Small town America is punishing itself with opiates.

[Obliviax]

One would hope it is also laughable because we have constitutional rights. Singapore does not.

Singapore also practices corporal punishment. In the end, your penalty is lashes. So there isn't much of an appeal process. In addition, if you are old/young, rich/poor, crazy/sane you all share in the feel of the lash consistently. There aren't people that are willing to live with the consequences of their crime.

When I was there, you could eat off the floor of their subways. (the trains, not the restaurants). In some ways, I am envious, in others it is barbaric. But if you are Bill Gates or some kid on East 55th in CLE, when you get five lashes, you've been punished. You don't get the Martha Stewart treatment.

 

[katchthis]

Singapore also practices corporal punishment. In the end, your penalty is lashes. So there isn't much of an appeal process. In addition, if you are old/young, rich/poor, crazy/sane you all share in the feel of the lash consistently. There aren't people that are willing to live with the consequences of their crime.

When I was there, you could eat off the floor of their subways. (the trains, not the restaurants). In some ways, I am envious, in others it is barbaric. But if you are Bill Gates or some kid on East 55th in CLE, when you get five lashes, you've been punished. You don't get the Martha Stewart treatment.

Only whip I want is an orange whip.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

The Ohio AG would be better off suing the drug companies over price gouging and anti-trust practices.

When can we sue gun makers for the deaths guns cause?

 

[Nitt1300]

When can we sue gun makers for the deaths guns cause?

right after you sue Detroit for all the deaths cars cause

 

[MtNittany]

When can we sue gun makers for the deaths guns cause?

Right after we can sue Stanley for hammer deaths I guess.

 

[demlion]

right after you sue Detroit for all the deaths cars cause

Right after you find doctors who prescribed cars and guns for blind people, saying, "Used as prescribed, the chance you will cause injury with this gun or car is very small." This after being well aware for over 100 years that blind people cant drive or shoot worth sh!t.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

right after you sue Detroit for all the deaths cars cause

Right after we can sue Stanley for hammer deaths I guess.

Awesome - let's get on that.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

Right after you find doctors who prescribed cars and guns for blind people, saying, "Used as prescribed, the chance you will cause injury with this gun or car is very small." This after being well aware for over 100 years that blind people cant drive or shoot worth sh!t.

How do you use a gun as prescribed? I think killing things is what they're made for.

 

[Lyons212]

When can we sue gun makers for the deaths guns cause?

That has already been tried and is a losing legal argument. A gun is a tool.

I was referring too the fact that most medications are significantly cheaper everywhere else in the world compared to the USA. That occurs via violations of anti-trust laws.

Regarding the Ohio AG suing big pharma over addiction issues, another loser. The drug companies cannot legally directly supply the end customer, nobody is alleging that they are. Problem is doctors provide prescriptions in too large of quantity or when they are not needed. They do this for pain management, infections, mental health issues, behavior problems in kids, etc.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

That has already been tried and is a losing legal argument. A gun is a tool.

I was referring too the fact that most medications are significantly cheaper everywhere else in the world compared to the USA. That occurs via violations of anti-trust laws.

Regarding the Ohio AG suing big pharma over addiction issues, another loser. The drug companies cannot legally directly supply the end customer, nobody is alleging that they are. Problem is doctors provide prescriptions in too large of quantity or when they are not needed. They do this for pain management, infections, mental health issues, behavior problems in kids, etc.

What about the people who used and benefitted from the drugs and who aren't addicted?

 

[MtNittany]

How do you use a gun as prescribed? I think killing things is what they're made for.

A lot of "gun people" have never killed even a squirrel. They go to the range and practice so they can protect their families if the need should arise.

 

[Lyons212]

That is surprising. I'd think Radiator Springs or Martinsburg would have sufficient demand. Now Winchester or Hagerstown or Cumberland is not that far away, but this is a population that by definition is noncompliant and nonfunctional, so it's a big ask. You gotta bring it to the clients.

