St Francis dropping to D3

[Delco Lion]

D 1 no longer feasible. It will be interesting to see if anyone else will follow.

'The world of D1 has changed:' SFU athletics to move to D3, beginning in fall of 2026

Saint Francis Univerity has announced

wjactv.com

 

[bcspsu]

D 1 no longer feasible. It will be interesting to see if anyone else will follow.

'The world of D1 has changed:' SFU athletics to move to D3, beginning in fall of 2026

Saint Francis Univerity has announced

wjactv.com

I think that many schools even bigger than St. Francis will make the difficult decision to do this. The way that NIL has devolved into play for pay is destroying college athletics and making it totally untenable for all but the schools in the P4 conferences to subsist, and even several of those schools like Pitt are struggling to survive in the sports that drive the athletic program.

College athletics now are similar to baseball, in that you have a team like the Dodgers that has a payroll over three times as large as the Pirates because there's no salary cap. It's ridiculous for a league to operate like that with such salary disparities just like it's ridiculous that we now have outright play for pay in college athletics.

 

[PurposePitch]

I think that many schools even bigger than St. Francis will make the difficult decision to do this. The way that NIL has devolved into play for pay is destroying college athletics and making it totally untenable for all but the schools in the P4 conferences to subsist, and even several of those schools like Pitt are struggling to survive in the sports that drive the athletic program.

College athletics now are similar to baseball, in that you have a team like the Dodgers that has a payroll over three times as large as the Pirates because there's no salary cap. It's ridiculous for a league to operate like that with such salary disparities just like it's ridiculous that we now have outright play for pay in college athletics.

But it wasn’t outrageous that many were making millions off the efforts of those boys, as if they were professionals, but these people making millions/billions got to pay the boys in the form of a free education they didn’t have the time, or natural proclivity, to take advantage of.

I’ll be glad if more programs go D3 … it’ll reset those programs to focus more on the student portion of “student-athlete.” That’s long been gone in major college sports. They’ve been pay for play, without the pay, for some time now.

 

[bcspsu]

But it wasn’t outrageous that many were making millions off the efforts of those boys, as if they were professionals, but they got to pay them in the form of a free education they didn’t have the time, or natural proclivity, to take advantage of.

I’ll be glad if more programs go D3 … it’ll reset those programs to focus more on the student portion of “student-athlete.” That’s long been gone in major college sports. They’ve been par for play, without the pay, for some time now.

Yes, I agree. Other than the drop in prestige of not being a D-1 school, this move probably will be good for St. Francis because they'll play schools that mostly have students playing athletics rather than athletes pretending that they're students, and the school also will save a lot of money.

Also, I have no problem with the concept of NIL. However, it never was intended for boosters to pay players just to join a team. Rather, it was intended to compensate players for having their names on the backs of jerseys that are sold at the Campus Bookstore, or appearing in commercials, or having their image appear in a video game. Thus, it was intended only for the best players like a Barkley or Parsons to get compensated for these things. It wasn't intended for an anonymous back up defensive end like Vilbert to use to support a family.

 

[Obliviax]

D 1 no longer feasible. It will be interesting to see if anyone else will follow.

'The world of D1 has changed:' SFU athletics to move to D3, beginning in fall of 2026

Saint Francis Univerity has announced

wjactv.com

I have been told that a championship is a championship is a championship. I think PSU should drop down and win dozens because a championship is a championship.

More seriously, I think we are going to see more and more of this.

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

My brother is the president of a D3 school, and knew about St. Francis for a few months. They postponed the announcement because of the NCAA tournament. He said you’ll see a good number of schools doing the same. He said some will surprise the hell out of you.

 

[WaylonJ]

My brother is the president of a D3 school, and knew about St. Francis for a few months. They postponed the announcement because of the NCAA tournament. He said you’ll see a good number of schools doing the same. He said some will surprise the hell out of you.

As they lack the cash bonanza of D1 football, could we see traditional Big East basketball powerhouses going this route?

 

[MartyInLawrenceville]

As they lack the cash bonanza of D1 football, could we see traditional Big East basketball powerhouses going this route?

I think it gives Big East schools a leg up. They don’t have a football team to pay, it all goes to hoops.

 

[bison13]

I forget the probationary/transition rules with regard to scholarships, I think the current players can stay at the school and still keep their scholarships but no new recruits can get anything more than merit/financial aid. I wonder how many of the players in FB/BB will just enter the portal and find a place they can play for free

 

[sss]

I forget the probationary/transition rules with regard to scholarships, I think the current players can stay at the school and still keep their scholarships but no new recruits can get anything more than merit/financial aid. I wonder how many of the players in FB/BB will just enter the portal and find a place they can play for free

How many of those players will be sought after by the paying schools? I suspect a limited number.

 

[19333lion]

Financial Darwinism, survival of the wealthiest and greediest.

 

[bison13]

How many of those players will be sought after by the paying schools? I suspect a limited number.

Correct, very few, and the ones who are will only go to similar level schools like SFPA. I would project that some of the roster just decide to stay there and beat up some D3 schools the next year or two.

