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Steep enrollment declines at PA State colleges

IMHO, most studies I've read state not much difference with STEM degrees and salaries. However, other degrees have a more demonstrable benefit from the IVY association.

There are incredible kids at PSAC schools, or faraway similar-type schools. The issue is access. Kids from Ivy’s and upper-tier private/publics have a well-worn path to the best internship interviews; which lead to the best seats out of undergrad; which leads to top-tier graduate options, or fast-track promotions, networks, etc. Every single Supreme Court justice went to Yale or Harvard Law as perhaps an extreme example. It’s simply harder to be found if you go to a school that isn’t actively recruited, let alone that anyone has heard of.
 
I know there are significant debt relief programs for students in ed and social welfare degree programs. Universities and government entities understand this dynamic and that we need good people in these fields.

There are, but not going very well...
You'd never be able to do an absolute quantitative analysis.... but I'd wager - when you are talking about the Yales and the Princetons - that the bulk of the "clout that opens doors" exists before the kid ever enters the campus.

ie: The kids who DO enter the campus are already heavily skewed towards those who have plenty of "door-opening clout" to begin with..... typically through their parents.


Whether some kid entering w/o the "clout", gains a lot of it by being at Princeton for 4 years? IDK..... I would have to reasonably assume there is an advantage there. But, I'd also wager that is the less significant parameter (relative to pre-existing generational "clout").

Along those lines:
The same concept is one of the big reasons PSU has tried to become a diploma mill for the (relatively) wealthy..... in addition to the obvious immediate benefits.

Probably some truth there. That said, I’ve seen both Ivy legacies and folks who cut their own path have the same success and access. I had a Yale grad student as an intern a few years ago and she was from a working class family. She was extremely impressive and got a lot of attention. Helps when you excel at what you do too.
 
I'd REALLY like to see those studies.
Google is your friend. I throw you a little bone, and you can do the rest of the work.

https://www.wsj.com/articles/do-eli...salaries-only-for-some-professions-1454295674. If you do NOT have a WSJ subscription the full article may not open.
This paraphrases some of it..
https://www.marketwatch.com/story/y...ake-a-lot-of-money-in-these-fields-2016-02-02

Forbes article with Malcolm Gladwell insight .....
https://www.forbes.com/sites/ricksm...-not-worth-the-cost-studies-say/#4c0a6b4326fe
 
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Military spending doesn't use "most of our budget." In 2016 it accounted for just 15%. Nearly 2/3rds (63%) was mandatory spending on Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, unemployment, retirement, etc.

2016 Federal Budget

Most of "discretionary spending"

Discretionary Spending
The discretionary budget for 2020 is $1.426 trillion. More than half goes toward military spending, including the Department of Veterans Affairs and other defense-related departments. The rest must pay for all other domestic programs. The largest of these programs are Health and Human Services, Education, and Housing and Urban Development.

There is an emergency fund of $200.1 billion held in reserve. Most of this fund goes to Overseas Contingency Operations to pay for wars or continuing military actions.

A growing portion of the discretionary budget is set aside for disaster relief such as hurricane and wildfire relief.

Military spending was included in the budget, under discretionary spending. The biggest expense for the military was the Department of Defense base budget, forecasted for $576 billion.

Overseas Contingency Operations are estimated to cost approximately $165 billion, which pays for the war on terror costs triggered by the 9/11 attacks. These include ongoing costs from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Military spending included $212.9 billion for defense-related departments. These include Homeland Security, the State Department, and Veterans Affairs. Included in the funding for defense-related spending is an emergency fund of about $26 billion.

All military costs combine to create a total forecast of U.S. spending on defense of $750 billion.
 
Most of "discretionary spending"

Discretionary Spending
The discretionary budget for 2020 is $1.426 trillion. More than half goes toward military spending, including the Department of Veterans Affairs and other defense-related departments. The rest must pay for all other domestic programs. The largest of these programs are Health and Human Services, Education, and Housing and Urban Development.

There is an emergency fund of $200.1 billion held in reserve. Most of this fund goes to Overseas Contingency Operations to pay for wars or continuing military actions.

A growing portion of the discretionary budget is set aside for disaster relief such as hurricane and wildfire relief.

Military spending was included in the budget, under discretionary spending. The biggest expense for the military was the Department of Defense base budget, forecasted for $576 billion.

Overseas Contingency Operations are estimated to cost approximately $165 billion, which pays for the war on terror costs triggered by the 9/11 attacks. These include ongoing costs from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Military spending included $212.9 billion for defense-related departments. These include Homeland Security, the State Department, and Veterans Affairs. Included in the funding for defense-related spending is an emergency fund of about $26 billion.

All military costs combine to create a total forecast of U.S. spending on defense of $750 billion.