I'm no softie. I am a big law and order guy and I'm 'tough on criminals'. I also like strategies that work. It should be obvious to a turtle that it is not possible to enforce our way out of the problem. Enforcement has a place, absolutely. At the same time the only way to slow down this train is by cutting off the demand side. That requires education and treatment.

It also requires significant changes to medical practice. @demlion mentioned somebody with back pain getting a months worth of narcotics. That patient DOES NOT NEED narcotics. They need to lose weight, stop smoking, get physical rehabilitation/work hardening, get off their ass and exercise, get surgery, or explore treatments like relaxation and biofeedback. All of those things are hard and the patient doesn't want to hear it. The doctor has fifteen minutes with the patient - so everybody does the EASY thing and here comes the Rx. And we're off.

Good post, the same can be said for people with type II diabetes. Instead of giving them medicine, have them clean up their diet and get exercise.

It is amazing how much better people feel and how much their health improves do consistently doing some basic common sense stuff such as eating good food and not garbage, getting plenty of fluids, getting 7 to 8 hours of sleep each night, exercise, laughing and getting outside some. Do those things and most people will feel better.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

A lot of "gun people" have never killed even a squirrel. They go to the range and practice so they can protect their families if the need should arise.

Oh - I know. But other people used them to kill people on purpose.

 

[voltz99]

That has already been tried and is a losing legal argument. A gun is a tool.

I was referring too the fact that most medications are significantly cheaper everywhere else in the world compared to the USA. That occurs via violations of anti-trust laws.

Regarding the Ohio AG suing big pharma over addiction issues, another loser. The drug companies cannot legally directly supply the end customer, nobody is alleging that they are. Problem is doctors provide prescriptions in too large of quantity or when they are not needed. They do this for pain management, infections, mental health issues, behavior problems in kids, etc.

Except some of those tools/guns have defects.

You forgot the part about some doctors getting kickbacks from the drug companies to over prescribe meds to people that did not need the meds.

 

[sluggo72]

That is surprising. I'd think Radiator Springs or Martinsburg would have sufficient demand. Now Winchester or Hagerstown or Cumberland is not that far away, but this is a population that by definition is noncompliant and nonfunctional, so it's a big ask. You gotta bring it to the clients.

I'm no softie. I am a big law and order guy and I'm 'tough on criminals'. I also like strategies that work. It should be obvious to a turtle that it is not possible to enforce our way out of the problem. Enforcement has a place, absolutely. At the same time the only way to slow down this train is by cutting off the demand side. That requires education and treatment.

It also requires significant changes to medical practice. @demlion mentioned somebody with back pain getting a months worth of narcotics. That patient DOES NOT NEED narcotics. They need to lose weight, stop smoking, get physical rehabilitation/work hardening, get off their ass and exercise, get surgery, or explore treatments like relaxation and biofeedback. All of those things are hard and the patient doesn't want to hear it. The doctor has fifteen minutes with the patient - so everybody does the EASY thing and here comes the Rx. And we're off.

Why does a DR only have 15 min with a patient?

 

[Phil's Rug]

Having people who you know care about you is KEY to recovery. There has to be something to recover FOR.

So 10 months later I find myself coming back to this thread, dem your post above stuck with me over that time frame and now I find my self replaying it over and over in my head. I shared a story in this thread about a friend of mine, unfortunately she passed away over the weekend. While we still don't know for sure what happened and won't know for a few days, she had been having some health problems as of late that had been getting worse and had been having seizures. Part of me is hoping it was from that, but another part of me knows it was possible she relapsed again and I hope that wasn't the case. She was trying so hard but the last few months had been very difficult on her.

I guess that brings me back to the part above in your quote that really sticks with me, about having people who you know care about you is key because there is a lot of truth in that. She had very few of those people in her life, and the people she needed that support from the most treated her the worst. Like I mentioned in another previous post, her family was very hard on her and not in a good way. I spent a lot of time trying push her in the right direction, helping her stay positive and remembering what she was fighting for. But her family spent all of their time tearing her down.

