prepared.

Yes, he will. 6-2 against guys who will be national qualifiers. 5 of those 6 wins came with bonus. Loving what I'm seeing with him.

 

[dunkej01]

I thought Nick Lee exhibited a lot of skill in fighting off some of those shots to stalemates. Lee also had Limmex looking to the ref for help midway through the 2nd, so my concern is not very high with him.

Limmex beat chad redd last week. Nick is setting himself up nicely for a top seed at Bigs.

The thorn match next week is hUUge

 

[RoarLions1]

I thought stalling was called aggressively, and if called as it was last night is, in the long run, to our advantage. The officiating overall last night was as good if not better than what we typically see, my opinion, for what it's worth.

With ya BANGER. 28-0 in takedowns, and aggressive stalling calls. We won the 9 bouts contested with 7 of those bonus point wins. On the 0-100 positivity scale, with 100 being totally positive, I'm at 100.

 

[a_mshaffer]

I feel the only area for concern there might be with Keener, but his Whizzer was epic night. Would love to see that thumb heal before March though.

Lee turned every one into his own TD, it's one of the things our guys do best.

You could see Lee looking for the turn around as he was eyeing the far ankle each time the kid was in deep. He got it the one time. Mike Mal says PSU is the best at going for the far ankle...

 

[a_mshaffer]

A call he made in the Nevills match had me curious.

He started the 5 count after Nick got the TD. Nick attempted to move up, but was blocked by his opponent in doing so. He then released his hold and put both hands in the air to try to avoid the stall call - essentially releasing his opponent. His opponent stayed in position and got the stall call AND the restart in the defensive position.

Would like to get an interpretation on this from someone more informed on that then me.

yes! Especially when in another meet I saw a wrestler (can't think of who it was) liftt his arms similarly and the ref stopped his count.

 

[a_mshaffer]

Didn't see it, but by your description, it sounds like the "release" didn't qualify as an escape (due to defensive wrestler maintaining position). I'm betting the official has only 2 options to discontinue the 5-count:
(a) offensive wrestler improves position to work up above hips; or
(b) defensive wrestler escapes.

If neither of those happen, then 5-count continues and stall is called.

Just my guess without checking the rule book. As we know, simply letting go of a guy doesn't generate an automatic, instantaneous escape. There has to be a subsequent change in position, and that generally doesn't occur in less than 1 second (I'm assuming Nick let go when the count reached 4+).

#3 - a stalemate. If I'm not using my arms and no one is improving position its a stalemate ..... in the case last night a stall-mate

 

[diggerpup]

His opponent stayed in position and got the stall call AND the restart in the defensive position.

Would like to get an interpretation on this from someone more informed on that then me.

An obvious Fist-to-the-Back violation.

 

[billrag]

yes! Especially when in another meet I saw a wrestler (can't think of who it was) liftt his arms similarly and the ref stopped his count.

I'm pretty sure that I saw Mark Hall do it this year, don't recall the opponent.

 

[dicemen99]

#3 - a stalemate. If I'm not using my arms and no one is improving position its a stalemate ..... in the case last night a stall-mate

I actually just got a reply from an NCAA official who confirmed the official's call was correct. Once the 5 count begins it can not be stopped unless the top man moves up, bottom man escapes OR the bottom man has grasped the top man's legs. Releasing the hands doesn't matter, nor does it matter if the bottom man is not allowing the top man to move up. Stall was the proper call.

 

[matter7172]

I actually just got a reply from an NCAA official who confirmed the official's call was correct. Once the 5 count begins it can not be stopped unless the top man moves up, bottom man escapes OR the bottom man has grasped the top man's legs. Releasing the hands doesn't matter, nor does it matter if the bottom man is not allowing the top man to move up. Stall was the proper call.

This is why the rule is terrible. If the top man is clearly attempting to improve his position and is being prevented from doing so by the bottom man, it is, pretty obviously, not "stalling" by the top man. It's two guys wrestling. Where else can you be hit for stalling if you are attempting to improve your position?

 

[El-Jefe]

Where else can you be hit for stalling if you are attempting to improve your position?

Zain has stalled his way to a lot of pins.