So if fans or media can't be critical because we haven't been a Div 1 coach on our resume then

[Jo Man]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

 

[Lion8286]

 

[Shadow99]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

As another poster pointed out, the "bad decision" was not the decision to go for 2 versus kicking the XP. I personally disagreed with it yet recognize that it wasn't a matter of Good-Bad, it was a matter of Risk-Reward...

...the "bad decisions" were those leading to a normally effective defense leaving receivers schematically uncovered / wide open along the sidelines and when running slants. Wide open MN receivers had much more to do with the outcome than an extra point or missed 2-point conversion, at which time, btw, PSU likely didn't have much confidence in subsequently stopping the MN offense thereafter (although in hindsight they DID stop it in the latter portion of the game).

 

[PearlSUJam]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

Davey Jones was the innovator of the troll.

 

[psu_1294]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

Stop it! Penn State was always chasing points. You are assuming that everything goes exactly the same if they kick the point. Maybe, probably not. What's to say they got into the position to kick a winning FG but....something went wrong, a bad snap, a blocked kick, a penalty or, God forbid, we "shank" it. You would be on your high horse saying we should have done something different, not left the balance of the game riding one play. Easy for you to say "With the benefit of hindsight"

Face it. Minnesota is very good. We are very good. 8-1 is not mediocre. Minnesota played better and deserved the W. We played well and almost pulled it out. We made mistakes. It's a game...damn it. Like the Gambler said..."Every hands a winner, every hands a loser"! We played our hand, played it well. Just got beat by a better hand that was played better.

Beat Indiana!

 

[BOSCO2]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

If Slade had run the play properly and scored would you still come on here to tell us that it was a bad decision? Chances are greater that you would say it was a good call. Chances are 100% that you wouldn't say a damn word.

 

[BBrown]

Stop it! Penn State was always chasing points. You are assuming that everything goes exactly the same if they kick the point. Maybe, probably not. What's to say they got into the position to kick a winning FG but....something went wrong, a bad snap, a blocked kick, a penalty or, God forbid, we "shank" it. You would be on your high horse saying we should have done something different, not left the balance of the game riding one play. Easy for you to say "With the benefit of hindsight"

Face it. Minnesota is very good. We are very good. 8-1 is not mediocre. Minnesota played better and deserved the W. We played well and almost pulled it out. We made mistakes. It's a game...damn it. Like the Gambler said..."Every hands a winner, every hands a loser"! We played our hand, played it well. Just got beat by a better hand that was played better.

Beat Indiana!

+100

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

What are you talking about. You don't have to be a coach to be critical...... but it would be nice once in a while if some posters tried to do it relevantly.

 

[Rip_E_2_Joe_PA]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

By the way... How do you be a Div 1 coach on your resume..... by standing on it?

 

[AWS1022]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

Criticizing a president will result in the same outcome as criticizing a coach...nothing.

 

[canuckhal]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

Every play impacts the outcome of the game. Chisena not catching the ball impacted the game. Penalties impacted the game. When two good teams play one another, every play is magnified. You could pick-out other plays rather than the call for two. For example, Pry dialed up a safety blitz with Wade, leaving a MN wide receiver uncovered, and the other safety was late getting to the WR. Result: Touchdown. If the RB doesn't pick up Wade, it might have been a sack rather than a TD. But the QB and RB read it and made the play.

The problem I have is how selective some people, in this case you, are about one specific play when it was multiple plays. On the two-point conversion, Slade got the ball with two blockers, so it was 3 on 2. For whatever reason, Slade ran to the sideline and the MN player was able to knock him out of bounds. Good play MN, bad play Slade. Franklin was asked about it and explained the decision. The analytical said go for it, his OC and DC said go for it. So he did. Your sole argument goes against the chart, so you seem to be basing your decision on a rule of not chasing points. So explain why you believe in this rule and why Franklin's chart is wrong.

The other problem I have is when people, in this case not you, want specific coaches to be fired, whether a positional or head coach. Why just choose one coach and why base it on one game?

I'm fine with being critical, but explain why you are critical and what you would have done differently so there could be a discussion.