She lost a brother before Christmas, about the same time her father was diagnosed with a brain tumor, and they later discovered another one in his stomach and she relapsed. After his surgery she came to visit, it ended in a huge fight and both of them said some things that a parent and child should never say to one another. Despite how much they fought, she loved him very much. She would always tell me when she messed up and used again, she was always open with me in that regard. Then just last month her mom was diagnosed with cancer and had went last Friday for surgery. Her own health had been getting worse and she was starting to show symptoms of what her mom had just gone through.

When she came back to stay with her dad last spring, he pushed her to come talk to me and in the same breath would tell her "but don't worry you'll F that up too". But she didn't and despite not seeing each other in almost 20 years we became very good friends again and close over the following months and we spent a lot of time talking and trying to help one another. Despite her history, she had a tremendous impact on my life in a very positive way. We both had our own, albeit very different demons and shared a common one in depression but she was there for me and helped me through a lot of stuff. She called me last Wednesday, and we talked for a while she sounded so tired and was down from all the family stuff that had been going on. She stopped on her way to town on Thursday for a few minutes to see me, we made plans to get together on Easter with her boy. Gave her a hug and said goodbye. Texted her Friday night to see how her mom made out, she texted me back to let me know that it went good. She passed away on Saturday at the age of 37.

She made some awful decisions and mistakes in her life, they cost her dearly and she was aware of that. But deep down she had a huge heart that very few people got to see because they couldn't see past her being anything other than an addict when she was so much more. She was a mother to a little boy that she loved dearly, she got her own place and she had been doing so good that she had just got more visitation time with him and was getting him every Saturday now. She was a daughter, she was a sister. She was an aunt to lots of nieces and nephews that loved her very much, three of which live across the road from me and I see them everyday. And I'm not afraid to admit it, she was my best friend.

I don't know if I was trying to make a point with any of that or maybe I'm rambling. Was in the middle of writing a letter for her to say my goodbyes and needed to take a break. I'm just at a loss right now.

 

[Media Fan]

Singapore also practices corporal punishment. In the end, your penalty is lashes. So there isn't much of an appeal process. In addition, if you are old/young, rich/poor, crazy/sane you all share in the feel of the lash consistently. There aren't people that are willing to live with the consequences of their crime.

When I was there, you could eat off the floor of their subways. (the trains, not the restaurants). In some ways, I am envious, in others it is barbaric. But if you are Bill Gates or some kid on East 55th in CLE, when you get five lashes, you've been punished. You don't get the Martha Stewart treatment.

We lost the willingness to do that long ago-IF we ever had it.
As I recall, maybe 15 years ago, Singapore used corporal punishment for a US teen who polluted their streets.
Good for them.

 

[Media Fan]

That has already been tried and is a losing legal argument. A gun is a tool.

I was referring too the fact that most medications are significantly cheaper everywhere else in the world compared to the USA. That occurs via violations of anti-trust laws.

Regarding the Ohio AG suing big pharma over addiction issues, another loser. The drug companies cannot legally directly supply the end customer, nobody is alleging that they are. Problem is doctors provide prescriptions in too large of quantity or when they are not needed. They do this for pain management, infections, mental health issues, behavior problems in kids, etc.

How about car manufacturers for auto deaths, candy makers for obesity, slow commuter trains for mental anguish, bread manufacturers for the salt in bread, which is responsible for my heart attack; for that matter, how about suing the people that employ us and give us the money to feed and house ourselves for everything that disturbs me.
After all, isn't it all about me--except when it comes to being responsible for my behavior, that is your fault , and besides, whom are you to tell me what to do.

 

[Tri-Power65]

Popeyes is a killer too, but you live to like 50 or 60's

Meh, Popeye's two-piece deal is only three or four bites of chicken.

