These are some big declines.
https://www.inquirer.com/business/student-debt-pennsylvania-colleges-penn-state-20191127.html
https://www.inquirer.com/business/student-debt-pennsylvania-colleges-penn-state-20191127.html
Steep enrollment declines at PA State colleges
- Thread starter Delco Lion
- Start date
Good! It's been far too many years that the "college for all" mantra has been beaten into kids heads leading to a massive glut of over educated and under employed 20 somethings with crushing student loans. Maybe folks are finally realizing that with some specialized training after high school you can get a job earning a living wage.
Though this idea worries me - "At the very least, colleges may find themselves graded by metrics like graduation rates or student diversity to get more funding." That sounds like the kind of thinking that led to the massive failure that was "No Child Left Behind". I'm sorry but it would be incredibly difficult to get increased student diversity in some of the more rural state schools. And as far as graduation rates - that's just another reason for the colleges to support grade inflation and watering down the curriculum to push kids through.
Though this idea worries me - "At the very least, colleges may find themselves graded by metrics like graduation rates or student diversity to get more funding." That sounds like the kind of thinking that led to the massive failure that was "No Child Left Behind". I'm sorry but it would be incredibly difficult to get increased student diversity in some of the more rural state schools. And as far as graduation rates - that's just another reason for the colleges to support grade inflation and watering down the curriculum to push kids through.
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There's nothing wrong with working for a living except that too many people bought into the idea that they wouldn't have to.
The faster that these de facto indoctrination camps go out of business, the better.
How about repairing the robots & machinery that will be taking everyone's jobs?
As a free market enthusiast I say let the market determine if a college stays open. Some of these overpriced Administrators and professors should start seeking to put their expertise at use in the private sector.
Seems like this is going on all over the country. From the article PA Schools are down 8% from the peak in 2010, nationwide enrollment is down 5%.
I wonder if they did a study on the # of administrative positions and see if there was a corresponding decline?
College enrollment in fall 2019 is expected to be about 5 percent lower than the peak of 21.0 million in fall 2010
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372
I wonder if they did a study on the # of administrative positions and see if there was a corresponding decline?
College enrollment in fall 2019 is expected to be about 5 percent lower than the peak of 21.0 million in fall 2010
https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=372
How many of those jobs exist today? Or existed over the last 10 years when Pa made the drastic funding cuts? Those jobs today are done by people with college degrees.
Who is going to design and build those robots and machines? It won’t be people without college degrees...
Obviously about half of these colleges need to be closed. Consolidation to reduce costs is part of the answer. However, the politicians won't allow any college in their district to be closed. The colleges need to be viewed like businesses.
The reality is that there is a significant proportion of students graduating who will never repay their student loans because the only jobs they can get are low paying.
Many of them would be better off repairing refrigerators at least in financial terms.
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I agree 100%. I'm surprised PSU Branch campuses arent fiaring better. They are a good alternative to high cost Universities. Looks like they need some consolidation.
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Nor will it be the people taking on $50K+ debt to study sociology or communications.
I don't think the decline in enrollment has much to do with people deciding to pursue technical training like the poster you responded to suggested, but don't kid yourself that everyone coming out with a college degree actually needed it or learned much at all.
Well put - a welder, plumber, electrician, HVAC tech, automotive technician et al. need not benefit from things like literature, history, social sciences, and business
No doubt PA could do a better job of providing funding for its public universities. On the other hand, the universities need to take a look in the mirror and determine how to cut costs. Do the schools really need all these fancy amenities? Do they really need all those administrators?
Also it would help if the federal government got out of the student loan business and changed the law to allow student loan debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
Also it would help if the federal government got out of the student loan business and changed the law to allow student loan debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
Needing some services, I was stunned at the bill a plumber presented. A friend remarked, "The only people who can afford a plumber are plumbers."
So people are finally realizing that meaningless degrees are well.........meaningless!!
I'm not suggesting that no one go to college, but that too many people go to college just because they've been told their whole lives "you're going to college". They wind up in majors with little to no job prospects, or fail out in the first year or two when they realize that they should have gone to a community college / trade school or right into the world of work to gain on the job skills and work up from there.
You can't deny that there is a glut of over educated and underemployed folks in the workforce. That is why I'm happy to see that enrollments are down and the system may be starting to correct itself.
The cost of PA state colleges are outrageous when compared to other states, especially in the South. Makes it very difficult to lift oneself out of poverty.
The story of the young man attending Lock Haven and commuting by bus from Williamsport to class really gets me. Years ago the young man would have no problem attending and even living on campus to focus on his academics. We do a very poor job in PA with providing access to affordable education for low income kids. Most rural counties don’t even have access to affordable community colleges.
An example is Schuylkill County and much of the coal region. There are no community colleges in the immediate area. I had many classmates attend garbage school like McCann School of Business and the like. These places prey on low income students who lack options like a community college. High tuition, non transferable credits and no real job training. These places are shams that should be shut down.