In this game, Franklin recognized the lack of urgency on offense. Mentioned it, tried to fix it, but for whatever the players weren't responding. It happens. The team on both offense and defense did play much better in the second half. Just a little late. In the Michigan game, if there was an extra 5 minutes, Michigan likely would have won. In this game, Penn State would have likely won, but there was no extra 5 minutes.

 

[psuro]

Butt hurt snowflakes.

 

[NittPicker]

Using that logic, nobody can ever criticize anyone else unless they have the same job?? Don't like the cops because they gave you a ticket?? Then I guess STFU unless you are/were a cop. Not a teacher?? Then you can't complain about them.

 

[AWS1022]

Using that logic, nobody can ever criticize anyone else unless they have the same job?? Don't like the cops because they gave you a ticket?? Then I guess STFU unless you are/were a cop. Not a teacher?? Then you can't complain about them.

There’s a difference...you’re talking about people at the highest level of their profession. Criticizing a teacher is different than criticizing the top professor at Harvard. As far as the cop scenario....what exactly are you criticizing in terms of the speeding ticket? Were you speeding? If so, then your criticism is pretty stupid. And you can criticize anyone you want, it’s just that people on here criticizing Franklin don’t know as much about football as he does and it just sounds stupid....much like me criticizing a heart surgeon on his surgical decisions.

 

[danvillenit]

My beef is when fans say things like if Franklin hadn’t gone for two points we would have won. He lost the game. That is totally speculation. I could say if Clifford led Shorter we would have won or if Taylor made the tackle the first series we would have won by two points. There are dozens of plays that could have made the difference.

I was not sure about it when he tried it but for some reason it doesn’t stick out to me as the reason we lost.

 

[Ughhh]

There’s a difference...you’re talking about people at the highest level of their profession. Criticizing a teacher is different than criticizing the top professor at Harvard. As far as the cop scenario....what exactly are you criticizing in terms of the speeding ticket? Were you speeding? If so, then your criticism is pretty stupid. And you can criticize anyone you want, it’s just that people on here criticizing Franklin don’t know as much about football as he does and it just sounds stupid....much like me criticizing a heart surgeon on his surgical decisions.

So the people at the top are accountable to no one. Got it.

 

[Ughhh]

Hey it's Lion8286 crying cuz someone was mean to his favorite football coach!!

 

[PearlSUJam]

My beef is when fans say things like if Franklin hadn’t gone for two points we would have won. He lost the game. That is totally speculation. I could say if Clifford led Shorter we would have won or if Taylor made the tackle the first series we would have won by two points. There are dozens of plays that could have made the difference.

I was not sure about it when he tried it but for some reason it doesn’t stick out to me as the reason we lost.

Well now that Franklin, Pry and Rahne suck we won't have to worry about USC or FSU poaching them. (Unless we win out)

 

[AWS1022]

So the people at the top are accountable to no one. Got it.

No, by all means let the top surgeons, mathematicians, engineers, etc be criticized by people with room temperature IQ’s...after all, I’m sure their criticisms would be brilliant.

 

[Ughhh]

No, by all means let the top surgeons, mathematicians, engineers, etc be criticized by people with room temperature IQ’s...after all, I’m sure their criticisms would be brilliant.

Top surgeons, mathematicians and engineers are held accountable by people who became managers in large part because they weren’t top surgeons, mathematicians and engineers.

Not sure how you propose holding people accountable if you have this litmus test. An AD can’t fire a single coach by your metric

 

[AWS1022]

Top surgeons, mathematicians and engineers are held accountable by people who became managers in large part because they weren’t top surgeons, mathematicians and engineers.

Not sure how you propose holding people accountable if you have this litmus test. An AD can’t fire a single coach by your metric

We’re not talking about firing, we’re talking about second guessing every in game decision...you judge a coach by overall results, not play by play results. If they end up with poor records over however many seasons, then you fire them. You don’t fire them because you disagree with them going for two. That’s how you hold people accountable. And people are held accountable by their superiors, not the peons.