 

[Tri-Power65]

http://www.revcom.us/a/china/opium.htm

How China Wiped out it's huge Drug Problem (over 70 million junkies)

"Under that old society, many people were strung out on the pipe. There were 70 million junkies in China -- addicted to opium, morphine and heroin. Half-starving laborers used the sweet opium dreams to cover the pain of hunger and hopelessness. And the lazy rich used drugs to fill up their empty hours. In some areas everyone even children, smoked opium. In the cities, tiny bottles of drugs were sold on the streetcorners like ice cream. People got high on the job.The people of old China suffered terribly from this drug addiction. Many poor people used their pennies on the pipe instead of food. Addicts often abandoned their children or even SOLD their children to buy more drugs. Addicted women were often forced to become prostitutes and many died of diseases."

Problem solved in 3 years:

http://www.revcom.us/a/china/opium.htm

Good God, what a load of communist propaganda horseshit.

 

[BBG65]

Addictions don't require scumbag heroine dealers.....
Addiction is a real disease. Addiction to sex....to scripts....addiction to whatever.
We have spent billions every year since I was in my teens trying to eradicate those providing the shit.... (see DEA budget). It's a huge burgeoning waste of money and time.

The families don't go after the dealer because mostly they have no idea who they are. I have a nephew who was an addict and a niece who is an addict. Their parents don't know who the dealers are. The police only catch a small % of them and then they usually get off with a slap on the wrist. Our niece, the current addict, has been caught driving while on drugs 3 times in the last 2 years. No jail and is still driving, although I'm not sure if she still has her license or not.

 

[Lion Lineage]

Also, the legalization of marijuana decreased income for the Mexican cartels. Just like any other business, when one avenue dries up, you exploit a different resource (heroin).

I’ve often toyed with the idea that society would be better off if drugs and prostitution were legalized. Alcohol and gambling (in some areas) are already legalized and it goes a long way to keeping illegal elements out of those businesses. Think of how much safer drugs like heroin would be if the facilities that made it were regulated by the FDA. Think of how diseases like HIV would be curbed if addicts had easy access to free and clean needles. Much the same can be said for prostitution. Would it lead to more people trying heroin and other “hard” drugs? I have no idea. I know I wouldn’t have tried it even if it were legal, but then again I don’t smoke either. Maybe legalize it while simultaneously engaging in a massive public education campaign describing how drugs like heroin destroy your physical and mental health, turn you into a slave to a chemical, etc.

The world’s oldest profession and drug use aren’t going anywhere, ever. Making these things illegal hasn’t stopped them or changed people’s behavior, so it would seem at some point in the future something will have to change with respect to how we as a society handle such things. You know that old definition of insanity? It would seem to apply to society’s approach to such things.

 

[psuro]

A lot of "gun people" have never killed even a squirrel. They go to the range and practice so they can protect their families if the need should arise.

They should be forced to undergo mental health evaluations before purchasing. Because that seems to be the issue everyone has - mental health - not the guns themselves.

 

[demlion]

So 10 months later I find myself coming back to this thread, dem your post above stuck with me over that time frame and now I find my self replaying it over and over in my head. I shared a story in this thread about a friend of mine, unfortunately she passed away over the weekend. While we still don't know for sure what happened and won't know for a few days, she had been having some health problems as of late that had been getting worse and had been having seizures. Part of me is hoping it was from that, but another part of me knows it was possible she relapsed again and I hope that wasn't the case. She was trying so hard but the last few months had been very difficult on her.

I guess that brings me back to the part above in your quote that really sticks with me, about having people who you know care about you is key because there is a lot of truth in that. She had very few of those people in her life, and the people she needed that support from the most treated her the worst. Like I mentioned in another previous post, her family was very hard on her and not in a good way. I spent a lot of time trying push her in the right direction, helping her stay positive and remembering what she was fighting for. But her family spent all of their time tearing her down.