 

[Nbergbuck]

I think that many schools even bigger than St. Francis will make the difficult decision to do this. The way that NIL has devolved into play for pay is destroying college athletics and making it totally untenable for all but the schools in the P4 conferences to subsist, and even several of those schools like Pitt are struggling to survive in the sports that drive the athletic program.

College athletics now are similar to baseball, in that you have a team like the Dodgers that has a payroll over three times as large as the Pirates because there's no salary cap. It's ridiculous for a league to operate like that with such salary disparities just like it's ridiculous that we now have outright play for pay in college athletics.

MLB is the pro version of what D1 college sports are becoming. Teams like the Pirates and Royals will scrape along but have no realistic chance in a long season. Teams like the Dodgers and yankees simply have too much of everything for small market teams to compete against them. It will be interesting to see if some small market teams eventually fold.

 

[PurposePitch]

MLB is the pro version of what D1 college sports are becoming. Teams like the Pirates and Royals will scrape along but have no realistic chance in a long season. Teams like the Dodgers and yankees simply have too much of everything for small market teams to compete against them. It will be interesting to see if some small market teams eventually fold.

Small market teams love the current structure. They're making money, hand over fist, and they don't even have to try to be good or competitive. I believe we've discussed this before. The MLBPA would be more willing to accept a hard(er) salary cap if there was a salary floor. The "small" market teams have no interest in a salary floor, because that would require them to actually spend, and they already have it so good, they don't want to upset the apple cart. So, no, they won't fold. They're making tens of millions (in actual dollars, not in accounting dollars) per year and appreciating by hundreds of millions, into the billions. And they're selling their fans that they're just too poor to compete, and you guys are lapping it up.

 

[Nbergbuck]

Small market teams love the current structure. They're making money, hand over fist, and they don't even have to try to be good or competitive. I believe we've discussed this before. The MLBPA would be more willing to accept a hard(er) salary cap if there was a salary floor. The "small" market teams have no interest in a salary floor, because that would require them to actually spend, and they already have it so good, they don't want to upset the apple cart. So, no, they won't fold. They're making tens of millions (in actual dollars, not in accounting dollars) per year and appreciating by hundreds of millions, into the billions. And they're selling their fans that they're just too poor to compete, and you guys are lapping it up.

I don't lap it up. Haven't been to a game in years. One does have to wonder if fans will continue to go to watch a team that hasn't finished above 500 in 10 years. .

 

[Safety Blitz]

I was really surprised when Mercyhurst made the opposite decision and moved its athletic programs up to D-1.

 

[PSU4U]

I think that many schools even bigger than St. Francis will make the difficult decision to do this. The way that NIL has devolved into play for pay is destroying college athletics and making it totally untenable for all but the schools in the P4 conferences to subsist, and even several of those schools like Pitt are struggling to survive in the sports that drive the athletic program.

College athletics now are similar to baseball, in that you have a team like the Dodgers that has a payroll over three times as large as the Pirates because there's no salary cap. It's ridiculous for a league to operate like that with such salary disparities just like it's ridiculous that we now have outright play for pay in college athletics.

It's time.

 

[LandoComando]

Honestly does St Francis dropping down even register as news? Unless major programs follow it doesn't mean make. St Francis has never been able to compete with the top tier programs. That's not a new circumstance because of NIL.

 

[bcspsu]

Honestly does St Francis dropping down even register as news? Unless major programs follow it doesn't mean make. St Francis has never been able to compete with the top tier programs. That's not a new circumstance because of NIL.

Their mission never was to compete with Duke in basketball or OSU in football. Their goal was to compete with similar D-1 schools to them, which there are many now. The fact that they made the decision that this no longer is feasible just tells you where D-1 athletics are going, and many other schools are going to make this same decision, even schools that are much bigger than St. Francis.

 

[LandoComando]

Their mission never was to compete with Duke in basketball or OSU in football. Their goal was to compete with similar D-1 schools to them, which there are many now. The fact that they made the decision that this no longer is feasible just tells yuo where D-1 athletics are going, and many other schools are going to make this same decision, even schools that are much bigger than St. Francis.

But then those D1 schools shouldn't have been in D1. They can still compete with other comparable programs.
I believe, they simply don't want to pay athletes--their option and they dropped down. I have no problem with that but if they're unwilling to pay them they should drop down.

 

[Frabjous]

My brother is the president of a D3 school, and knew about St. Francis for a few months. They postponed the announcement because of the NCAA tournament. He said you’ll see a good number of schools doing the same. He said some will surprise the hell out of you.

Maybe Pitt will throw in the towel and go D3 in football but stay D1 in basketball (?).

 

[bcspsu]

Maybe Pitt will throw in the towel and go D3 in football but stay D1 in basketball (?).

Pitt football is a lot closer to MAC level right now than Big 10 or SEC level, and I don't see that getting better. I don't see them ever dropping D-1 football, but I could foresee them eventually playing at a lower D-1 level than where they are now.

