Southern Scuffle Lineup

[Lion-around]

If memory serves me correctly (and many times it doesn't) I believe teams are limited to 15 wrestlers at the Scuffle. So the question is who do you think Cael sends?

I think the easy part to that question is that he definitely sends the starters: Nico, Conaway, Gulibon, Zain, Nolf, Rasheed, Bo, McCutcheon, Morgan and Johnson. So who else goes?

I'm thinking he may select the open tournament winners: Hammond, Cortez, Joseph, Brills and Stout. That may seem the best way to select, but I would have also liked to have seen Zach and Dinmore.

Of course the NLO results could change this.

 

[Maddog]

If memory serves me correctly (and many times it doesn't) I believe teams are limited to 15 wrestlers at the Scuffle. So the question is who do you think Cael sends?

I think the easy part to that question is that he definitely sends the starters: Nico, Conaway, Gulibon, Zain, Nolf, Rasheed, Bo, McCutcheon, Morgan and Johnson. So who else goes?

I'm thinking he may select the open tournament winners: Hammond, Cortez, Joseph, Brills and Stout. That may seem the best way to select, but I would have also liked to have seen Zach and Dinmore.

Of course the NLO results could change this.

I think that those who are red-shirting cannot be part of the 15 that we use for scoring, but they can pay their own way and wrestle unattached. So I think the most likely backups to be part of the 15 are Hammond, Beitz, and Brill; with the other two being selected most likely from among Moss, Law, Morelli, and Phipps (if he is healthy).

 

[Lion-around]

I think that those who are red-shirting cannot be part of the 15 that we use for scoring, but they can pay their own way and wrestle unattached. So I think the most likely backups to be part of the 15 are Hammond, Beitz, and Brill; with the other two being selected most likely from among Moss, Law, Morelli, and Phipps (if he is healthy).

You're right on the scoring statement as the red shirts would wrestle unattached and have to pay their own way.

Just wondering if Cael is looking for an early read on how potential starters next year (Cortez, Dinmore, Joseph and Stout) would perform in a good tournament.

 

[El-Jefe]

Maddog is mostly correct about the travel roster. Unless the Scuffle rules changed this year, there is a cap on the total tournament registration, but not for any teams. Teams can take as many wrestlers as register before tournament registration is saturated, but only 15 as scorers, and the shirts must pay their own way.

I'm not clear about the rules for Cortez -- he's not shirting, but not sure if his 1-yr B10 ineligibility means he must pay for his own travel. If so, the coaches might let him instead go to Midlands, which would give him similar tournament exposure and allow him to spend the holidays at home.

 

[Lion-around]

Maddog is mostly correct about the travel roster. Unless the Scuffle rules changed this year, there is a cap on the total tournament registration, but not for any teams. Teams can take as many wrestlers as register before tournament registration is saturated, but only 15 as scorers, and the shirts must pay their own way.

Thanks El-Jefe for the clarification. I thought 15 was the cap period per team, and was not aware that 15 was the cap for scorers.

 

[CSauertiegPSU]

I think we'll see Hammond, Beitz, Brill, Moss (bonus points were huge last year) and I have no clue on the last guy

 

[jtothemfp]

I LOVE the Scuffle rules. It's such a fun way to get an early glimpse of redshirting frosh.

Super bummed to read that the rumor of Arizona State coming was only that.
http://gomocs.com/news/2015/10/29/scuffleteams.aspx?mc_cid=58b70638f6&mc_eid=3e4018b0af

 

[RoarLions1]

The Scuffle rules are the same as last year:
-- The Scuffle is a Team-Scored event, with scoring rules for Advancement, Bonus, and Placement identical to the B1G and NCAA Tournaments.
-- 15 potential "scorers" allowed for each team, with the highest scorer at each weight contributing to the team score (ie. 10 scores COUNT)...already explained by others above.
-- Cap for total wrestler registrations in the past has been 350 (I believe), but last year there were near 400 total wrestlers.
-- While the potential SCORERS are capped at 15, a team can bring as many as they want, with any above the 15 wrestling unattached (and must pay all expenses to retain a RS). I remember Minny bringing 21 a few years back, and Appalachian State having 22.
-- It is not open to unrostered wrestlers. Correction: Very few unrostered wrestlers, Macri and Walter from Finger Lakes among less than 5 entered last year, there must be other restrictions.
-- Pre-seeds are normally released 2 days prior to the tournament, so we should see the seeds on December 30th.
-- The benefit of having talented RS's go, in addition to them gaining experience, is that they keep other teams from scoring if they win. Jason Nolf, last year finishing 2nd, knocked all other team's except Nebraska (Green) down one spot and reduced their scoring.

 

[El-Jefe]

Thanks, Roar. Also, IIRC, registration is not capped for any weights, only at the tourney level.

Looking at the roster, I see 7 most likely non-starter candidates for the Scoring 15: Moss, Cody Law, Beitz, Hammond, Morelli, Brill, Phipps. My guess: Moss, Beitz, Hammond, Law, Brill. (Phipps is injured, maybe he makes that list if healthy in time.) I could see all of them going if healthy, just not all scoring.