She lost a brother before Christmas, about the same time her father was diagnosed with a brain tumor, and they later discovered another one in his stomach and she relapsed. Despite how much they fought, she loved him very much. She would always tell me when she messed up, she was always open with me. Then just last month her mom was diagnosed with cancer and had went last Friday for surgery. Her own health had been getting worse and she was starting to show symptoms of what her mom had just gone through.

When she came back to stay with her dad last spring, he pushed her to come talk to me and in the same breath would tell her "but don't worry you'll F that up too". But she didn't we became very good friends and close over the previous months and we spent a lot of time talking and trying to help one another. Despite her history, she had a tremendous impact on my life in a very positive way. We both had our own, albeit very different demons and shared a common one in depression but she was there for me and helped me through a lot of stuff. She called me last Wednesday, and we talked for a while she sounded so tired and was down from all the family stuff that had been going on. She stopped on her way to town on Thursday for a few minutes to see me, we made plans to get together on Easter with her boy. Gave her a hug and said goodbye. Texted her Friday night to see how her mom made out, she texted me back to let me know that it went good. She passed away on Saturday at the age of 37.

She made some awful decisions and mistakes in her life, they cost her dearly and she was aware of that. But deep down she had a huge heart that very few people got to see because they couldn't see past her being anything other than an addict when she was so much more. She was a mother to a little boy that she loved dearly, she got her own place and she had been doing so good that she had just got more visitation time with him and was getting him every Saturday now. She was a daughter, she was a sister. She was an aunt to lots of nieces and nephews that loved her very much, three of which live across the road from me and I see them everyday. And I'm not afraid to admit it, she was my best friend.

I don't know if I was trying to make a point with any of that or maybe I'm rambling. Was in the middle of writing a letter for her to say my goodbyes and needed to take a break. I'm just at a loss right now.

Only a person marked by extreme resilience could have dealt with the hammer blows you just described. Clearly, that excludes most addicts--they might have great levels of resilience, but the life of addiction eats that up. They are always operating on the margin.

For the people on this thread who think addiction is a character flaw or a weakness, and not a disease, well you are flat wrong. Do addicts have character flaws and weaknesses? Yeah, as most of us have one kind or another. But these folks have got the causation backwards. Addiction eats your character, and it MAKES you weak. I have known many people who put up with astonishing chronic pain for years. It wore them down. It made them weak. But when they became addicts, in some cases at the behest of and for the profit of their physicians, they had no reserve left to fight with.

I object to the model that declares people weak as though it were a one-shot test at one moment in time. We are all weak and strong and have great and poor character in us.

My heart goes out to you for this loss. You seem a person who represents the life-giving affirmation that suffering people need. Whatever you do, do NOT give up on the idea that affirming others works. Sometimes you just need more people on your team.

 

[LionJim]

Phil, sorry for your loss. I hope you can find some small comfort in the fact that she surely treasured your friendship and that she is perhaps now in a better place. Thank you for the lesson on how to live a good life.

 

[BBrown]

So 10 months later I find myself coming back to this thread, dem your post above stuck with me over that time frame and now I find my self replaying it over and over in my head. I shared a story in this thread about a friend of mine, unfortunately she passed away over the weekend. While we still don't know for sure what happened and won't know for a few days, she had been having some health problems as of late that had been getting worse and had been having seizures. Part of me is hoping it was from that, but another part of me knows it was possible she relapsed again and I hope that wasn't the case. She was trying so hard but the last few months had been very difficult on her.

I guess that brings me back to the part above in your quote that really sticks with me, about having people who you know care about you is key because there is a lot of truth in that. She had very few of those people in her life, and the people she needed that support from the most treated her the worst. Like I mentioned in another previous post, her family was very hard on her and not in a good way. I spent a lot of time trying push her in the right direction, helping her stay positive and remembering what she was fighting for. But her family spent all of their time tearing her down.