That's a complete pivot from your original post, both in year and inference that most of federal spending was for the military. I cited the authoritative source, the CBO, from 2016 so we were using the same year. You used a private source dedicated to increased government spending and opposition to balanced budgets.

You want to find money in the federal budget to divert to education? Clean up the fraud/waste/abuse in the 62% of the budget I cited. The Government Accountability Office found $137 billion in improper payments in those in 2015.
 
How many of those jobs exist today? Or existed over the last 10 years when Pa made the drastic funding cuts? Those jobs today are done by people with college degrees.

Who is going to design and build those robots and machines? It won’t be people without college degrees...

No, it will be artificial intelligence embedded in robots whose tasks will be to build more advanced robots and the like.
 
Most of "discretionary spending"

Discretionary Spending
The discretionary budget for 2020 is $1.426 trillion. More than half goes toward military spending, including the Department of Veterans Affairs and other defense-related departments. The rest must pay for all other domestic programs. The largest of these programs are Health and Human Services, Education, and Housing and Urban Development.

There is an emergency fund of $200.1 billion held in reserve. Most of this fund goes to Overseas Contingency Operations to pay for wars or continuing military actions.

A growing portion of the discretionary budget is set aside for disaster relief such as hurricane and wildfire relief.

Military spending was included in the budget, under discretionary spending. The biggest expense for the military was the Department of Defense base budget, forecasted for $576 billion.

Overseas Contingency Operations are estimated to cost approximately $165 billion, which pays for the war on terror costs triggered by the 9/11 attacks. These include ongoing costs from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Military spending included $212.9 billion for defense-related departments. These include Homeland Security, the State Department, and Veterans Affairs. Included in the funding for defense-related spending is an emergency fund of about $26 billion.

All military costs combine to create a total forecast of U.S. spending on defense of $750 billion.
Well it’s kind of a moot point. A strong defense is an absolute necessity. There were whole lot of cold gutted sharks throughout history with whom peaceful means just weren’t a realistic option.
 
Most of "discretionary spending"

Discretionary Spending
The discretionary budget for 2020 is $1.426 trillion. More than half goes toward military spending, including the Department of Veterans Affairs and other defense-related departments. The rest must pay for all other domestic programs. The largest of these programs are Health and Human Services, Education, and Housing and Urban Development.

There is an emergency fund of $200.1 billion held in reserve. Most of this fund goes to Overseas Contingency Operations to pay for wars or continuing military actions.

A growing portion of the discretionary budget is set aside for disaster relief such as hurricane and wildfire relief.

Military spending was included in the budget, under discretionary spending. The biggest expense for the military was the Department of Defense base budget, forecasted for $576 billion.

Overseas Contingency Operations are estimated to cost approximately $165 billion, which pays for the war on terror costs triggered by the 9/11 attacks. These include ongoing costs from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Military spending included $212.9 billion for defense-related departments. These include Homeland Security, the State Department, and Veterans Affairs. Included in the funding for defense-related spending is an emergency fund of about $26 billion.

All military costs combine to create a total forecast of U.S. spending on defense of $750 billion.
The $750 billion the American taxpayers spend per year on defense isn't just for the United States. We protect the free world. We have over 20,000 soldiers in Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. for their protection. Nobody in the free world but us (and a tiny bit of spending by England) spends any money on weapons development. The countries in the rest of the free world spend peanuts on military because the American taxpayers spend to protect them. We ought to demand that the rest of the free world band together and provide every American taxpayer with free college and free health care in exchange for the hundreds of billions we are spending in their defense.
 
The $750 billion the American taxpayers spend per year on defense isn't just for the United States. We protect the free world. We have over 20,000 soldiers in Germany, Japan, South Korea, etc. for their protection. Nobody in the free world but us (and a tiny bit of spending by England) spends any money on weapons development. The countries in the rest of the free world spend peanuts on military because the American taxpayers spend to protect them. We ought to demand that the rest of the free world band together and provide every American taxpayer with free college and free health care in exchange for the hundreds of billions we are spending in their defense.

Or how about Apple and Amazon and Wal-Mart pay their gd taxes instead of leaching off the American taxpayer for this “protection” for their factories overseas. Or cut all the Beltway bandits sucking at the teat of the American government all the while crying “socialism”. Stop the grifting from every angle.
 
Or how about Apple and Amazon and Wal-Mart pay their gd taxes instead of leaching off the American taxpayer for this “protection” for their factories overseas. Or cut all the Beltway bandits sucking at the teat of the American government all the while crying “socialism”. Stop the grifting from every angle.


