I was on Intermat and someone suggested KOT moving up next year. I do not want to start or spread that rumor as there is nothing more than a mention on the site. Interested in thoughts if this were to happen. I don't think KOT would be able to deal with Starocci's strength or his clean finishes. KOT may have a quickness advantage but seems to be minimal to me. Also don't think KOT is big for his weight so no need to make the move.
Starocci v. KOT
- Thread starter kps7987
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I think quickness would be a disadvantage for KOT in this match.
I think the only two people to even push Cstar is an inshape and aggressive Lewis or a teammate named Brooks. Neither will happen. Unless Cstar is hurt but then again he beat Lewis with a broken hand.
I learned after his first title too never doubt Carter’s abilities again.
If Keegan has aspirations of becoming a 4xer, he needs too stay put.
If Keegan has aspirations of becoming a 4xer, he needs too stay put.
I think Askren already gave this rumor some juice when he suggested earlier in the year that Keegan could possibly bump up after this season.
The big winner in such a move would be Alex or Levi.
It's not apples to apples given the comparative gaps between the weight classes, but I recall when DT moved up to 86kg in his early matches it was very noticeable how much quickness he'd lost. He gradually got quicker once his body settled in but as applied here, it's not a given that you'll retain your quickness when you add pounds (and DT at 86kg is still not as quick as he was wrestling at 165lb in college).
Carter is as quick as anyone at 174 so I agree I don't see O'Toole as having an advantage there even if he's the same wrestler at 174. If O'Toole bumps up his bigger hurdle is getting stronger to fight with Starocci. I'd love to see him bump up though, it'd be good for the sport (and 174) to have a 2x-er going after Starocci as he tries to get into the 4x-er club.
Spitballing here, but a lot probably hinges on if Mesenbrink transfers in.
Mesenbrink wrestled 2 matches at 165. Was he just wrestling up, or is 157 to much of a cut now? Mocco has 1 year left.
Best case would be Mesenbrink makes 57 for a year and keep O'Toole at 65 with Mocco 74.
If he can't, tough choices will have to be made. Is the lineup better with Mesenbrink 65, O'Toole 74 and squeezing out/forcing up Mocco to 84? Or are they better served with Mesenbrink on the bench for a year?
The ORS could come into play as well. Both O'Toole and Mesenbrink qualify for it, so adds some options.
Very good questions to ask! I'm leaning towards Mitch deciding to go there so would be very interesting to see how that all plays out. Missouri building a nice team there, Mesenbrink is a beast... they would be lucky to get him.
They also have blue chip recruit Clayton Whiting coming off redshirt at 184 which complicates things a bit more.
I’m one of Keegan’s biggest fans but Starocci is about the worst possible matchup for him. Keegan is an incredible scrambler and likes to get into strange positions where he usually comes out on top. Carter is one of the cleanest finishers out there and his baseline defense and strength will give O’Toole fits. Asken has kind of made it sound like him moving up is a forgone conclusion and if Messenbrink does come in it probably makes the most sense roster wise. Keegan is good enough to be a championship contender at pretty much any weight he goes but looking at guys that could give him trouble I put Carter at the very top of that list. I would love that move as a PSU fan. I like 165 better for Alex or Levi and don’t see it mattering a ton for Starocci. Mizzou is going to be stacked though especially if Messenbrink does transfer in. In my eyes they are probably the second best team at least on paper. 157 is there one big hole with Jacques graduating so if Messenbrink can make 157 for a year it solves a lot of problems. I’m just not sure he can make that weight any longer
Keegan can’t be a 4 timer. Took 3rd his freshman season. Unless he is in line for a covid fifth season as well. I really don’t know anymore. I can’t wait for all of the covid years to be done!! Just looked at FLO’s article which lists all the national qualifiers eligibility and Keegan has 2 years still so he can be a 4Xer plus one time 3rd.
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He's moving up in 2024-25 according to Askren. Whether that changes or changed, haven't heard him opine.