She lost a brother before Christmas, about the same time her father was diagnosed with a brain tumor, and they later discovered another one in his stomach and she relapsed. Despite how much they fought, she loved him very much. She would always tell me when she messed up, she was always open with me. Then just last month her mom was diagnosed with cancer and had went last Friday for surgery. Her own health had been getting worse and she was starting to show symptoms of what her mom had just gone through.

When she came back to stay with her dad last spring, he pushed her to come talk to me and in the same breath would tell her "but don't worry you'll F that up too". But she didn't we became very good friends and close over the previous months and we spent a lot of time talking and trying to help one another. Despite her history, she had a tremendous impact on my life in a very positive way. We both had our own, albeit very different demons and shared a common one in depression but she was there for me and helped me through a lot of stuff. She called me last Wednesday, and we talked for a while she sounded so tired and was down from all the family stuff that had been going on. She stopped on her way to town on Thursday for a few minutes to see me, we made plans to get together on Easter with her boy. Gave her a hug and said goodbye. Texted her Friday night to see how her mom made out, she texted me back to let me know that it went good. She passed away on Saturday at the age of 37.

She made some awful decisions and mistakes in her life, they cost her dearly and she was aware of that. But deep down she had a huge heart that very few people got to see because they couldn't see past her being anything other than an addict when she was so much more. She was a mother to a little boy that she loved dearly, she got her own place and she had been doing so good that she had just got more visitation time with him and was getting him every Saturday now. She was a daughter, she was a sister. She was an aunt to lots of nieces and nephews that loved her very much, three of which live across the road from me and I see them everyday. And I'm not afraid to admit it, she was my best friend.

I don't know if I was trying to make a point with any of that or maybe I'm rambling. Was in the middle of writing a letter for her to say my goodbyes and needed to take a break. I'm just at a loss right now.

Wow Phil, so sorry. I'm not sure I'd be strong enough to withstand all that either. Its a very sad story.
as for your last part I know exactly what you mean, I did the exact same thing (writing a letter to the person I lost) to rambling in a thread over the weekend.
I have to admit though it was sort of cathartic.
As the song goes....Ramble on...my friend.

 

[demlion]

BTW, @Phil's Rug, keep on writing. The process of finding the best way to express complex ideas in writing causes you to think all the way through the problem in a way you cannot do by talking, or in this case, by just racking your brain trying to find a way to express the terrible burden of emotions. There is nobody left of the two people who know this situation best, except you. Nobody else will fully understand.

I would also recommend, even though you did not ask me to make any recommendations, that you get with a counselor or pastor or therapist to talk this out once your writing is done. Others have survived and thrived after going through situations like this. There is a way, there is a technique, it is not random. Go see the experts.

 

[demlion]

Phil's story reminds me of a saying that was common among HS wrestlers in NW PA some years ago (at least that's where I heard it): "Pain is weakness leaving my body!"
Maybe that is sometimes true of a 16 year old wrestler, but for the rest of us, especially us old guys, it ain't so. Pain, especially chronic mental or physical pain, makes us weak. It destroys character. It makes us susceptible to lots of bad things, including...wait for it...diseases.

 

[demlion]

Hey @Phil's Rug: here's a song for you. Somehow it always makes me feel better.

 

[anon_xdc8rmuek44eq]

So 10 months later I find myself coming back to this thread, dem your post above stuck with me over that time frame and now I find my self replaying it over and over in my head. I shared a story in this thread about a friend of mine, unfortunately she passed away over the weekend. While we still don't know for sure what happened and won't know for a few days, she had been having some health problems as of late that had been getting worse and had been having seizures. Part of me is hoping it was from that, but another part of me knows it was possible she relapsed again and I hope that wasn't the case. She was trying so hard but the last few months had been very difficult on her.

I guess that brings me back to the part above in your quote that really sticks with me, about having people who you know care about you is key because there is a lot of truth in that. She had very few of those people in her life, and the people she needed that support from the most treated her the worst. Like I mentioned in another previous post, her family was very hard on her and not in a good way. I spent a lot of time trying push her in the right direction, helping her stay positive and remembering what she was fighting for. But her family spent all of their time tearing her down.

