Spring Camp News Thread....
- Thread starter Judge Smails
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Penn State wide receiver Irvin Charles hauls in a pass as wide receiver Chris Godwin looks on during practice held at the StubHub Center in Los Angeles, Ca. on Dec. 28, 2016. The Nittany Lions will take on USC in the Rose Bowl on Jan. 2. Joe Hermitt | jhermitt@pennlive.com
Irvin Charles
Irv Charles is all about upside. He was the author of an 80-yard catch-and-run score against Minnesota last season. But that was his lone highlight. The Lions are replacing top wideout Chris Godwin and Charles is a 6-4, 227-pound receiver who could be in line for more work. A strong spring will be crucial.
Here is Penn State coach James Franklin on the potential of young wideout Irv Charles: "Irv is a guy that has got a lot of ability, as much ability probably as any guy that I've been around in college. Him and Juwan are very similar in that way, and he showed some real strong flashes, and I think what you're looking for in all young players is consistency. "There's a lot of really talented players that can do it once out of every four times. But you know, can you get to two out of every four; can you get to three out of every four. And that's when you have a chance to really start kind of making a move."
This kid should excite everyone. I really think RS FR breakout season will happen
The best thing about Jenkins apparently coming on strong is that he'll still have two years after this coming season, hopefully after he's put it all together. If he can reach that all-too-often elusive potential, he'd sure make life easier for whomever is the QB/RB through 2019.
It's continually stunning to me how different this program is from where it was in Joe's last years. The depth of talent is unprecedented, the coaching represents best practices. No more assistant coaching slots getting filled with former players with no coaching experience (or any qualifications at all other than a PSU letter). No more tired old assistants hanging on till they get a pension. No more Derek Foxes and Anthony Scirrottos being asked to do things that they are not athletically equipped to do. No more people getting starting jobs by seniority or by default.
I don't have any illusions about how hard it will be for PSU to reach its lofty goals for this season -- so many other great programs are in the way. When you get back to the top 10-15, the differences are very slight and games can turn on small, sometimes random things. Even for a great team (ask Alabama) it takes quite a bit of luck to win every game. College football is incredibly competitive.
In so many ways this season is going to be more difficult than last year for these players because of the expectations.
It's going to be a good year but let's try to enjoy it and not expect anything to come easily. PSU is not going to win any games because they're better, because they're entitled. They're going to win because they go out and beat people. I keep going back to what Franklin said when he was hired. He said he might not be the best coach out there, but he will not be outworked by anybody. And that attitude just pervades the program. I hope he can keep this team hungry like they were last year.
I don't have any illusions about how hard it will be for PSU to reach its lofty goals for this season -- so many other great programs are in the way. When you get back to the top 10-15, the differences are very slight and games can turn on small, sometimes random things. Even for a great team (ask Alabama) it takes quite a bit of luck to win every game. College football is incredibly competitive.
In so many ways this season is going to be more difficult than last year for these players because of the expectations.
It's going to be a good year but let's try to enjoy it and not expect anything to come easily. PSU is not going to win any games because they're better, because they're entitled. They're going to win because they go out and beat people. I keep going back to what Franklin said when he was hired. He said he might not be the best coach out there, but he will not be outworked by anybody. And that attitude just pervades the program. I hope he can keep this team hungry like they were last year.
I love what James Franklin is doing. It's 2017 and it will be great to look forward to every Saturday being a competitive game AND wining many more than we lose. But, I can do that without trashing JVP and the men who worked for him.
The difference in the offensive line from the first two years for Franklin is stark. Dowrey, Gaia, and Laurent received a lot of the playing time in the interior of the line. Dowrey was a 2 star defensive tackle with 5 offers, including East Carolina, Marshall, and Richmond. Gaia was a 3 star with regional offers. Laurent was a 2 star with no other power 5 offers. Mangiro was a 3 star. The OL was untalented and about 8 deep with scholarship players. It's amazing we were able to squeeze winning seasons out of 2014 and 2015.
You are aware that one can present valid criticisms about the way the program was operated in the latter Paterno years, right? Especially considering the way the program operates now, recognition of the clear deficiencies in those coaching staffs and the way that staff handled player personnel decisions is not the same as "trashing JVP and the men who worked for him". It's not personal against them, it's just reality, and nothing that the poster said was incorrect or unfair.
Its a matter of opinion. Last October I started a thread defending JF, after the Michigan loss. Few, had any good things to say about him. Now, he and his staff are sainted. What a difference 9 wins and less than one season has made. Sorry, I appreciate everything about Joe. He was more than a coach. I've moved on and really appreciate James Franklin as well. Different men, different eras, different game. I can admire the genius of both. Glad both made their homes at PSU.
I was never part of the "Joe must go" crowd (remember them?) I felt that Joe had MORE than earned the right to go out on his own terms- but the last few years were not his finest, and the staff WAS lacking. It's fair to say that and still hold Joe in the highest respect.
the problem with going down that road is you get in pissing battles that don't need to happen. Lots of what the previous poster said was incorrect. One of JVP last hires was neither a former player, or someone with no qualifications except a letter. It was someone who worked their way up through the ranks, just like many of JVP other hires. Many of the other statements are clearly just opinions, and not facts (No more Derek Foxes and Anthony Scirrottos being asked to do things that they are not athletically equipped to do. No more people getting starting jobs by seniority or by default.) That's an opinion, not a fact.
Relative to the depth of the team, it seemed pretty good to me, just look at what BO'B was able to despite the NCAA allowing so much talent to freely transfer.
