Stanford & CS Bakersfield

[Eastern HWT]

Did anyone see that two teams got together and wrestled four matches this weekend.

133 CRich (CSB) was given a backup 125 lber who was 0-3 to beat up on TWICE and get two more matches in order to qualify for atlarge birth.

141 RWoods (141) was given a backup 141 that was 0-2 to pin and tf for the same reason.

if these guys or Decatur, who missed weight, are given bids to Nationals, the NCAA should just make it an open tournament and let everyone bring a full line up!

This situation looks bad for wrestling!

Rich Wins Twice in Stanford Friendly - California State University at Bakersfield Athletics

Bakersfield, Calif. – Chance Rich won twice in an extra-match friendly with Stanford on Saturday, at the John Antonio Wrestling complex. Rich, the Pac-12 runner-up

gorunners.com

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Maybe Tom Brands could bring Max Murin over and let Bartlett beat up on him. Would that be considered a “quality win”?

 

[El-Jefe]

Did anyone see that two teams got together and wrestled four matches this weekend.

133 CRich (CSB) was given a backup 125 lber who was 0-3 to beat up on TWICE and get two more matches in order to qualify for atlarge birth.

141 RWoods (141) was given a backup 141 that was 0-2 to pin and tf for the same reason.

if these guys or Decatur, who missed weight, are given bids to Nationals, the NCAA should just make it an open tournament and let everyone bring a full line up!

This situation looks bad for wrestling!

Rich Wins Twice in Stanford Friendly - California State University at Bakersfield Athletics

Bakersfield, Calif. – Chance Rich won twice in an extra-match friendly with Stanford on Saturday, at the John Antonio Wrestling complex. Rich, the Pac-12 runner-up

gorunners.com

Decatur can't go. If he missed B10s for a virus reason, he could. Missing weight? He's out.

As for Rich and Woods -- how is that any different from all of the Extra matches every school wrestled the entire year? Their matches aren't the problem. The problem is the idiotic NCAA rule that placing high enough in the qualifying tourney wasn't good enough.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

Woods could have fftd at the right time and got his minimum 4 matches. He rolled the dice and lost. Of course, his coaches may have had these extra matches lined up JUST IN CASE, so yeah why not go for it.

How is it different? Cmon Jefe, do you really think the B10 would have allowed (Cael) to call up (Maryland) and make his own matches for (Bartlett) ? They obviously controlled our scheduling this year. What bothers me is that this is permitted by some conferences, but not all.

Agree that the placement thing is A problem, but I think this may have opened up a can of worms,that only some teams will be able to benefit from.

Fire away.

 

[rmg78]

I think the problem is that the matches were not even an idea until after neither guy qualified via conferences. They held extra matches after the conference tournament which is simply strange. Rich was already eligible for an at large bid but got the extra matches so his win% would be over 70% which is a criteria for selection and Woods, well we all know. In my opinion, which means nothing, neither deserve an at large as they all knew the rules before the start of the season.

 

[El-Jefe]

How is it different? Cmon Jefe, do you really think the B10 would have allowed (Cael) to call up (Maryland) and make his own matches for (Bartlett) ? They obviously controlled our scheduling this year. What bothers me is that this is permitted by some conferences, but not all.

I don't have to think that. I have evidence.

Cael and Goodale arranged extra matches without a dual, and B10 approved it.

 

[rmg78]

I don't have to think that. I have evidence.

Cael and Goodale arranged extra matches without a dual, and B10 approved it.

Could you see Cael doing that after conferences, just so one of the wrestlers would meet a criteria to be eligible for an at large? I do not think anyone is questioning the extra matches but that they were after the conference championship in which one wrestler did not meet the criteria to be selected.

 

[El-Jefe]

Could you see Cael doing that after conferences, just so one of the wrestlers would meet a criteria to be eligible for an at large? I do not think anyone is questioning the extra matches but that they were after the conference championship in which one wrestler did not meet the criteria to be selected.

Sure, why not? It's legal.

I really don't understand why people have a hard time with this. The problem is the idiotic rule. Even the NCAA realizes it, which is why this work-around is legal.

It's so rare that the NCAA realizes a rule is idiotic and issues a correction -- let alone a correction in the same year. This might be the first time the fans insisted on sticking with the idiocy.

 

[Reslo]

Could you see Cael doing that after conferences, just so one of the wrestlers would meet a criteria to be eligible for an at large? I do not think anyone is questioning the extra matches but that they were after the conference championship in which one wrestler did not meet the criteria to be selected.

Well thankfully neither the NCAA nor the B1G has EVER changed the previously agreed-upon rules during the season to benefit a particular program.

 

[RoarLions1]

One benefit of rules is preventing chaos, and I'm all for that. This year was a year like no other, and the modified rules had unintended consequences, not unusual at all for new rules. There was an out for athletes by way of a waiver process, and now we're seeing other legal work rounds. In the same boat, every coach in the country would do what it takes to get their wrestler to the NCAA championships. We wouldn't even be having this discussion except for the 4-match rule, which looking backward now, sort of Monday-morning quarterbacking, wasn't such a good rule imo.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I don't have to think that. I have evidence.

Cael and Goodale arranged extra matches without a dual, and B10 approved it.

Not questioning your appreciated insiderism, just wondering if the only reason B10 agreed to this is because we had a dual scheduled with them in the first place?

Are you implying that if Cael wanted to get extra matches with Nebraska, B10 would have agreed? Serious question.