She lost a brother before Christmas, about the same time her father was diagnosed with a brain tumor, and they later discovered another one in his stomach and she relapsed. Despite how much they fought, she loved him very much. She would always tell me when she messed up, she was always open with me. Then just last month her mom was diagnosed with cancer and had went last Friday for surgery. Her own health had been getting worse and she was starting to show symptoms of what her mom had just gone through.

When she came back to stay with her dad last spring, he pushed her to come talk to me and in the same breath would tell her "but don't worry you'll F that up too". But she didn't we became very good friends and close over the previous months and we spent a lot of time talking and trying to help one another. Despite her history, she had a tremendous impact on my life in a very positive way. We both had our own, albeit very different demons and shared a common one in depression but she was there for me and helped me through a lot of stuff. She called me last Wednesday, and we talked for a while she sounded so tired and was down from all the family stuff that had been going on. She stopped on her way to town on Thursday for a few minutes to see me, we made plans to get together on Easter with her boy. Gave her a hug and said goodbye. Texted her Friday night to see how her mom made out, she texted me back to let me know that it went good. She passed away on Saturday at the age of 37.

She made some awful decisions and mistakes in her life, they cost her dearly and she was aware of that. But deep down she had a huge heart that very few people got to see because they couldn't see past her being anything other than an addict when she was so much more. She was a mother to a little boy that she loved dearly, she got her own place and she had been doing so good that she had just got more visitation time with him and was getting him every Saturday now. She was a daughter, she was a sister. She was an aunt to lots of nieces and nephews that loved her very much, three of which live across the road from me and I see them everyday. And I'm not afraid to admit it, she was my best friend.

I don't know if I was trying to make a point with any of that or maybe I'm rambling. Was in the middle of writing a letter for her to say my goodbyes and needed to take a break. I'm just at a loss right now.

Only 'liked' this because that's an honest, brutal, and in many ways, lovely tale of friendship and heartache and how for many, life is just too much. Reminds me of the words to my favorite song from Les Mis, 'I Dreamed a Dream;' the story is a bit different, but the point is the same...the last line says it all. Prayers for you and yours Phil.

There was a time when men were kind
When their voices were soft
And their words inviting
There was a time when love was blind
And the world was a song
And the song was exciting
There was a time
Then it all went wrong

I dreamed a dream in times gone by
When hope was high and life worth living
I dreamed, that love would never die
I dreamed that God would be forgiving
Then I was young and unafraid
And dreams were made and used and wasted
There was no ransom to be paid
No song unsung, no wine untasted

But the tigers come at night
With their voices soft as thunder
As they tear your hope apart
As they turn your dream to shame
He slept a summer by my side
He filled my days with endless wonder
He took my childhood in his stride
But he was gone when autumn came
And still I dream he'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather
I had a dream my life would be
So different from this hell I'm living
So different now from what it seemed
Now life has killed the dream
I dreamed

 

[Phil's Rug]

Phil, sorry for your loss. I hope you can find some small comfort in the fact that she surely treasured your friendship and that she is perhaps now in a better place. Thank you for the lesson on how to live a good life.

Thank you

Wow Phil, so sorry. I'm not sure I'd be strong enough to withstand all that either. Its a very sad story.
as for your last part I know exactly what you mean, I did the exact same thing (writing a letter to the person I lost) to rambling in a thread over the weekend.
I have to admit though it was sort of cathartic.
As the song goes....Ramble on...my friend.

Thank you, the saddest part is what I shared earlier in this thread and then again the other day is only a portion of her story and what she had to endure. She was very open with me and she told me things that she never told anybody else. Stuff that I can't share or ever even repeat and will haunt me for a long time.

BTW, @Phil's Rug, keep on writing. The process of finding the best way to express complex ideas in writing causes you to think all the way through the problem in a way you cannot do by talking, or in this case, by just racking your brain trying to find a way to express the terrible burden of emotions. There is nobody left of the two people who know this situation best, except you. Nobody else will fully understand.