 

[Ughhh]

We’re not talking about firing, we’re talking about second guessing every in game decision...you judge a coach by overall results, not play by play results. If they end up with poor records over however many seasons, then you fire them. You don’t fire them because you disagree with them going for two. That’s how you hold people accountable. And people are held accountable by their superiors, not the peons.

A politician and other people in positions of high visibility are very much held accountable by “the peons”, especially those who need financing from “the peons”. Why do you think Franklin puts so much effort into PR?

 

[AWS1022]

A politician and other people in positions of high visibility are very much held accountable by “the peons”, especially those who need financing from “the peons”. Why do you think Franklin puts so much effort into PR?

But Franklin isn’t elected by the peons...and he puts effort into PR for a lot of reasons, mainly recruiting. I’m quite certain he doesn’t give a rat’s ass if fans agree with his in game decisions. The best way to destroy a football program would be to let the fans run it.

 

[razpsu]

As another poster pointed out, the "bad decision" was not the decision to go for 2 versus kicking the XP. I personally disagreed with it yet recognize that it wasn't a matter of Good-Bad, it was a matter of Risk-Reward...

...the "bad decisions" were those leading to a normally effective defense leaving receivers schematically uncovered / wide open along the sidelines and when running slants. Wide open MN receivers had much more to do with the outcome than an extra point or missed 2-point conversion, at which time, btw, PSU likely didn't have much confidence in subsequently stopping the MN offense thereafter (although in hindsight they DID stop it in the latter portion of the game).

They didn’t do that very often in the second half. The defense held them to 7 points. Franklin panicked with the 2 point try and should have trusted in his coaches and team to stop Minnesota and put points on the board. If he at least kicked a field goal with 10 min left we still win with a field goal at the end.

Fleck went into his 4 min offense with 11 minutes left and it should have cost him!!!

 

[JoeLion]

Decisions ....we all make them, are judged to be good or bad based on the outcome or consequences of those decisions in all aspects of life. I wonder how many folks would make a decision that they know would result in a bad outcome? Compound this by having to make decisions at the spur of the moment in a highly contested (sport or work environment) situation. It isn’t easy nor it does not always work out the way you had hoped. That’s life. What’s worst? Being indecisive.

 

[palmettolion]

I don't think criticism of coaching is out of bounds as long as it's done with the perspective that we don't have all the information that they do. We don't always know who is playing hurt, who has family issues, grade issues, what the actual play call was, whether or not it was executed properly, etc. . Basically we really only know what we see when watching, perhaps slightly more than that but not much. It makes us as fans reactionary.

Same with the players. I swear some of us act like we completely forget being an 18-21 year old kid in college and the s**t that can fill up your head.

 

[Ughhh]

But Franklin isn’t elected by the peons...and he puts effort into PR for a lot of reasons, mainly recruiting. I’m quite certain he doesn’t give a rat’s ass if fans agree with his in game decisions. The best way to destroy a football program would be to let the fans run it.

You're just way off on this if you think support of the fanbase isn't critical. In many respects, he coaches at the pleasure of the fanbase, as measured by revenue from donations, ticket sales, etc.

 

[AWS1022]

You're just way off on this if you think support of the fanbase isn't critical. In many respects, he coaches at the pleasure of the fanbase, as measured by revenue from donations, ticket sales, etc.

The support of the fanbase comes from winning and recruiting well, not from giving in to the whims of those fans.

 

[Ughhh]

The support of the fanbase comes from winning and recruiting well, not from giving in to the whims of those fans.

And when the results aren't there (in Franklins case, having reached a plateau he can't seem to breakthrough), then the methods are open for scrutiny.

Losing that football game on Saturday was absolutely ridiculous, should never have happened. He earned a ton of credit and love for the three games prior and he equally earned criticism for shitting the bed against ****ing Minnesota when 11-1 and either the CFP or Rose Bowl were squarely on the table

 

[LaJolla Lion]

You're just way off on this if you think support of the fanbase isn't critical. In many respects, he coaches at the pleasure of the fanbase, as measured by revenue from donations, ticket sales, etc.

The fans are behind him so it's not an issue. I mean you have a handful of idiots that aren't....but they are too dumb to bother with.