 

[El-Jefe]

Not questioning your appreciated insiderism, just wondering if the only reason B10 agreed to this is because we had a dual scheduled with them in the first place?

Are you implying that if Cael wanted to get extra matches with Nebraska, B10 would have agreed? Serious question.

I don't wish to go down the rabbit hole of what ifs. The bottom line is: which do we value more, the wrestling or the artificial one-time rule written when everybody acknowledged they didn't know what they were doing?

If we value the wrestling more: Woods placed high enough at his conference tourney to qualify for nationals.

 

[Reslo]

I don't wish to go down the rabbit hole of what ifs. The bottom line is: which do we value more, the wrestling or the artificial one-time rule written when everybody acknowledged they didn't know what they were doing?

If we value the wrestling more: Woods placed high enough at his conference tourney to qualify for nationals.

100% correct. Real Woods missing out on nationals due to an arbitrary number of matches not being met would have been shameful. Past results show he's deserving. Good for Stanford for figuring out a way to get him an opportunity. Also related, screw Stanford for dropping wrestling.

 

[PSUbluTX]

I agree that this feels like Real Woods is gaming the system (make no effort to wrestle even once during the "regular season" and then parachute in at the conf tourney to snag a scarce qualifying spot to nationals from those who did wrestle).

OTOH, I suspect that if Kerk (or another PSU point-scorer) were in the same position I'd want Cael to do anything within the rules to get him to nationals.

The Kerk hypo feels a bit more palatable because we know he was prevented from wrestling earlier due to an injury/surgery. I don't know Woods' reason for not wrestling earlier other than what's been widely discussed (he was busy with school). But ultimately that doesn't matter. If the current rules allow for this option, I can't fault Woods for playing by those rules.

 

[ss7]

I thought the importance of the 4 match minimum, as it relates to auto-bids, was that conferences MAY give an non-championship auto-bid to a lower placing wrestler that met the 4 match minimum.

Was there ever a definitive statement from Woods' conference that this would be happening?

 

[nitlion6]

Could you see Cael doing that after conferences, just so one of the wrestlers would meet a criteria to be eligible for an at large? I do not think anyone is questioning the extra matches but that they were after the conference championship in which one wrestler did not meet the criteria to be selected.

There is no doubt in my mind if the Big10s were 3 weeks prior to the NCAAs and Cael had a kid who should be a pick, but simply needed a match or two they would arrange a match or two. Rutgers planning on sending wrestlers to PSU during the Maryland dual to get kids matches comes to mind.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

I agree that this feels like Real Woods is gaming the system (make no effort to wrestle even once during the "regular season" and then parachute in at the conf tourney to snag a scarce qualifying spot to nationals from those who did wrestle).

OTOH, I suspect that if Kerk (or another PSU point-scorer) were in the same position I'd want Cael to do anything within the rules to get him to nationals.

The Kerk hypo feels a bit more palatable because we know he was prevented from wrestling earlier due to an injury/surgery. I don't know Woods' reason for not wrestling earlier other than what's been widely discussed (he was busy with school). But ultimately that doesn't matter. If the current rules allow for this option, I can't fault Woods for playing by those rules.

Jefe said temporary, and you verify, Did not realize this was a one time rule as someone here recently said guys were always allowed to get matches after Conf turny.
I hope this is the case because picking and choosing who you want to get your extra matches with is a recipe for clusterfukism.

 

[82bordeaux]

Well thankfully neither the NCAA nor the B1G has EVER changed the previously agreed-upon rules during the season to benefit a particular program.

I thought there was already a tOSU thread going?

 

[El-Jefe]

Jefe said temporary, and you verify, Did not realize this was a one time rule as someone here recently said guys were always allowed to get matches after Conf turny.
I hope this is the case because picking and choosing who you want to get your extra matches with is a recipe for clusterfukism.

In normal years, we send wrestlers to Opens chock full of backups and D2/D3 opponents.

 

[82bordeaux]

Hey, I just wanted to let you know that I drove down to State College and let Beau kick my ass three times. His win % is much improved now. But unfortunately I missed weight. 149 was a bad cut for me.

 

[STAND with PRIDE]

In normal years, we send wrestlers to Opens chock full of backups and D2/D3 opponents.

After conference tourney?
Woods (and or his coaches) chose who he wanted for extra matches,and you didnt see him beating down Nick Lee’s door.

 

[RoarLions1]

I thought the importance of the 4 match minimum, as it relates to auto-bids, was that conferences MAY give an non-championship auto-bid to a lower placing wrestler that met the 4 match minimum.

Was there ever a definitive statement from Woods' conference that this would be happening?

If I understand your comment and question, the conference had no say. It was the NCAA's rule that all pre-allocated spots had to be earned by wrestlers with 4 or more matches. For the AQ's, it didn't matter. By earned, I mean it was similar to past years, going by their placement at their qualifying tourney, but skipping over wrestlers that did not meet the 4-bout requirement. It was only later we learned about the waivers and other work rounds.

 

[Grass]

I want to see the best wrestlers wrestle at NCAA's. To say this year is odd would be an understatement so doing odd things to get wrestlers into the tournament isn't that big of a deal to me. Woods didn't look like himself so who knows how he wrestles at NCAA's, but I for one would like to see him there. He deserevs some credit for trying to graduate from Stanford in three years.

 

[SWPA]

In normal years, we send wrestlers to Opens chock full of backups and D2/D3 opponents.

You mean like Missouri's regular schedule every year?

 

[fronk71]

Looks like both wrestlers got in so it worked!