I would also recommend, even though you did not ask me to make any recommendations, that you get with a counselor or pastor or therapist to talk this out once your writing is done. Others have survived and thrived after going through situations like this. There is a way, there is a technique, it is not random. Go see the experts.

I write a lot, she brought that out in me. I'm not good at expressing my emotions verbally and that would frustrate her at times. Putting it to paper is so much easier for me and she loved to read what I would write for her. We both loved poetry, hell she even managed to inspire me to write some of my own. What started out as one to surprise her kind of became a new outlet for me. Almost finished with the letter, but I keep going back to add to it. Hope to share it with our friends and her family on facebook in a couple of days.

When I found out on Sunday I went for a walk later in the day. Ended up at a nearby church where her and I would go to sit and talk in the parking lot out back. As I was sitting there trying to keep myself together and failing miserably, I was approached by an older woman. We started to talk and her husband joined us soon after. Turns out he was the pastor for the church. We talked for a little while, mostly about my friend and how I grew up in the area. When we finished they left me with their phone numbers and told me to call them anytime I needed to talk. They had no idea who I was or what I was doing there in that parking lot but they came up to me anyway and offered me some comfort and a shoulder to lean on. I plan on calling them later this evening to thank them again for making time with me on Sunday. I also explained to them that when we were kids we use to frequent the parking lot there because there wasn't much else around and that I usually end up walking around the parking lot in the evening for exercise as long as there wasn't something going on at the church so I didn't bother anybody.

The best part of our talk though and something that will always stick with me was when the lady paused to ask me my friends name during our conversation. She hadn't introduced her self when she approached me, she just asked me my name. When I told her what her name was, she choked up a bit and started to cry. When she told me why, I couldn't believe it but her and my friend shared the same first name and I know that would have made her smile.

Hey @Phil's Rug: here's a song for you. Somehow it always makes me feel better.

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Thank you for that dem, loved it and I know she would have loved that song also. One of her favorite songs was She talks to Angels by the Black Crowes.

Only 'liked' this because that's an honest, brutal, and in many ways, lovely tale of friendship and heartache and how for many, life is just too much. Reminds me of the words to my favorite song from Les Mis, 'I Dreamed a Dream;' the story is a bit different, but the point is the same...the last line says it all. Prayers for you and yours Phil.

There was a time when men were kind
When their voices were soft
And their words inviting
There was a time when love was blind
And the world was a song
And the song was exciting
There was a time
Then it all went wrong

I dreamed a dream in times gone by
When hope was high and life worth living
I dreamed, that love would never die
I dreamed that God would be forgiving
Then I was young and unafraid
And dreams were made and used and wasted
There was no ransom to be paid
No song unsung, no wine untasted

But the tigers come at night
With their voices soft as thunder
As they tear your hope apart
As they turn your dream to shame
He slept a summer by my side
He filled my days with endless wonder
He took my childhood in his stride
But he was gone when autumn came
And still I dream he'll come to me
That we will live the years together
But there are dreams that cannot be
And there are storms we cannot weather
I had a dream my life would be
So different from this hell I'm living
So different now from what it seemed
Now life has killed the dream
I dreamed

Thank you for that, it brought a tear to my eye.

 

[LionJim]

There are some good, strong men on this board. Let's never forget this.

 

[ivan brunetti]

Baltimore and all governments "have been dealing" unsuccessfully with the problem for a long time. The government in my area basically has no balls and is afraid of any threat of lawsuit. We need more Clint Eastwoods and fewer Jerry Browns.

Should we have vigilante justice across the board or just for drug dealers? If a police officer shoots and kills an unarmed citizen and isn't charged, should a family member of the victim get to play Bruce Willis and enact revenge?

 

[Nitt1300]

Until demand ends, there will always be someone who will supply. What you do with that is the hard part.