The story of the young man attending Lock Haven and commuting by bus from Williamsport to class really gets me. Years ago the young man would have no problem attending and even living on campus to focus on his academics. We do a very poor job in PA with providing access to affordable education for low income kids. Most rural counties don’t even have access to affordable community colleges.
An example is Schuylkill County and much of the coal region. There are no community colleges in the immediate area. I had many classmates attend garbage school like McCann School of Business and the like. These places prey on low income students who lack options like a community college. High tuition, non transferable credits and no real job training. These places are shams that should be shut down.
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I spent my first two years at Ogontz--which was very good for me in many ways (so did my younger sister, though my younger brother went directly to UP). Financially, it was a big deal, as my day was out of work at the time and I got a scholarship for most of my costs the first two years.
Interesting...
I've thought for awhile that some of the Branch Campuses need to close or be used for something else.
I mean does Dubois, Fayette, Greater Allegheney, Hazelton, New Kensington, Shenango and Wilkes Barre make any sense at all?
It seems some of them, at least location wise, could be merged into 1.
I was also surprised at the fall off at York and Altoona.
+100. When I looked at the Branch Campus map some of them just dont make sense, location wise.
Hazleton does surprisingly well.
Ones that don't are DuBois, Fayette, Schuylkill, Shenango, and Wilkes-Barre.
but according to that Hazelton has fallen off 52% to only 619.
Just seems to me that looking at the locations that a lot of them could be consolidated.
As an IUP Alumnus, this really doesn't surprise me. Like anything else, the state schools can give u a great education, but you have to put the time in. Indiana is even worse than state college in terms to location...there is Indiana which depends on the university and then you have nothing for miles. Couple that with lots of alcohol, dated facilities and just a lack of things to do and its a bad combo. IUP opened alot of doors for me, but there were alot of people that didnt belong anywhere near a university.
I was surprised by that as well. The Hazleton campus seemed to be doing pretty well there for a while. When I was a teenager in Hazleton in the 90’s I worked with plenty of PSU-Hazleton kids at the typical part time jobs kids get. Most were from NJ. At one point they were building new dorms at Hazleton to handle these kids, but now they appear to be empty.
The campus at PSU-Hazleton is very nice and pretty well equipped for a branch campus but it must be a ghost town today with 600 kids.
The enrollment at Mansfield is shockingly low. I know several smart and successful people who attended Mansfield and one has to think the University cannot continue much longer as enrollment continues to dip.
People are finally taking a consumerist view of the ROI of higher education. It's long overdue. Certainly some students have the intellectual curiosity at 18 to leverage what a baccalaureate offers, but for others that curiosity will emerge later or their learning style is kinetic, i.e., they need to see it, feel it, touch it, do it. I work with a lot of students who are very bright but they learn by doing. It must be tangible and real-world for them.
With a couple exceptions like engineering and software development, the job demand today is in the skilled trades. Sub-baccalaureate postsecondary education is the way to go for many; associate degrees and industry certifications. The key for everyone is life-long learning. There is no such thing as a "terminal" degree.
The last thing this country needs is "free college tuition," if by "college" you mean four-year baccalaureate institutions. The U.S. is overinvested in baccalaureate education.
It's high time that colleges be responsible for making college affordable, not the government. That's not to suggest that government funding has no role to play, but there has to be a roll-back in administrative bloat in higher education, which includes leadership in saying "no" to some added student services.
With a couple exceptions like engineering and software development, the job demand today is in the skilled trades. Sub-baccalaureate postsecondary education is the way to go for many; associate degrees and industry certifications. The key for everyone is life-long learning. There is no such thing as a "terminal" degree.
The last thing this country needs is "free college tuition," if by "college" you mean four-year baccalaureate institutions. The U.S. is overinvested in baccalaureate education.
It's high time that colleges be responsible for making college affordable, not the government. That's not to suggest that government funding has no role to play, but there has to be a roll-back in administrative bloat in higher education, which includes leadership in saying "no" to some added student services.
Yes absolutely. There are 3 campuses (Schuylkill, Hazleton, and Wilkes-Barre) within a 45-minute drive on I-81.
My point about Hazleton wasn't to say it's in great shape and such--I didn't explain clearly. The ones I identified in "bad shape" have been in a hole for a very long time with no hopes of returning. And not just a hole from enrollments either--facilities and staffing also play a role.
Hazleton's location near the intersection of 80/81 make it easy to get to, its facilities are mostly good, and it hasn't been in a hole for 15+ years like some of the others.
The days of smoking cloves, studying french lit and finding yourself in college are long gone. I told my kids you can do those things when you get home from work. Chose your major accordingly (aerospace and finance)
There is a huge time bomb heading towards higher education in general. Because of the global economic meltdown in 2008-2009 there was a significant drop is birth rate in this country. That "class" of kids will be hitting college age in about 4-5 years. Some universities have already begun preparing for a drop-off by bolstering foreign student acceptances (China especially). I would expect to see a great many small colleges/universities drop off the grid in the next decade.
