I'm not at all discounting your thought process as you are one of my favorite reads on these boards and obviously you have a vast knowledge of wrestling....but... the one thing you may be missing is the power. Kyle Dake had horsepower that allowed him to overcome tricks, and I see this same skill/talent in Carter. There is no substitute for raw horsepower. I love David Carr the person and wrestler more than most, but David is not in the same power stratospere as Carter. Carter would win the hand fight which would win the attack positions which would result in positional advantages KOT would not be able to overcome imo. When a wrestler has good speed, crazy power,crazy confidence, and some of the best positioning I have ever seen I just can't see him losing to a great scrambler who can't match his power.
Starocci v. KOT
- Thread starter kps7987
- Start date
All very fair and good analysis. KOT has been a favorite of mine for years so maybe I have too much faith in him figuring things out. I just see the adjustments he made against Carr and think he could make similar ones against Carter over the course of a series.
I'm definitely more in the middle than when I first thought. Carter is basically designed to beat a guy like KOT.
I am a big fan of KOT myself, and even though Carr is my guy I was very worried every time they wrestled. David is great in so many areas, but he is not overly powerful and he is not at all an elite hand fighter. I think he can improve both of these areas and will need improvement here if he wants to be a serious contender at the senior level. Love discussing wrestling without calling each other names or insulting any of these young stars. On a side note I couldn't be happier for Murin and Warner did what Warner does by showing up and battling. Still alot to be proud of in Iowa City even with Spencer taking the loss.
One last thing I'd add is that, much like Askren, KOT's scrambling often overshadows his fundamentals. He's a great leg attacker and rider. Underrated handfighter as well. Watch the way he handles Amine in the semis for how he deals with a powerful, explosive, and positionally sound wrestler.
Not to say he's going to out handfight or muscle Carter, but he might hold up a little better than you'd expect.
Not to say he's going to out handfight or muscle Carter, but he might hold up a little better than you'd expect.
I may be a homer but I don't see anybody riding Carter for a period (when he needs to get out, I'm not talking being up 6-1 and shortening the match without dumping too much energy because the riding time doesn't matter) but I can see KOT struggling under Carter. Carter also seems so positionally sound to me so unlike where AB has gotten caught the last 2 years by Amine and Coleman, his pressure is more measured. I think this would be a great match but it would take more than a year for good weight to be put on and maintain quickness to match Carter IMO.
Askren didn't have the quickness KOT has, but Ben had amazing power much like Carter. We can all agree it would be a really exciting battle.
You could tell Ben had old man strength when he was 20 years old. You just had to look at his love handles to see that.
It seems like we all are discounting just how good Keegan is but really I think it shows just how great Carter is. Carter is a bad matchup for everyone but for KOT he is probably the worst matchup possible. Carter is the cleanest finisher out there and KOT is best in scramble positions. Starocci also has elite baseline defense which I can’t see KOT penetrating. O’Toole is so dangerous but most of his pinning combinations and a large part of his tds come from getting into crazy scrambles where he is absolutely elite. No doubt KOT is a better scrambler than Labriola but Labs is still one of the best in that area and Carter absolutely shut it down and punished him with his strength, defense, and super clean finishes. Keegan is my favorite non PSU wrestler who I absolutely love watching but Starocci is just the worst possible matchup for him. I would love to see them wrestle freestyle though. Think Carter still wins but feel like it’s a lot more competitive. Keegan’s run to his junior world title was super impressive where he decked 2 very high level opponents. I have a hard time seeing how Carter can make 74kgs but that seems like the perfect weight for KOT. He should absolutely be in the mix for 2028 if not 2024
Wasn't sure if you are tweaking him or asking. So, the answer is we wrestled at Carver last year and State College this year. Both matches were mandated by the Big10. If we wrestle Iowa this year it will because Cael and Tom agreed to an out of conference match. Everybody knows Iowa owes PSU a State College, but everybody also knows short of being forced to Tom won't bring his team to State College.
I was wondering also, is there a schedule for how many conference meetings then how many years off?
The scheduling model suggests YES. Top team from east & top team from west wrestle.
Normally I'd be all for Iowa coming to PA but next season I think I want PSU to be the road team. If Carter and Aaron are in the lineup, I'd so much be looking forward to the standing ovations those two 3 timers will receive in CHA.
If Im cael, Im not taking my team back into that hate-hole unless the NCAA forces me.
It’s just asking for trouble.
It’s just asking for trouble.
The look at the end be like “dude whats so funny, Im not playin” hahaha
Really? I know you know this subject matter better than anybody else on the board. When did they change that? 2012-13 was the first time since PSU entered the Big10 they weren't scheduled and Cael and Tom did the whiloe "Tweet" thing to announce the OOC match. It has been 2 and then a break since.
Those guys looked like they had never seen a cradle before. Before they got decked, I’d wager neither of them had actually been cradled, ever. KOT was getting smashed by one and losing to the other late before he hit a move he’d never, ever hit on a US-based Burroughs, Dake, Nolf or Starocci level wrestler.
This current version of Carter is a different animal. Too strong physically and mentally for KOT. Anything from a low scoring controlled win, to something a little wider if CS could either turn him or capitalize on some sloppy shots in the third with counters. I just don’t see anyone in college having anything for Carter.
And you still aren’t giving KOT enough credit. If cradling guys that elite is so easy then why aren’t we pinning all foreigners with it? I doubt most of them have ever been cradled either using your logic. He also wasn’t getting smashed by Bayramov who was 5th at 2021 senior worlds and a U23 world champion. It was 5-1 before the sequence where he pinned Bayramov. Even if he didn’t get the fall it was going to be 5-3 or 5-5. I’m not saying the same moves would work against Carter but his scrambling ability does play better in freestyle. That was the point I was making. Here’s the match. Bayramov dominated the first period. He looked like a lot of foreigners in the second where the US guys come back and punish them with their conditioning.
74 kg Quarterfinal - Turan Bayramov, AZE vs Keegan O'Toole, USA
74 kg Quarterfinal - Turan Bayramov, AZE vs Keegan O'Toole, USA
www.flowrestling.org
This might sound nuts but Carter is starting to look like the best PSU wrestler of all time. First of all he seems to have mastered defense to the point that he's the Floyd Mayweather of wrestling. Secondly as others have noted he's just ridiculous at finishing, if he gets to a leg it's two points. Third, he's also shown that he doesn't even have to finish since he's so good at riding. And lastly he also seems to have figured out how to have plenty of firepower left for the end of matches. Being able to relax during a match and not expend all of your energy isn't talked about very often but he seems to have mastered that as well.
So PSU has a wrestler that:
You can't score on
Can finish as good as anybody
Can ride anybody
Has a bottomless gas tank
I think KOT better figure out a way to hold 165.
So PSU has a wrestler that:
You can't score on
Can finish as good as anybody
Can ride anybody
Has a bottomless gas tank
I think KOT better figure out a way to hold 165.
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I don’t think we’ll ever see it unless Cstar comes back to try and win a 5th title. Given enough time to get bigger O’toole would obviously pose a threat. Would be a great match and would love to see it. I have no idea how Cstar makes 74kgs but I’ve heard him say that’s his plan so hopefully we see it in freestyle.
There are a bunch of 165lbers that should move up. They aren’t beating Cstar but it’d be much easier to get on the podium.
On a side note, Jacob Warner had the highest GPA of any graduating senior for Iowa wrestling. Don't know who or how many that might be, but impressive none the less.
Good for Jacob! 1.6 is nothing to sneeze at!