For the shirts: Cenzo, Stout, Dinmore. Cortez unless he goes home to Midlands. Maybe Tristan Law if the family plans to go see Cody wrestle.

 

[RoarLions1]

You are correct El-J. Every weight class last year was bracketed at 64 wrestlers, with a ton of byes. Since it's mostly a team tournament, there's not as large a disparity between weight classes as there are in true "open" tournaments. Last year, the highest number of wrestlers at a weight class was 43, and the lowest was 36. At open tournaments, 125, 133, and 285 almost always have far fewer participants.

 

[dunkej01]

I LOVE the Scuffle rules. It's such a fun way to get an early glimpse of redshirting frosh.

Super bummed to read that the rumor of Arizona State coming was only that.
http://gomocs.com/news/2015/10/29/scuffleteams.aspx?mc_cid=58b70638f6&mc_eid=3e4018b0af

If PSUs #2 guys have any impact on the team race, I wonder if the organizers will change these rules. Meaning we have a couple #2s that could make the champ semis and others who could make consi semis. It depends really on who goes, but if guys like dinmore, joseph, moss, hammond, etc it will make wrestle backs and thus the team race interesting.

 

[NoVa Lion]

If PSUs #2 guys have any impact on the team race, I wonder if the organizers will change these rules. Meaning we have a couple #2s that could make the champ semis and others who could make consi semis. It depends really on who goes, but if guys like dinmore, joseph, moss, hammond, etc it will make wrestle backs and thus the team race interesting.

Why would the organizers change the rules just because it changes the outcome? Isn't why that rule is there in the first place and they have already had an impact in prior years? See comment about Nolf placing 2nd last year. Also, Dinmore and Joseph are redshirting so if they go they would compete unattached and so can't score, but they can displace others, including our guys.

 

[dunkej01]

Simple because if PSUs #2 is knocking off guys that would place or place higher and this hurts the team race, then coaches, fans and wrestlers will complain. Maybe they wont, but my spidey sense says they will complain.

I like the tournament just the way it is. But jealously and envy leads to change in my experience and not for the good. hope not.

 

[NoVa Lion]

Simple because if PSUs #2 is knocking off guys that would place or place higher and this hurts the team race, then coaches, fans and wrestlers will complain. Maybe they wont, but my spidey sense says they will complain.

I like the tournament just the way it is. But jealously and envy leads to change in my experience and not for the good. hope not.

dunk, I could see the fans complaining but I don't see Smith (I don't see anyone except OK State that will hang with us at the Scuffle or the wrestlers will complain. If they do they will really sound like whiners. Hey, your backup(s) finished ahead of my starter(s) and that's not fair. It would be like saying the tournament isn't fair because you are better than us. I can definitely see some fans (you know who you are) saying that though.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

The Scuffle rules are the same as last year:
-- The Scuffle is a Team-Scored event, with scoring rules for Advancement, Bonus, and Placement identical to the B1G and NCAA Tournaments.
-- 15 potential "scorers" allowed for each team, with the highest scorer at each weight contributing to the team score (ie. 10 scores COUNT)...already explained by others above.
-- Cap for total wrestler registrations in the past has been 350 (I believe), but last year there were near 400 total wrestlers.
-- While the potential SCORERS are capped at 15, a team can bring as many as they want, with any above the 15 wrestling unattached (and must pay all expenses to retain a RS). I remember Minny bringing 21 a few years back, and Appalachian State having 22.
-- It is not open to unrostered wrestlers.
-- Pre-seeds are normally released 2 days prior to the tournament, so we should see the seeds on December 30th.
-- The benefit of having talented RS's go, in addition to them gaining experience, is that they keep other teams from scoring if they win. Jason Nolf, last year finishing 2nd, knocked all other team's except Nebraska (Green) down one spot and reduced their scoring.

That cap is 500, and has been for the last couple of years (ever since they went from roughly 22 teams to roughly 32 teams a couple of years ago).

As far as the event not being open to unrostered wrestlers, that's not true either. Every year several Finger Lakes Wrestling Club guys make the trip. Further, by NCAA rules, if a tournament is an open (allows redshirts) they have to allow other unrostered wrestlers as well. That said, matches against those unrostered wrestlers do not officially count as wins and losses for the rostered wrestler.

 

[Lyco1990]

If PSUs #2 guys have any impact on the team race, I wonder if the organizers will change these rules. Meaning we have a couple #2s that could make the champ semis and others who could make consi semis. It depends really on who goes, but if guys like dinmore, joseph, moss, hammond, etc it will make wrestle backs and thus the team race interesting.

Happened a few years ago, Ed and Matt were in finals.

 

[SetonHallPirate]

Lyco, I remember that...I also remember having to post, with a straight face, that "Ed Ruth and Matt Brown have never met"...technically true, but laughable in reality.