IIRC before the shiat hit the fan, PSU was undefeated in the B1G and was ranked in the top 12.
So there is no need to bring this up, because your reality is not everyone's.
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I believe it was called "Curves" by some others in the biz.
Times are different now, thankfully.
see this is an opinion that not everyone shares. As you mentioned you are not an expert, but I would consider John Thomas one. I think he ran the program the way he thought it best. So lets' move on.
Are the professionals that deemed him unworthy of another opportunity to lead a D1 program experts enough for you?
We are a much better program now in every conceivable way then 2000-2011. Not a mystery.
It's just reality. I loved Joe, I supported his right to work into his 80s, as long as he wanted, even though the program had settled into a perennial 9-3, 8-4, Outback Bowl-in-a-good-year kind of program.
With the benefit of hindsight, I wouldn't support his right to work into his 80s. With the benefit of hindsight, I think Joe was doing a disservice to those players he recruited by not being able to give them state of the art training and coaching. He always said he would get out of the way if someone else could do it better -- but he didn't. He worked hard at trying to lower fans' expectations, and I think he meant well, it was partly so that his successor wouldn't have such a hard time. But in the end I think it was the wrong message for his players. The program was smug and self-satisfied; it was all about glories past.
Joe has been a hero of mine since I was 9 years old, and he will always be. But let's be truthful when we talk about the program in Joe's last years. It was a lot of mediocrity and complacency wrapped around two coaches -- LJ Sr. and Vandy -- who were the only reason PSU was still competitive. They had some good years.
As for the assistants, they were awesome people (except for one). And most were competent. But when you have 10-15 HS all-Americans at a position and you're not consistently producing Big Ten caliber players, and when your unit isn't B1G competitive 2 years out of four -- I'm sorry, it's time to retire and let someone else have a go. When year after year you lose skill players to Rutgers and Maryland and Pitt and Virginia because they don't have confidence in your offensive system ....
But really my post wasn't about how bad things were. They weren't bad. 9-3 and the Outback Bowl isn't BAD. It's just amazing how much BETTER things are now.
I have no position on John Thomas, but I do remember when O'Brien came in, some unnamed person on the PSU staff took a look at the equipment in the weight room and said it belonged at a Curves. Don't know if that's fair, but it was pretty funny.
Over Joes last 3 full seasons we won 29 games, James 25; 2 of JVPs last 3 seasons had better records than James best season (at over 80 years of age). Perhaps we should be thankful for the job James is doing and be thankful for the years we had under Joe.
I'll admit it is a funny statement, but it is just somebody's opinion. We don't need to bring all of this stuff up any more, in my opinion. Last year should excite everyone, and hope it can continue. so how they did it before is irrelevant, other than to say it must have worked pretty well as PSU won a lot games over the years!
PSU was 11-2 2 of Joes last 3 full seasons - that is not 9-3
The Thomas program would be a bigger problem today, than it was back then.
Judge had a pretty good thread going talking about the here and now, I rather stay on that than debate the S&C program of 6 yrs ago.
So Joe did it twice in his last what, 18 years, and James did it once in his first 3. Joe was great but we vastly underachieved after 1994, and especially after 1997. Is what it is.
I hate setting high expectations for the team (for myself personally) because I take losses pretty hard. But it sure as hell feels like last year was for real and something even more special is brewing for this year. All things considered, it's hard to believe that we can even have this kind of optimism so soon. Hats of to Franklin and the coaching staff
Soooo let's get back to talking about Spring camp 2017!
I'm loving the clips I'm seeing, esp of Irv Charles and JJ. Those two look like monsters! I mean plenty of NFL teams would kill to have two 6'4'' 220+ pound beasts who run ~ 4.4s and can make contested catches
I'm loving the clips I'm seeing, esp of Irv Charles and JJ. Those two look like monsters! I mean plenty of NFL teams would kill to have two 6'4'' 220+ pound beasts who run ~ 4.4s and can make contested catches
Not exactly an apples to apples comparison. Franklin had 65 scholarships to start out with and a roster thinned by transfers and spotty talent recruited under the sanctions.
bwifan
Well-Known Member
I remember the endless arguments of the HIT program vs free weights on this board ...
Not to prolong this, but it's a different world now. I understand why Joe did the HIT thing, but I don't think it would work today. Everybody is just so damned big.
They are raving about Juwan Johnson. Had offers from Bama, OSU, Michigan, etc coming out, he's putting it all together now.
it had been a problem for a while. Oddly, Joe was one of the first to really focus on S&C as a priority, then he became literally the last coach to use HIT as the sole aspect of his S&C program. Some programs used aspects of it, or broke up routines with it, but they also used free weights, did squats, deads and cleans
when referring to the use of machines, Craig Fitz hit the nail on the head. Football is played on your feet, not sitting at a machine, so you need to train on your feet
Hell yeah! It's coming together people!
Cothran was starting to become dominant by the end of the season. If he stays healthy, he should have a big year and make his way into the draft.
I disagree. He was showing flashes, but he also was inconsistent. He had no push against SC, and he had inconsistent moments against Wisconsin, remember Wisky ran all over us, in that game and put up 31 points. Michigan State did not punt in the first half against us.
Our defensive line needs to improve this year. That means everyone.
Nobody, me included, expected Wright to do much last season. Maybe Jenkins can have a similar impact if called upon this season. He certainly is a formidable obstacle.
I know photo angles can be funny but 62 is listed at 6'4, while 71 is listed at 6'6, yet in the picture 62 looks taller.