The following companies had effective tax rates of 0% or less (in 2018) according to the report:

  • Phillips-Van Heusen
  • Gannett
  • INTL FCStone
  • Murphy Oil
  • AECOM Technology
  • International Business Machines
  • CenturyLink
  • DowDuPont
  • Activision Blizzard
  • Avis Budget Group
  • Celanese
  • JetBlue Airways
  • Deere
  • First Data
  • Duke Energy
  • Pitney Bowes
  • Freeport-McMoRan Copper & Gold
  • WEC Energy Group
  • Levi Strauss
  • Brighthouse Financial
  • Aramark
  • Whirlpool
  • Prudential Financial
  • Trinity Industries
  • Ryder System
  • United States Steel
  • Eli Lilly
  • CMS Energy
  • Tapestry
  • EOG Resources
  • Beacon Roofing Supply
  • SPX
  • Realogy
  • Public Service Enterprise Group
  • Rockwell Collins
  • Goodyear Tire & Rubber
  • MDU Resources
  • FedEx
  • Williams
  • SpartanNash
  • Chevron
  • Delta Air Lines
  • Edison International
  • Penske Automotive Group
  • Principal Financial
  • PulteGroup
  • Air Products & Chemicals
  • Honeywell International
  • Netflix
  • General Motors
  • Tenet Healthcare
  • Xcel Energy
  • Halliburton
  • MGM Resorts International
  • Atmos Energy
  • Molson Coors
  • Nvidia
  • PPL
  • American Electric Power
  • Starbucks
  • Dominion Resources
  • Mohawk Industries
  • DTE Energy
  • Amazon
  • Andersons
  • Kinder Morgan
  • Owens Corning
  • Devon Energy
  • DXC Technology
  • FirstEnergy
  • Ameren
  • Hartford Financial Services
  • Alaska Air Group
  • Darden Restaurants
  • Ally Financial
  • Sanmina-SCI
  • Builders FirstSource
  • McKesson
  • Occidental Petroleum
  • UGI
  • Westrock
  • AK Steel Holding
  • ABM Industries
  • Cliffs Natural Resources
  • AMR
  • Chesapeake Energy
  • HD Supply
  • Navistar International
  • Pioneer Natural Resources
  • Salesforce.com
  • Visteon
 
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Most of "discretionary spending"

Discretionary Spending
The discretionary budget for 2020 is $1.426 trillion. More than half goes toward military spending, including the Department of Veterans Affairs and other defense-related departments. The rest must pay for all other domestic programs. The largest of these programs are Health and Human Services, Education, and Housing and Urban Development.

There is an emergency fund of $200.1 billion held in reserve. Most of this fund goes to Overseas Contingency Operations to pay for wars or continuing military actions.

A growing portion of the discretionary budget is set aside for disaster relief such as hurricane and wildfire relief.

Military spending was included in the budget, under discretionary spending. The biggest expense for the military was the Department of Defense base budget, forecasted for $576 billion.

Overseas Contingency Operations are estimated to cost approximately $165 billion, which pays for the war on terror costs triggered by the 9/11 attacks. These include ongoing costs from the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

Military spending included $212.9 billion for defense-related departments. These include Homeland Security, the State Department, and Veterans Affairs. Included in the funding for defense-related spending is an emergency fund of about $26 billion.

All military costs combine to create a total forecast of U.S. spending on defense of $750 billion.

Right. That money should go to edu so the profs can make more and the schools can expand.

Will millennials be able to make my fries hot?
 
Well it’s kind of a moot point. A strong defense is an absolute necessity. There were whole lot of cold gutted sharks throughout history with whom peaceful means just weren’t a realistic option.

45,000 people die in the US every year from lack of health care, which most other first world countries provide for their citizens. I think medicare for all is an absolute necessity.
 
45,000 people die in the US every year from lack of health care, which most other first world countries provide for their citizens. I think medicare for all is an absolute necessity.
Yeah and millions of people died in WWII and there would have been many millions more if we had not stopped them.
 
45,000 people die in the US every year from lack of health care, which most other first world countries provide for their citizens. I think medicare for all is an absolute necessity.

In first world countries people have skills and don't work at McDonald's as careers. Teachers don't get knocked out in first world countries. Our lower class are the exact opposite of people in first world countries.
 
And that has nothing to do with the current size of our defense budget.
Yes it most certainly does. The size of our defense budget equals deterrent and is one of the reasons nothing like this has happened minus some regional conflicts since.
 
PA needs to consolidate state universities and build out the trade schools. Too many kids go to college to learn how to party and not much else resulting in the trades and specialty technicians being severely understaffed nowadays. I run a large healthcare facility. Trying to find outside vendors and contractors to handle special projects and renovations is getting very difficult (especially electricians, hvac, gcs.) Even our freaking elevator company was understaffed which delayed an elevator repair.... it is bad out there. Heck, we can’t find enough nurses to fill the roster... but when I have administrative positions open there are plenty of young people available with generic bs degrees looking for a job. Parents and guidance counselors need to be truthful with our youth.
 