 

[Ughhh]

The fans are behind him so it's not an issue. I mean you have a handful of idiots that aren't....but they are too dumb to bother with.

You also have a handful of idiots who bitch about bitching and are easily triggered by the slightest criticism of Franklin.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

You also have a handful of idiots who bitch about bitching and are easily triggered by the slightest criticism of Franklin.

Naahh, most just call them out for being idiots and then they cry. I don’t take the idiots upset with Franklin seriously at all, but maybe some do.

 

[Ughhh]

Naahh, most just call them out for being idiots and then they cry. I don’t take the idiots upset with Franklin seriously at all, but maybe some do.

Yaahh the Franklin fluff crew is really easily triggered

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Yaahh the Franklin fluff crew is really easily triggered

Oh you’re one of the idiots? Ooops. That is funny. No hey, I’m sure you have another great coach lined up and ready to go. LOL, another gunsie disciple. You go get em TIGER!!!!

 

[AWS1022]

And when the results aren't there (in Franklins case, having reached a plateau he can't seem to breakthrough), then the methods are open for scrutiny.

Losing that football game on Saturday was absolutely ridiculous, should never have happened. He earned a ton of credit and love for the three games prior and he equally earned criticism for shitting the bed against ****ing Minnesota when 11-1 and either the CFP or Rose Bowl were squarely on the table

You mean a plateau which is higher than the program has been in years? You mean that plateau? You mean the plateau that most programs would kill to be on? That one? I’ll take it.

 

[NoVa Lion]

applying that logic no one should ever criticize a President like Trump unless you have been a former President. ??

I don't expect a perfect game from any coach at any level or players, refs, etc, but when a bad decision is made they certainly should be called out on it or perhaps asked the question as to what when into the decision. In this case it DID impact the outcome because they were chasing the points the rest of the game when they went for it on 4th & goal & didn't kick the FG on the 2nd to last red zone trip is the proof of that.

Curious, who told you could not be critical? If you were and someone disagreed with you that is NOT the same thing as saying you can't voice your opinion. Common theme is to cry like your voice is being silenced when it isn't.

 

[Ughhh]

Oh you’re one of the idiots? Ooops. That is funny. No hey, I’m sure you have another great coach lined up and ready to go. LOL, another gunsie disciple. You go get em TIGER!!!!

Lol at your meltdown, Sug, as if to prove my point

Nope said in the Rhule thread Franklin is as good as we can get right now, so we'll just have to accept that the Citrus Bowl/NY6 is as good as it gets and that the days of national relevance are behind us.

 

[danvillenit]

Lol at your meltdown, Sug, as if to prove my point

Nope said in the Rhule thread Franklin is as good as we can get right now, so we'll just have to accept that the Citrus Bowl/NY6 is as good as it gets and that the days of national relevance are behind us.

Lol. Days of national relevance. You mean the 80s. Yes they are well behind us. We’ve had one exceptional season in 33 years.

 

[LaJolla Lion]

Lol at your meltdown, Sug, as if to prove my point

Nope said in the Rhule thread Franklin is as good as we can get right now, so we'll just have to accept that the Citrus Bowl/NY6 is as good as it gets and that the days of national relevance are behind us.

Ohhhh,,, so you're taking the field over Franklin. Way to go out on a limb there!!!!! You poor dear.....I'm surprised you didn't throw in the "I hope I'm wrong" back out card. Maybe if you did more like the REC does at Bama, it would happen sooner. When you start buying fleets of Dodges or cars for the kids....look me up and cry some more then...I'll be all ears.

It's Wednesday, your meltdown is now 4 days strong....good job!!!!

 

[Ughhh]

Ohhhh,,, so you're taking the field over Franklin. Way to go out on a limb there!!!!! You poor dear.....I'm surprised you didn't throw in the "I hope I'm wrong" back out card. Maybe if you did more like the REC does at Bama, it would happen sooner. When you start buying fleets of Dodges or cars for the kids....look me up and cry some more then...I'll be all ears.

It's Wednesday, your meltdown is now 4 days strong....good job!!!!

Is that you or @Lion8286 in the GIF?? Is this after your fluff object got called out for chasing points or for covering for Ricky?