I think it would be a very good match. One of very contrasting styles.
I think it would be a very good match. One of very contrasting styles.
A 2 time champ wrestling a 3 time champ doesn’t excite you?! I’m with you that Carter is better but you are really discounting how good Keegan is
Personally I don’t think anyone is discounting how good KOT is. I just bel ieve the wrestler to beat Starocci to be similar in strength which I don’t think KOT can be in a year. Courtesy-wrestling is difficult against him because he is so clean on his finishes. It would be interesting to see percentages of finish compared to leg access.
Edit: typo in name
Edit: typo in name
Plus O'Toole is a JR world champ, and pinned the U23 world champ in that tourney. He's a dangerous opponent, and a guy who scores a lot of points.
Carter is just more dangerous.
He said O’toole would wrestle 165 again next year and then move up. Been awhile tho
CStar is the champ! I’ve watched with amazement over the last three yrs and no one has really threatened him since Kem beat him at bigs. The guy won nationals with a busted hand a year ago! And no one noticed until Cael comments afterward. He seems to toy with most opponents and just loves the workout. He is a good as it gets. He will get gold in 2028… then be a champ in MMA. CStar is special. Hoping he extends his PSU career by OlyRS next year, then returning for his last two seasons and being a 5 timer. He’s the champ!
KOT is a stud, but Carr wrestled poorly after having beeten him twice. Carter would beat him everytime and twice on Sunday. low scoring completely contolled matches. If KOT tried to force something big it would end like the Labs finals match. I thought Carter was the best pound for pound wrestler going into this year and nothing has happened to change my views. There are many great guys including his buddy Brooks, but Carter is money in the bank.
That’s interesting that you would make him the favorite. Where do you think KOT has the advantage? And we are talking next year so it would be very difficult to put on good muscle mass to match Carter In that time. Maybe in a few years the strength would not be as big of a disadvantage.
Like I said, in a one-off, I'd pick Starocci. But in a series, I'd bet on KOT's creativity and skillset to figure him out, like he did to Carr. He made big improvements each match. Strength is not the end all be all for a guy like KOT.
I'm no nostradamus. That's just what I'd predict. I do think Starocci is pretty underrated because he's boring fwiw.
I would say sample size is too small to determine that KOT has figured out Carr. We don’t know if we saw someone figure the other wrestler out or have just a specific advantage on that day in a sampling size of three total matches. I recognize strength is not the only factor, but in the match up with these two, I would think the one distinct disadvantage coupled with the clean wrestling skills of Carter I’m not seeing how you have come to the conclusion.
Sorry to change the subject but does PSU wrestle Iowa next season and if so will it be at Carver?
You could say the exact same thing about Carr with actual match data to back it up and yet.....
It's not worth arguing back and forth over because it's unknowable at this point. Two potential 4xers. You have to pick against one of them.
boss gets a dollar, i get a dime. that's why i post on company time
Don’t be hoarding toilet paper honey I’ll just shit at work.
Is this based on the fact that opposing wrestlers consistently close the gap on Carter over a series of matches? I know that you have to pick one stud over the other, but your reasoning is flawed. Perhaps you could surmise that KOT can get funky and score some points on Carter with scrambling ability that CS hasn't yet seen. But to say that KOT would figure Carter out after a few matches doesn't match the data. The data says the opposite.
Not arguing with your pick, just the logic.
Nolf was a funk king as well and Carter sees him regularly, that strategy wont work either.
And you could say the opposite too. KOT figures people out. Carter doesn't get figured out. Something's got to give. I don't think we'll ever see this match, but it would be fun.
And I do think Carter is exactly the kind of wrestler that KOT struggles with which is why I'd pick him in the first match, somewhat confidently.
The match that would be really fun to watch would be KOT and Mikey Labriola.
They'd look like two squirrels trying to bite each other's nuts off.
They'd look like two squirrels trying to bite each other's nuts off.