As the parent of a high school senior going through this, I can confirm that you are correct. But why is that? Do they count on the rich folks to pay the full price so that schmucks like me can pay the reduced price? The price just seems made up because, as you say, seemingly no one pays that amount.
The state has to shut down a combination of PSU branch campuses and small state schools to reflect the continued decline in enrollment. Really tough because some small towns will die as a result. Focus funding on a smaller pool of schools and increase funding to keep kids in state by reducing tuition cost. Pa’s best hope for the future is to keep as much intellectual capital in state as possible. This facilitates new companies and employment. You won’t need more plumbers and electricians if the economy continues to decline.
Doesn't look like the south is any cheaper
Univ South Carolina- https://www.sc.edu/apply/cost_tuition_financial_aid/
In State:26,007
Out State: 46,896
Univ Georgia- https://www.admissions.uga.edu/afford/
In State: 27,450
Out State: 47,136
Alabama- https://financialaid.ua.edu/cost/
In State: 30,886
Out State: 51,236
Just my opinion, but I believe somewhere along the way going to college changed from "going to college to get a job", to "going to college for "fun" and to stay in school".
Just as an example. I graduated HS in 82 and wanted to attend college. My family was lower-middle class so going to college was a stretch for the family. My parents wanted to know things like "what was my major", "how many jobs could I get with my major", "what type of jobs I'd get with my major", and "once I graduated, would having a degree in my major help me land a good job". My parents were very influential in the major I chose. I ended with a degree in Finance and minor in Accounting. The only other choice they were going to approve was an engineering degree. My parents saw Finance, Accounting or Engineering as worthwhile investments to make so 4 years later I could be a wage earner.
Fast forward to the early 2000s. My sisters kid graduated HS and wanted to attend college. He was not sure of his major and my sister & her husband did not push him on a degree. He chose Psychology because it sounded fun, and "nothing else" appealed to him. During his 4 years of under-grad we told both my sister & my nephew that having a 4-year degree in Psychology was not going to get him a good paying job. With that degree he needed to go for a masters or even doctorate. A 4-year degree in Psychology was going to get him a $25,000/year social services job.......... Sure enough that happened. He ended up getting a social services job. Worked that a few years and decided to go back to college. This time he decided on "Film". We advised him that if he was going for "Film" he needed to go out to CA and go to a USC or UCLA that had Film programs that would set him up in the business. He stayed in PA and went another 4 years to a PA college for Film......... Again, that got him no real job. He went to college for 8 years. Got 2 majors. Had no real plans. Was not advised that those 4/8 years of college should be used to get a job. He is in big time student debt. And not working in either Psych or Film.
I believe this is the type of crap we need to stop.
Just as an example. I graduated HS in 82 and wanted to attend college. My family was lower-middle class so going to college was a stretch for the family. My parents wanted to know things like "what was my major", "how many jobs could I get with my major", "what type of jobs I'd get with my major", and "once I graduated, would having a degree in my major help me land a good job". My parents were very influential in the major I chose. I ended with a degree in Finance and minor in Accounting. The only other choice they were going to approve was an engineering degree. My parents saw Finance, Accounting or Engineering as worthwhile investments to make so 4 years later I could be a wage earner.
Fast forward to the early 2000s. My sisters kid graduated HS and wanted to attend college. He was not sure of his major and my sister & her husband did not push him on a degree. He chose Psychology because it sounded fun, and "nothing else" appealed to him. During his 4 years of under-grad we told both my sister & my nephew that having a 4-year degree in Psychology was not going to get him a good paying job. With that degree he needed to go for a masters or even doctorate. A 4-year degree in Psychology was going to get him a $25,000/year social services job.......... Sure enough that happened. He ended up getting a social services job. Worked that a few years and decided to go back to college. This time he decided on "Film". We advised him that if he was going for "Film" he needed to go out to CA and go to a USC or UCLA that had Film programs that would set him up in the business. He stayed in PA and went another 4 years to a PA college for Film......... Again, that got him no real job. He went to college for 8 years. Got 2 majors. Had no real plans. Was not advised that those 4/8 years of college should be used to get a job. He is in big time student debt. And not working in either Psych or Film.
I believe this is the type of crap we need to stop.
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I had a younger person tell me once that "College should be free, like it is in Europe". Whereupon I pointed out that it *is* free (aside from a few fees) in Germany if you go to the college prep school and then pass the Abitur entry exam, which are very competitive (there are a couple of alternative paths for late bloomers). In 2000, about 11% of all workers had completed an Abitur (up from 1.4% in 1970)--far from universal. But they also have a very strong vocational program.
A
anon_xdc8rmuek44eq
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Right - you can earn a living without having to have higher education in Germany. And their social safety net/government funded programs helps allow for that.
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