 

[bison13]

I dont think the NCAA will do anything until a couple of the smaller conferences like the NEC or Big Sky or MEAC needs to disband due to teams leaving. The only reason they would even care then is because of the auto bid that the conference gets will change the basketball tournament a bit. Once that opens up another at large bid you could see some wholesale changes to the entire landscape due to the two main conferences wanting guarantees for a number of teams each year

 

[heckmans]

D 1 no longer feasible. It will be interesting to see if anyone else will follow.

'The world of D1 has changed:' SFU athletics to move to D3, beginning in fall of 2026

Saint Francis Univerity has announced

wjactv.com

1. It's weird to drop from D1 to D3. Whole division in the middle to consider.
2. From the beginning of college sports' transition away from amateurism, I've been saying this. In the end, I think there will be a small (maybe as many as a couple dozen) Elite division. The vast majority of D1 football schools will be in a second level that more closely resembles CFB from 25-30yrs ago.
My thoughts have adjusted slightly, however. I originally thought the Elite level would be 15-20 teams max and did not think PSU would be one of them. I was seemingly wrong about the amount of money PSU alums appear willing to shell out. So now, here is my prediction...

There will be a P2 of the SEC and B1G. Some percentage of current schools will eventually be relegated to a 2nd tier (or outright paid to leave the league) because at some point, the big boys will grow tired of sharing with Purdue and Vanderbilt. Another option would be a tiered revenue sharing model based on each school's revenue generation.
The 2nd tier gets a little fuzzy. How much does revenue decline in this 2nd tier? TV will still want content, but how much will they pay for the 2nd tier? Will alums pony up for this 2nd tier? In the end, I think there is probably further striation and a complete overhaul of Divisions. Some revenue generating sport leagues (P2 above) will probably leave the NCAA, but at some tier, it probably remains inside the NCAA with the other sports.
Lots of variables that are hard to predict, but in 20 years I don't think college sports looks anything like it does today.

 

[Obliviax]

Their mission never was to compete with Duke in basketball or OSU in football. Their goal was to compete with similar D-1 schools to them, which there are many now. The fact that they made the decision that this no longer is feasible just tells you where D-1 athletics are going, and many other schools are going to make this same decision, even schools that are much bigger than St. Francis.

Yep. It is complex. You can stay in D1, be a doormat, and make a lot of money being the Washington Generals. The Pittsburgh Pirates come to mind and hope that one day, they catch lightning in a bottle but really just take the crumbs that the Phillies, Dodgers and Mets allow them.

The other side is to drop down, be a big fish in a small pond, and hope that you can create a fanbase with a winning record.

But we can now see that the current paradigm with limitless xfers and NIL have made it next to impossible to Moneyball your way to a good record. You just cannot compete with the bluebloods of the sport. So you move up, knowing you will get good money losing, or you move down and try to sustain a competitive product.

 

[bison13]

1. It's weird to drop from D1 to D3. Whole division in the middle to consider.
2. From the beginning of college sports' transition away from amateurism, I've been saying this. In the end, I think there will be a small (maybe as many as a couple dozen) Elite division. The vast majority of D1 football schools will be in a second level that more closely resembles CFB from 25-30yrs ago.
My thoughts have adjusted slightly, however. I originally thought the Elite level would be 15-20 teams max and did not think PSU would be one of them. I was seemingly wrong about the amount of money PSU alums appear willing to shell out. So now, here is my prediction...

There will be a P2 of the SEC and B1G. Some percentage of current schools will eventually be relegated to a 2nd tier (or outright paid to leave the league) because at some point, the big boys will grow tired of sharing with Purdue and Vanderbilt. Another option would be a tiered revenue sharing model based on each school's revenue generation.
The 2nd tier gets a little fuzzy. How much does revenue decline in this 2nd tier? TV will still want content, but how much will they pay for the 2nd tier? Will alums pony up for this 2nd tier? In the end, I think there is probably further striation and a complete overhaul of Divisions. Some revenue generating sport leagues (P2 above) will probably leave the NCAA, but at some tier, it probably remains inside the NCAA with the other sports.
Lots of variables that are hard to predict, but in 20 years I don't think college sports looks anything like it does today.

#1 its not really that weird when you think about it. If you are wanting to cut scholarships, just go all in. D2 travel would be ok for St Francis since they are in PA, who already has a whole conference, but for many D1 schools who will drop, it's easier on transportation to go D3 with many more options for conferences and academic similarities.

 

[Op2]

But it wasn’t outrageous that many were making millions off the efforts of those boys, as if they were professionals, but these people making millions/billions got to pay the boys in the form of a free education they didn’t have the time, or natural proclivity, to take advantage of.

I’ll be glad if more programs go D3 … it’ll reset those programs to focus more on the student portion of “student-athlete.” That’s long been gone in major college sports. They’ve been pay for play, without the pay, for some time now.

I agree the higher ups made a lot of money off them but also part of the "they" making money was the non-revenue sports. Schools used the extra money football and men's basketball brings in to support the non-revenues, which can't support themselves.