Tuition at all majors state universities in FL are all below $7000/yr. My tuition at Penn State from 1963-67 was $1,450/yr. costs for higher education skyrocketed after the government began to guarantee student loans. No state income tax here either.
How many students would Schools like Drexel, tuition $50,000+, attract if only $20,009 of the cost was underwritten at very low rates? Government is almost always the problem, not the solution.
 
Yes it most certainly does. The size of our defense budget equals deterrent and is one of the reasons nothing like this has happened minus some regional conflicts since.

I like to think of our national defense as an insurance policy. I don't like the monthly payments and I don't often need it, but when I do, I am glad it is there.
 
Or how about Apple and Amazon and Wal-Mart pay their gd taxes instead of leaching off the American taxpayer for this “protection” for their factories overseas. Or cut all the Beltway bandits sucking at the teat of the American government all the while crying “socialism”. Stop the grifting from every angle.
I never understood taxing corporations. If you make Apple pay more taxes won't they just pass the tax on to the consumer via higher prices for their products? If you make WalMart pay a billion more in taxes won't they simply raise the price of groceries and meds and clothing, etc. to pay the higher taxes? Companies can't print money. It seems to me that taxing corporations is just a backhanded way of raising taxes on ordinary people.

I'm not trying to be argumentative. You seems to be passionate in your position that corporations should pay more taxes so you can probably explain to me how this won't simply be a tax passed on to consumers.
 
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I like to think of our national defense as an insurance policy. I don't like the monthly payments and I don't often need it, but when I do, I am glad it is there.

If you couldn’t afford your family’s medical bills, would you think it wise to spend as much for your insurance policy as your seven highest-insured neighbors pay, combined?
 
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Yes it most certainly does. The size of our defense budget equals deterrent and is one of the reasons nothing like this has happened minus some regional conflicts since.

Our defense budget could be cut in half and we wouldn’t miss an operational beat. Our COMMITMENT to defense is the deterrent in the post-war world order (or at least it was until recently); the bloat and grift and leaching in the actual budget has nothing to do with how committed we are.
 
Let's bring "stoopid" full circle:


Don't personal income taxes just really serve as a tax on corporations?

If you have to pay more in taxes - don't you just have less money to buy an iPhone? And Apple makes less money?

Individuals, after all, can't just print money (not legally, anyway)


Isn't Personal Income Tax just a back-handed tariff on companies?


I get the feeling that there are a LOT of things that you "never understood" :)


(Sweet Idiotic Jeebzus on a stick. If "stupid" could be sold for $0.25 a pound, this thread would be richer than Jeff Bezos)


And MbS would hack it.

But be careful, there. LemonEars is Little Nooch's top advisor on tax policy..
 
Let's bring "stoopid" full circle:


Don't personal income taxes just really serve as a tax on corporations?

If you have to pay more in taxes - don't you just have less money to buy an iPhone? And Apple makes less money?

Individuals, after all, can't just print money (not legally, anyway)


Isn't Personal Income Tax just a back-handed tariff on companies?


I get the feeling that there are a LOT of things that you "never understood" :)


(Sweet Idiotic Jeebzus on a stick. If "stupid" could be sold for $0.25 a pound, this thread would be richer than Jeff Bezos)
Typical pompous stormingnorm post. I asked a question politely. Instead of a civil dialog you toss out juvenile insults. Stop wasting my time with your nonsense.
 
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All taxes are basically a redistribution of income. If my income is high I am more likely to pay a higher amount of taxes (but not always), and if my income is low I pay less in taxes and receive more entitlements or other benefits relative to what I paid in taxes. Both the high and low tax payers receive the same amount of defense assistance. I’m not saying this is wrong, the free cheese should go to the hungry and it should be paid for by the wealthy. Medical insurance works the same way. The healthy, who rarely file a claim, pay for the sick. There I did it, violated my own wish that these topics be relegated to the test board. I feel so dirty.
 
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No doubt PA could do a better job of providing funding for its public universities. On the other hand, the universities need to take a look in the mirror and determine how to cut costs. Do the schools really need all these fancy amenities? Do they really need all those administrators?

Also it would help if the federal government got out of the student loan business and changed the law to allow student loan debt to be dischargeable in bankruptcy.
Another approach suggested was to have colleges co-sign the student loans. They would have a vested interest in the cost and effectiveness of their product.
 
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I think that's the problem though, while less expensive than Main, they're still far more expensive than the PA state schools and especially community colleges.
I don't think they are that less expensive. Pricing should be based on a persons major. Social Service Education, Science, Medical, Engineer courses of study should be priced differently. Base the pricing on the starting wage of each career out of the gate. Another idea would be to get rid of the money grab fluff courses.
 
Can you repair yours? Call me $80/hr. plus part mark up. Then call me to take care of your dishwasher/refrigerator/dryer/furnace/toilet/sink/garbage disposal. Wait,
got to go, another call.
I’m not calling you. I don’t need you and your insane price for work that an average person can do.
 
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